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On August 20 2013 18:32 SorrowShine wrote:
Somewhere I met this kind of buracracy before.. hmm wait a sec... It was in russia. Same bullshit. To get smth done you always need to bribe someone... Pity.
And as a specialist in getting visas to anywhere because i am coming from a 3rd world country.
You always need:
Passport
Financial statement (that you can support yourself)
Invitation. Usually it has to be some official paper. Private invitaition usually doesn't cut it.
Filled out forms. (here depends on the embassy. Some countries are very flexible and helpful. Some won't even let you in into the building if smth is filled out wrong.)
Prove of paid fee for visa application. (some embassy accepts money at the counter.)
Some kind of Travel arrangements (worst cas scenario: Flight ticket (not reservation) und Hotel booking confirmed)
I think thats it
Most important where the embassy is located: german embassy in US and german embassy in China is 2 different stories.
Btw. at some embassies you need to make a reservation for appointment. And waiting time is months.
So good luck all you people with nice passports. You don't know how lucky you are. I have a german passport now and sooooooo happy.
Seems you are the one who really understand how hard for iG to work out with these players visa. And i would like to say, Jim and Macsed showing in WCS AM RO 16 was already an miracle, they got their visa within a week.
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On August 20 2013 13:36 Eufouria wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 13:29 Bigtony wrote:On August 20 2013 11:11 havok55 wrote:On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, Except I will not watch a bunch of NA players derping (not that there aren't good players from the Americas, just not enough). I tune in because I want to watch quality games with top level play. I don't give a damn what country the players are from. SC2 is not a national sport. There is no Team USA. It's not us vs them, its individual vs individual. The players in the WCS AM season 2 finals were perfect. Polt, Scarlett, Jaedong, Jim... that's the kind of hype that grows the scene. Heck I would like to see Europeans in our WCS too. Make WCS AM into a mini-WCS season finals, with players from around the world. And you really dont understand SC2 community, do you? Most of us will cheer for anyone who can give us great games. Look how much hype Jim got recently. Why should NA players get more attention just because they're from NA? They have to earn it. If you dont want to watch NA players 'derping' you don't have to. Just watch WCS eu/korea. Also, after a season or two they wouldn't be derping anymore. A few koreans would see that it was worth it to live in America. They could come for school or whatever and play WCS at the same time. Would raise the level of play for everyone. Instead Korea just takes all the money. GG. The American players aren't going to get better by only playing worse players. And if they locked the regions they should give 90% of the prize pool from the WCS US to the Korean one because there's no way Larry the grandmaster protoss on the US server deserves more money than the practice partner on a proleague team who can't get into the challenger league because there are so many great Korean players. It's irrelevent anyway, this is about his visa for the grand finals, so region locking isn't going to prevent Chinese players having to travel ot wherever the final is held.
A region lock wouldn't prevent Chinese players? I didn't know there was a wcs china?
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And all of this could have been avoided if people could only compete in their appropriate regions.
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Rough year for Jim with the visa problems. Maybe next year when he is 18 and a little wiser he won't have such a hard time.
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On August 20 2013 18:31 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 17:54 phagga wrote:On August 20 2013 17:38 TylerThaCreator wrote:On August 20 2013 17:32 [KGS]Slacker wrote:
Why not require players to have relevant visas for both finals (regional and world) before the season even begins? Or as fast as possible after qualifying for premier league. It's not that easy to just apply for a visa, there are fees associated with it and you need to have a legit reason to be applying for the visa before you get it - you can't just apply for one because you "might" qualify, you need to have actual proof of qualification first. And that's even if the visa office approves of some random videogame's tournament, This, plus chances are that you have to show the flight ticket before they consider making a visa so you can prove that you can actually afford the flight. This means in the worst case that jim has to spend money for 3 flights per year (season finals) that he won't need if he does not qualify, and I'm pretty sure it's not cheap to fly from china to europe / us. Okay, I am hearing this from multiple sides now (plane ticket being a requirement), but are there any sources? I am not doubting this, but I could only find a proof of having enough money as requirement, it did not state that it has to be in form of a plane ticket.
