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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On August 20 2013 10:35 a176 wrote:
Glad this happened. Not for Jim, not for his competitors, not for the other eliminated competitors either. But for Blizzard, for all the questions and criticisms that were raised when they announced the peculiarities of the WCS system, which are now coming back to bite them in the ass.
When viOLet couldn't get his VISA for WCS AM S2 Finals they issued a vague statement about the future of WCS and VISA issues. I'm really curious to see what, if anything, Blizzard ends up doing.
http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/articles/update-violet-visa-status-top-v-capoch-xy-v-heart
(Aug 3, 2013) Given the large number of visa issues that have confronted players in WCS America over the first 2 seasons, we will be re-examining our policy regarding visas going into 2013 Season 3 and 2014 WCS. We will strive for a fair system that ensures the integrity of WCS tournaments, while we allow as many to compete as possible.
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On August 20 2013 10:26 mikumegurine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 10:23 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 10:04 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:52 Iodem wrote:On August 20 2013 09:46 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:45 Iodem wrote:On August 20 2013 09:35 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:33 negativedge wrote:
damn, this just straight up cost Jim a minimum of $5000
but I guess according to the people in this thread it's his fault for playing NA instead of signing up for that WCS China region It doesn't even matter if there is a WCS China, because he'd have had the same issue to travel to Germany when winning WCS China. Unfortunately, Blizzard needs to plan this tournament series better. The issue was ESL/Blizzard/whatever powers that be chose to have the finals hosted at gamescom, meaning they had no ability to alter what dates the finals were held. It was locked in at 2 weeks after the finals, which clearly isn't enough time for Chinese players to get visas. Exactly my point.... Guess I should read more of the thread than just your two posts on this page. That said I don't see how blizzard's going to make sure they don't have this same issue if Jim/Macsed qualify for the season finals and have to switch out their USA visas for Canadian visas unless they put a bigger time gap for the finals. This time they had 2 weeks to get ready for the S2 finals in Germany, and that wasn't enough. I don't know if blizzard would really want to wait out 3 weeks or more between the regional season finals and global season finals. I think I understand Blizzard's approach in relation to your point--Blizzard would rather do the final at Gamescom since it'll be less expensive for them piggybacking off of a location, but more difficult for the competitors who qualified. Why carry the expenses when you can do what you're currently doing by putting the responsibility on the player to be able to attend, and just replacing them? Smart business move. Its not Blizzards fault that one player was unable to get a notarized letter from his mother that he needed to get a visa. This final was always going to be held in Germany. Why? Because ESL is there and they get the season 2 finals and the season 3 finals is in NA. One per region. I know you want to blame Blizzard, but its really not their fault. They told people this was happening back in April when they announced WCS. 14 other players will be able to attend without issue. Just because one can't go, we don't need to get out the anti-Blizzard pitchforks. They could atleast give him the $5000, and World Season Final WCS points that he deserves instead of taking it away from Jim and giving the money and WCS points to Alive (who wasnt good enough to be there) Funny how if Jim didn't tell Blizzard about the VISA Issues, Jim would actually get the $5000 and Season Final WCS points
he would just be DQ'd at the tournament, and get 16th place at Season Finalsinstead, he told Blizzard, and now Blizzard takes away Jim's money and points and gives them to Alive
You have to play in the Season 2 Global finals to qualify for that money. If you don't go, you don't get the money. Its like work, if you don't show up, you don't get paid.
Its not his until he earns it.
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On August 20 2013 10:35 a176 wrote:
Glad this happened. Not for Jim, not for his competitors, not for the other eliminated competitors either. But for Blizzard, for all the questions and criticisms that were raised when they announced the peculiarities of the WCS system, which are now coming back to bite them in the ass.
So you see something that happened which is really shitty for a player and his fans and an entire country which won't be represented, and you are happy that it becomes an excuse for you to hate on blizzard? Okay. Blizzard didn't design the VISA region limits in China, no esports company in the world would have done anything in time to fix it barring bribing Chinese officials.
