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On August 20 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:47 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:37 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:35 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? No. I work in finance and often have to travel for work. Part of being a responsible professional is planning ahead of time and figuring out if you need a visa to go somewhere. Players dropping out of tournaments because they forgot to apply for a visa undermines e-sports and is bad for the tournaments. How did applying for Visa’s go when you started your business at age 17 and you were traveling without your parents? On August 20 2013 00:33 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:20 stratmatt wrote:
Apparently a lot of TLers think its ok that the same players not only keep taking up tournament spots in the NA region, but continue to forfeit their tournament spots due to a lack of planning. Its not 'punishment' to suspend someone for a season due to forfeiting, its enforcing the intergrity of the tournament. No, its mostly them objecting to punishing 17 year old kid for making an honest mistake when coming abroad. He does not have the assistance of an EG, TL or Kespa team to deal with these matters for him. You seem to think that punishment would somehow make Jim better or avoid these issues in the future, which is not the case. Blizzard and WCS have no control over the different visa requirements in each region or how they change based on any number of reasons. Punishing players for failing to be approved for a Visa will only harm the player and will not encourage the integrity you think it will. I think you're wrong. If he is a professional gamer, then acquiring a visa to go compete in the biggest tournament he's ever played in should be kind of a priority. There have been so many spots forfeited to visa issues lately that I think something needs to be done about it. Something was done. He forfeited his spot, he can’t play and doesn’t get prize money or WCS points. He will be able to play in the US region and finals for next season, because he has been approved for a visa in the US and is already qualified. The problem has been solved. I don't see how age has anything to do with it. He's a professional and is competing against people of all ages - thus he should be held accountable to the same standards as everyone else. And no, something was not done. Not being able to play or receive prize money is just a consequence of him failing to prepare for a tournament. When you say problem solved, you are addressing the problem of Jim being able to compete, not the problem of gamers consistently failing to plan properly for tournaments by getting Visas ahead of time. I may or may not have to travel to South America for business next month. I don't know yet, but I'm getting my Visas now just in case. It's called planning ahead. So when you applied for your first visa, did you prepare all your own documents and research the laws on how to apply for each country? Were you traveling to countries that were not part of the Visa Waiver program? Did anyone at your firm assist you in getting the visa? Because these are all things Jim had to do on his own. He doesn’t have a firm assisting him. He also doesn’t have the ability to say “I am on a business meeting,” since he doesn’t have an employer that is sending him over seas. I know it might be hard to believe, but it is harder for him to get a visa than it is for you.
i heard calling and asking is hard to do, cause all your questions above are all solved by calling and asking.
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On August 20 2013 01:11 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:49 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:46 Passion wrote:On August 20 2013 00:35 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? No. I work in finance and often have to travel for work. Part of being a responsible professional is planning ahead of time and figuring out if you need a visa to go somewhere. Players dropping out of tournaments because they forgot to apply for a visa undermines e-sports and is bad for the tournaments. In certain cases, you need to have your ticket before you can get your visa (just been through this). So, awesome you never had any problems, but let's not falsely accuse Jim of anything. I like Jim. The only thing I'm accusing him of is not planning in advance. Yes 17 year olds make mistakes. But that doesn't mean that anyone should be able to repetedly forfeit tournament spots because of their own lack of forward thinking. So you buy your ticket in advance, and get your Visa. And if you don't qualify or whatever, you cancel your ticket and pay the cancellation fee. Isn't this better than not going to the WCS finals? It does not work that way for non-first-world-countries. You need a reason for applying for a Visa, and "I might attend this event" is not enough. He is also not backed by a company (like you are) until he qualifies. So he cannot get the Visa before he qualifies.
blizzard could do a letter saying that jim is invited to go, but if jim doesnt qualify he can just not use the visa. a waste of money, but u gotta do what u gotta do.
