Note: TeamLiquid's interview with iG's manager was done after questions were sent over, and I have asked followups regarding what he said, but nothing back on that. I was given only a limited amount of questions, but I don't think there is much else more that will be said.
Why was Evil Geniuses’ Benjamin “DeMusliM” Baker not invited to either the North America or European WCS? Additionally, was there any discussion of disqualifying DeMusliM due to his revealing tweets of results at the end of the tournament?
Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe. In the end, DeMusliM didn't perform well enough in 2012 competitions to receive a seed. He's been competing fantastically well on ladder and we hope to see him compete up through Challenger level and perhaps get to Premier League through that route. As for questions about a DQ, there was no discussion about disqualifying DeMusliM for anything he said on Twitter.
Eight Korean players qualified through WCS America, seemingly the opposite of the intended approach of these qualifiers to begin with. Is this considered a problem right now? What can be done to rectify this?
The stated goals of the WCS were to identify the world's best StarCraft II player through a unified, global structure that also prevents scheduling conflicts between major tournaments. The unified point system was also there to create a storyline for viewers that is easy to understand and establishes meaning from one event to another. Finally, we wanted to maintain players' freedom to compete where they wish. This is a system with a predictable schedule where players could choose where to compete within the system, and have the freedom to compete in tournaments outside the system as well.
Blizzard knew that some players from other regions would opt to compete outside their "home," for various reasons. The extent to which this happened was a little higher than expected, but this is likely to normalize over time. Picking up and moving to a different country is a life decision that's not made lightly. That said, we will be monitoring what happens over the course of the year, and will be open to making adjustments if needed.
I don't agree with those reasons stated about not seeding demuslim. Did hello kitty really accomplish more than him? I mean, nothing against him, but the two aren't very comparable.
at least we are getting some kind of response.
Edit: regarding China: didn't they already show that chinese players registered before several korean players who were admitted? These reasons are really disappointing, and some of them don't even address things that have already been said. Blizzard and MLG are being really, really evasive about some questions and it's seriously hurting them.
Some invitees - Goswser, Hellokitty, and Capoch. Demuslim has made it through 2? I think NASLs, and while he didn't place as highly as these players in their respective WCS tourneys (Goswser hasn't even made one! All he did was beat MVP in iron squid 2, which is a fantastic result. But it isn't anything more difficult than what Demuslim has done), the tournaments he has participated in are all arguably significantly more difficult. They just screwed up, plain and simple. I'm not taking anything away from anybody, but the notion that he "didn't perform well enough in 2012" is stupid. He went 7-1 in a group with MMA, Sen, Finale, and Stephano in NASL S4, 3-0'd Sen, and lost 2-3 to Violet (who got second btw). He made it to the playoffs in NASL S2 and S3 as well iirc.
Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what (major) game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
The extent to which this happened was a little higher than expected, but this is likely to normalize over time. Picking up and moving to a different country is a life decision that's not made lightly.
A little higher than expected? lmao Give me a frigging break. Besides that, they don't necessarily have to move there to compete. They can fly in for the LAN stuff. I wonder what other golden nuggets I'm going to find when I read the entire interview. I rather hear about any affirmative action they will be taking to correct their wrongdoings. Just finished reading your article Rob. A lot shorter than I expected and it left me wanting more. ~_~
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
On April 25 2013 09:38 Dexington wrote: Ah, good thing they got more accomplished players such as Capoch, Hellokitty and Fenix instead of Demuslim in that case.
But he wasn't competing against them for the spot, he was competing against Sen, Snute, + Koreans. If Demu could get an "American" invite just because he lives in the US, then every single Code B korean could just move there as well and get the spot seeing as they have better achivements than Demuslims Ro8 loser bracket finish at MLG
but they don't use warden in the way of kill them with fire as soon as spotted but more in the way of lets watch for a long period of time and ban in big waves.
So wait, what did you do? Ask them questions then smash the answers together? That's not how an interview works. It's really rather confusing - I don't know who said what, and I don't know who to smack in the face with my virtual e-peen.
I've never been in this situation before. I'm angry at either MLG or Blizzard, but I don't know who because the interview was formatted so incorrectly.
On April 25 2013 09:38 Dexington wrote: Ah, good thing they got more accomplished players such as Capoch, Hellokitty and Fenix instead of Demuslim in that case.
But he wasn't competing against them for the spot, he was competing against Sen, Snute, + Koreans. If Demu could get an "American" invite just because he lives in the US, then every single Code B korean could just move there as well and get the spot seeing as they have better achivements than Demuslims Ro8 loser bracket finish at MLG
I don't think most of the Code B Koreans have any results actually, since all they do is stay in Korea in code B. You're also ignoring Demuslim's IEM and NASL performances.
On April 25 2013 09:45 Mauldo wrote: So wait, what did you do? Ask them questions then smash the answers together? That's not how an interview works. It's really rather confusing - I don't know who said what, and I don't know who to smack in the face with my virtual e-peen.
I've never been in this situation before. I'm angry at either MLG or Blizzard, but I don't know who because the interview was formatted so incorrectly.
Ah, to clarify, the answers were jointly answered by both Blizzard and MLG at the same time, answers given as representatives from the companies, no specific person involved.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
I know about Warden, i also know people that has been botting in diablo 3 since the first bot came out. They are still playing on the same account to this day. What does that say about warden? its complete shit. Everytime warden updates you can download a new bot a few hours later that is 100% safe. I complained about a company that has so much money not trying harder to stop cheating in their games, maybe you call that rage but i dont agree with that. edit: What i am trying to say here is basiclly that Blizzard could do so much more about hacks then they currently are doing.
On April 25 2013 09:45 Cayn wrote: but they don't use warden in the way of kill them with fire as soon as spotted but more in the way of lets watch for a long period of time and ban in big waves.
Yeah, as I understand it, if Warden detects anything weird, it flags you, and then at some point after that, could be months after, blizzard bans everyone that is flagged. Maybe now they'll just check tournament players before the first game is played to see if they have been flagged by Warden, and if so, they will just not allow them to play. They said they're working on something, who knows what that might be. But to say they don't care about hacking or that they are years behind other organizations in their anti-hacking policy, is just ignorant.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
I think it's clear that after this year, they intend to move more of the WCS offline over time.
There were multiple issues regarding the Chinese players including iG's Hui "Comm" Shen being disqualified late in the tournament, and several players not getting into the brackets. What exactly happened here? Will anything be done to accommodate the Chinese players in this qualifier?
First off, we want to apologize for any miscommunication and confusion related to the Chinese players and the qualifier. Players that were unable to participate in the first qualifier and those that were beaten by competitors who were disqualified now have the opportunity to compete in the Open Qualifier for Challenger League that will take place on Saturday, April 27. Registration will open on Thursday, April 25 at 5 p.m. ET online.
Related to the first qualifier, within the current tournament system, entry is on a first–come, first-served basis, and the first 512 players were admitted. The Chinese players (including Comm) unfortunately registered later than others which placed them back in the cue. Admins confirmed they had checked in, not that they were confirmed in the tournament itself. When it was revealed that Comm had gone on to play using another player's account, which is a rules violation, he was disqualified.
This kind of answer annoys me. An apology followed by a summary of the "current tournament system" while it's the tournament system itself that caused the problems and this is what they should apologize for. Like: "We obviously should have had more/ bigger qualifiers or at least have the higher skilled players prioritized over the lower ones. This should not have happened, we apologize." Geez. A journalist should not be satisfied with this either and should ask follow up questions.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
You will later?
You only need to be there temporarily when you're playing your Offline matches, no need to actually live there longterm. It's like flying in to compete in a small tournament.
On April 25 2013 09:45 Cayn wrote: but they don't use warden in the way of kill them with fire as soon as spotted but more in the way of lets watch for a long period of time and ban in big waves.
Yeah, as I understand it, if Warden detects anything weird, it flags you, and then at some point after that, could be months after, blizzard bans everyone that is flagged. Maybe now they'll just check tournament players before the first game is played to see if they have been flagged by Warden, and if so, they will just not allow them to play. They said they're working on something, who knows what that might be. But to say they don't care about hacking or that they are years behind other organizations in their anti-hacking policy, is just ignorant.
So if it takes them 6-12 months to ban those flagged people we should be ok with that?. I dont see what stops them from having dedicated people to go thru those logs of flagged people on a daily basis and make the process faster.
On April 25 2013 09:38 Dexington wrote: Ah, good thing they got more accomplished players such as Capoch, Hellokitty and Fenix instead of Demuslim in that case.
But he wasn't competing against them for the spot, he was competing against Sen, Snute, + Koreans. If Demu could get an "American" invite just because he lives in the US, then every single Code B korean could just move there as well and get the spot seeing as they have better achivements than Demuslims Ro8 loser bracket finish at MLG
I don't think most of the Code B Koreans have any results actually, since all they do is stay in Korea in code B. You're also ignoring Demuslim's IEM and NASL performances.
Ignoring the Demu vs Sen, Snute + Koreans issue, do you still think Demuslim has better results than Puzzle, Ganzi, Jjakji, Monster, Genius, Inca, Bisu, Top, to name a few?
There were multiple issues regarding the Chinese players including iG's Hui "Comm" Shen being disqualified late in the tournament, and several players not getting into the brackets. What exactly happened here? Will anything be done to accommodate the Chinese players in this qualifier?
First off, we want to apologize for any miscommunication and confusion related to the Chinese players and the qualifier. Players that were unable to participate in the first qualifier and those that were beaten by competitors who were disqualified now have the opportunity to compete in the Open Qualifier for Challenger League that will take place on Saturday, April 27. Registration will open on Thursday, April 25 at 5 p.m. ET online.
Related to the first qualifier, within the current tournament system, entry is on a first–come, first-served basis, and the first 512 players were admitted. The Chinese players (including Comm) unfortunately registered later than others which placed them back in the cue. Admins confirmed they had checked in, not that they were confirmed in the tournament itself. When it was revealed that Comm had gone on to play using another player's account, which is a rules violation, he was disqualified.
This kind of answer annoys me. An apology followed by a summary of the "current tournament system" while it's the tournament system itself that caused the problems and this is what they should apologize for. Like: "We obviously should have had more/ bigger qualifiers or at least have the higher skilled players prioritized over the lower ones. This should not have happened, we apologize." Geez. A journalist should not be satisfied with this either and should ask follow up questions.
Their "answer" about the chinese players is complete bullshit. They pretty much just said "Yeah the chinese got screwed by our lousy preparation and handling of the situation so now they can go to the other qualifier and get screwed over again"
Yeah they're just skirting around the actual issues.
The Chinese players deserved a shot at Code S and never got to even try. Allowing them entry to the Code A QUALIFIERS doesn't make up for this error. There is no leniency regarding their decision to disqualify Comm and they seem to have no intent whatsoever to actually revisit this issue. DeMuslim clearly deserved a seed in WCS America's Code S, and results-wise there are a few invites to Code S that didn't really seem to make as much sense compared to getting DeMuslim in there.
MLG and Blizzard are just doing the bare minimum, and I am very disappointed in them. I'll just stick to GSL then thanks.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
I think it's clear that after this year, they intend to move more of the WCS offline over time.
Horrible answers and with that I will not be watching any wcs america. I wasn't going to be the biggest watcher either way but I was interested in the story of it and watched quite a bit of wcs america code s qualifier. They clearly have no intention of addressing the chinese issue correctly so I will not support their product.