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On August 20 2013 10:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 10:26 mikumegurine wrote:On August 20 2013 10:23 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 10:04 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:52 Iodem wrote:On August 20 2013 09:46 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:45 Iodem wrote:On August 20 2013 09:35 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:33 negativedge wrote:
damn, this just straight up cost Jim a minimum of $5000
but I guess according to the people in this thread it's his fault for playing NA instead of signing up for that WCS China region It doesn't even matter if there is a WCS China, because he'd have had the same issue to travel to Germany when winning WCS China. Unfortunately, Blizzard needs to plan this tournament series better. The issue was ESL/Blizzard/whatever powers that be chose to have the finals hosted at gamescom, meaning they had no ability to alter what dates the finals were held. It was locked in at 2 weeks after the finals, which clearly isn't enough time for Chinese players to get visas. Exactly my point.... Guess I should read more of the thread than just your two posts on this page. That said I don't see how blizzard's going to make sure they don't have this same issue if Jim/Macsed qualify for the season finals and have to switch out their USA visas for Canadian visas unless they put a bigger time gap for the finals. This time they had 2 weeks to get ready for the S2 finals in Germany, and that wasn't enough. I don't know if blizzard would really want to wait out 3 weeks or more between the regional season finals and global season finals. I think I understand Blizzard's approach in relation to your point--Blizzard would rather do the final at Gamescom since it'll be less expensive for them piggybacking off of a location, but more difficult for the competitors who qualified. Why carry the expenses when you can do what you're currently doing by putting the responsibility on the player to be able to attend, and just replacing them? Smart business move. Its not Blizzards fault that one player was unable to get a notarized letter from his mother that he needed to get a visa. This final was always going to be held in Germany. Why? Because ESL is there and they get the season 2 finals and the season 3 finals is in NA. One per region. I know you want to blame Blizzard, but its really not their fault. They told people this was happening back in April when they announced WCS. 14 other players will be able to attend without issue. Just because one can't go, we don't need to get out the anti-Blizzard pitchforks. They could atleast give him the $5000, and World Season Final WCS points that he deserves instead of taking it away from Jim and giving the money and WCS points to Alive (who wasnt good enough to be there) Funny how if Jim didn't tell Blizzard about the VISA Issues, Jim would actually get the $5000 and Season Final WCS points
he would just be DQ'd at the tournament, and get 16th place at Season Finalsinstead, he told Blizzard, and now Blizzard takes away Jim's money and points and gives them to Alive You have to play in the Season 2 Global finals to qualify for that money. If you don't go, you don't get the money. Its like work, if you don't show up, you don't get paid. Its not his until he earns it.
if he didnt show up, he would be DQ'd at the venue
put in 16th place
get 16th place $5000 Money and WCS points
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On August 20 2013 10:54 mikumegurine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 10:49 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 10:26 mikumegurine wrote:On August 20 2013 10:23 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 10:04 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:52 Iodem wrote:On August 20 2013 09:46 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:45 Iodem wrote:On August 20 2013 09:35 bxc wrote:On August 20 2013 09:33 negativedge wrote:
damn, this just straight up cost Jim a minimum of $5000
but I guess according to the people in this thread it's his fault for playing NA instead of signing up for that WCS China region It doesn't even matter if there is a WCS China, because he'd have had the same issue to travel to Germany when winning WCS China. Unfortunately, Blizzard needs to plan this tournament series better. The issue was ESL/Blizzard/whatever powers that be chose to have the finals hosted at gamescom, meaning they had no ability to alter what dates the finals were held. It was locked in at 2 weeks after the finals, which clearly isn't enough time for Chinese players to get visas. Exactly my point.... Guess I should read more of the thread than just your two posts on this page. That said I don't see how blizzard's going to make sure they don't have this same issue if Jim/Macsed qualify for the season finals and have to switch out their USA visas for Canadian visas unless they put a bigger time gap for the finals. This time they had 2 weeks to get ready for the S2 finals in Germany, and that wasn't enough. I don't know if blizzard would really want to wait out 3 weeks or more between the regional season finals and global season finals. I think I understand Blizzard's approach in relation to your point--Blizzard would rather do the final at Gamescom since it'll be less expensive for them piggybacking off of a location, but more difficult for the competitors who qualified. Why carry the expenses when you can do what you're currently doing by putting the responsibility on the player to be able to attend, and just replacing them? Smart business move. Its not Blizzards fault that one player was unable to get a notarized letter from his mother that he needed to get a visa. This final was always going to be held in Germany. Why? Because ESL is there and they get the season 2 finals and the season 3 finals is in NA. One per region. I know you want to blame Blizzard, but its really not their fault. They told people this was happening back in April when they announced WCS. 14 other players will be able to attend without issue. Just because one can't go, we don't need to get out the anti-Blizzard pitchforks. They could atleast give him the $5000, and World Season Final WCS points that he deserves instead of taking it away from Jim and giving the money and WCS points to Alive (who wasnt good enough to be there) Funny how if Jim didn't tell Blizzard about the VISA Issues, Jim would actually get the $5000 and Season Final WCS points
he would just be DQ'd at the tournament, and get 16th place at Season Finalsinstead, he told Blizzard, and now Blizzard takes away Jim's money and points and gives them to Alive You have to play in the Season 2 Global finals to qualify for that money. If you don't go, you don't get the money. Its like work, if you don't show up, you don't get paid. Its not his until he earns it. if he didnt show up, he would be DQ'd at the venue put in 16th place get 16th place $5000 Money and WCS points
Yes, so he forfeited his spot, like a good sportsman and gave it to another player that he knocked out. If he didn't show up and never traveled to Germany because he didn't have a Visa, but expected the money anyways, he would be an asshole. You don't get rewarded for not competing in an event and I don't think Blizzard would give him the money. I wouldn't be shocked to find out there were rules that said you must show up to the venue to even qualify to get paid.
