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On August 12 2013 05:39 rasnj wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 05:08 Ace Frehley wrote:On August 12 2013 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
imo blizzard should just fork over the cash.
what is it ? 75 ? 100k?? petty change to prevent your brand from being damaged like that...
then turn around and sue IGN if its possible.
this is not good publicity. Even if the responsability of paying the guys is IGN's, the tourney was ran with a blizz product. That would set a terrible precedent. Should they pay the http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Campus_Party_Europe too? According to Snute, they didn't pay everyone, either Blizzard effectively bought IPL. Legally they may just have hired the old employees, but everyone thinks of it as IPL and Blizzard seems to have attempted to at least present the same public personalities instead of subbing in their own or re-organizing.
Blizzard did not "effectively buy" IPL, they only hired their old employees. And no one I know thinks of it as 'IPL'. There is no way in hell that this is Blizzard responsibility, legally or not. IGN is the company that ran IPL, they are the ones on the hook. It isn't Blizzard's job to pay out in case the tournament doesn't. That would be an awful precedent.
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+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE]On August 12 2013 05:46 BlackPanther wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 12 2013 05:39 rasnj wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 12 2013 05:08 Ace Frehley wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 12 2013 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
imo blizzard should just fork over the cash.
what is it ? 75 ? 100k?? petty change to prevent your brand from being damaged like that...
then turn around and sue IGN if its possible.
this is not good publicity. Even if the responsability of paying the guys is IGN's, the tourney was ran with a blizz product.[/QUOTE]
That would set a terrible precedent.
Should they pay the [url=http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Campus_Party_Europe]http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Campus_Party_Europe[/url] too?
According to Snute, they didn't pay everyone, either[/QUOTE]
Blizzard effectively bought IPL. Legally they may just have hired the old employees, but everyone thinks of it as IPL and Blizzard seems to have attempted to at least present the same public personalities instead of subbing in their own or re-organizing.
Blizzard did not "effectively buy" IPL, they only hired their old employees. And no one I know thinks of it as 'IPL'. There is no way in hell that this is Blizzard responsibility, legally or not. IGN is the company that ran IPL, they are the ones on the hook. It isn't Blizzard's job to pay out in case the tournament doesn't. That would be an awful precedent.
[/QUOTE]
Yes but imo they are morally responsible for it. They are the ones who licensed IPL without verifying if IPL would pay.
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Pretty sad that this prize money hasnt been paid yet
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
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On August 12 2013 05:47 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Yes but imo they are morally responsible for it. They are the ones who licensed IPL without verifying if IPL would pay.
There is no such thing as moral responsibility in business. IGN is the company that fucked this up and they are the ones responsible. I don't understand why you think that just because Blizzard picked up IPL employees makes them responsible for another companie's failures.
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I agree that Blizzard shouldn't give licenses to tournaments unless they can verify that they will pay out the prizes in a timely manner(3 months max).
Unfortunately It's probably never going to happen because esports money is fake half the time.
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+ Show Spoiler +[QUOTE] On August 12 2013 05:52 BlackPanther wrote:[QUOTE] On August 12 2013 05:47 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 12 2013 05:46 BlackPanther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 05:39 rasnj wrote:On August 12 2013 05:08 Ace Frehley wrote:On August 12 2013 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
imo blizzard should just fork over the cash.
what is it ? 75 ? 100k?? petty change to prevent your brand from being damaged like that...
then turn around and sue IGN if its possible.
this is not good publicity. Even if the responsability of paying the guys is IGN's, the tourney was ran with a blizz product. That would set a terrible precedent. Should they pay the http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Campus_Party_Europe too? According to Snute, they didn't pay everyone, either Blizzard effectively bought IPL. Legally they may just have hired the old employees, but everyone thinks of it as IPL and Blizzard seems to have attempted to at least present the same public personalities instead of subbing in their own or re-organizing. Blizzard did not "effectively buy" IPL, they only hired their old employees. And no one I know thinks of it as 'IPL'. There is no way in hell that this is Blizzard responsibility, legally or not. IGN is the company that ran IPL, they are the ones on the hook. It isn't Blizzard's job to pay out in case the tournament doesn't. That would be an awful precedent. Yes but imo they are morally responsible for it. They are the ones who licensed IPL without verifying if IPL would pay.
[quote]There is no such thing as moral responsibility in business. IGN is the company that fucked this up and they are the ones responsible. I don't understand why you think that just because Blizzard picked up IPL employees makes them responsible for another companie's failures.
looks like you dont understand my point.
Im not saying they gotta pay because they hired keven knocke. I say they gotta pay because they gave them a license without verifying the financial state of IPL.
No moral responsability in business?? lol remember me not to ever do business with you.
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Blizzard shouldn't have to pay out the prize, but it would be a good PR move by them. Would make them look good after the stuff they have done lately
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On August 12 2013 05:55 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
looks like you dont understand my point.
Im not saying they gotta pay because they hired keven knocke. I say they gotta pay because they gave them a license without verifying the financial state of IPL.
No moral responsability in business?? lol remember me not to ever do business with you.
The moment you start trying to be the nice guy is the moment you start losing money. You are a fool to think that you should act as such in business.
And no, Blizzard is not responsible according to the tournament contract.
"You agree that you shall defend, indemnify and hold harmless Blizzard, and its affiliated companies (including, without limitation, Blizzard) and their respective employees, directors and officers from and against any and all expenses, judgments, awards, fines, and fees (including reasonable attorneys’ fees) solely with respect to any third party claims or actions brought against them which claims or actions arise out of the Tournament or any breach or alleged breach of any of Your representations, warranties or obligations hereunder. The obligations described in this section shall survive the termination or expiration of this Agreement."
