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Damn if you do, damn if you don't.
First, we demand giving priority to players in the region. When they give priority to inviting local players (2/3 of the spots as someone mentioned above) the obvious consequence is that some good players outside the region will be left out (even if they clearly had better results than some local players).
Second, I can still hear people yelling about the organisers wanting to charge a subscription fee... but then, when some less than serious gamers start filling the spots, we complain about good players being left out.
Furthermore, the cheating and mass Korean participation issues should be addressed as the league evolves from online to offline. This has been clearly their intent from the beginning but is something that has to be done gradually, for the sake of players within the region who don't live close to the venue. Once the league is fully on-site, we shouldn't expect many Koreans moving to the US. And if they do, then they will be choosing to be part of the NA scene, same as DeMuslim who we so strongly defend... all for the betterment of the region (I dear you to find one Spanish football fan who does not like having Messi playing in their league).
Of course in this huge and fast transition mistakes are expected and should be forgiven, as long as they are first acknowledged (as is the case) and then addressed (we will hope, wait and see... and help if we can).
This community if filled with reasonable people but there are still many who jump from hype to depression, from heroes to villains, all in the space of days with no middle ground. Be sure to express your concerns and voice your suggestions, but try to first put yourself into the other's shoes, try to understand their reasons... you will see there are no heroes or villains, only humans who can make mistakes and try to fix them with your support.
PS. After a quick read at my own post I realised I'm getting old... so patronising... I'll post it anyway 
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On April 25 2013 14:48 Weirdkid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 14:24 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 14:16 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 14:03 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 14:00 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 13:59 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 13:53 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote:
Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play. Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG? Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked. Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked? If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 + Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players). Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started. If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512. The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes? Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way.
No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer.
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Wow are you fucking serious? No compensation for the Chinese players especially who were completely wronged by this completely retarded "first come first serve basis"? What a joke this is. I'm done with WCS NA.
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I wonder why they even apologize (or whatever that was) after the shit they pulled on china with no moderation to the problem. Really just a bigger slap in the face than saying nothing at all.
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On April 25 2013 14:57 jalen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 14:48 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 14:24 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 14:16 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 14:03 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 14:00 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 13:59 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 13:53 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote:
Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play. Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG? Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked. Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked? If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 + Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players). Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started. If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512. The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes? Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way. No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer.
I'm not arguing with you I'm just trying to explain to you my point of view.
Yes, the rules could definitely be explained clearer, but I do believe that it is clear enough in its current state for people to understand that there will be a total of 512 players in the qualifiers, with 64 spots amongst these 512 spots reserved for invited players.
Regarding your friend, if you really have sufficient evidence to believe that he's one of the first 100 players who registered, then I've got nothing else to say about that.
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At the end of the day im pretty sure it was only 1 of these two that screwed up.
call it gut feeling, but i really dont think they both worked together to make the quals.
Europe's quals were different... so... gut says mlg.
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On April 25 2013 11:00 ch33psh33p wrote:
How can they still justify inviting people like Hellokitty over Demuslim?
Are they seriously saying, they looked at the results of those two players, and came to a conclusion that somehow Hellokitty had more sucess in 2012?
They invited 16NA players and 8 others. Demuslim would have been invited as one of the 8 others and all of 8 invited players were considered to be more accomplished players
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"The extent to which this happened was a little higher than expected"
-_-
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IMO Demuslim really hasn't proven to be one of the best players around recently. Other than a lot of streaming, what tournament results has he had?
Besides, if he really was that good, shouldn't he have been able to get in via the qualifiers?
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I hope they don't try to bribe the SC2 community with LAN mode in exchange for forgetting all of this. We will stand firm!
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Blizzard knew that some players from other regions would opt to compete outside their "home," for various reasons. The extent to which this happened was a little higher than expected, but this is likely to normalize over time. Picking up and moving to a different country is a life decision that's not made lightly. That said, we will be monitoring what happens over the course of the year, and will be open to making adjustments if needed
What a bunch of disconnected douchebags.
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On April 25 2013 14:54 Asfer wrote:
Damn if you do, damn if you don't.
First, we demand ...
Don't go talking for everyone. At least I didn't sign my name in the demands list. You should say "some of us demand".
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There are too many NA seeds to begin with. WCS NA might be the name, but by getting rid of the national championships WCS NA also needs to accommodate China, SEA, South America, etc. Why were South Americans included among the NA invites when the SEA invite was not? Why was the runner-up to WCS Mexico given a seed, but the winners of WCS Australia/China given nothing?