There are no free lunches. You have at least show up to take last place.
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On August 20 2013 10:52 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 10:35 a176 wrote:
Glad this happened. Not for Jim, not for his competitors, not for the other eliminated competitors either. But for Blizzard, for all the questions and criticisms that were raised when they announced the peculiarities of the WCS system, which are now coming back to bite them in the ass. So you see something that happened which is really shitty for a player and his fans and an entire country which won't be represented, and you are happy that it becomes an excuse for you to hate on blizzard? Okay. Blizzard didn't design the VISA region limits in China, no esports company in the world would have done anything in time to fix it barring bribing Chinese officials.
They did decide to totally ignore china (and the rest of asia/australia excluding korea) when setting up the wcs system though, forcing them to play on NA or have to physically play every single round in korea.
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On August 20 2013 11:00 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 10:52 Caihead wrote:On August 20 2013 10:35 a176 wrote:
Glad this happened. Not for Jim, not for his competitors, not for the other eliminated competitors either. But for Blizzard, for all the questions and criticisms that were raised when they announced the peculiarities of the WCS system, which are now coming back to bite them in the ass. So you see something that happened which is really shitty for a player and his fans and an entire country which won't be represented, and you are happy that it becomes an excuse for you to hate on blizzard? Okay. Blizzard didn't design the VISA region limits in China, no esports company in the world would have done anything in time to fix it barring bribing Chinese officials. They did decide to totally ignore china (and the rest of asia/australia excluding korea) when setting up the wcs system though, forcing them to play on NA or have to physically play every single round in korea.
Same for every player outside of the key countries where the event is being held, what's your point? I made an entire thread explaining why the system was crappy for Chinese players and know exactly how frustrating it is, but this is no excuse to go on hating blizzard at all. Visa problems are going to exist as long as players can't plan months in advance to attend a live venue, which the WCS points systems creates, no one knows who will get more points until the games are played some times just a few days or weeks before the WCS finals.
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On August 20 2013 11:00 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 10:52 Caihead wrote:On August 20 2013 10:35 a176 wrote:
Glad this happened. Not for Jim, not for his competitors, not for the other eliminated competitors either. But for Blizzard, for all the questions and criticisms that were raised when they announced the peculiarities of the WCS system, which are now coming back to bite them in the ass. So you see something that happened which is really shitty for a player and his fans and an entire country which won't be represented, and you are happy that it becomes an excuse for you to hate on blizzard? Okay. Blizzard didn't design the VISA region limits in China, no esports company in the world would have done anything in time to fix it barring bribing Chinese officials. They did decide to totally ignore china (and the rest of asia/australia excluding korea) when setting up the wcs system though, forcing them to play on NA or have to physically play every single round in korea.
They also ignored parts of Siberia and the entire continent of Africa. Not everyone gets their own region for WCS. They tried that and specifically said that not every region was worth it and some were huge money sinks.
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Plansix's posts are never worth responding to. Why he is allowed to troll (for his sake, I hope he is) unabated is a mystery to me. Personally, I think he ruins threads and deters people from even bothering to read threads, let alone post in them.
That aside, if Koreans are allowed to qualify online for NA and make a farce out of the region, because we only want the best of the best, then I want Jim to be allowed to play from his home, via online. Nothing is fair about WCS NA, and I see no ground to stand on now to complain about disadvantages. Jim was better than Alive. If Jim is better and he tried to attain a VISA, and there was nothing he could do to change the outcome, then he should be able to play from China.