When the family of my wife aplied for VISA (they live in Moldova and wanted to visit us in Switzerland), they needed to provide airplaine tickets with the application. Additionally I needed to provide a notarially certified document in which I took financial responsibilites to up to 10'000 swiss francs per person. Luckily they also got romanian passports, and now we no longer need to do this (Schengen rules).
I don't know how it works from China to Germany, but I could imagine that it is quite similar.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 18:53 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 13:36 Eufouria wrote:On August 20 2013 13:29 Bigtony wrote:On August 20 2013 11:11 havok55 wrote:On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, Except I will not watch a bunch of NA players derping (not that there aren't good players from the Americas, just not enough). I tune in because I want to watch quality games with top level play. I don't give a damn what country the players are from. SC2 is not a national sport. There is no Team USA. It's not us vs them, its individual vs individual. The players in the WCS AM season 2 finals were perfect. Polt, Scarlett, Jaedong, Jim... that's the kind of hype that grows the scene. Heck I would like to see Europeans in our WCS too. Make WCS AM into a mini-WCS season finals, with players from around the world. And you really dont understand SC2 community, do you? Most of us will cheer for anyone who can give us great games. Look how much hype Jim got recently. Why should NA players get more attention just because they're from NA? They have to earn it. If you dont want to watch NA players 'derping' you don't have to. Just watch WCS eu/korea. Also, after a season or two they wouldn't be derping anymore. A few koreans would see that it was worth it to live in America. They could come for school or whatever and play WCS at the same time. Would raise the level of play for everyone. Instead Korea just takes all the money. GG. The American players aren't going to get better by only playing worse players. And if they locked the regions they should give 90% of the prize pool from the WCS US to the Korean one because there's no way Larry the grandmaster protoss on the US server deserves more money than the practice partner on a proleague team who can't get into the challenger league because there are so many great Korean players. It's irrelevent anyway, this is about his visa for the grand finals, so region locking isn't going to prevent Chinese players having to travel ot wherever the final is held. A region lock wouldn't prevent Chinese players? I didn't know there was a wcs china?
So is it talk about region lock (and that means on Americans, not Chinese (and there was wcs china D ) or about discrimination of koreans on basis of 'em being better than most of foreigners.
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On August 20 2013 18:58 Sejanus wrote:
And all of this could have been avoided if people could only compete in their appropriate regions.
How? The season finals are global, how does a region lock help avoid this?
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That really sucks. So many players are deprived the opportunity to play internationally because of visa issues.
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from the manager's blod post, it really seemed someone really screwed up
when dealing with bureoucracy, you have to be sharp, man, really sharp
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On August 20 2013 18:58 Sejanus wrote:
And all of this could have been avoided if people could only compete in their appropriate regions.
Someone doesn't understand how the finals work.
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i don't understand why some people here are critizising the players.
I am just sorry that this had to happen! But they will learn. Visa restrictions are specific for each country and I think that this will not happen again so soon.
It is understandable that a 17 year old boy ( in my eyes he is just a boy) can not travel alone around the world without someone being responsible.
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i MUST say, that if someone cant come, then the person who was next in line i WCS ranking should get that persons spot, not like stephano, when he quit, there was no one to take his place, thats just so wrong....there should be a system where the next in line WCS ranking dude, who didnt make the qualify, to get that persons place who couldnt come for IRL issues or VISA or whatever issues. Just like in normal sports, there is always a reserve spot for people next in line if someone drops out.
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On August 20 2013 16:48 Flyingdutchman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 23:57 DinoMight wrote:On August 19 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 19 2013 23:43 DinoMight wrote:
Why are there so many frickin Visa issues? Is Jim the only Chinese person trying to enter Germany?? Did they just not plan far enough ahead of time for this?