And really I do not care THAT much about the issues but for them to go out of their ways to do the bare minimum and to give repeated answers that can be summarized as "get off my back" they do not deserve viewers.
Shit ass answer for the demuslim mistake... I'll make the "mistake" not to tune in until he actually makes it there. He's pretty much the best foreigner in NA right now.... what a shame. My time is more valuable than watching some of the invited players play.
somewhat silly if u compare wcs eu and wcs na both get pitchforked after premier qualifier one of them steps it up really hard the other one just excuses into next stupid decisions.
I'd like to chalk all this up to first year growing pains, but you'd think with the developer directly involved things would have been planned out a bit sooner and more thoroughly. This whole WCS thing seems like a very rushed version of something that could have been really awesome, and hopefully will turn out that way.
I dont get why comm didnt get a seed IF they are using the " didn't perform well enough in 2012 competitions to receive a seed." ??? and com'on DeMusliM may not have had amazing results, but most people know hes sooo good! Amazing on the ladder, an amazing player in and outside the game in terms of mindset and he played so well in the qualifiers! Such a shame
On April 25 2013 10:27 oneofthem wrote: nice unified structure with this incredibly well run MLG as your only qualifying tournament for half the world.
Yup. I really feel like MLG is this terribly poorly run utility, say a cable provider or something, but they are the only one and you have to deal with them regardless of how terrible they run things. They can screw up over and over and nothing will happen because they are the only 'show in town' ...
I don't get why so many people are so mad about the Demuslim situation, I understand he is a fan favorite and I also understand there are people you can make this same arguement about that were invited but he really hasnt done anything to justify an invite from event placings...
The amount of bullshit coming out of this person's mouth regarding inviting hello kitty, goswser, and capoch. ALSO THEOGNIS AND MINIGUN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SMOKING!@?!?!?!?! I want him to straight up list the reasons why minigun is invited. His ability to beat idra and NO ONE ELSE, doesn't qualify him over demuslim. Who has competed on the world stage, and none of the players listed above have EVER played at a level high enough to even qualify for the events He's played in...........
Its all a smoke screen where they just forgot about him, so they decided to invite sub par NA players so they could be knocked out in the first round by koreans they didn't "expect (again, more bullshit. Its projectile bullshit at this point) to join.
What a disappointing tourney.
seriously. inviting minigun over demuslim. You need to be on some special kind of crack to accept that at even a CURSORY glance.......
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Like who?
go ask iG.edison
plenty of that has to speculation, but more relevant is that there were probably plenty enough joe american gold players (or up to low master) that played or signed up and things like WCS china champion doesn't get a slot for a qualifier for a WCS event.
On April 25 2013 11:00 ch33psh33p wrote: How can they still justify inviting people like Hellokitty over Demuslim?
Are they seriously saying, they looked at the results of those two players, and came to a conclusion that somehow Hellokitty had more sucess in 2012?
THIs. I already posted above. I'm not even a demuslim fan and have never watched his stream. But the bullshit, it's an endless torrent that simply will not cease.
people would pray to a pantheon of gods to halt the oncoming tide and stench of such a downpour of feces being drooled on them from above.
On April 25 2013 11:00 ch33psh33p wrote: How can they still justify inviting people like Hellokitty over Demuslim?
Are they seriously saying, they looked at the results of those two players, and came to a conclusion that somehow Hellokitty had more sucess in 2012?
THIs. I already posted above. I'm not even a demuslim fan and have never watched his stream. But the bullshit, it's an endless torrent that simply will not cease.
people would pray to a pantheon of gods to halt the oncoming tide and stench of such a downpour of feces being drooled on them from above.
Hellokitty is American, Demuslim is not.
Demuslim would have to be compared to some of the non-American seeds like Snute and Nestea.
On April 25 2013 11:00 ch33psh33p wrote: How can they still justify inviting people like Hellokitty over Demuslim?
Are they seriously saying, they looked at the results of those two players, and came to a conclusion that somehow Hellokitty had more sucess in 2012?
THIs. I already posted above. I'm not even a demuslim fan and have never watched his stream. But the bullshit, it's an endless torrent that simply will not cease.
people would pray to a pantheon of gods to halt the oncoming tide and stench of such a downpour of feces being drooled on them from above.
Hellokitty is American, Demuslim is not.
Demuslim would have to be compared to some of the non-American seeds like Snute and Nestea.
sooo inviting a player who lives in NA, but isn't american means he shouldn't be invited over Hellokitty? At least polt lives in the US. Nestea and Snute do not live in the US, so I dunno why they would be compared to him at all. Snute should stay in europe and Nestea in Korea, makes more sense for the WCS NA.
He lives in NA, and should thusly, be given an invite as such.
On April 25 2013 11:00 ch33psh33p wrote: How can they still justify inviting people like Hellokitty over Demuslim?
Are they seriously saying, they looked at the results of those two players, and came to a conclusion that somehow Hellokitty had more sucess in 2012?
THIs. I already posted above. I'm not even a demuslim fan and have never watched his stream. But the bullshit, it's an endless torrent that simply will not cease.
people would pray to a pantheon of gods to halt the oncoming tide and stench of such a downpour of feces being drooled on them from above.
Hellokitty is American, Demuslim is not.
Demuslim would have to be compared to some of the non-American seeds like Snute and Nestea.
sooo inviting a player who lives in NA, but isn't american means he shouldn't be invited over Hellokitty? At least polt lives in the US. Nestea and Snute do not live in the US, so I dunno why they would be compared to him at all. Snute should stay in europe and Nestea in Korea, makes more sense for the WCS NA.
He lives in NA, and should thusly, be given an invite as such.
66.6% of seeds were given to Citizens of a country in the Americas
33.3% of seeds were given to people not native to the American continents
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Like who?
go ask iG.edison
plenty of that has to speculation, but more relevant is that there were probably plenty enough joe american gold players (or up to low master) that played or signed up and things like WCS china champion doesn't get a slot for a qualifier for a WCS event.
WCS China champion should have a direct invite, seriously. Blizzard is very dumb not to force more support towards the Chinese scene, because the potential for them and for esport is really big if Chinese start picking up starcraft 2 more.
But when they move wcs online, there will be an un relocation and... blargh. People will adapt to the system put before them, and MLG should have been aware of that.
hmm well at least they admitted the fault about the Chinese incident but honestly, I don't think they can do much regarding it. They can't just decide to remove people from Code S to seed them in or reduce WCS NA to give them another chance. Unfortunately, it's too late so ya, challenger league for them then but I'm sure they'll be able to make it if Comm got so close to qualifying before he was DQ'd.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what (major) game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
Valve.
There's no maphacks for Dota 2 because unit locations are stored server-side.
I'm probably as big of a DeMusliM fan as anybody, but I think I can understand where him not getting a seed comes from. Purely based on results, considering we have to compare him to the eight international seeds, let's do a quick rundown of those eight players' recent accomplishments:
Ryung: GSL Code S Ro4, multiple Code A appearances, GSTL performance HerO: GSL Code S Ro8, multiple Code A appearances, Proleague performance, Dreamhack Winter champion, NASL 4 champion Nestea: GSL Code S Ro32, multiple Code A appearances Polt: GSL Code S Ro16, IPL 5 3rd place, NASL 4 3rd place viOLet: IPL 5 2nd place, NASL 4 2nd place Snute: HSC VI champion, Dreamhack Winter Ro8 Sen: WCS Global Finals 4th place mOOnGLaDe: WCS Oceania champion, WCS Australia champion
When you consider these results, DeMu only really can hold a candle to mOOnGLaDe and Sen, unfortunately, and they're largely there to represent underrepresented regions (on top of being very good players). DeMu's accomplishments of Ro8 at NASL 4 and 2nd in the WCS UK aren't up to scratch, as much as I would like them to be.
Blizzard called Demuslim a ladder hero basically. They are jerks. Maybe they have had some MIT graduates make a system near to the Aligulac where it shows how good players are and Demu didn't quite make the cut. Who knows, I feel he deserves a casting job for WCS NA so he can get something for the FANS though.
I also wonder how much shit he gets for his name, people don't like religious elements in their games, perhaps people wouldn't pick on him if he was named DeGamer, just a thought.
On April 25 2013 13:47 DeathProfessor wrote: Blizzard called Demuslim a ladder hero basically. They are jerks. Maybe they have had some MIT graduates make a system near to the Aligulac where it shows how good players are and Demu didn't quite make the cut. Who knows, I feel he deserves a casting job for WCS NA so he can get something for the FANS though.
I also wonder how much shit he gets for his name, people don't like religious elements in their games, perhaps people wouldn't pick on him if he was named DeGamer, just a thought.
LOL，that what i thought for a long time, wtf is that name..
There were multiple issues regarding the Chinese players including iG's Hui "Comm" Shen being disqualified late in the tournament, and several players not getting into the brackets. What exactly happened here? Will anything be done to accommodate the Chinese players in this qualifier?
First off, we want to apologize for any miscommunication and confusion related to the Chinese players and the qualifier. Players that were unable to participate in the first qualifier and those that were beaten by competitors who were disqualified now have the opportunity to compete in the Open Qualifier for Challenger League that will take place on Saturday, April 27. Registration will open on Thursday, April 25 at 5 p.m. ET online.
Related to the first qualifier, within the current tournament system, entry is on a first–come, first-served basis, and the first 512 players were admitted. The Chinese players (including Comm) unfortunately registered later than others which placed them back in the cue. Admins confirmed they had checked in, not that they were confirmed in the tournament itself. When it was revealed that Comm had gone on to play using another player's account, which is a rules violation, he was disqualified.
This kind of answer annoys me. An apology followed by a summary of the "current tournament system" while it's the tournament system itself that caused the problems and this is what they should apologize for. Like: "We obviously should have had more/ bigger qualifiers or at least have the higher skilled players prioritized over the lower ones. This should not have happened, we apologize." Geez. A journalist should not be satisfied with this either and should ask follow up questions.
You have to realize we have journalists like news stations have journalists who ask a president questions...it's always only pre approved soft balls. At least so long as you want exclusive 1 on 1 interviews with developers and leagues. If he went off script and asked truly hard questions and called them out on bullshit he'd never get the exclusives again. Which in turn could lead to the journalist losing their paycheck, who is going to risk that?
The only way we get real in depth journalism is for someone who is independently wealthy to be the one to take up the cause of doing true journalism. That or someone funded by an organization who is willing to strain relationships with devs / leagues to do true journalism.
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG?
Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.
Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG?
Question:
1. Did these players of the so-called 64 invites by MLG receive notification ahead of time that they would be able to participate in the tournament?
2. If so, what was the criteria of these 64 invites?
3. Is there even a list of these 64 invites existing before hand?
These are very good questions that MLG should probably answer. I'm not aware of any list of the 64 invites (based on the information on this forum). I very vaguely remember seeing something in this forum that wrote about one of the criteria being the player's team (i.e. they'd invite players from teams that had attended MLG before or something like that). Memory about this is very vague though, coz I only gave it a cursory glance. Also not sure about how reliable the post was.
I don't know. I just feel like explaining this particular incident of the late registering Koreans by saying it's due to invites makes more sense than saying MLG is trying to screw over the Chinese players and kicking them out just to make way for the Korean players that registered later.
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG?
Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.
Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started.
On April 25 2013 09:24 Alryk wrote: I don't agree with those reasons stated about not seeding demuslim. Did hello kitty really accomplish more than him? I mean, nothing against him, but the two aren't very comparable.
at least we are getting some kind of response.
