EPTThe Importance of APM - Page 7
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26223 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 17 2013 18:34 Wombat_NI wrote: True, incidentally the Diamond guy a few posts back with 55 APM I'd love to see you play sometime. Never encountered anyone with sub-70 APM since HoTS, quite intrigued! I encountered a diamond meching T a month or two back who beat me with 50 apm  | ||
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mihajovics
179 Posts
YES it definitely could be a catchy sales pitch that fascinates people... | ||
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malaan
365 Posts
I've played vs GM players with average APM's, who have much better strategic management. Speed is important to a degree, for lets say macroing properly whilst defending or pushing an attack. I remember a game a while back where I lost to a GM zerg who had >100 APM while mine was 200. He was simply better at making decisions than me. | ||
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xokati
Poland33 Posts
Single battle from protoss perspective needs few important decisions - good storm/good FF or focus fire for immortals. You can do alot more, but those 20% of all clicks gives a 80% of benefit. Another 80% of clicks makes 20%. Day[9] said one day that its alot more important how you enter the battle than how you micro during the battle. I must agree. | ||
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Senshin
Netherlands115 Posts
I know babyknight has a fairly low apm and still beating alot of higher apm players.. It's in real impossible for a human to make a real 300-400 actions in a second and also need to think about strategy and placement etc. I know alot (pro) players click like 1 million times and I am sure 1 click is enough to bring your units there (example). Maybe of the 300-400 APM there stays behind like 100-200 apm effective apm, really doing something. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On June 17 2013 19:06 malaan wrote: Decision making >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> APM I've played vs GM players with average APM's, who have much better strategic management. Speed is important to a degree, for lets say macroing properly whilst defending or pushing an attack. I remember a game a while back where I lost to a GM zerg who had >100 APM while mine was 200. He was simply better at making decisions than me. I think that's a bit ridiculous, as all these decisions are really just muscle memory. That is literally all they are. Positioning after a certain read, counterattacking, upgrade order, all of these things are muscle memory... You lost because you were making poor decisions, sure...or maybe you lost because you executed poorly very quickly, and he executed confidently and precisely. Decision making is such a broad fucking term...what does it encapsulate? Muscle memory (response speed)... Read response (muscle memory)... Understanding what you're seeing (read response)... Psychological forces... I just think it's wrong to say decision making trumps speed to such a degree. On an even playing field, where you had formulated the proper muscle memory responses, understood what you were seeing...you would have won. Personally, though, I think the only race that really rewards multi-tasking at this point is Terran. Sort of depressing...well actually, really depressing. But hey, that's how the game is designed. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
99% of my losses comes from bad scouting or making bad decisions. APM hardly affect me at all, especially since most high APM players waste much of their APM on useless actions. Scouting, decision making and macro decides games, not speed. It is possible that speed matters a bit more on the pro level, but even there 95% of the games are decided by who makes the best decisions. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19299 Posts
On June 17 2013 20:02 MockHamill wrote: I play Terran at low Master level with 55 APM. Most of my opponents have 2-3 times my APM. Them being faster than me hardly matters at all. 99% of my losses comes from bad scouting or making bad decisions. APM hardly affect me at all, especially since most high APM players waste much of their APM on useless actions. Scouting, decision making and macro decides games, not speed. It is possible that speed matters a bit more on the pro level, but even there 95% of the games are decided by who makes the best decisions. That just makes me sad. In SCBW and WC3 55 apm is like doing absolutely nothing. In WC3 just controlling a hero takes 55 apm. 55 apm means you actually have 5 seconds every minute that you just sit around. So every 5 minutes you've had 25 seconds worth of break time. 200 APM needs to mean so much more in SC2. This is why people like Bisu aren't winning GSLs. | ||
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ElBlanco
Australia140 Posts
On June 17 2013 20:17 BisuDagger wrote: That just makes me sad. In SCBW and WC3 55 apm is like doing absolutely nothing. In WC3 just controlling a hero takes 55 apm. 55 apm means you actually have 5 seconds every minute that you just sit around. So every 5 minutes you've had 25 seconds worth of break time. 200 APM needs to mean so much more in SC2. This is why people like Bisu aren't winning GSLs. This is nothing more than an excuse. Just because you don't need APM at a low level doesn't mean it has no impact at a high level.Bisu is losing because of bad strategies and bad play. Plenty of high level players from all races are showing the benefits of having high APM and good multitasking. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
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FetTerBender
Germany1393 Posts
On June 17 2013 18:34 Wombat_NI wrote: True, incidentally the Diamond guy a few posts back with 55 APM I'd love to see you play sometime. Never encountered anyone with sub-70 APM since HoTS, quite intrigued! Im around 60 - 65 APM and in Diamond 1on1 with random. If you are interested, most of my replays go to ggtracker.com | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19299 Posts
On June 17 2013 20:27 ElBlanco wrote: This is nothing more than an excuse. Just because you don't need APM at a low level doesn't mean it has no impact at a high level.Bisu is losing because of bad strategies and bad play. Plenty of high level players from all races are showing the benefits of having high APM and good multitasking. I should have left out the last line. It doesn't excuse the fact that in a Real Time Strategy Game you have five seconds of available decision making. Every second should count. And every second deserves action to put yourself ahead of your opponent. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Fiallach
France38 Posts
It's like saying about a pianist " he can type 300 keys per minute". APM bragging is a void and pointless as key speed for pianists, everyone with a decent understanding will laugh at you.Yeah you see a lot of people posting this kind of stuff on you tube, thinking they are great pianist, but it really means nothing. That being said, it's an interesting stat to understand players, and i'm not saying APM is useless, it's certainly a good tool for people who work toward this particular tool, but it's not the only one. Slow players play differently than fast players, but precise player get an edge, so i like when they show APM on streams, it gives me insight on how these players approach the game. | ||
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gh0un
601 Posts
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sabas123
Netherlands3122 Posts
On June 17 2013 20:48 BisuDagger wrote: I should have left out the last line. It doesn't excuse the fact that in a Real Time Strategy Game you have five seconds of available decision making. Every second should count. And every second deserves action to put yourself ahead of your opponent. that is verry true. one thing that is quite diffrent with sc2 and many other rts and bw in particulair is that the timing of certain things are to insignificant, like bisudagger said there is PLENTY time to do anything you like even in crucial moments, while in bw and some other games that totally ISN'T the case. if 1 difiler pops, EVERYTHING switches, the thing with apm and sc2 is that there is to much time between tides changing drasticly, which is why apm becouse significant less important. | ||
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Bunn
Estonia934 Posts
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Taefox
1533 Posts
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Beyond Magic
Finland130 Posts
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