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On August 20 2013 01:26 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 01:11 phagga wrote:On August 20 2013 00:49 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:46 Passion wrote:On August 20 2013 00:35 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? No. I work in finance and often have to travel for work. Part of being a responsible professional is planning ahead of time and figuring out if you need a visa to go somewhere. Players dropping out of tournaments because they forgot to apply for a visa undermines e-sports and is bad for the tournaments. In certain cases, you need to have your ticket before you can get your visa (just been through this). So, awesome you never had any problems, but let's not falsely accuse Jim of anything. I like Jim. The only thing I'm accusing him of is not planning in advance. Yes 17 year olds make mistakes. But that doesn't mean that anyone should be able to repetedly forfeit tournament spots because of their own lack of forward thinking. So you buy your ticket in advance, and get your Visa. And if you don't qualify or whatever, you cancel your ticket and pay the cancellation fee. Isn't this better than not going to the WCS finals? It does not work that way for non-first-world-countries. You need a reason for applying for a Visa, and "I might attend this event" is not enough. He is also not backed by a company (like you are) until he qualifies. So he cannot get the Visa before he qualifies. blizzard could do a letter saying that jim is invited to go, but if jim doesnt qualify he can just not use the visa. a waste of money, but u gotta do what u gotta do.
Check the OP, guys. The problem has been revealed.
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On August 20 2013 01:13 RaZorwire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:51 stratmatt wrote:On August 20 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:20 stratmatt wrote:
Apparently a lot of TLers think its ok that the same players not only keep taking up tournament spots in the NA region, but continue to forfeit their tournament spots due to a lack of planning. Its not 'punishment' to suspend someone for a season due to forfeiting, its enforcing the intergrity of the tournament. No, its mostly them objecting to punishing 17 year old kid for making an honest mistake when coming abroad. He does not have the assistance of an EG, TL or Kespa team to deal with these matters for him. You seem to think that punishment would somehow make Jim better or avoid these issues in the future, which is not the case. Blizzard and WCS have no control over the different visa requirements in each region or how they change based on any number of reasons. Punishing players for failing to be approved for a Visa will only harm the player and will not encourage the integrity you think it will. The tournament loses integrity every time a player forfeits. Simple as that. I really don't think this is as big as you're trying to make it sound. This is awful for Jim, and it sucks for all his fans who wanted to see him play. In every other aspect, it's a minor inconvenience. The next best guy gets the spot. It's not a big deal, really, and it doesn't threaten the integrity of the tournament nearly as much as banning a top player from competing would.
but it could not be the next best guy. alive is next to go, but who's to say that none of the players that jim beat before he beat alive couldn't have beaten alive for the spot?
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I wonder why blizzard (or other tournament host) doesn't formally invite everyone who finishes on top 32 if qualify is top 16 and then everyone can apply for visa in a timely manner, if they deem there chances to advance is high enough. This would also not create a huge problem for the next guy who needs a visa fast due to the fact that they got a late invite ?
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On August 20 2013 01:23 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:47 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:37 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:35 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? No. I work in finance and often have to travel for work. Part of being a responsible professional is planning ahead of time and figuring out if you need a visa to go somewhere. Players dropping out of tournaments because they forgot to apply for a visa undermines e-sports and is bad for the tournaments. How did applying for Visa’s go when you started your business at age 17 and you were traveling without your parents? On August 20 2013 00:33 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:20 stratmatt wrote:
Apparently a lot of TLers think its ok that the same players not only keep taking up tournament spots in the NA region, but continue to forfeit their tournament spots due to a lack of planning. Its not 'punishment' to suspend someone for a season due to forfeiting, its enforcing the intergrity of the tournament. No, its mostly them objecting to punishing 17 year old kid for making an honest mistake when coming abroad. He does not have the assistance of an EG, TL or Kespa team to deal with these matters for him. You seem to think that punishment would somehow make Jim better or avoid these issues in the future, which is not the case. Blizzard and WCS have no control over the different visa requirements in each region or how they change based on any number of reasons. Punishing players for failing to be approved for a Visa will only harm the player and will not encourage the integrity you think it will. I think you're wrong. If he is a professional gamer, then acquiring a visa to go compete in the biggest tournament he's ever played in should be kind of a priority. There have been so many spots forfeited to visa issues lately that I think something needs to be done about it. Something was done. He forfeited his spot, he can’t play and doesn’t get prize money or WCS points. He will be able to play in the US region and finals for next season, because he has been approved for a visa in the US and is already qualified. The problem has been solved. I don't see how age has anything to do with it. He's a professional and is competing against people of all ages - thus he should be held accountable to the same standards as everyone else. And no, something was not done. Not being able to play or receive prize money is just a consequence of him failing to prepare for a tournament. When you say problem solved, you are addressing the problem of Jim being able to compete, not the problem of gamers consistently failing to plan properly for tournaments by getting Visas ahead of time. I may or may not have to travel to South America for business next month. I don't know yet, but I'm getting my Visas now just in case. It's called planning ahead. So when you applied for your first visa, did you prepare all your own documents and research the laws on how to apply for each country? Were you traveling to countries that were not part of the Visa Waiver program? Did anyone at your firm assist you in getting the visa? Because these are all things Jim had to do on his own. He doesn’t have a firm assisting him. He also doesn’t have the ability to say “I am on a business meeting,” since he doesn’t have an employer that is sending him over seas. I know it might be hard to believe, but it is harder for him to get a visa than it is for you. i heard calling and asking is hard to do, cause all your questions above are all solved by calling and asking.
Its the German Embassy, not Verizon. They might not be huge into answering questions for people applying for Visa's over the phone. They had to wait several hours just to get an appointment with the guy at the US Embassy. Also, he would need to call the one in China, because the one in the US isn't likely to have someone who speaks Chinese. Unless Jim speaks German.
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On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit.
Alive (the person who lost to jim) got the spot. You should read posts before you rage all over a thread.
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Wow, Jim really had some bad luck there. But it can't really be helped I guess.
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On August 20 2013 01:12 EFBarbarossa wrote:
This visa bullshit has to go! Wherever you were born it was by chance.
Can't see any reason why people shouldn't be allowed to move freely.
If, at all, there could be some criteria if it comes to settling down - imo: even that is unnecessary.
Sorry, but this is complete bullshit. Think of the consequences, please.
@Topic
You cannot blame Jim. His spot goes to the next competitor, wheres the problem??
The tournament loosing integrity? WHAT??
The REALLY interesting thing is:
So many people on TL raged against US politics, government and visa office as jims visa to USA was denied.
Germany denied, too, but there is no hate and no blaming geman politics, office and government.
This is how it works...
BTW: We need a region lock AND a WCS China/SEA, but not determind by passport (nationality) but by resident. You play where you live (since at least 6 months, or so...)
cu
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On August 20 2013 00:45 Nyvis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:20 stratmatt wrote:
Apparently a lot of TLers think its ok that the same players not only keep taking up tournament spots in the NA region, but continue to forfeit their tournament spots due to a lack of planning. Its not 'punishment' to suspend someone for a season due to forfeiting, its enforcing the intergrity of the tournament. It's not lack of planning, it's your country refusing to let him enter. Blame on your government, not on the poor guy. You can't start trying to get visa before you know you'll get to the event, or before the date is anounced. Sadly, the time frame to be sure you get a visa is longer than what you have, between the moment you know you'll go to the tournament and the tournament itself. Even as an European, getting a (non tourism) American visa is really long. What you are basically suggesting is excluding Chinese players from the WCS system. Since policies between China and the US are not likely to change, what we really need is a WCS China. Maybe with a small number of players to the world finals, maybe not since it may attract Koreans (probably less lag on the online part). That would also help sc2 grow in China. Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, There is no region lock question to be raised in this thread. Chinese play in NA because they don't have a WCS region. Well prepared Korean players have no problem getting their visas, because they are backed by American organisations and are from a country facilitating the process. (violet is an exception, when for the Chinese, it's pretty much the norm).