This seems like it should be such a non-issue. Maybe they should look into how this is done for conventional sports. Chinese atheletes compete everywhere all the time. Jim is under 18 years old and he needs a letters from his parents saying someone can act as his guardian while he is there. It’s a requirement in Germany and the letter must be signed by his parent and notarized. He couldn’t get it in time and cannot go because of it. Professional athletes have no problem because they have people who handle this shit for them. Jim doesn’t have that. Its just him and his coach and that is it. They are both young guys and they are learning things as they go. Sounds like "Visa issues" then is "did not plan ahead." I like Jim, but people need to start getting warnings / suspensions for this. So many spots being forfeited because of visa issues. It's not fair to the other players. You go live in China, and apply for a German visa. Good luck  Friends of mine took 6 months getting the Visa, they got it the day before the flight, but it took crazy long.
Having lived in China for a couple of years now and having travelled with my Chinese gf on lots of occasions, I have to say getting a (tourist) visa is definitely not hard for Chinese people and it doesn't take a long time.
I guess officially can't work on a tourist visa however, so they might require a different type of visa. Not sure what visa is required in the Schengen area (prob business or something like that), but I think it shouldn't be too hard acquiring it when having a valid reason and paperwork ...
I wonder... do progamers get business visas (or whatever visa is required) or do they just go on tourist visa. I think there should be little risk of getting caught...
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On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit.
let me tell u why, American players suck because they dont have the ability to get qualified, so it does not make any sense to let thouse "sucked" Americans go into the Global final. If u want a region block, just watch the WCG global final, full of "sucked" players from other region rather than Korea and China, which makes the global final really stupid to watch, and it is a fact that the average skill is much worse than WCG Korea region. I dont care whether those "sucked" foreign players have the chance or not, they suck so they dont get the chance, i am not telling u i want a total Korean global final, for i like those really skillful foreign players who have still got qualified into the global final such as Naniwa and Scarlett, even in the situation u have mentioned "Korean and Chinese players robbing the spots". Naniwa and Scarlett have been qualified for the global final just because they have the skill. It is no doubt that skillful players have their rights to get into the global final, but meanwhile, it is also undoubtable that those "sucked" players should never get the chance untill they perform better.
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On August 20 2013 22:32 MercurialVanjal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit. let me tell u why, American players suck because they dont have the ability to get qualified, so it does not make any sense to let thouse "sucked" Americans go into the Global final. If u want a region block, just watch the WCG global final, full of "sucked" players from other region rather than Korea and China, which makes the global final really stupid to watch, and it is a fact that the average skill is much worse than WCG Korea region. I dont care whether those "sucked" foreign players have the chance or not, they suck so they dont get the chance, i am not telling u i want a total Korean global final, for i like those really skillful foreign players who have still got qualified into the global final such as Naniwa and Scarlett, even in the situation u have mentioned "Korean and Chinese players robbing the spots". Naniwa and Scarlett have been qualified for the global final just because they have the skill. It is no doubt that skillful players have their rights to get into the global final, but meanwhile, it is also undoubtable that those "sucked" players should never get the chance untill they perform better.
You forgot Grubby 
This is a foreign guy who deserves that. Hes a hardwork guy.
Btw. So sad for Jim. But as i said before, someone do some shit (Illegal imigration, terrorism, etc)
and the rest of the good people pay the price.
Sad, but our world is like that.
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United States2822 Posts
On August 20 2013 22:20 Kaolla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 16:48 Flyingdutchman wrote:On August 19 2013 23:57 DinoMight wrote:On August 19 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 19 2013 23:43 DinoMight wrote:
Why are there so many frickin Visa issues? Is Jim the only Chinese person trying to enter Germany?? Did they just not plan far enough ahead of time for this?