Edit: regarding China: didn't they already show that chinese players registered before several korean players who were admitted? These reasons are really disappointing, and some of them don't even address things that have already been said. Blizzard and MLG are being really, really evasive about some questions and it's seriously hurting them.
Some invitees - Goswser, Hellokitty, and Capoch. Demuslim has made it through 2? I think NASLs, and while he didn't place as highly as these players in their respective WCS tourneys (Goswser hasn't even made one! All he did was beat MVP in iron squid 2, which is a fantastic result. But it isn't anything more difficult than what Demuslim has done), the tournaments he has participated in are all arguably significantly more difficult. They just screwed up, plain and simple. I'm not taking anything away from anybody, but the notion that he "didn't perform well enough in 2012" is stupid. He went 7-1 in a group with MMA, Sen, Finale, and Stephano in NASL S4, 3-0'd Sen, and lost 2-3 to Violet (who got second btw). He made it to the playoffs in NASL S2 and S3 as well iirc.
they are NOT in the same issue (hellokitty and demuslim) why no one read the god damn thing there was i dont know 24 ? americans and demuslim as far as i know is no, and then 8 foreign slots. the foreign slots went to nestea, moonglade, sen, snute and few other koreans
all of them did better 2012, moonglade foreign rank 1 atm etc etc, so you have to see demuslim vs this 8 and demuslim did NOTHING compared to them, he is a monster but he didnt SHOW it so far last year
On April 25 2013 14:33 jiberish wrote: What a piss poor response. So many of the invited people are far worse than demuslim.
For all the people complaining about DeMuslim not getting a spot... I am sure all the young kids and silver level SC2 players were shocked by a rank 1 GM NA not getting selected ... however ... if you look at the tournament results for DeMuslim over the last 2 years, it is very very bad. You will easily understand and agree with WCS' choice in not giving him a direct spot. Doing it online is one thing, but doing it on LAN is where he has failed time and time again.
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG?
Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.
Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started.
If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512.
The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes?
Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way.
On April 25 2013 14:40 ladytr0n wrote: For all the people complaining about DeMuslim not getting a spot... I am sure all the young kids and silver level SC2 players were shocked by a rank 1 GM NA not getting selected ... however ... if you look at the tournament results for DeMuslim over the last 2 years, it is very very bad. You will easily understand and agree with WCS' choice in not giving him a direct spot. Doing it online is one thing, but doing it on LAN is where he has failed time and time again.
Agree, ranking in NA server doesn't tell anything. We can see IG.macsed, Polt got 90% winning ratio at NA server, but they are not No.1 Ranking on the ladder..
First, we demand giving priority to players in the region. When they give priority to inviting local players (2/3 of the spots as someone mentioned above) the obvious consequence is that some good players outside the region will be left out (even if they clearly had better results than some local players).
Second, I can still hear people yelling about the organisers wanting to charge a subscription fee... but then, when some less than serious gamers start filling the spots, we complain about good players being left out.
Furthermore, the cheating and mass Korean participation issues should be addressed as the league evolves from online to offline. This has been clearly their intent from the beginning but is something that has to be done gradually, for the sake of players within the region who don't live close to the venue. Once the league is fully on-site, we shouldn't expect many Koreans moving to the US. And if they do, then they will be choosing to be part of the NA scene, same as DeMuslim who we so strongly defend... all for the betterment of the region (I dear you to find one Spanish football fan who does not like having Messi playing in their league).
Of course in this huge and fast transition mistakes are expected and should be forgiven, as long as they are first acknowledged (as is the case) and then addressed (we will hope, wait and see... and help if we can).
This community if filled with reasonable people but there are still many who jump from hype to depression, from heroes to villains, all in the space of days with no middle ground. Be sure to express your concerns and voice your suggestions, but try to first put yourself into the other's shoes, try to understand their reasons... you will see there are no heroes or villains, only humans who can make mistakes and try to fix them with your support.
PS. After a quick read at my own post I realised I'm getting old... so patronising... I'll post it anyway
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG?
Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.
Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started.
If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512.
The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes?
Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way.
No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer.
Wow are you fucking serious? No compensation for the Chinese players especially who were completely wronged by this completely retarded "first come first serve basis"? What a joke this is. I'm done with WCS NA.
I wonder why they even apologize (or whatever that was) after the shit they pulled on china with no moderation to the problem. Really just a bigger slap in the face than saying nothing at all.
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG?
Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.
Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started.
If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512.
The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes?
Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way.
No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer.
I'm not arguing with you I'm just trying to explain to you my point of view.
Yes, the rules could definitely be explained clearer, but I do believe that it is clear enough in its current state for people to understand that there will be a total of 512 players in the qualifiers, with 64 spots amongst these 512 spots reserved for invited players.
Regarding your friend, if you really have sufficient evidence to believe that he's one of the first 100 players who registered, then I've got nothing else to say about that.
At the end of the day im pretty sure it was only 1 of these two that screwed up. call it gut feeling, but i really dont think they both worked together to make the quals. Europe's quals were different... so... gut says mlg.
On April 25 2013 11:00 ch33psh33p wrote: How can they still justify inviting people like Hellokitty over Demuslim?
Are they seriously saying, they looked at the results of those two players, and came to a conclusion that somehow Hellokitty had more sucess in 2012?
They invited 16NA players and 8 others. Demuslim would have been invited as one of the 8 others and all of 8 invited players were considered to be more accomplished players
Blizzard knew that some players from other regions would opt to compete outside their "home," for various reasons. The extent to which this happened was a little higher than expected, but this is likely to normalize over time. Picking up and moving to a different country is a life decision that's not made lightly. That said, we will be monitoring what happens over the course of the year, and will be open to making adjustments if needed
There are too many NA seeds to begin with. WCS NA might be the name, but by getting rid of the national championships WCS NA also needs to accommodate China, SEA, South America, etc. Why were South Americans included among the NA invites when the SEA invite was not? Why was the runner-up to WCS Mexico given a seed, but the winners of WCS Australia/China given nothing?
The explanation regarding the Chinese is also lacking. Yes, Edison screwed up with registration, but that doesn't excuse MLG for neglecting Chinese/SEA players to begin with.
For people who think that Demuslim should have been picked over a player like Hellokitty: The latter was invited as one of 16 players from the Americas. Demuslim could only "apply" for one of the eight non American spots. To be considered for one of these spots they looked at results from 2012, specifically WCS 2012 results. I think Demuslim should have applied for a spot in WCS EU. I presume he would have been one of the 16(!) invites. Comm however didn't have his "own" WCS to pick. Not only that; He is the 2012 China champion. How can he not be one of the 8 non American invites? He should have been picked over, for instance, Snute, who also could have applied for a spot in the European tournament.
These are questions that I'd like to be answered. By people who don't act like they're running for office.
Blizzard/ MLG; Please try to make an effort to correct some of the mistakes made regarding the Chinese players. For them, for us (they are good and adding them surely raises chances of not just Koreans taking all the top spots) and for yourselves (Chinese market/ viewers).
Comm should have been directly invited but I understand that you can't just give him a spot now so either have him play his match vs Apocalypse or at the very least change his DQ into just a loss so that he's in the top 40 of the challenger division qualifier.
On April 25 2013 16:01 Dracid wrote: There are too many NA seeds to begin with. WCS NA might be the name, but by getting rid of the national championships WCS NA also needs to accommodate China, SEA, South America, etc. Why were South Americans included among the NA invites when the SEA invite was not? Why was the runner-up to WCS Mexico given a seed, but the winners of WCS Australia/China given nothing?
The explanation regarding the Chinese is also lacking. Yes, Edison screwed up with registration, but that doesn't excuse MLG for neglecting Chinese/SEA players to begin with.
Uhh to answer some of your questions, it's WCS America, not WCS NA.
so to get into premier=anyone can do the qualifier but for challenger masters and up? so if i wanted to be a doctor i just need to sign up and if i want to be the receptionist i need a phd? sounds right
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
In counter-strike 1.6 we rellied on ESL anti-cheat(for Europe i dont know what system ESEA used), which was taking user screenshots at random times.
Vac was unreliable for new cheats or certain modifications, i guess same happens to warden given there are cheaters on ladder.
On April 25 2013 10:02 illidanx wrote: Still no answer why some Korean players registered after the Chinese players could still play.
Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG?
Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.
Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started.
If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512.
The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes?
Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way.
No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer.
I'm not arguing with you I'm just trying to explain to you my point of view.
Yes, the rules could definitely be explained clearer, but I do believe that it is clear enough in its current state for people to understand that there will be a total of 512 players in the qualifiers, with 64 spots amongst these 512 spots reserved for invited players.
Regarding your friend, if you really have sufficient evidence to believe that he's one of the first 100 players who registered, then I've got nothing else to say about that.
At this point I don't think anyone believes that the rules weren't upheld, but that's not the issue. The piss poor rules are the issue.
Random gold/plat league guys getting a spot in arguably the most important qualifier in SC2 so far, while high profile chinese pro's were excluded, is inexcusable. Having 512 spots for an open WCS America qualifier, even though the EU counterpart had thousands of registrated players, is inexcusable.
MLG or Blizzard hasn't even in the slightest acknowledged any of these issues. They've been busy justifying their actions by saying "see, the rules were upheld". Well, guess what? The rules are the fucking problem in the first place!
This doesn't answer anything about the problems that plagued WCS NA. They just gave vague reasons, but not solutions on how to not make such mistakes again.
On not giving top players chance to play in qualifier? Oh, because they didn't register earlier enough. Well, that solves the problem of getting the best competition instead of having nobodies competing.
I don't think MLG deserved the wcs contract, should've given it to NASL Not letting the chinese players in seems like a vendetta of some sort to me, honestly.
also, lets compare kitty and demu a bit here
Demuslim: 2nd Samsung European Encounter €800 2nd 2012 World Championship Series: United Kingdom Nationals $3,000 + Paid (Demuslim really didn't perform well in wcs nono)
Hellokitty AGL-August Invitational 4th place which was low enough that he didn't even win any money for it (500$ tourney)
They did acknowledge issues and give potential solutions for two things: the "players below masters entering qualifiers" (limited acknowledgement on this one though) and "maphacking/cheating in WCS qualifiers" problems.
Hm, the information in the interview somehow contradicts with the statement of Edison, where Koreans who signed up later were admitted before the Chinese players who signed up earlier... can we have some kind of update on that...?
Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe. In the end, DeMusliM didn't perform well enough in 2012 competitions to receive a seed. He's been competing fantastically well on ladder and we hope to see him compete up through Challenger level and perhaps get to Premier League through that route.
LOL. So HelloKitty Maker Fenix Vibe Illusion Major State Minigun Capoch all did better than DeMuslim ? >.< Fkn Blizzard, they balls up and just make stupid excuses, and the people interviewing them have the shittest questions for them!
I love the way they are palming it all off and thinking that it still is going "well" it's just stupid. I could of organized this better >.<
On April 25 2013 16:48 JustPassingBy wrote: Hm, the information in the interview somehow contradicts with the statement of Edison, where Koreans who signed up later were admitted before the Chinese players who signed up earlier... can we have some kind of update on that...?
Doesn't contradict anything. The Koreans were seeded into the qualifiers because they have EG backing, the Chinese players were given nothing because who gives a fuck about Chinese players?