Allowing Jim to play is far more fair to me than letting Alive play. Jim earned that money, too. Alive gets at least 5k, that he otherwise wouldn't, simply because of a VISA decision, and Jim essentially loses 5k simply based off a VISA decision? The only winner in the current scenario is Alive. Not only is Jim more deserving, but he's the fan favorite. Alive's presence in the tournament is so minuscule that he may as well not even be there.
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On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all,
Except I will not watch a bunch of NA players derping (not that there aren't good players from the Americas, just not enough). I tune in because I want to watch quality games with top level play. I don't give a damn what country the players are from. SC2 is not a national sport. There is no Team USA. It's not us vs them, its individual vs individual.
The players in the WCS AM season 2 finals were perfect. Polt, Scarlett, Jaedong, Jim... that's the kind of hype that grows the scene. Heck I would like to see Europeans in our WCS too. Make WCS AM into a mini-WCS season finals, with players from around the world.
And you really dont understand SC2 community, do you? Most of us will cheer for anyone who can give us great games. Look how much hype Jim got recently. Why should NA players get more attention just because they're from NA? They have to earn it.
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At least it won't happen in future when he turns 18.
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the vehicle of eSports used to be technology, these days it's bloody travel costs and visas
i wish we could just FIX IT
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On August 20 2013 11:14 jiberish wrote:
At least it won't happen in future when he turns 18.
hes 18 in less than 2 months lol
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Deserves a season ban imo. Even with his age he`s already been through enough visa trouble to know better. Researching requirements and being prepared is not that much to ask.
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On August 20 2013 11:11 havok55 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, Except I will not watch a bunch of NA players derping (not that there aren't good players from the Americas, just not enough). I tune in because I want to watch quality games with top level play. I don't give a damn what country the players are from. SC2 is not a national sport. There is no Team USA. It's not us vs them, its individual vs individual. .
you think blizzard cares if you watch or not , if they do they would never put ro8 in the same time as TI3. if you wanna watch highest level of play go watch wcs kr not wcs na or eu .
On August 20 2013 11:11 havok55 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, The players in the WCS AM season 2 finals were perfect. Polt, Scarlett, Jaedong, Jim... that's the kind of hype that grows the scene. Heck I would like to see Europeans in our WCS too. Make WCS AM into a mini-WCS season finals, with players from around the world.
hype grows the scene ? new players grow it not hype . nobody will buy the game becose you will tell them look JD and POLT are good . they would rather buy it if you would be like " hey i know this guy who lives near us that play this , check it out "
On August 20 2013 11:11 havok55 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:00 Spectralx wrote:
Region lock, and Starcraft would have 10 times less problems. All scenes would have a chance to grow. GL all, And you really dont understand SC2 community, do you? Most of us will cheer for anyone who can give us great games. Look how much hype Jim got recently. Why should NA players get more attention just because they're from NA? They have to earn it.
you know how this feels ? it feels like you take Italy or Spain soccer team and send it to play vs Afghanistan soccer team . are you seriously ?
How would a NA player compete in par with Korean players when you dont even have 1/8 the amount of PRO team , PRO players Pro coaches and PRO houses . you want players to rise from dry stones . you have no infrastructure no team no practice partners nothing .
on topic : i hope they make sure they can get visa before getting so deep into tournament .
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On August 20 2013 11:36 Scarecrow wrote:
Deserves a season ban imo. Even with his age he`s already been through enough visa trouble to know better. Researching requirements and being prepared is not that much to ask.
Jim has never been abroad before the WCS NA the past season. He suffered a lot with US visa when he's qualified for Ro16 and finally got through it. Unfortunately for German visa he didn't. You don't know how hard for Chinese to get visa on their own. I was enrolled in an university in US and after I got all the materials I need, it still took about two months to get the visa in my hand. He only had two weeks which made it completely understandable.
For sure when he turns 18 and has more experience it would be much better.
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On August 20 2013 00:00 brieN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit. yeah cause those american players suck and cant make the cut. Jim posted for a visa over a month ago due to other people having the same thing, its not his fault governments are slow and sometimes even stupid. shut up you fanboy and learn to like players that are good User was temp banned for this post.
Temp banned for speaking the truth. :/
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On August 20 2013 12:21 var username wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:00 brieN wrote:On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit. yeah cause those american players suck and cant make the cut. Jim posted for a visa over a month ago due to other people having the same thing, its not his fault governments are slow and sometimes even stupid. shut up you fanboy and learn to like players that are good User was temp banned for this post. Temp banned for speaking the truth. :/
I think he might have been banned for the " shut up you fanboy and learn to like players that are good" part. That is just me though.
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EPT