The explanation regarding the Chinese is also lacking. Yes, Edison screwed up with registration, but that doesn't excuse MLG for neglecting Chinese/SEA players to begin with.
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For people who think that Demuslim should have been picked over a player like Hellokitty: The latter was invited as one of 16 players from the Americas. Demuslim could only "apply" for one of the eight non American spots. To be considered for one of these spots they looked at results from 2012, specifically WCS 2012 results. I think Demuslim should have applied for a spot in WCS EU. I presume he would have been one of the 16(!) invites.
Comm however didn't have his "own" WCS to pick. Not only that; He is the 2012 China champion. How can he not be one of the 8 non American invites? He should have been picked over, for instance, Snute, who also could have applied for a spot in the European tournament.
These are questions that I'd like to be answered. By people who don't act like they're running for office.
Blizzard/ MLG; Please try to make an effort to correct some of the mistakes made regarding the Chinese players. For them, for us (they are good and adding them surely raises chances of not just Koreans taking all the top spots) and for yourselves (Chinese market/ viewers).
Comm should have been directly invited but I understand that you can't just give him a spot now so either have him play his match vs Apocalypse or at the very least change his DQ into just a loss so that he's in the top 40 of the challenger division qualifier.
Edit: 16, not 24 direct invites..
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On April 25 2013 16:01 Dracid wrote:
There are too many NA seeds to begin with. WCS NA might be the name, but by getting rid of the national championships WCS NA also needs to accommodate China, SEA, South America, etc. Why were South Americans included among the NA invites when the SEA invite was not? Why was the runner-up to WCS Mexico given a seed, but the winners of WCS Australia/China given nothing?
The explanation regarding the Chinese is also lacking. Yes, Edison screwed up with registration, but that doesn't excuse MLG for neglecting Chinese/SEA players to begin with.
Uhh to answer some of your questions, it's WCS America, not WCS NA.
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On April 25 2013 09:36 Hexxed wrote:
This is just smoke screening. There was no real meat in their words just two companies trying to avoid blame.
My thoughts exactly. This was a pretty cold, distant response that doesn't address the issues that were brought forward.
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so to get into premier=anyone can do the qualifier but for challenger masters and up? so if i wanted to be a doctor i just need to sign up and if i want to be the receptionist i need a phd? sounds right
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On April 25 2013 09:40 Disco.stu. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 09:33 calippo wrote:On April 25 2013 09:27 nkr wrote:On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote:
Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T. what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating? ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it. edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_(software)Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
In counter-strike 1.6 we rellied on ESL anti-cheat(for Europe i dont know what system ESEA used), which was taking user screenshots at random times.
Vac was unreliable for new cheats or certain modifications, i guess same happens to warden given there are cheaters on ladder.
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On April 25 2013 15:12 Weirdkid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 14:57 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 14:48 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 14:24 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 14:16 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 14:03 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 14:00 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 13:59 jalen wrote:On April 25 2013 13:53 Weirdkid wrote:On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote:
Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play. Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG? Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked. Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked? If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 + Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players). Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started. If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512. The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes? Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way. No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer. I'm not arguing with you I'm just trying to explain to you my point of view. Yes, the rules could definitely be explained clearer, but I do believe that it is clear enough in its current state for people to understand that there will be a total of 512 players in the qualifiers, with 64 spots amongst these 512 spots reserved for invited players. Regarding your friend, if you really have sufficient evidence to believe that he's one of the first 100 players who registered, then I've got nothing else to say about that.
At this point I don't think anyone believes that the rules weren't upheld, but that's not the issue. The piss poor rules are the issue.
Random gold/plat league guys getting a spot in arguably the most important qualifier in SC2 so far, while high profile chinese pro's were excluded, is inexcusable. Having 512 spots for an open WCS America qualifier, even though the EU counterpart had thousands of registrated players, is inexcusable.
MLG or Blizzard hasn't even in the slightest acknowledged any of these issues. They've been busy justifying their actions by saying "see, the rules were upheld". Well, guess what? The rules are the fucking problem in the first place!
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This doesn't answer anything about the problems that plagued WCS NA. They just gave vague reasons, but not solutions on how to not make such mistakes again.
On not giving top players chance to play in qualifier? Oh, because they didn't register earlier enough. Well, that solves the problem of getting the best competition instead of having nobodies competing.
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EPT