From EU I think you can go to US without VISA and stay there for 9 or 10 days? ofc, you are not allowed to earn money I think :D
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On August 20 2013 01:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 01:23 zev318 wrote:On August 20 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:47 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:37 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:35 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? No. I work in finance and often have to travel for work. Part of being a responsible professional is planning ahead of time and figuring out if you need a visa to go somewhere. Players dropping out of tournaments because they forgot to apply for a visa undermines e-sports and is bad for the tournaments. How did applying for Visa’s go when you started your business at age 17 and you were traveling without your parents? On August 20 2013 00:33 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:20 stratmatt wrote:
Apparently a lot of TLers think its ok that the same players not only keep taking up tournament spots in the NA region, but continue to forfeit their tournament spots due to a lack of planning. Its not 'punishment' to suspend someone for a season due to forfeiting, its enforcing the intergrity of the tournament. No, its mostly them objecting to punishing 17 year old kid for making an honest mistake when coming abroad. He does not have the assistance of an EG, TL or Kespa team to deal with these matters for him. You seem to think that punishment would somehow make Jim better or avoid these issues in the future, which is not the case. Blizzard and WCS have no control over the different visa requirements in each region or how they change based on any number of reasons. Punishing players for failing to be approved for a Visa will only harm the player and will not encourage the integrity you think it will. I think you're wrong. If he is a professional gamer, then acquiring a visa to go compete in the biggest tournament he's ever played in should be kind of a priority. There have been so many spots forfeited to visa issues lately that I think something needs to be done about it. Something was done. He forfeited his spot, he can’t play and doesn’t get prize money or WCS points. He will be able to play in the US region and finals for next season, because he has been approved for a visa in the US and is already qualified. The problem has been solved. I don't see how age has anything to do with it. He's a professional and is competing against people of all ages - thus he should be held accountable to the same standards as everyone else. And no, something was not done. Not being able to play or receive prize money is just a consequence of him failing to prepare for a tournament. When you say problem solved, you are addressing the problem of Jim being able to compete, not the problem of gamers consistently failing to plan properly for tournaments by getting Visas ahead of time. I may or may not have to travel to South America for business next month. I don't know yet, but I'm getting my Visas now just in case. It's called planning ahead. So when you applied for your first visa, did you prepare all your own documents and research the laws on how to apply for each country? Were you traveling to countries that were not part of the Visa Waiver program? Did anyone at your firm assist you in getting the visa? Because these are all things Jim had to do on his own. He doesn’t have a firm assisting him. He also doesn’t have the ability to say “I am on a business meeting,” since he doesn’t have an employer that is sending him over seas. I know it might be hard to believe, but it is harder for him to get a visa than it is for you. i heard calling and asking is hard to do, cause all your questions above are all solved by calling and asking. Its the German Embassy, not Verizon. They might not be huge into answering questions for people applying for Visa's over the phone. They had to wait several hours just to get an appointment with the guy at the US Embassy. Also, he would need to call the one in China, because the one in the US isn't likely to have someone who speaks Chinese. Unless Jim speaks German.
getting an appointment is a lot different than asking what the requirements are for applying for a visa.
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Blizzard should have set-up rules and guidelines, anticipating players requiring Visa to attend WCS that is outside of his/her residence.
Had we known Jim's inability to go, he should not have been allowed to participate in NA Primer final. Let's face it, most gov. isn't too eager to approve visa applications from China. If you and your gov. can't figure that out, don't waste other people's time and ruin other people's opportunity.
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While this is rather unfortunate for Jim, I hope this incident will serve as a reminder to every Chinese gamer and their managers to not take the visa issue lightly. Planning to obtain a visa within less than two weeks is just calling for catastrophe...
edit:
On August 20 2013 01:38 twndomn wrote:
Blizzard should have set-up rules and guidelines, anticipating players requiring Visa to attend WCS that is outside of his/her residence.
Had we known Jim's inability to go, he should not have been allowed to participate in NA Primer final. Let's face it, most gov. isn't too eager to approve visa applications from China. If you and your gov. can't figure that out, don't waste other people's time and ruin other people's opportunity.
What the fuck. Don't put Germany on the same level with countries who happily decline visas out of arbitrary reasons.
Germany did not decline Jim's visa. Jim (and his manager) failed to provide the necessary documents in order to apply for the visa in the first place...