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its not about being nice. its about doing whats right and sustainability.
No wonder why esports is not taken seriously as a business.
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On August 12 2013 05:46 BlackPanther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 05:39 rasnj wrote:On August 12 2013 05:08 Ace Frehley wrote:On August 12 2013 05:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
imo blizzard should just fork over the cash.
what is it ? 75 ? 100k?? petty change to prevent your brand from being damaged like that...
then turn around and sue IGN if its possible.
this is not good publicity. Even if the responsability of paying the guys is IGN's, the tourney was ran with a blizz product. That would set a terrible precedent. Should they pay the http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Campus_Party_Europe too? According to Snute, they didn't pay everyone, either Blizzard effectively bought IPL. Legally they may just have hired the old employees, but everyone thinks of it as IPL and Blizzard seems to have attempted to at least present the same public personalities instead of subbing in their own or re-organizing. Blizzard did not "effectively buy" IPL, they only hired their old employees. And no one I know thinks of it as 'IPL'. There is no way in hell that this is Blizzard responsibility, legally or not. IGN is the company that ran IPL, they are the ones on the hook. It isn't Blizzard's job to pay out in case the tournament doesn't. That would be an awful precedent.
The headline on IGN's site read:
Blizzard Buys IGN Pro League Assets
I am in no way saying that they must pay, I don't know how the "acquisition" (or whatever you wish to call it) went down. However if you are a company that depends to a large extent on a community liking you, then sometimes it is a smart idea to do something nice for the community even if you could get around it technically.
As I said in my earlier post I would prefer if Blizzard performed some kind of screening process for tournament organizers, but in the case of IPL I feel their best option is to just pay out the 80k or whatever relatively small sum is missing.
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On August 12 2013 06:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
its not about being nice. its about doing whats right and sustainability.
Honoring contracts is right and sustainable, not paying out for other's fuck ups. Blizzard paying out has the potential to fuck up the scene even more because then financially unstable tournaments would just let Blizzard cover the prize pool costs.
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IPL has always had something rotten with it
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On August 12 2013 06:02 BlackPanther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 06:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
its not about being nice. its about doing whats right and sustainability.
Honoring contracts is right and sustainable, not paying out for other's fuck ups. Blizzard paying out has the potential to fuck up the scene even more because then financially unstable tournaments would just let Blizzard cover the prize pool costs.
Ideally Blizzard wouldn't let companies that can't pay out in a reasonable time frame run tournaments at all. But if they did that we probably wouldn't have any tournaments left. But IF they could guarantee that then this one time they had to do something would be a good PR move for their company and the amount of money is next to nothing for them.
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On August 12 2013 06:02 BlackPanther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 06:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
its not about being nice. its about doing whats right and sustainability.
Honoring contracts is right and sustainable, not paying out for other's fuck ups. Blizzard paying out has the potential to fuck up the scene even more because then financially unstable tournaments would just let Blizzard cover the prize pool costs.
dude you are cherry picking my arguments.
I said blizzard should pay for those fuck ups and set a higher standard to hand out licenses in the future.
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The debt/money owed should have shown up on IPL's balance sheet as a liability when Blizzard bought IPL. Thus, Blizzard would be responsible for the debt. If IPL did not disclose the debt for whatever reason, which is a silly assumption, then it would be on IPL for fraud or misrepresentation.
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On August 12 2013 05:57 DrPandaPhD wrote:
Blizzard shouldn't have to pay out the prize, but it would be a good PR move by them. Would make them look good after the stuff they have done lately
completely agree. Being a pro gamer isn't a very lucrative career choice and these players should be given what they earned. I mean what kind of money are we talking about here? 22K? Quite frankly, that's chump change to blizzard. They could probably just deduct it from the taxes as well...
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On August 12 2013 06:01 rasnj wrote:The headline on IGN's site read: Blizzard Buys IGN Pro League AssetsI am in no way saying that they must pay, I don't know how the "acquisition" (or whatever you wish to call it) went down.
its a biased source trying to avoid paying prize winners. Of course they are going to make this kind of claim on their own web site.
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On August 12 2013 06:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 06:02 BlackPanther wrote:On August 12 2013 06:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
its not about being nice. its about doing whats right and sustainability.
Honoring contracts is right and sustainable, not paying out for other's fuck ups. Blizzard paying out has the potential to fuck up the scene even more because then financially unstable tournaments would just let Blizzard cover the prize pool costs. dude you are cherry picking my arguments. I said blizzard should pay for those fuck ups and set a higher standard to hand out licenses in the future.
And I'm saying Blizzard shouldn't pay. IGN should.
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On August 12 2013 04:50 Mirhi wrote:
Hey guys. IGN / Ziff Davis is responsible for paying out these players. While I still worked at Blizzard I was trying to follow up on this as much as possible, but as I no longer work for Blizzard, I don't know who is handling this. I know many players, including the ones featured in this thread, followed up with me many times.
I followed up with Ziff Davis / IGN many times, but they were very slow or dodged responsibility.
The best course of action in getting these people paid is contacting Ziff Davis repeatedly / Internet justice by bringing attention to it. (Though please be professional and polite)
EDIT: I should add they HAVE paid out some players, but not others. Why this is, I do not really know. But for sure they have been very slow / tried to get it to go away.
I feel like this needs to be put in the OP, to clear up any confusion about who owns the debts.
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EPT