On April 25 2013 16:47 Rossing wrote: I don't think MLG deserved the wcs contract, should've given it to NASL Not letting the chinese players in seems like a vendetta of some sort to me, honestly.
also, lets compare kitty and demu a bit here
Demuslim: 2nd Samsung European Encounter €800 2nd 2012 World Championship Series: United Kingdom Nationals $3,000 + Paid (Demuslim really didn't perform well in wcs nono)
Hellokitty AGL-August Invitational 4th place which was low enough that he didn't even win any money for it (500$ tourney)
So really, come on man should've invited demu
The point is, he wasnt being compared with the American, but with the foreign invites, who all have outperformed him in 2012.
On April 25 2013 16:47 Rossing wrote: also, lets compare kitty and demu a bit here
Demuslim: 2nd Samsung European Encounter €800 2nd 2012 World Championship Series: United Kingdom Nationals $3,000 + Paid (Demuslim really didn't perform well in wcs nono)
Hellokitty AGL-August Invitational 4th place which was low enough that he didn't even win any money for it (500$ tourney)
So really, come on man
Demuslim: Not a citizen of the Americas, so competes for one of eight spots reserved for "outsiders", including some top Koreans.
Hellokitty: American, so competes for one of sixteen spots reserved for citizens of the Americas.
Why Hellokitty got in and Demuslim didn't is perfectly understandable given that they announced this 16 / 8 split between locals and outsiders in advance.
On April 25 2013 16:47 Rossing wrote: also, lets compare kitty and demu a bit here
Demuslim: 2nd Samsung European Encounter €800 2nd 2012 World Championship Series: United Kingdom Nationals $3,000 + Paid (Demuslim really didn't perform well in wcs nono)
Hellokitty AGL-August Invitational 4th place which was low enough that he didn't even win any money for it (500$ tourney)
So really, come on man
Demuslim: Not a citizen of the Americas, so competes for one of eight spots reserved for "outsiders", including some top Koreans.
Hellokitty: American, so competes for one of sixteen spots reserved for citizens of the Americas.
Why Hellokitty got in and Demuslim didn't is perfectly understandable given that they announced this 16 / 8 split between locals and outsiders in advance.
yea i think a lot of people are forgetting that demuslim wasn't competing for an american only spot. If they start making exceptions with people belonging to whatever region it would be a big mess.
These people still comparing Demuslim to Hellokitty are kind of annoying... That particular issue was explained like a million times already, and in light of that explanation, Demuslim shouldn't have gotten an invite, although I initially thought he should have (and wrote here about it). That issue is now a complete red herring while there are a ton of other issues that pretty much weren't addressed at all.
That is also understandable to an extent, because there really is nothing that can be done now to amend the mess that happened. The players that qualified sort of deserve their spots because they won a lot of games and stuff. Some people were potentially "cheated out" of a real chance (probably very very few people, maybe Comm + 2-3 people) due to not being able to register, being eliminated by a hacker or a later DQ-d player, but nothing really can be done about that at this time. So, we really shouldn't expect more than an apology. If they're doing another qualifier for code A, then the real damage that was done is not that huge...
On April 25 2013 14:54 Asfer wrote: Damn if you do, damn if you don't.
First, we demand ...
Don't go talking for everyone. At least I didn't sign my name in the demands list. You should say "some of us demand".
Fair enough, but please don't take my post literally. I just took some liberties to illustrate how "some of us" can be unfair when we don't take the time to see the issues from another's perspective.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
I think it's clear that after this year, they intend to move more of the WCS offline over time.
So he dodged the question about Comm, and didn't talk about the issue of Chinese participants being given confirmation of their participation or the Korean players who signed up later being given priority in the bracket.
On April 25 2013 16:47 Rossing wrote: also, lets compare kitty and demu a bit here
Demuslim: 2nd Samsung European Encounter €800 2nd 2012 World Championship Series: United Kingdom Nationals $3,000 + Paid (Demuslim really didn't perform well in wcs nono)
Hellokitty AGL-August Invitational 4th place which was low enough that he didn't even win any money for it (500$ tourney)
So really, come on man
Demuslim: Not a citizen of the Americas, so competes for one of eight spots reserved for "outsiders", including some top Koreans.
Hellokitty: American, so competes for one of sixteen spots reserved for citizens of the Americas.
Why Hellokitty got in and Demuslim didn't is perfectly understandable given that they announced this 16 / 8 split between locals and outsiders in advance.
Comm: 1st WCS China 2012 $6000 13th-16th WCS Asia 2012 $800
Why didn't either of these two get seeds over Hellokitty? WCS KR requires you to be there in person (on top of being hilariously more difficult than any other region), and latency means WCS EU is out of the question. That leaves WCS America for the SEA/China regions, and yet they only get two "outsider" seeds to Sen and Moonglade. How do you really justify seeding players like Maker, Capoch, theognis, State, etc. who have very few accomplishments in 2012 over WCS national winners? That the national winners don't even get a seed into the qualifiers is just embarrassing.
pretty bad interview. generic answers and no follow up questions when MLG/blizzard gave unsatisfying answers.
at least in demuslim and comm's case asking further for clarification would be really helpfull. now we have more statements without content. you really let them get away with such a sentence?
When it was revealed that Comm had gone on to play using another player's account, which is a rules violation, he was disqualified.
also i'd like to know who anserwered which question or at least who was answering for both companys.
edit: they're bending the truth quite a lot:
...now have the opportunity to compete in the Open Qualifier for Challenger League...
it's a qualifier for the invite only qualifier. the statement as it stands is just wrong.
Didn't explain why some of the Korean players who registered later got into the qualifier whilst others are not. Confirming someone has been "checked-in" and assuring them then saying too many had "checked-in" and only early check-ins were allowed is such bs and is really unfair to those who diligently followed up on their status. Premier League qualifiers should have been limited to Masters-GM, at least now they'll limit the Challenger League qualifers lol.
Anyway given this is the first time I think we should all move on and forgive MLG but they better not fuck up again.
Yes the qualifier was terribad, but there's no need to beat a dead horse now. People have the chance to still qualify and now restrictions are in place (masters / grandmasters only). Now the only thing that needs to be done is make the "Open" qualifier really an open qualifier and not restricting it to 512 players
On April 25 2013 13:53 Weirdkid wrote: [quote] Because those Korean players in question were probably invites by MLG?
Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.
Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started.
If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512.
The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes?
Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way.
No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer.
I'm not arguing with you I'm just trying to explain to you my point of view.
Yes, the rules could definitely be explained clearer, but I do believe that it is clear enough in its current state for people to understand that there will be a total of 512 players in the qualifiers, with 64 spots amongst these 512 spots reserved for invited players.
Regarding your friend, if you really have sufficient evidence to believe that he's one of the first 100 players who registered, then I've got nothing else to say about that.
At this point I don't think anyone believes that the rules weren't upheld, but that's not the issue. The piss poor rules are the issue.
Random gold/plat league guys getting a spot in arguably the most important qualifier in SC2 so far, while high profile chinese pro's were excluded, is inexcusable. Having 512 spots for an open WCS America qualifier, even though the EU counterpart had thousands of registrated players, is inexcusable.
MLG or Blizzard hasn't even in the slightest acknowledged any of these issues. They've been busy justifying their actions by saying "see, the rules were upheld". Well, guess what? The rules are the fucking problem in the first place!
You only read my last comment without looking at the conversation history didn't you..?
I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS. I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system.
On April 25 2013 17:49 jaydee81 wrote: I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS. I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system.
So am I to an extend, but let's face it. As Europeans we aren't part of the target audience anyways, so it doesn't really matter, the games will be broad-casted like middle of the night in our time.
On April 25 2013 17:49 jaydee81 wrote: I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS. I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system.
Yup. Why even have "regional" qualifiers if you're gonna let everyone register for them?
On April 25 2013 17:49 jaydee81 wrote: I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS. I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system.
Yup. Why even have "regional" qualifiers if you're gonna let everyone register for them?
Who claimed that the qualifiers were regional? It was called "NA" because it played on the NA server...
On April 25 2013 13:59 jalen wrote: [quote] Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.
Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started.
If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512.
The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes?
Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way.
No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer.
I'm not arguing with you I'm just trying to explain to you my point of view.
Yes, the rules could definitely be explained clearer, but I do believe that it is clear enough in its current state for people to understand that there will be a total of 512 players in the qualifiers, with 64 spots amongst these 512 spots reserved for invited players.
Regarding your friend, if you really have sufficient evidence to believe that he's one of the first 100 players who registered, then I've got nothing else to say about that.
At this point I don't think anyone believes that the rules weren't upheld, but that's not the issue. The piss poor rules are the issue.
Random gold/plat league guys getting a spot in arguably the most important qualifier in SC2 so far, while high profile chinese pro's were excluded, is inexcusable. Having 512 spots for an open WCS America qualifier, even though the EU counterpart had thousands of registrated players, is inexcusable.
MLG or Blizzard hasn't even in the slightest acknowledged any of these issues. They've been busy justifying their actions by saying "see, the rules were upheld". Well, guess what? The rules are the fucking problem in the first place!
You only read my last comment without looking at the conversation history didn't you..?
All your posts are about trying to explain the rules. I then claim the enforcing of the rules wasn't the problem, but the rules being awful was the problem.
On April 25 2013 16:48 JustPassingBy wrote: Hm, the information in the interview somehow contradicts with the statement of Edison, where Koreans who signed up later were admitted before the Chinese players who signed up earlier... can we have some kind of update on that...?
Doesn't contradict anything. The Koreans were seeded into the qualifiers because they have EG backing, the Chinese players were given nothing because who gives a fuck about Chinese players?
That is what I was referring to, the interview says nothing about seeds for later players into the tournament...
On April 25 2013 14:00 Weirdkid wrote: [quote] Invited players part of 512 = No one got kicked?
If invited players are part of 512，YES. But they are not. They registered so late, 1000 +
Yes, but being invited and registering early isn't linked. If the player was invited, it means that MLG has already set aside a place within the 512 for them (They did say that 64 slots would be for invited players).
Unfortunately, MLG did not do that. OZ,JYP, alive, lots of koreans register themselves, late. They force MLG have to randomly kicked someone in top 512, which include one of my friend register just one hour after the register time started.
If they have set aside 64 spots for invites, it means they will only take in the first 448 players that are not invited and registered, not 512.
The invited players, when they registered, no matter how late, could then be placed the 64 reserved spots. Yes?
Of course, we don't know exactly who were invited, but I'd say Oz, JYP, alive, would probably be amongst them because of their fame or because of their team. I also don't know if my explanation is what exactly took place, but based on the MLG registration rules, I feel it does seem to be this way.
No, they randomly kicked players they want to kick, not first 448 players. And also they should clearly anounce that we are picking top 448 not 512. What we are arguing here is MLG rule is suck. As i mention before, my friend register just one hour after the registration began (top 100).He is just some random people rank higer master in KR master, GM in NA? not a progamer.
I'm not arguing with you I'm just trying to explain to you my point of view.
Yes, the rules could definitely be explained clearer, but I do believe that it is clear enough in its current state for people to understand that there will be a total of 512 players in the qualifiers, with 64 spots amongst these 512 spots reserved for invited players.
Regarding your friend, if you really have sufficient evidence to believe that he's one of the first 100 players who registered, then I've got nothing else to say about that.
At this point I don't think anyone believes that the rules weren't upheld, but that's not the issue. The piss poor rules are the issue.
Random gold/plat league guys getting a spot in arguably the most important qualifier in SC2 so far, while high profile chinese pro's were excluded, is inexcusable. Having 512 spots for an open WCS America qualifier, even though the EU counterpart had thousands of registrated players, is inexcusable.