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On August 20 2013 01:38 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 01:31 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 01:23 zev318 wrote:On August 20 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:47 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:37 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:35 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? No. I work in finance and often have to travel for work. Part of being a responsible professional is planning ahead of time and figuring out if you need a visa to go somewhere. Players dropping out of tournaments because they forgot to apply for a visa undermines e-sports and is bad for the tournaments. How did applying for Visa’s go when you started your business at age 17 and you were traveling without your parents? On August 20 2013 00:33 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:20 stratmatt wrote:
Apparently a lot of TLers think its ok that the same players not only keep taking up tournament spots in the NA region, but continue to forfeit their tournament spots due to a lack of planning. Its not 'punishment' to suspend someone for a season due to forfeiting, its enforcing the intergrity of the tournament. No, its mostly them objecting to punishing 17 year old kid for making an honest mistake when coming abroad. He does not have the assistance of an EG, TL or Kespa team to deal with these matters for him. You seem to think that punishment would somehow make Jim better or avoid these issues in the future, which is not the case. Blizzard and WCS have no control over the different visa requirements in each region or how they change based on any number of reasons. Punishing players for failing to be approved for a Visa will only harm the player and will not encourage the integrity you think it will. I think you're wrong. If he is a professional gamer, then acquiring a visa to go compete in the biggest tournament he's ever played in should be kind of a priority. There have been so many spots forfeited to visa issues lately that I think something needs to be done about it. Something was done. He forfeited his spot, he can’t play and doesn’t get prize money or WCS points. He will be able to play in the US region and finals for next season, because he has been approved for a visa in the US and is already qualified. The problem has been solved. I don't see how age has anything to do with it. He's a professional and is competing against people of all ages - thus he should be held accountable to the same standards as everyone else. And no, something was not done. Not being able to play or receive prize money is just a consequence of him failing to prepare for a tournament. When you say problem solved, you are addressing the problem of Jim being able to compete, not the problem of gamers consistently failing to plan properly for tournaments by getting Visas ahead of time. I may or may not have to travel to South America for business next month. I don't know yet, but I'm getting my Visas now just in case. It's called planning ahead. So when you applied for your first visa, did you prepare all your own documents and research the laws on how to apply for each country? Were you traveling to countries that were not part of the Visa Waiver program? Did anyone at your firm assist you in getting the visa? Because these are all things Jim had to do on his own. He doesn’t have a firm assisting him. He also doesn’t have the ability to say “I am on a business meeting,” since he doesn’t have an employer that is sending him over seas. I know it might be hard to believe, but it is harder for him to get a visa than it is for you. i heard calling and asking is hard to do, cause all your questions above are all solved by calling and asking. Its the German Embassy, not Verizon. They might not be huge into answering questions for people applying for Visa's over the phone. They had to wait several hours just to get an appointment with the guy at the US Embassy. Also, he would need to call the one in China, because the one in the US isn't likely to have someone who speaks Chinese. Unless Jim speaks German. getting an appointment is a lot different than asking what the requirements are for applying for a visa.
Once again, they are not Verizon. Embassys have shit to do, they don't just sit around all day waiting for people to call them asking questions about Visas. And they may have asked about what was needed, but the form required for minors to visit the country did not come up during the discussion. The guy is 17 years old, give him a break.
