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On August 20 2013 11:11 havok55 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, Except I will not watch a bunch of NA players derping (not that there aren't good players from the Americas, just not enough). I tune in because I want to watch quality games with top level play. I don't give a damn what country the players are from. SC2 is not a national sport. There is no Team USA. It's not us vs them, its individual vs individual. The players in the WCS AM season 2 finals were perfect. Polt, Scarlett, Jaedong, Jim... that's the kind of hype that grows the scene. Heck I would like to see Europeans in our WCS too. Make WCS AM into a mini-WCS season finals, with players from around the world. And you really dont understand SC2 community, do you? Most of us will cheer for anyone who can give us great games. Look how much hype Jim got recently. Why should NA players get more attention just because they're from NA? They have to earn it.
If you dont want to watch NA players 'derping' you don't have to. Just watch WCS eu/korea. Also, after a season or two they wouldn't be derping anymore. A few koreans would see that it was worth it to live in America. They could come for school or whatever and play WCS at the same time. Would raise the level of play for everyone. Instead Korea just takes all the money. GG.
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Why don't they require you to have a visa if your going to enter WCS in another region? Also the next season ban is a good idea. I don't care how hard you work and train, your competing in a tournament you know that your unable to finish. Your robbing a good player of a chance at a championship/win.
Jim clearly did everything that he could. Its hard to learn another countries requirements. He tried multiple solutions, met with the officials got told different things. At least he tried to make it compared to other people who just said screw it and withdrew.
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On August 20 2013 13:29 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 11:11 havok55 wrote:On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, Except I will not watch a bunch of NA players derping (not that there aren't good players from the Americas, just not enough). I tune in because I want to watch quality games with top level play. I don't give a damn what country the players are from. SC2 is not a national sport. There is no Team USA. It's not us vs them, its individual vs individual. The players in the WCS AM season 2 finals were perfect. Polt, Scarlett, Jaedong, Jim... that's the kind of hype that grows the scene. Heck I would like to see Europeans in our WCS too. Make WCS AM into a mini-WCS season finals, with players from around the world. And you really dont understand SC2 community, do you? Most of us will cheer for anyone who can give us great games. Look how much hype Jim got recently. Why should NA players get more attention just because they're from NA? They have to earn it. If you dont want to watch NA players 'derping' you don't have to. Just watch WCS eu/korea. Also, after a season or two they wouldn't be derping anymore. A few koreans would see that it was worth it to live in America. They could come for school or whatever and play WCS at the same time. Would raise the level of play for everyone. Instead Korea just takes all the money. GG.
The American players aren't going to get better by only playing worse players. And if they locked the regions they should give 90% of the prize pool from the WCS US to the Korean one because there's no way Larry the grandmaster protoss on the US server deserves more money than the practice partner on a proleague team who can't get into the challenger league because there are so many great Korean players.
It's irrelevent anyway, this is about his visa for the grand finals, so region locking isn't going to prevent Chinese players having to travel ot wherever the final is held.
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On August 20 2013 13:36 purecarnagge wrote:
Why don't they require you to have a visa if your going to enter WCS in another region? Also the next season ban is a good idea. I don't care how hard you work and train, your competing in a tournament you know that your unable to finish. Your robbing a good player of a chance at a championship/win.
Visas don't work that way. You must have a valid reason when you apply for a visa and it has to be confirmed as legit. Blizzard/SC2/WCS is not a big enough deal for the government to understand or care how the system works.
From reading other threads it's very hard to get a Visa for anything as a Chinese resident. In general it's also difficult to get a visa for America from any other region. This particular case was made much more difficult by the fact that Jim is not 18.
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Sigh...what a waste 
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A lot of people in this thread do not understand how getting a visa works,and how difficult it is. You can't just apply for one with no valid reason and it can take months to process. For US visas, my country even requires an interview. That said, it is unfair for people to point the blame at Jim for not applying before he got qualified, and even suggesting 'punishment' is frankly, quite ridiculous and it will make the situation look even worse.
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On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit.
If the player can't make it, the next person deserving of the shot immediately gets it. Whats your problem?