MLG or Blizzard hasn't even in the slightest acknowledged any of these issues. They've been busy justifying their actions by saying "see, the rules were upheld". Well, guess what? The rules are the fucking problem in the first place!
You only read my last comment without looking at the conversation history didn't you..?
All your posts are about trying to explain the rules. I then claim the enforcing of the rules wasn't the problem, but the rules being awful was the problem.
What makes you think I didn't read your comments?
Because the person I was talking to was saying stuff like "Invited players + 512 > 512, only 512 player played, Means someone got kicked.", and so it's kinda clear that he might not understand the system with the 64 reserved spots, and so I was explaining it to him.
I like how the response of how the premier league qualifier is a disaster was basically that you can still try and get into the challenger league and that will be better.
Related to the first qualifier, within the current tournament system, entry is on a first–come, first-served basis, and the first 512 players were admitted. The Chinese players (including Comm) unfortunately registered later than others which placed them back in the cue
this part makes me fucking mad already. they made exceptions for koreans that registered late but deny it or what
also lol @ this
The stated goals of the WCS were to identify the world's best StarCraft II player through a unified, global structure that also prevents scheduling conflicts between major tournaments.
+
The WCS America Invite-Only Challenger Qualifier is currently scheduled on the same weekend as DreamHack Stockholm.
On April 25 2013 16:47 Rossing wrote: also, lets compare kitty and demu a bit here
Demuslim: 2nd Samsung European Encounter €800 2nd 2012 World Championship Series: United Kingdom Nationals $3,000 + Paid (Demuslim really didn't perform well in wcs nono)
Hellokitty AGL-August Invitational 4th place which was low enough that he didn't even win any money for it (500$ tourney)
So really, come on man
Demuslim: Not a citizen of the Americas, so competes for one of eight spots reserved for "outsiders", including some top Koreans.
Hellokitty: American, so competes for one of sixteen spots reserved for citizens of the Americas.
Why Hellokitty got in and Demuslim didn't is perfectly understandable given that they announced this 16 / 8 split between locals and outsiders in advance.
Comm: 1st WCS China 2012 $6000 13th-16th WCS Asia 2012 $800
Why didn't either of these two get seeds over Hellokitty? WCS KR requires you to be there in person (on top of being hilariously more difficult than any other region), and latency means WCS EU is out of the question. That leaves WCS America for the SEA/China regions, and yet they only get two "outsider" seeds to Sen and Moonglade. How do you really justify seeding players like Maker, Capoch, theognis, State, etc. who have very few accomplishments in 2012 over WCS national winners? That the national winners don't even get a seed into the qualifiers is just embarrassing.
You are right about Comm and PiG that they should have been directly invited but they shouldn't have been invited over Hellokitty (because he's from the Americas) but over European and Korean invites who can participate in their own regions.
This whole thing about Demuslim is just silly, Blizzard has absolutely no leg to stand on after inviting Snute to NA prem on any argument against the much MUCH more accomplished Demuslim. I'd much more appreciate that MLG came out and admitted they made a mistake but that it's to late to fix now, that would show some real integrity. But what company has any of that these days?
On April 25 2013 18:50 Krogan wrote: This whole thing about Demuslim is just silly, Blizzard has absolutely no leg to stand on after inviting Snute to NA prem on any argument against the much MUCH more accomplished Demuslim. I'd much more appreciate that MLG came out and admitted they made a mistake but that it's to late to fix now, that would show some real integrity. But what company has any of that these days?
Related to the first qualifier, within the current tournament system, entry is on a first–come, first-served basis, and the first 512 players were admitted. The Chinese players (including Comm) unfortunately registered later than others which placed them back in the cue
this part makes me fucking mad already. they made exceptions for koreans that registered late but deny it or what
The stated goals of the WCS were to identify the world's best StarCraft II player through a unified, global structure that also prevents scheduling conflicts between major tournaments.
The WCS America Invite-Only Challenger Qualifier is currently scheduled on the same weekend as DreamHack Stockholm.
Well, pretty much all of the Non-European players playing in DH should be invited already, so no reason for them to participate in the event that clashes with DreamHack.
On April 25 2013 17:49 jaydee81 wrote: I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS. I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system.
Yup. Why even have "regional" qualifiers if you're gonna let everyone register for them?
I agree with this. I want to support Europeans and especially Brits like DeMuslim. Yes I can admire Korean like I can Brazil in soccer. Does not mean I want to ONLY watch Brazil because they are the best, especially over my own country or even continent.
All those players who have been wronged can play in the open qualifiers. Wow thank you so much. It's not like they could have done that anyway. This seems silly. Or am I missing something?
On April 25 2013 19:07 Sjokola wrote: All those players who have been wronged can play in the open qualifiers. Wow thank you so much. It's not like they could have done that anyway. This seems silly. Or am I missing something?
The qualifiers are not open, they are capped at 512 players and the rest can screw themselves again. Though this time, the players that have been screwed last time, will get a seed in this qualifier.
edit: Though what was that about Comm playing in this qualifier-qualifier? Assuming his high finish hasn't become void with his disqualification, he should be invited into the Code A qualifier.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication.
I don't understand why people are still complaining about Demuslim not getting a seed over players like HelloKitty. He is not a citizen of a country in North or South America nor did he play in a WCS NA or SA qualifier last year which MLG stated was used for there NA invite list. Also while it was close his results weren't good enough for the other 8 seeds. Polt and Violet were lumped in the 8 "others" category but I do not see anyone complaining about them living in the US and therefore should of been in the NA section for invites (this could be because they got in). Therefore you have to hold Demuslim to same non NA standard for invites. I am also surprised no is talking about how people who had better WCS NA results were left out such as Fitzy who out placed HelloKitty as one example.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication.
That was totally besides Fade's point. He was a long time WC3 player so I'm pretty sure he knows just as well how and why WC3 died. His point was that Warden was worthless.
Also just to point out, if Blizzard ever caught anyone using 3rd party antihacks (all antihacks are 3rd party), then it's auto banned account. Blizzard has done the opposite of enforcing anti hacks.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication.
That was totally besides Fade's point. He was a long time WC3 player so I'm pretty sure he knows just as well how and why WC3 died. His point was that Warden was worthless.
Also just to point out, if Blizzard ever caught anyone using 3rd party antihacks (all antihacks are 3rd party), then it's auto banned account. Blizzard has done the opposite of enforcing anti hacks.
Yep, their banning in waves system is largely inneffective on stopping hacking. I had a friend who botted on WoW, and he got banned only after 6 months later, with a large ban wave. He already was burned out of the game, so took it as a break till the burning crusade was out, then he bought the game again, the expansion, and was subsrcibed while also botting for 6 months more xD
Of course, from a business stand point i guess it makes sense. Ban waves are good PR, give you money because many of those hackers will get a new account etc.
Imagine on starcraft 2, when the hacker doesn't even care about his characters and the team handling it is probably way more smaller.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
Who gives a stuff about Demuslim because his team don't that's for sure, seriously hes very overrated and has mysteriously improved with the release of HOTS.
When you look at the facts :-
He is not a NA native He has won nothing of note He was knocked out by his own team
EG dont give a stuff about the NA scene otherwise they wouldn't have brought their Koreans Pros into it( the very players that knocked him out ). If they really cared about getting their NA pros into the finals they would not have entered their Korean Pros its as simple as that
This is all about EG chasing after one thing MONEY !!!
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication.
That was totally besides Fade's point. He was a long time WC3 player so I'm pretty sure he knows just as well how and why WC3 died. His point was that Warden was worthless.
Also just to point out, if Blizzard ever caught anyone using 3rd party antihacks (all antihacks are 3rd party), then it's auto banned account. Blizzard has done the opposite of enforcing anti hacks.
sorry just wanted to point out the p2p nature and that it's really easy to hack if you can just manipulate the communication between two clients, like the drophack does when it just sends some corrupt information to make one side bug out of the game. i didn't make a statement regarding warden (which is pretty useless). the anti hacker philosphy was really bad. i remember reminds acc (>10000 wins 80-90% winrate) being banned because of anti hacks. just sad.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
MLG and Blizzard just trying to cast away blame here. DeMusiM did not get invited because they FUCKED UP! On his stream, DeMusliM said that Na thougt EU would invite him and EU thought NA would invite him. They just fucked up and did not have any communication. Saying DeMusliM did not have good enough results is a load of bullshit. There are players who got invited who have literally not ever done a god dam thing. DeMusliM is better than the majority of those invited players.
Really mad right now
After this season when there arent invites anymore, at least half the players in premier league for WCS NA will be korean. And it will be the koreans wining the tournament. They dont have to move here either. They just fly in, win the tournament and take there money, and fly out. Simple as that
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
you mean such as Comm and WCS China? looks still like a random selection.
They should really just make it so that everyone who wants to participate in a region has to be in that region for the games.
What bothers me most is not the mistakes that happened while the qualifier was on. There was a huge scheduling mistake that led to people not being able to play in the EU qualifier 2, too. What bothers me is the fixed size of 512 players. EU had 3 qualifiers for 1024 ppl and 1 with open limit. Yes they didnt have a losers round. Neither does the GSL Challenger qualifier.
Its just funny that the US with a much larger potential playerbase would limit it to 1 10th of the size. If they would've followed along the lines of the ESL, they would've had the possibility to make up to the chinese by letting them in on another qualifier or wouldnt have had the problems in the first place because it being much more open.
In addition, the situation where DQ'ed players knock someone out is much less devastating with multiple qualifiers.
What pissed me of the most though: ESL had what, like 10 streams on? and MLG has the nerve to only stream themselves and hold back games and/or results?
DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
On April 25 2013 22:04 RubiksCube wrote: They should really just make it so that everyone who wants to participate in a region has to be in that region for the games.
What bothers me most is not the mistakes that happened while the qualifier was on. There was a huge scheduling mistake that led to people not being able to play in the EU qualifier 2, too. What bothers me is the fixed size of 512 players. EU had 3 qualifiers for 1024 ppl and 1 with open limit. Yes they didnt have a losers round. Neither does the GSL Challenger qualifier.
Its just funny that the US with a much larger potential playerbase would limit it to 1 10th of the size. If they would've followed along the lines of the ESL, they would've had the possibility to make up to the chinese by letting them in on another qualifier or wouldnt have had the problems in the first place because it being much more open.
In addition, the situation where DQ'ed players knock someone out is much less devastating with multiple qualifiers.
What pissed me of the most though: ESL had what, like 10 streams on? and MLG has the nerve to only stream themselves and hold back games and/or results?
To be fair, ESL has a LOT of restreams that are just different language casts.
The Chinese Players should be given a chance!! Think about it Blizzard, its for everybodys best! And why the hell were the top chinese players not invited to any premier-league?
On April 25 2013 22:04 RubiksCube wrote: They should really just make it so that everyone who wants to participate in a region has to be in that region for the games.
What bothers me most is not the mistakes that happened while the qualifier was on. There was a huge scheduling mistake that led to people not being able to play in the EU qualifier 2, too. What bothers me is the fixed size of 512 players. EU had 3 qualifiers for 1024 ppl and 1 with open limit. Yes they didnt have a losers round. Neither does the GSL Challenger qualifier.
Its just funny that the US with a much larger potential playerbase would limit it to 1 10th of the size. If they would've followed along the lines of the ESL, they would've had the possibility to make up to the chinese by letting them in on another qualifier or wouldnt have had the problems in the first place because it being much more open.
In addition, the situation where DQ'ed players knock someone out is much less devastating with multiple qualifiers.