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On August 20 2013 01:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 01:38 zev318 wrote:On August 20 2013 01:31 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 01:23 zev318 wrote:On August 20 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:47 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:37 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:35 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? No. I work in finance and often have to travel for work. Part of being a responsible professional is planning ahead of time and figuring out if you need a visa to go somewhere. Players dropping out of tournaments because they forgot to apply for a visa undermines e-sports and is bad for the tournaments. How did applying for Visa’s go when you started your business at age 17 and you were traveling without your parents? On August 20 2013 00:33 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:20 stratmatt wrote:
Apparently a lot of TLers think its ok that the same players not only keep taking up tournament spots in the NA region, but continue to forfeit their tournament spots due to a lack of planning. Its not 'punishment' to suspend someone for a season due to forfeiting, its enforcing the intergrity of the tournament. No, its mostly them objecting to punishing 17 year old kid for making an honest mistake when coming abroad. He does not have the assistance of an EG, TL or Kespa team to deal with these matters for him. You seem to think that punishment would somehow make Jim better or avoid these issues in the future, which is not the case. Blizzard and WCS have no control over the different visa requirements in each region or how they change based on any number of reasons. Punishing players for failing to be approved for a Visa will only harm the player and will not encourage the integrity you think it will. I think you're wrong. If he is a professional gamer, then acquiring a visa to go compete in the biggest tournament he's ever played in should be kind of a priority. There have been so many spots forfeited to visa issues lately that I think something needs to be done about it. Something was done. He forfeited his spot, he can’t play and doesn’t get prize money or WCS points. He will be able to play in the US region and finals for next season, because he has been approved for a visa in the US and is already qualified. The problem has been solved. I don't see how age has anything to do with it. He's a professional and is competing against people of all ages - thus he should be held accountable to the same standards as everyone else. And no, something was not done. Not being able to play or receive prize money is just a consequence of him failing to prepare for a tournament. When you say problem solved, you are addressing the problem of Jim being able to compete, not the problem of gamers consistently failing to plan properly for tournaments by getting Visas ahead of time. I may or may not have to travel to South America for business next month. I don't know yet, but I'm getting my Visas now just in case. It's called planning ahead. So when you applied for your first visa, did you prepare all your own documents and research the laws on how to apply for each country? Were you traveling to countries that were not part of the Visa Waiver program? Did anyone at your firm assist you in getting the visa? Because these are all things Jim had to do on his own. He doesn’t have a firm assisting him. He also doesn’t have the ability to say “I am on a business meeting,” since he doesn’t have an employer that is sending him over seas. I know it might be hard to believe, but it is harder for him to get a visa than it is for you. i heard calling and asking is hard to do, cause all your questions above are all solved by calling and asking. Its the German Embassy, not Verizon. They might not be huge into answering questions for people applying for Visa's over the phone. They had to wait several hours just to get an appointment with the guy at the US Embassy. Also, he would need to call the one in China, because the one in the US isn't likely to have someone who speaks Chinese. Unless Jim speaks German. getting an appointment is a lot different than asking what the requirements are for applying for a visa. Once again, they are not Verizon. Embassys have shit to do, they don't just sit around all day waiting for people to call them asking questions about Visas. And they may have asked about what was needed, but the form required for minors to visit the country did not come up during the discussion. The guy is 17 years old, give him a break.
they are there to answer questions, this is the gateway for people from other countries to try and get into germany and you think they wont answer questions? i dunno about china but i doubt a german embassy in china would be operated much different than one in canada.
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Did Jim go to WCS AM with a US temp work visa?
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On August 20 2013 01:53 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 01:44 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 01:38 zev318 wrote:On August 20 2013 01:31 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 01:23 zev318 wrote:On August 20 2013 00:54 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:47 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:37 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:35 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? No. I work in finance and often have to travel for work. Part of being a responsible professional is planning ahead of time and figuring out if you need a visa to go somewhere. Players dropping out of tournaments because they forgot to apply for a visa undermines e-sports and is bad for the tournaments. How did applying for Visa’s go when you started your business at age 17 and you were traveling without your parents? On August 20 2013 00:33 DinoMight wrote:On August 20 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