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JIMMY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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On August 20 2013 13:29 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 11:11 havok55 wrote:On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, Except I will not watch a bunch of NA players derping (not that there aren't good players from the Americas, just not enough). I tune in because I want to watch quality games with top level play. I don't give a damn what country the players are from. SC2 is not a national sport. There is no Team USA. It's not us vs them, its individual vs individual. The players in the WCS AM season 2 finals were perfect. Polt, Scarlett, Jaedong, Jim... that's the kind of hype that grows the scene. Heck I would like to see Europeans in our WCS too. Make WCS AM into a mini-WCS season finals, with players from around the world. And you really dont understand SC2 community, do you? Most of us will cheer for anyone who can give us great games. Look how much hype Jim got recently. Why should NA players get more attention just because they're from NA? They have to earn it. If you dont want to watch NA players 'derping' you don't have to. Just watch WCS eu/korea. Also, after a season or two they wouldn't be derping anymore. A few koreans would see that it was worth it to live in America. They could come for school or whatever and play WCS at the same time. Would raise the level of play for everyone. Instead Korea just takes all the money. GG.
That's the problem. People wont watch. So how will that help grow the "scene"? The scene isn't just the players. Without the viewers there is no scene.
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On August 19 2013 23:57 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 19 2013 23:43 DinoMight wrote:
Why are there so many frickin Visa issues? Is Jim the only Chinese person trying to enter Germany?? Did they just not plan far enough ahead of time for this?
This seems like it should be such a non-issue. Maybe they should look into how this is done for conventional sports. Chinese atheletes compete everywhere all the time. Jim is under 18 years old and he needs a letters from his parents saying someone can act as his guardian while he is there. It’s a requirement in Germany and the letter must be signed by his parent and notarized. He couldn’t get it in time and cannot go because of it. Professional athletes have no problem because they have people who handle this shit for them. Jim doesn’t have that. Its just him and his coach and that is it. They are both young guys and they are learning things as they go. Sounds like "Visa issues" then is "did not plan ahead." I like Jim, but people need to start getting warnings / suspensions for this. So many spots being forfeited because of visa issues. It's not fair to the other players.
You go live in China, and apply for a German visa. Good luck  Friends of mine took 6 months getting the Visa, they got it the day before the flight, but it took crazy long.
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The American players aren't going to get better by only playing worse players. And if they locked the regions they should give 90% of the prize pool from the WCS US to the Korean one because there's no way Larry the grandmaster protoss on the US server deserves more money than the practice partner on a proleague team who can't get into the challenger league because there are so many great Korean players. It's irrelevent anyway, this is about his visa for the grand finals, so region locking isn't going to prevent Chinese players having to travel ot wherever the final is held.
Laughed more than I should on this one..... [x] vote for new stereotype: Larry the NA GM Toss
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 16:52 ArcadeR wrote:Show nested quote +
...
The American players aren't going to get better by only playing worse players. And if they locked the regions they should give 90% of the prize pool from the WCS US to the Korean one because there's no way Larry the grandmaster protoss on the US server deserves more money than the practice partner on a proleague team who can't get into the challenger league because there are so many great Korean players. It's irrelevent anyway, this is about his visa for the grand finals, so region locking isn't going to prevent Chinese players having to travel ot wherever the final is held. Laughed more than I should on this one..... [x] vote for new stereotype: Larry the NA GM Toss
ROOTLarry!
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On August 20 2013 16:27 OPL3SA2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit. If the player can't make it, the next person deserving of the shot immediately gets it. Whats your problem?
All the players eliminated by the forfeiter earlier in the tourney got shafted.
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Why not require players to have relevant visas for both finals (regional and world) before the season even begins? Or as fast as possible after qualifying for premier league.
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On August 20 2013 17:32 [KGS]Slacker wrote:
Why not require players to have relevant visas for both finals (regional and world) before the season even begins? Or as fast as possible after qualifying for premier league.
It's not that easy to just apply for a visa, there are fees associated with it and you need to have a legit reason to be applying for the visa before you get it - you can't just apply for one because you "might" qualify, you need to have actual proof of qualification first. And that's even if the visa office approves of some random videogame's tournament,
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On August 20 2013 17:38 TylerThaCreator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 17:32 [KGS]Slacker wrote:
Why not require players to have relevant visas for both finals (regional and world) before the season even begins? Or as fast as possible after qualifying for premier league. It's not that easy to just apply for a visa, there are fees associated with it and you need to have a legit reason to be applying for the visa before you get it - you can't just apply for one because you "might" qualify, you need to have actual proof of qualification first. And that's even if the visa office approves of some random videogame's tournament,
This, plus chances are that you have to show the flight ticket before they consider making a visa so you can prove that you can actually afford the flight. This means in the worst case that jim has to spend money for 3 flights per year (season finals) that he won't need if he does not qualify, and I'm pretty sure it's not cheap to fly from china to europe / us.