What pissed me of the most though: ESL had what, like 10 streams on? and MLG has the nerve to only stream themselves and hold back games and/or results?
To be fair, ESL has a LOT of restreams that are just different language casts.
you are talking about WCS EU Premier League, where it's all WCS channels on twitch for different languages. he was talking about the WCS EU qualifiers, where even NASL casted in EU until blizzard intervened and there were many different streams.
On April 25 2013 22:06 MrSourGit wrote: DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit.
Just stop it already. It's not like DeMusliM is the most prominent NA player in terms of results.
Their Demuslim argument is ridiculous. They say all non NA players were Compared equally, and I struggle to see how any south American players were picked Above him.
Not to mention the fact that they are basing their invites off of 2012 which was an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME and does not reflect current skill at all.
This has got to be incredibly frustrating for Demuslim because I know it is frustrating for his fans.
On April 25 2013 22:30 Levernz wrote: And i also don't see Hellokitty going over Ryung & Suppy.
Damn I didn't even think about Suppy. He was the highest placing foreigner at WCS world championship besides Sen. You'd think that would put him over a majority of others.
On April 25 2013 22:44 Treemonkeys wrote: This ewwww too many koreans talk seems really borderline racist to me, I don't understand how it's acceptable to ask Blizzard this.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
On April 25 2013 22:30 Levernz wrote: And i also don't see Hellokitty going over Ryung & Suppy.
Damn I didn't even think about Suppy. He was the highest placing foreigner at WCS world championship besides Sen. You'd think that would put him over a majority of others.
I can agree that Supply shouldn't gave been left out nor should people like Fitzy but saying Ryung makes no sense since he is Korean so he would of been in the other category not the category with HelloKitty so it is stupid to compare the two players.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
Dawg, more well known players are given seeds. HelloKitty became known recently and Maker has been known for quite some time. As for Capoch and State, of course they are well known names too.... DeMusliM is more well known, however he doesn't fit the criteria that the other two players do for those particular seed spots. As for the seed spot that he did qualify for, he was beat out by other better players.
This is something pretty much everyone already knows, stop bringing it up in the topic. The main thing here is that Blizzard/MLG's response is a laughing stock.
They are going to make the Challenger Qualifier Master/GM only, when they fucked up the Premier Qualifier by having it open to even bronzies. I guess that's a good thing, but really?... How could you be so stupid to not do that in the first place.
They don't plan on punishing anyone who broke the official MLG rules of prematurely distributing results. Then they are making a mockery of their own rules and with their broken down system, a broken logic seeps in saying Chinese players should butcher the results they have and replace them with legit results (that can't/won't happen though as it's too late).
As for their plans on the hacking, they never did anything about it in the past even though they promised many times that they would. Why should we believe that they'll make improvements now?
Going to the Chinese ordeal, they talk about upholding the rules and DQing Comm. Absolute bullshit. They pretty much state in this interview that they decide to manipulate any rules they may or may not have in order to skew the results however they please. On top of that, they are reducing the entire Chinese scene to a lower class by only allowing them to participate in the Challenger division (minus TOP and MacSed who legitimately lost in the final round of the qualifier, and should actually have to qualify for the Challenger division). By not giving good players an opportunity to play in the good league, and telling them to be satisfied with playing in the worse league, you're basically telling them that they are of a lower caliber.
Everything about this apology is worthless and rude in nature. It leave us with the same lingering "well I hope they don't fuck up huge next time" that they always leave us. As if it's hard to understand that we as the community get more pissed the more times the fuck us over. =/
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
On April 25 2013 22:06 MrSourGit wrote: DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit.
Just stop it already. It's not like DeMusliM is the most prominent NA player in terms of results.
No, but he is one of the best, if not the best, players in living in NA that isn't Korean. He's the best non-Korean in EG and with Scarlett taking a break I think it's safe to say that for this moment, ignoring history, he is the best non-Korean in NA.
On April 25 2013 22:28 Darkhoarse wrote: Their Demuslim argument is ridiculous. They say all non NA players were Compared equally, and I struggle to see how any south American players were picked Above him.
Not to mention the fact that they are basing their invites off of 2012 which was an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME and does not reflect current skill at all.
This has got to be incredibly frustrating for Demuslim because I know it is frustrating for his fans.
It's WCS America. Not NA, not USA, but the whole continent (or the two continents if you mind it being called that way).
Oh my god, all these Demuslim fanboys are annoying. If you actually read up on how the seeds were chosen, it makes sense that Demuslim was not invited. I like Demuslim just as much as the next guy, but the scandal here is how Comm and the other Chinese players were treated.
On April 25 2013 16:47 Rossing wrote: I don't think MLG deserved the wcs contract, should've given it to NASL Not letting the chinese players in seems like a vendetta of some sort to me, honestly.
also, lets compare kitty and demu a bit here
Demuslim: 2nd Samsung European Encounter €800 2nd 2012 World Championship Series: United Kingdom Nationals $3,000 + Paid (Demuslim really didn't perform well in wcs nono)
Hellokitty AGL-August Invitational 4th place which was low enough that he didn't even win any money for it (500$ tourney)
So really, come on man should've invited demu
Lets try this again. Demuslim is not American player and could have only got into it as part of 8 non-American invites. HelloKitty got in as one of 16 better American players.
So don't compare him to American players, compare him to 8 invited players that are not from America
Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe. In the end, DeMusliM didn't perform well enough in 2012 competitions to receive a seed. He's been competing fantastically well on ladder and we hope to see him compete up through Challenger level and perhaps get to Premier League through that route.
LOL. So HelloKitty Maker Fenix Vibe Illusion Major State Minigun Capoch all did better than DeMuslim ? >.< Fkn Blizzard, they balls up and just make stupid excuses, and the people interviewing them have the shittest questions for them!
I love the way they are palming it all off and thinking that it still is going "well" it's just stupid. I could of organized this better >.<
Lets try this again x2. Demuslim is not American player and could have only got into it as part of 8 non-American invites. HelloKitty and others got in as one of 16 better American players.
So don't compare him to American players, compare him to 8 invited players that are not from America
The first season of something will always have teething issues, people need to be patient. S2 should be a lot better. The responses show they are actually taking things into account rather than just pretending its not there.
On April 25 2013 22:06 MrSourGit wrote: DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit.
Just stop it already. It's not like DeMusliM is the most prominent NA player in terms of results.
No, but he is one of the best, if not the best, players in living in NA that isn't Korean. He's the best non-Korean in EG and with Scarlett taking a break I think it's safe to say that for this moment, ignoring history, he is the best non-Korean in NA.
I'd argue Thorzain is the best non-Korean on EG, but he's not in the Americas so it's somewhat a moot point.
Honestly, if the community had heeded the warnings of many of us 2 years ago and backlashed against the ridiculous invite culture we have with SC2, this would have been avoided. Imagine if we only had 8 invite spots and the other 24 had qualifiers. At worst, we'd have complaints that somebody like Idra got one of the 8 spots, but still plenty of opportunity for the rest to be filled by players we think are good enough. It would have also quelled much of this controversy with hackers and DQs with much more opportunities for slighted players. Hindsight 20/20 though.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Ok, that's a fair point on the Demuslim issue. But I'm still miffed about HelloKitty and TheOgnis and Capoch and Maker because they weren't the highest placing players last time around for WCS. What about Insur and Major and Levin, guys who actually made it to BWC? It's not keeping with the idea of "previous WCS qualifier results." I know Levin has another job and all, but i don't see a reason to leave Insur out of the loop. And that moonglade invite just kind of throws the entire decision to exclude China into another level of curious eyebrow raising
The US qualifiers get shit on a bunch over the EU qualifiers, where only 7 Korean players playing over the span of the week. Only shuttle was a strong tier player, and he got his seed. That's 4 brackets of a ton of players with bottom tier koreans like finale and dragon. Much different than 15 top Koreans playing in a 500 some bracket. Demuslims always got the short end of the stick. He didn't get invited to NASL like season 1/2? Doesn't get alot of international invites even though he's fucking good. Keep up the work man.
What I'm saying is that I think alot of issues were prob not established beforehand. The problems just landed on the NA qualifiers harshly and more harshly than other qualifiers.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
... He's from Argentina (south America) and this is the NA WCS. I don't see how he gets preference over Demu.
On April 26 2013 00:31 Batssa wrote: The US qualifiers get shit on a bunch over the EU qualifiers, where only 7 Korean players playing over the span of the week. Only shuttle was a strong tier player, and he got his seed. That's 4 brackets of a ton of players with bottom tier koreans like finale and dragon. Much different than 15 top Koreans playing in a 500 some bracket. Demuslims always got the short end of the stick. He didn't get invited to NASL like season 1/2? Doesn't get alot of international invites even though he's fucking good. Keep up the work man.
Demuslim is a very good player but I feel that he should have applied for a spot in the WCS EU. 16 eu-only spots in stead of 8 non american (thus some Korean) to "compete"with. Look at the 16 European invites. Demuslim surely would have been given a spot.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
... He's from Argentina (south America) and this is the NA WCS. I don't see how he gets preference over Demu.
The 16 invites were picked from whole of the Americas, not just NA.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote: [quote] After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
... He's from Argentina (south America) and this is the NA WCS. I don't see how he gets preference over Demu.
The 16 invites were picked from whole of the Americas, not just NA.
This begs the question: Why? They are two different continents. Why does South America get included in NA?
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Ok, that's a fair point on the Demuslim issue. But I'm still miffed about HelloKitty and TheOgnis and Capoch and Maker because they weren't the highest placing players last time around for WCS. What about Insur and Major and Levin, guys who actually made it to BWC? It's not keeping with the idea of "previous WCS qualifier results." I know Levin has another job and all, but i don't see a reason to leave Insur out of the loop. And that moonglade invite just kind of throws the entire decision to exclude China into another level of curious eyebrow raising
Maker/kitty/theogins are all well known strong American players with good past results, people on this thread for the most part seem to only follow players from 2012, if you have been following the scene since 2010, you would understand better.
And Theogins is a very smart Brood war terran player, who is very strong in starcraft 2 as well, EG has super exposed players due to EG being EG, so other players not on big teams get overshadowed, even tho they are better players atm.
Demuslim has not had very good results in WOL and just recently been doing good on the LADDER, ladder means nothing, in actual tourneys, there have been far better players then Demuslim, Demuslim is considered euro, and he is not even close to having the results the Euro terrans have had, such as thorzain, who has done wayyy better then Demuslim on eg.
As others mentioned, Demus is considered UK, not USA. I know you guys like to follow his stream, but just because he is a fan fav does not mean he should be seeded over players 10x better then him, like the non Americans who got invited.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote: [quote] After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
I remember when I used to play Warcraft 3 in its heyday, there was a drop hack that was so widely abused I would literally get dropped once every 1-3 games, without fail. They didn't fix the exploit for at least 3-4 months, and even that timeframe is absolutely ridiculous for such a commonly used hack.
On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote: [quote] It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote: [quote] After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote: [quote] And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
Liquipedia just calls it WCS America. But if you want to call it AA than that's fine too.
On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote: [quote] It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote: [quote] And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Ok, that's a fair point on the Demuslim issue. But I'm still miffed about HelloKitty and TheOgnis and Capoch and Maker because they weren't the highest placing players last time around for WCS. What about Insur and Major and Levin, guys who actually made it to BWC? It's not keeping with the idea of "previous WCS qualifier results." I know Levin has another job and all, but i don't see a reason to leave Insur out of the loop. And that moonglade invite just kind of throws the entire decision to exclude China into another level of curious eyebrow raising
Maker/kitty/theogins are all well known strong American players with good past results, people on this thread for the most part seem to only follow players from 2012, if you have been following the scene since 2010, you would understand better.