No, its mostly them objecting to punishing 17 year old kid for making an honest mistake when coming abroad. He does not have the assistance of an EG, TL or Kespa team to deal with these matters for him. You seem to think that punishment would somehow make Jim better or avoid these issues in the future, which is not the case. Blizzard and WCS have no control over the different visa requirements in each region or how they change based on any number of reasons. Punishing players for failing to be approved for a Visa will only harm the player and will not encourage the integrity you think it will. I think you're wrong. If he is a professional gamer, then acquiring a visa to go compete in the biggest tournament he's ever played in should be kind of a priority. There have been so many spots forfeited to visa issues lately that I think something needs to be done about it. Something was done. He forfeited his spot, he can’t play and doesn’t get prize money or WCS points. He will be able to play in the US region and finals for next season, because he has been approved for a visa in the US and is already qualified. The problem has been solved. I don't see how age has anything to do with it. He's a professional and is competing against people of all ages - thus he should be held accountable to the same standards as everyone else. And no, something was not done. Not being able to play or receive prize money is just a consequence of him failing to prepare for a tournament. When you say problem solved, you are addressing the problem of Jim being able to compete, not the problem of gamers consistently failing to plan properly for tournaments by getting Visas ahead of time. I may or may not have to travel to South America for business next month. I don't know yet, but I'm getting my Visas now just in case. It's called planning ahead. So when you applied for your first visa, did you prepare all your own documents and research the laws on how to apply for each country? Were you traveling to countries that were not part of the Visa Waiver program? Did anyone at your firm assist you in getting the visa? Because these are all things Jim had to do on his own. He doesn’t have a firm assisting him. He also doesn’t have the ability to say “I am on a business meeting,” since he doesn’t have an employer that is sending him over seas. I know it might be hard to believe, but it is harder for him to get a visa than it is for you. i heard calling and asking is hard to do, cause all your questions above are all solved by calling and asking. Its the German Embassy, not Verizon. They might not be huge into answering questions for people applying for Visa's over the phone. They had to wait several hours just to get an appointment with the guy at the US Embassy. Also, he would need to call the one in China, because the one in the US isn't likely to have someone who speaks Chinese. Unless Jim speaks German. getting an appointment is a lot different than asking what the requirements are for applying for a visa. Once again, they are not Verizon. Embassys have shit to do, they don't just sit around all day waiting for people to call them asking questions about Visas. And they may have asked about what was needed, but the form required for minors to visit the country did not come up during the discussion. The guy is 17 years old, give him a break. they are there to answer questions, this is the gateway for people from other countries to try and get into germany and you think they wont answer questions? i dunno about china but i doubt a german embassy in china would be operated much different than one in canada.
So the Embassy answers question, great. What does this prove again? No one is saying that there is no way that Jim could have known he needed the form. No one is making the argument that it is anyones fault but his. The point people are making is that its not something he should be punished for. It was a mistake and those happen from time to time. Are we really going to jump up and down on him and say "You should have known better, tried hard and planned better."? Is that a thing we really need to do?
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This seems to me that IG has a horrendous track record of planning ahead. Didn't they fuck themselves with the American visas too?
When I was getting ready to go to Korea, I researched ahead and figured out everything I would need to get before I ever even set foot in a Korean embassy asking for a work visa. Apparently, that makes me twice the planner Jim and his coach are.
I mean, temporary work visas aren't that hard to get if you follow the rules. The coach even mentioned on weibo how ESL had a way to get the visa within 3 work days.
EDIT: And yeah, this is getting to the point where players should be punished if they go through a tournament and are not able to research ahead and gather the needed visa paperwork as soon as the Ro32 starts. It's not like Jim didn't fucking know he'd need a visa to go to Cologne.
Just put in the contracts "All players who enter the Ro32 must make themselves available for the Finals to be held in [place]. If the player qualifies for but is not able to attend said Finals, then the player therefore forfeits his eligibility to compete in [next tournament's name, say TSL5]. If the Finals venue is changed unexpectedly, and all reasonable steps are taken to attend but the player must still miss the Finals, then his eligibility is still intact and his position in said tournament will be awarded to the next highest place competitor."
This isn't some "Oh woah, he could have never expected this!" situation. I guarantee you that if you go to the German consulate in China (or it's equivalent. Fuck, google that shit if you have to), all of this information is online. Hell, common sense tells you that anyone under the age of 18 needs their parent's permission before they GET A GOVERNMENT'S PERMISSION TO ENTER A FOREIGN COUNTRY.
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These visa issues really hurt. It sucks to see great players like Jim and Violet unable to compete because of this. I really hope Blizzard puts in a lot of work to make these things easier for the players. Good luck to Alive in the group and good luck to Jim. I hope to see him again in the future. He showed some great games.
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That is great for Scarlett. Alive has been rather bad lately, at least compared to what he was when he was not on EG.
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EPT