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On August 20 2013 16:06 Shellebelles wrote:
A lot of people in this thread do not understand how getting a visa works,and how difficult it is. You can't just apply for one with no valid reason and it can take months to process. For US visas, my country even requires an interview. That said, it is unfair for people to point the blame at Jim for not applying before he got qualified, and even suggesting 'punishment' is frankly, quite ridiculous and it will make the situation look even worse.
If you're a German citizen and want to apply for a US visa, you also need to have an interview (albeit short), so I don't think it is something special. Anyways, didn't the ESL have something prepared that would make the VISA go through in just three days, once all necessary documents are handed in? They just failed identify the necessary documents and gather them within given time.
While nobody thinks that they did it on purpose and everybody pretty much agrees that Jim is the one who is mainly screwed over by this, I can't help but think that it is also his (or his mangers') fault.
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On August 20 2013 17:54 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 17:38 TylerThaCreator wrote:On August 20 2013 17:32 [KGS]Slacker wrote:
Why not require players to have relevant visas for both finals (regional and world) before the season even begins? Or as fast as possible after qualifying for premier league. It's not that easy to just apply for a visa, there are fees associated with it and you need to have a legit reason to be applying for the visa before you get it - you can't just apply for one because you "might" qualify, you need to have actual proof of qualification first. And that's even if the visa office approves of some random videogame's tournament, This, plus chances are that you have to show the flight ticket before they consider making a visa so you can prove that you can actually afford the flight. This means in the worst case that jim has to spend money for 3 flights per year (season finals) that he won't need if he does not qualify, and I'm pretty sure it's not cheap to fly from china to europe / us.
Okay, I am hearing this from multiple sides now (plane ticket being a requirement), but are there any sources? I am not doubting this, but I could only find a proof of having enough money as requirement, it did not state that it has to be in form of a plane ticket.
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Somewhere I met this kind of buracracy before.. hmm wait a sec... It was in russia. Same bullshit. To get smth done you always need to bribe someone... Pity.
And as a specialist in getting visas to anywhere because i am coming from a 3rd world country.
You always need:
Passport
Financial statement (that you can support yourself)
Invitation. Usually it has to be some official paper. Private invitaition usually doesn't cut it.
Filled out forms. (here depends on the embassy. Some countries are very flexible and helpful. Some won't even let you in into the building if smth is filled out wrong.)
Prove of paid fee for visa application. (some embassy accepts money at the counter.)
Some kind of Travel arrangements (worst cas scenario: Flight ticket (not reservation) und Hotel booking confirmed)
I think thats it
Most important where the embassy is located: german embassy in US and german embassy in China is 2 different stories.
Btw. at some embassies you need to make a reservation for appointment. And waiting time is months.
So good luck all you people with nice passports. You don't know how lucky you are. I have a german passport now and sooooooo happy.
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On August 20 2013 18:31 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 17:54 phagga wrote:On August 20 2013 17:38 TylerThaCreator wrote:On August 20 2013 17:32 [KGS]Slacker wrote:
Why not require players to have relevant visas for both finals (regional and world) before the season even begins? Or as fast as possible after qualifying for premier league. It's not that easy to just apply for a visa, there are fees associated with it and you need to have a legit reason to be applying for the visa before you get it - you can't just apply for one because you "might" qualify, you need to have actual proof of qualification first. And that's even if the visa office approves of some random videogame's tournament, This, plus chances are that you have to show the flight ticket before they consider making a visa so you can prove that you can actually afford the flight. This means in the worst case that jim has to spend money for 3 flights per year (season finals) that he won't need if he does not qualify, and I'm pretty sure it's not cheap to fly from china to europe / us. Okay, I am hearing this from multiple sides now (plane ticket being a requirement), but are there any sources? I am not doubting this, but I could only find a proof of having enough money as requirement, it did not state that it has to be in form of a plane ticket.
It's a pretty standard thing to ask for a proof of travel when applying for a work visa. I applied for a German work visa at the beginning of the year and they needed it and proof of what I would be doing in Germany.
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EPT