And Theogins is a very smart Brood war terran player, who is very strong in starcraft 2 as well, EG has super exposed players due to EG being EG, so other players not on big teams get overshadowed, even tho they are better players atm.
Demuslim has not had very good results in WOL and just recently been doing good on the LADDER, ladder means nothing, in actual tourneys, there have been far better players then Demuslim, Demuslim is considered euro, and he is not even close to having the results the Euro terrans have had, such as thorzain, who has done wayyy better then Demuslim on eg.
As others mentioned, Demus is considered UK, not USA. I know you guys like to follow his stream, but just because he is a fan fav does not mean he should be seeded over players 10x better then him, like the non Americans who got invited.
I'm not implying that those guys are bad or don't deserve to be pros or anything like that, but saying that TheOgnis or Maker are better than Major is laughable. I will admit that TheOgnis' ability in Brood War is something I know nothing about, but I do know that Bisu is all the proof you need that they are different games and skill in one doesn't guarantee skill in the other. And we should be looking at 2012 results primarily. Kiwikaki was great in 2010, but that doesn't mean he deserves a seed, you know? And I've given up on the Demuslim point for the most part, sad as it makes me my brain isn't ENTIRELY immune from good persuasive arguments
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league.
I hope you're right about the Demuslim. Damn, why didn't he just apply for the WCS EU; I'm sure he would have been given an invite. I feel he and/ or EG made a huge mistake.
On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote: Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region?
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Ok, that's a fair point on the Demuslim issue. But I'm still miffed about HelloKitty and TheOgnis and Capoch and Maker because they weren't the highest placing players last time around for WCS. What about Insur and Major and Levin, guys who actually made it to BWC? It's not keeping with the idea of "previous WCS qualifier results." I know Levin has another job and all, but i don't see a reason to leave Insur out of the loop. And that moonglade invite just kind of throws the entire decision to exclude China into another level of curious eyebrow raising
Maker/kitty/theogins are all well known strong American players with good past results, people on this thread for the most part seem to only follow players from 2012, if you have been following the scene since 2010, you would understand better.
And Theogins is a very smart Brood war terran player, who is very strong in starcraft 2 as well, EG has super exposed players due to EG being EG, so other players not on big teams get overshadowed, even tho they are better players atm.
Demuslim has not had very good results in WOL and just recently been doing good on the LADDER, ladder means nothing, in actual tourneys, there have been far better players then Demuslim, Demuslim is considered euro, and he is not even close to having the results the Euro terrans have had, such as thorzain, who has done wayyy better then Demuslim on eg.
As others mentioned, Demus is considered UK, not USA. I know you guys like to follow his stream, but just because he is a fan fav does not mean he should be seeded over players 10x better then him, like the non Americans who got invited.
I'm not implying that those guys are bad or don't deserve to be pros or anything like that, but saying that TheOgnis or Maker are better than Major is laughable. I will admit that TheOgnis' ability in Brood War is something I know nothing about, but I do know that Bisu is all the proof you need that they are different games and skill in one doesn't guarantee skill in the other. And we should be looking at 2012 results primarily. Kiwikaki was great in 2010, but that doesn't mean he deserves a seed, you know? And I've given up on the Demuslim point for the most part, sad as it makes me my brain isn't ENTIRELY immune from good persuasive arguments
I didn't read all your posts so maybe you're talking about something else but don't you know that Major is invited?
On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote: [quote] After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Ok, that's a fair point on the Demuslim issue. But I'm still miffed about HelloKitty and TheOgnis and Capoch and Maker because they weren't the highest placing players last time around for WCS. What about Insur and Major and Levin, guys who actually made it to BWC? It's not keeping with the idea of "previous WCS qualifier results." I know Levin has another job and all, but i don't see a reason to leave Insur out of the loop. And that moonglade invite just kind of throws the entire decision to exclude China into another level of curious eyebrow raising
Maker/kitty/theogins are all well known strong American players with good past results, people on this thread for the most part seem to only follow players from 2012, if you have been following the scene since 2010, you would understand better.
And Theogins is a very smart Brood war terran player, who is very strong in starcraft 2 as well, EG has super exposed players due to EG being EG, so other players not on big teams get overshadowed, even tho they are better players atm.
Demuslim has not had very good results in WOL and just recently been doing good on the LADDER, ladder means nothing, in actual tourneys, there have been far better players then Demuslim, Demuslim is considered euro, and he is not even close to having the results the Euro terrans have had, such as thorzain, who has done wayyy better then Demuslim on eg.
As others mentioned, Demus is considered UK, not USA. I know you guys like to follow his stream, but just because he is a fan fav does not mean he should be seeded over players 10x better then him, like the non Americans who got invited.
I'm not implying that those guys are bad or don't deserve to be pros or anything like that, but saying that TheOgnis or Maker are better than Major is laughable. I will admit that TheOgnis' ability in Brood War is something I know nothing about, but I do know that Bisu is all the proof you need that they are different games and skill in one doesn't guarantee skill in the other. And we should be looking at 2012 results primarily. Kiwikaki was great in 2010, but that doesn't mean he deserves a seed, you know? And I've given up on the Demuslim point for the most part, sad as it makes me my brain isn't ENTIRELY immune from good persuasive arguments
I didn't read all your posts so maybe you're talking about something else but don't you know that Major is invited?
Oh, whoops! Dammit, just as I was starting to think i could be coherent without caffeine. ..
On April 25 2013 22:06 MrSourGit wrote: DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit.
Just stop it already. It's not like DeMusliM is the most prominent NA player in terms of results.
Maybe not , I ain't 1 to list then all out for 30 mins of my life , but was it ESL ? Only just lost to violet 3-2 , JUST , got to quarters , only remaining foreigner I think ..... His accolades might not be the best , but fking he'll he should be there , at the momment he is playing so good he is easily 1 of the best foreigners there is lol
No matter what is said , we ALL know a player who can do what he does should be there ..... It can't even be questioned .....
NA and EU clowns up and make up some shit to cover the cracks .... Whilst the viewers lose a fan favourite and a fking good Terran bio micro player .....
Just annoyed a player I rly wanted to see competeing got forgotten coz they can't organise and orgy in Amsterdam ....
On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote: [quote] Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league.
I hope you're right about the Demuslim. Damn, why didn't he just apply for the WCS EU; I'm sure he would have been given an invite. I feel he and/ or EG made a huge mistake.
He probably didn't want to potentially have to move to Europe in order to compete. He probably would have gotten a seed though.
On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote: [quote] And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
Again, check blizzard website if you must. It's WCS America.
It has always been its name, it is how it has been displayed in the several official websites. But to be honest, community/press is doing a piss poor job at that lol (myself included).
And WCS America is correct, you don't need to write WCS All America to understand it's about the whole continent.
On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote: [quote] What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league.
I hope you're right about the Demuslim. Damn, why didn't he just apply for the WCS EU; I'm sure he would have been given an invite. I feel he and/ or EG made a huge mistake.
He probably didn't want to potentially have to move to Europe in order to compete. He probably would have gotten a seed though.
But that's just the thing; Although not ideal, latency between NA - EU servers is not bad. It's better than Korea - NA or SEA - NA.
Edit: And the server too isn't called NA but "Americas". Oh well..
On April 25 2013 22:06 MrSourGit wrote: DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit.
Just stop it already. It's not like DeMusliM is the most prominent NA player in terms of results.
Maybe not , I ain't 1 to list then all out for 30 mins of my life , but was it ESL ? Only just lost to violet 3-2 , JUST , got to quarters , only remaining foreigner I think ..... His accolades might not be the best , but fking he'll he should be there , at the momment he is playing so good he is easily 1 of the best foreigners there is lol
No matter what is said , we ALL know a player who can do what he does should be there ..... It can't even be questioned .....
NA and EU clowns up and make up some shit to cover the cracks .... Whilst the viewers lose a fan favourite and a fking good Terran bio micro player .....
Just annoyed a player I rly wanted to see competeing got forgotten coz they can't organise and orgy in Amsterdam ....
Demuslim is not an American player meaning he is competing for invites with the Koreans and other such guys. He wasn't good enough to get an invite next to them end of story
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS.
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
Again, check blizzard website if you must. It's WCS America.
It has always been its name, it is how it has been displayed in the several official websites. But to be honest, community/press is doing a piss poor job at that lol (myself included).
And WCS America is correct, you don't need to write WCS All America to understand it's about the whole continent.
Just an FYI north and south America are two separate continents not one large continent lol.
On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote: [quote] Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league.
I hope you're right about the Demuslim. Damn, why didn't he just apply for the WCS EU; I'm sure he would have been given an invite. I feel he and/ or EG made a huge mistake.
He's stated on stream that if he left the US, he would have to reapply for a visa, so although he could compete in WCS EU online, he would be unable to attend a live event outside the US until his via issues are resolved.
On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote: [quote] Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
Again, check blizzard website if you must. It's WCS America.
It has always been its name, it is how it has been displayed in the several official websites. But to be honest, community/press is doing a piss poor job at that lol (myself included).
And WCS America is correct, you don't need to write WCS All America to understand it's about the whole continent.
Just an FYI north and south America are two separate continents not one large continent lol.
Don't start that argument, because both answers (1 continent vs 2 continents) are right depending on where you are born and raised practically.
Calling it WCS America, or Americas, is actually the politically correct way to call it for Blizzard.
They state that Chinese players and those knocked out by hackers will be able to Play in the challenger qualifier as if that is a solution. They would have been able to do that anyway!
On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote: [quote] What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
Again, check blizzard website if you must. It's WCS America.
It has always been its name, it is how it has been displayed in the several official websites. But to be honest, community/press is doing a piss poor job at that lol (myself included).
And WCS America is correct, you don't need to write WCS All America to understand it's about the whole continent.
Just an FYI north and south America are two separate continents not one large continent lol.
Don't start that argument, because both answers (1 continent vs 2 continents) are right depending on where you are born and raised practically.
Calling it WCS America, or Americas, is actually the politically correct way to call it for Blizzard.
I'm not saying that south America isn't included in "America or Americas" I'm just saying they Are two continents. That's a geographical fact.
Not tryin to start an argument because frankly it can't really be argued.
This is just ... "sorry you lost to hacker tough luck." "sorry you are progamer but your seed is taken by bronze player tough luck." "sorry we dont like you so we seed in other players who are undeniably less accomplished tough luck."
Some high quality PR right there im speechless. This is just bad joke.
On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote: [quote] Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
Again, check blizzard website if you must. It's WCS America.
It has always been its name, it is how it has been displayed in the several official websites. But to be honest, community/press is doing a piss poor job at that lol (myself included).
And WCS America is correct, you don't need to write WCS All America to understand it's about the whole continent.
Just an FYI north and south America are two separate continents not one large continent lol.
Don't start that argument, because both answers (1 continent vs 2 continents) are right depending on where you are born and raised practically.
Calling it WCS America, or Americas, is actually the politically correct way to call it for Blizzard.
I'm not saying that south America isn't included in "America or Americas" I'm just saying they Are two continents. That's a geographical fact.
Not tryin to start an argument because frankly it can't really be argued.
It can, and you actually have a PM so we don't de-rail this.
