EPTWCS America Reflections - 5 Things We Learned - Page 6
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On August 14 2013 09:44 m0ck wrote: So, in 3½ months the US scene will be gone? ^^ There isn't really much of a pro scene in the US as is. It's just a bunch of amateur gamers really. Even some of the strongest Americans are basically just college students who play when they don't have class (which is impressive how Polt manages). | ||
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Gnusnu
United States118 Posts
On August 14 2013 08:47 Inimic wrote: Scarlett won't save the "American" scene? She's Canadian. Just like Huk. Sorry, 'Murica. You know America is a continent, right? | ||
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Ohforfsake
Norway204 Posts
On August 14 2013 09:28 Xahhk wrote: What was their justification for no region lock? Hoping Koreans would eventually voluntarily set up shop in foreign lands and develop local talent there via skill osmosis? The plan was for korean players to set up shop in EU/NA, find a local girl and have children. Then maybe their children can truly represent the region and compete with the Koreans. (Sorry, couldn't help myself. I had to create an account here just to post that. The current system is just too stupid. Does anyone know why they arn't looking at real sports (not the american versions but the global versions) when they set up this WCS system? I mean it's been done before. WCS/Blizzard arn't inventing the wheel for the first time here) | ||
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Zethiel
Bolivia39 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On August 14 2013 10:48 Ohforfsake wrote: The plan was for korean players to set up shop in EU/NA, find a local girl and have children. Then maybe their children can truly represent the region and compete with the Koreans. (Sorry, couldn't help myself. I had to create an account here just to post that. The current system is just too stupid. Does anyone know why they arn't looking at real sports (not the american versions but the global versions) when they set up this WCS system? I mean it's been done before. WCS/Blizzard arn't inventing the wheel for the first time here) A) New system was already fairly negatively received by people wishing to travel and play in lots of tournaments given the short money-making period that is success in starcraft. B) Multiple regions are already not represented, what do then? Force Chinese and Taiwanese players to go to offline qualifiers in Korea and stay there for 3 months to even get into the premier league? Where do you region lock them? C) System already had to integrate itself with existing tournaments. GSL, OSL, Dreamhack, IEM, etc weren't going to just go "Oh Blizzard is taking over? Cool we'll just stop doing stuff now." Honestly it's not a great solution still. I'd prefer there to be more WCS still, more similar to last year's regions, except whilst integrated with the tournaments. EDIT: What? No trophy? =( | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16097 Posts
On August 14 2013 11:13 Zethiel wrote: I also wanted to note, WCS AM is the only WCS where the first place, doesn't get a trophy. IMHO, very sad/lame. That's on NASL. That's not Blizzard's fault. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 14 2013 11:23 Vindicare605 wrote: That's on NASL. That's not Blizzard's fault. Yep, plus have you seen the other trophies that we give out in other tournaments? If you want to talk about jokes. I'd say a lot of the trophies look like jokes. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On August 14 2013 11:35 jax1492 wrote: NA is not better than EU, Its Korea lite I agree but I still think EU was better. Honestly with their current play, I don't think anyone in the Ro8 EU holds a candle to Taeja or Polt. Jaedong maybe because JvP. That's really what their referring to here. The top of WCS NA this season is far stronger in appearance to the top of WCS EU. It was probably the other way around last season with TLO, Stephano and Dimaga looking beastly, and Mvp and ForGG looking fairly strong too. MC, Finale, Grubby, Welmu, Naniwa, MMA doesn't have the same strength to Jim, Taeja, Polt, Jaedong, Scarlett. I'd love to see some EU peeps do well. I mean, how can you not cheer for Grubby? But NA has a stronger lineup this season imo. (Of course this is all subjective, even if someone brought out stats). | ||
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Ohforfsake
Norway204 Posts
On August 14 2013 11:16 bittman wrote: A) New system was already fairly negatively received by people wishing to travel and play in lots of tournaments given the short money-making period that is success in starcraft. B) Multiple regions are already not represented, what do then? Force Chinese and Taiwanese players to go to offline qualifiers in Korea and stay there for 3 months to even get into the premier league? Where do you region lock them? C) System already had to integrate itself with existing tournaments. GSL, OSL, Dreamhack, IEM, etc weren't going to just go "Oh Blizzard is taking over? Cool we'll just stop doing stuff now." Honestly it's not a great solution still. I'd prefer there to be more WCS still, more similar to last year's regions, except whilst integrated with the tournaments. EDIT: What? No trophy? =( A) I don't see the difference from real sports. Lots of sports have the same issue and handle it. Why not look at how they do it? Or have they and I don't understand it? B) This is exactly why i asked what i did. This is the same challange all new sports have and all old sports have overcome. Again, why not look at what they did? C) I have absolutly no idea why those tournaments could not go on as they were. Again i would like to see some more explanations from the brains behind the current system. That is besically what I'm asking for. There are people at Blizzard/WCS that have been payed to research this and come up with the current system (I assume). What did they come up with and why did they recomend this path? In my agruably limited knowledge of real sports history it doesn't seem like they are following in the already tried paths but rather walking their own way. They also seem very impatient with results (no sport was built over a short period of time). I would love to see somewhere on teamliquid or else some of the real brains behind this system share their ideas and beliefs to better understand their reasoning. Also, a real vision for WCS would be nice. Is it to promote korean Esports (if so they are doing a good job now) or is it to promote Esports everywhere? As a contrast to this you can look at Valve and TI3 who was a smashing success in promoting Esports all over the globe with the top 4 teams placing from 3 different regions. Everything I read about Dota2 and it's setup of tournaments etc reminds me of real sports outside Esport. When I look at SC2 I just get confused and understand nothing of how they plan to create a real international competition that sparks interest all around the world. Sidenote. The best SC2 tournament I have seen so far (and I have watched all the big ones now for over a year) was the WCS Europe finals 2012. I was really happy after that tournament and really felt this sport was heading in the right direction. Then this year came and I'm just confused. I thought time might shed some light but 6 months later I'm none the wiser. | ||
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Mudkipnick
Korea (South)241 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16097 Posts
The WCS GLOBAL FINALS of 2012 was a complete flop. The whole point in not region locking the tournament was to build more hype for the finals by having THAT be the focus of the tournament. WCS Europe was the only good thing to really come out of the WCS 2012 Tournament. WCS America, WCS Korea and the Global Finals were all nowhere near as successful in creating any of the same excitement Europe did. This year, the finals are going to rock. The Season 2 finals is already an incredible looking tournament with a roster so stacked you can't help but not get hyped for it. The Global Finals at Blizzcon is going to be even better. | ||
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KivTM
Australia90 Posts
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jackslater
Russian Federation604 Posts
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zmsFlood
Finland169 Posts
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FeUerFlieGe
United States1193 Posts
I mean seriously, why bother calling it WCS America if it's mostly made up of Koreans. On a different note: Scarlett is the North American hope. One of the few NA players on a tier 2 Korean level. | ||
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Ohforfsake
Norway204 Posts
On August 14 2013 12:41 Vindicare605 wrote: WCS Europe 2012 was a tremendous success, no one is arguing it wasn't. The WCS GLOBAL FINALS of 2012 was a complete flop. The whole point in not region locking the tournament was to build more hype for the finals by having THAT be the focus of the tournament. WCS Europe was the only good thing to really come out of the WCS 2012 Tournament. WCS America, WCS Korea and the Global Finals were all nowhere near as successful in creating any of the same excitement Europe did. This year, the finals are going to rock. The Season 2 finals is already an incredible looking tournament with a roster so stacked you can't help but not get hyped for it. The Global Finals at Blizzcon is going to be even better. I'm not sure if you're answering me seince you didn't quote but I'll assume you are and answer since it seems to tie together with some of what I wrote. If you did answer me i must say "wow! talk about not answering a single of my 15 or so questions". But lets look at your argument with some base facts. - WCS EU 2012 hosted 0 korean participants and only 1 of the at the current time arguably top 16 players in the world (Stephano). - There were many tournaments in 2012 that hosted way more than 1 of the top 16 players of the worlds (notably GSLs, OSL, MLG and probably some Dreamhack). - WSC EU 2012 was the most successful tournament of 2012 (Highest viewers on streams, barcarfts hype etc that i could see). Now, with this information you argue that this seasons finals and the years finals will be even greater because: - It will hold the top 16 players in the world with about 12 koreans for this seasons finals and 15-16 koreans for the world finals at blizcon. I do not see the correlation. If anything it looks like the other less successful tournaments of 2012. The fact that WCS EU 2012 had 0 koreans and still was so well recieved by the public should make you stop and think. I'm not saying that all koreans should be kicked out or anything like it. But I am saying that maybe gathering the most skilled players of the world from one country isn't the most important thing to create a great global sports event. And there should be some lessons learned here and from the flop you mentioned at the finals (which was aired at an abysmal time in Europe with loads of streaming problems). And I would still like to see/read some serious answers/thoughts from the people behind the current system about this. Oh well. I guess I'll just get the same old answers as anyone else who have tried to ask these questions. "Next tournament will be greater" "I just want to see the best players" - broodwar elitist fans "Koreans are so much better that it's unfair to give any money to anyone else.." I'll continue to tune into these tournaments whenever I want to see who's the current top Korean in each region. I just find that this curiosity happens less and less offen now and I find that I would love to see who's the best outside of Korea sometime too. In the mean time I'll just have to wait another year for TI4 to see a real international tournament.  | ||
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