This seems like it should be such a non-issue. Maybe they should look into how this is done for conventional sports. Chinese atheletes compete everywhere all the time. Jim is under 18 years old and he needs a letters from his parents saying someone can act as his guardian while he is there. It’s a requirement in Germany and the letter must be signed by his parent and notarized. He couldn’t get it in time and cannot go because of it. Professional athletes have no problem because they have people who handle this shit for them. Jim doesn’t have that. Its just him and his coach and that is it. They are both young guys and they are learning things as they go. Sounds like "Visa issues" then is "did not plan ahead." I like Jim, but people need to start getting warnings / suspensions for this. So many spots being forfeited because of visa issues. It's not fair to the other players. You go live in China, and apply for a German visa. Good luck Friends of mine took 6 months getting the Visa, they got it the day before the flight, but it took crazy long. Having lived in China for a couple of years now and having travelled with my Chinese gf on lots of occasions, I have to say getting a (tourist) visa is definitely not hard for Chinese people and it doesn't take a long time. I guess officially can't work on a tourist visa however, so they might require a different type of visa. Not sure what visa is required in the Schengen area (prob business or something like that), but I think it shouldn't be too hard acquiring it when having a valid reason and paperwork ... I wonder... do progamers get business visas (or whatever visa is required) or do they just go on tourist visa. I think there should be little risk of getting caught...
Would you risk getting caught and having your career jeopardized for the sake of a tournament? I think being paid by Blizzard, which is a multinational software developer, is a bit different than taking a tourist visa and getting paid under the table by an independent organization.
The difference between a business visa and a tourist visa is night and day. Doing things on business means that you are representing a group greater than just yourself.
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So sad 
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On August 20 2013 22:32 MercurialVanjal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit. let me tell u why, American players suck because they dont have the ability to get qualified, so it does not make any sense to let thouse "sucked" Americans go into the Global final. If u want a region block, just watch the WCG global final, full of "sucked" players from other region rather than Korea and China, which makes the global final really stupid to watch, and it is a fact that the average skill is much worse than WCG Korea region. I dont care whether those "sucked" foreign players have the chance or not, they suck so they dont get the chance, i am not telling u i want a total Korean global final, for i like those really skillful foreign players who have still got qualified into the global final such as Naniwa and Scarlett, even in the situation u have mentioned "Korean and Chinese players robbing the spots". Naniwa and Scarlett have been qualified for the global final just because they have the skill. It is no doubt that skillful players have their rights to get into the global final, but meanwhile, it is also undoubtable that those "sucked" players should never get the chance untill they perform better.
The flaw in your logic is that any "sucky" player is better than no player at all. No matter how you slice it, this is an opportunity. If Jim can't make it (which sucks because he earned it I don't disagree) then it doesn't make sense to have the spot empty any percentage of the time.
I love Violet for instance, but at this point I'd make him play in Korea after 2 events he could not make. There needs to be some penalty for this if there isn't a huge change to the WCS model.
WCS needs a SEA region, or realistically should just have country specific leagues that culminate into a single, final tournament in one country that is 2-3 weeks after the country qualifiers, so it's considerably easier for a player to get their visas set up.
Damned if you do Damned if you don't /shrug.
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While I agree that the player himself bears the ultimate responsibility for getting visas, I cant help but to empathize Jim. Having to arrange for numerous Chinese notarizations as part of my day job, they in relative terms take more time and generally a pain in the ass. Sometimes, if the power of attorney is in Chinese, then there may be a question of whether the power of attorney has to be translated and thus whether the translated power of attorney (which is now in German) needs to be notarized as well. And then Guangdong notary public may say he cant notarize the translation 'cause he does not know German (perhaps unless someone else can notarise the translation). TT
To sum it up, it all depends on what the requirements are but if a Chinese notarization is required, then you definitely need to give more time and attention (and money) in arranging for such legal documentation - because it aint that simple.
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Does anyone here believe that this is grounds for opening up a fourth WCS Region? My idea is that Season 1 could be covered by NeoTV in China with surplus funding by blizzard, Season 2 by TeSL (this would be HUGE in Taiwan), and Season 3 by ACL (Australia).
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EPT