On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote: [quote] Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
Again, check blizzard website if you must. It's WCS America.
It has always been its name, it is how it has been displayed in the several official websites. But to be honest, community/press is doing a piss poor job at that lol (myself included).
And WCS America is correct, you don't need to write WCS All America to understand it's about the whole continent.
Just an FYI north and south America are two separate continents not one large continent lol.
Don't start that argument, because both answers (1 continent vs 2 continents) are right depending on where you are born and raised practically.
Calling it WCS America, or Americas, is actually the politically correct way to call it for Blizzard.
I'm not saying that south America isn't included in "America or Americas" I'm just saying they Are two continents. That's a geographical fact.
Not tryin to start an argument because frankly it can't really be argued.
Actually, it's not a "geographical fact" :p depending on which definition you want to use, North and South Americas are sub-continents of one American continent, or two entirely separate continents. It's pretty confusing because virtually everyone considers Europe and Asia to be two distinct continents even though they are less 'separated' than Americas are, but go figure. There aren't really any hard rules that would either of those as a single continent or two separate ones (just like according to some, Australia is a large island rather than a continent).
On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote: I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US?
Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed.
At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that.
This interview doesn't have one ounce of useful information, and didn't show any attitude change from them. It basically says, you teenager nerds knows nothing, let grownups run the business.
On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote: I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US?
Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed.
At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that.
Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years.
On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote: I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US?
Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed.
At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that.
Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years.
Well last year he has won one Premier tournament, one Major and one Minor. Also got second place on three Major events.
Demuslim in the other hand, the last year has won two minor tournaments, and second place on two minor tournaments aswell.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication.
yet sc2 is flooded by hackers :=)
its really not, at high master level its pretty rare to run in to a hacker, like 1 in 20 games probably.
They really goofed their answers to those questions. Damn near all of it was just corporate PR bullshit. When they weren't phrasing things in a really misleading way, they were outright lying or ignoring something.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication.
yet sc2 is flooded by hackers :=)
its really not, at high master level its pretty rare to run in to a hacker, like 1 in 20 games probably.
1 in 20 games to run into hacker is rare? That's very high imo.
So, this is based on 2012 results? I'm wondering why aLive didn't get an invite if that's the case. The guy won one of the most stacked international tournaments last year (IPL4), made it to GSL semifinals, 4th in Iron Squid, played in most 2012 MLG's with decent, but not great results. I thought the invites were based on popularity since Nestea, Crank, Ryung, Moonglade, Sen, Snute were all invited over aLive. Heck, I think Oz also had better results than a couple of those guys.
Also, DeMusliM has been living in the U.S. for almost three years now? I personally think that he should have been eligible for an invite as a NA player.
And MLG continous to make the community angry! Very sad Blizzard didn't give the WCS NA to NASL, imho they are much more capable, and the casters are really good. MLG's casters are so boring in comparison.
Don't think I will tune in to WCS NA. I'm happy with watching WCS EU and GSL, enough good stuff out there, there's no need to watch that poorly produced content imho...
On April 26 2013 03:04 Darkhoarse wrote: Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place.
HotS is two months old and has had two major tournaments in total since it came out. One of the tournaments was an invite only. There aren't really other results to go on and its not like they can just ignore WCS from last year.
On April 26 2013 03:04 Darkhoarse wrote: Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place.
HotS is two months old and has had two major tournaments in total since it came out. One of the tournaments was an invite only. There aren't really other results to go on and its not like they can just ignore WCS from last year.
Frankly, HoTs ladder is more applicable than last years WoL tourney, but using ladder has its drawbacks. I guess I see where blizzard is coming from.
On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote: I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US?
Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed.
At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that.
Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years.
Yes Snute has vastly superior results, he won Homestory Cup and ESET Uk Masters. DeMuslim, 2nd WCS UK, erm can't remember any other Ro4's even.....
Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe.
Why the 24 Americas invites then 8 for other? It should have been 32 invites from anywhere in the world except for EU and Korea (since they have their own regions). Guys from Australia or China, why should they fight witrh Koreans for seeds when they don't get a WCS series? I do not understand why Comm did not get an invite.
These answers from MLG and Blizzard are wholly unsatisfactory. I hope some people from those organisations reads this. It isn't good enough, this tournament is shambolic and shame on you for attempting to fob off the complaints with such a pathetic response.
On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote: [quote] Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league.
I hope you're right about the Demuslim. Damn, why didn't he just apply for the WCS EU; I'm sure he would have been given an invite. I feel he and/ or EG made a huge mistake.
Lowely didn't get an invite to EU with superior results to DeMuslim so don't be so sure....
On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote: [quote] What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim.
Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league.
I hope you're right about the Demuslim. Damn, why didn't he just apply for the WCS EU; I'm sure he would have been given an invite. I feel he and/ or EG made a huge mistake.
Lowely didn't get an invite to EU with superior results to DeMuslim so don't be so sure....
Yeah that was some serious BS if you ask me. Him and Happy should have been invited. I'm glad at least Happy got through the qualifier.
On April 26 2013 03:04 Darkhoarse wrote: Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place.
HotS is two months old and has had two major tournaments in total since it came out. One of the tournaments was an invite only. There aren't really other results to go on and its not like they can just ignore WCS from last year.
Frankly, HoTs ladder is more applicable than last years WoL tourney, but using ladder has its drawbacks. I guess I see where blizzard is coming from.
Imho invites should had never happened in the first place, and everyone should had been forced to play qualifiers to get into premier leagues.
But here we are, argueing about something subjective enough like "who is more deserving an invite".
Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe.
I'm so glad I can blame ALL of them now
I am just glad the Blizzard, ESL and MLG are giving us people to blame until the next set of matches. I don't know if the community could survive without this. We would be so bored.
Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe.
I'm so glad I can blame ALL of them now
I am just glad the Blizzard, ESL and MLG are giving us people to blame until the next set of matches. I don't know if the community could survive without this. We would be so bored.
Blamethrower FG 9000, never fails to sell out, every time.
On April 26 2013 03:04 Darkhoarse wrote: Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place.
HotS is two months old and has had two major tournaments in total since it came out. One of the tournaments was an invite only. There aren't really other results to go on and its not like they can just ignore WCS from last year.
Frankly, HoTs ladder is more applicable than last years WoL tourney, but using ladder has its drawbacks. I guess I see where blizzard is coming from.
Imho invites should had never happened in the first place, and everyone should had been forced to play qualifiers to get into premier leagues.
But here we are, argueing about something subjective enough like "who is more deserving an invite".
While that is the fairest way to go about doing things, it goes without saying that Blizzard did not want to risk even the slimmest chance of their tournament, which is supposed to compete with DreamHack and IEM, to have little starpower and many wildcards/unknown players.
A Stephano or an MMA goes a very, very long way in terms of viewership and hype, even if they haven't been playing at the same phenomenal level we used to expect from them a year ago. Compare that to players like Strelok and Dayshi and Shuttle who have been performing quite well recently, beasting up online tournaments and such. Although their play might be better at this point in time and you may very reasonably argue that they're more deserving to be here, the fact remains that they don't bring a lot of excitement for many viewers. Personally I always love seeing players go on hot streaks, especially when they're not that well known, but many people don't really care. WCS EU obviously don't have cream-of-the-crop PartinG/Life/FlaSh absolute top level players, the very best there is in the world, so they have to have these well-known and loved players (who, don't get me wrong, may well still win it all) otherwise their prestigious league becomes a flop.
On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote: I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US?
Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed.
At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that.
Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years.
Yes Snute has vastly superior results, he won Homestory Cup and ESET Uk Masters. DeMuslim, 2nd WCS UK, erm can't remember any other Ro4's even.....
I still don't think two tournament wins = vastly superior (obviously debatable), especially considering DeMuslim lives in the US and Snute is based in Europe.
I'm not saying Snute doesn't deserve to be seeded somewhere. It just seems really weird he'd be seeded into the NA region tournament and not Europe's, while the guy who actually lives in NA and is the top grandmaster there and has decent results (top 8 NASL, 2nd place WCS UK, 13th-16th WCS EU - which Snute didn't even participate in) doesn't get a seed.
On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote: I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US?
Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed.
At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that.
Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years.
Yes Snute has vastly superior results, he won Homestory Cup and ESET Uk Masters. DeMuslim, 2nd WCS UK, erm can't remember any other Ro4's even.....
I still don't think two tournament wins = vastly superior (obviously debatable), especially considering DeMuslim lives in the US and Snute is based in Europe.
I'm not saying Snute doesn't deserve to be seeded somewhere. It just seems really weird he'd be seeded into the NA region tournament and not Europe's, while the guy who actually lives in NA and is the top grandmaster there and has decent results (top 8 NASL, 2nd place WCS UK, 13th-16th WCS EU - which Snute didn't even participate in) doesn't get a seed.
It isn't debateable of course its vastly superior. Those two wins are more than DeMuslims entire SC2 career achievement wise. It's also more than the majority of foreign programers. I mean what would be superior for you winning Code S??
I do not understand what is weird about Snute getting a seed ahead of DeMuslim. Of all the things wrong with the invites this is what you choose? He didn't get seeded into EU because he chose NA instead. In this regard him and DeMuslim are equal. It doesn't matter that he lives there.
If DeMuslim would be seeded ahead of Snute now that would be ridiculous...
As far as I am concerned, they can invite whoever they want to their tournament. It's their prize money. I wouldn't have any problem if they seeded "crowd favorites," like Catz. They just shouldn't act like it's fair, exclude the Chinese unfairly, and then not respond immediately (halt that portion of the ladder) when they receive very valid complaints that a confirmed cheater is knocking out good players.
And who on Earth wrote the statement including something about the Koreans "packing up and moving?" They do know that there are team houses where Koreans can come and practice for a couple of weeks before a tourney entirely on trade, right?
On April 26 2013 01:49 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm not saying that south America isn't included in "America or Americas" I'm just saying they Are two continents. That's a geographical fact.
Not tryin to start an argument because frankly it can't really be argued.
I think you guys finished this discussion privately not to deviate the thread. I just want to share the following information because I think it would help avoid future arguments.
As a rule of thumb, Spanish speaking countries teach you that America is just one continent with three sub-divisions: North, Central and South America. That's why it is a little bit annoying for us when people just refer to the USA as America. For you Europeans imagine there was a country called "United States of Europe"... Anyway, we have learned to deal with it because after all "America" is part of the country's name (but you will never find a Latin American person who calls USA "America").
In pretty much the rest of the countries you learn that America may refer to either the country (USA) or the Americas, a land mass comprising the two continents of North and South America.
Perhaps "WCS Americas" would be a less ambiguous term for the region. However, at least for now, don't let the name of the region dictate which players should be invited or not. At the moment, the three regions have to accommodate the whole world so they cannot close the door to players whose country is semantically not in one.
On April 25 2013 22:06 MrSourGit wrote: DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit.
Just stop it already. It's not like DeMusliM is the most prominent NA player in terms of results.
No, but he is one of the best, if not the best, players in living in NA that isn't Korean. He's the best non-Korean in EG and with Scarlett taking a break I think it's safe to say that for this moment, ignoring history, he is the best non-Korean in NA.
On April 26 2013 01:49 Darkhoarse wrote: I'm not saying that south America isn't included in "America or Americas" I'm just saying they Are two continents. That's a geographical fact.
Not tryin to start an argument because frankly it can't really be argued.
I think you guys finished this discussion privately not to deviate the thread. I just want to share the following information because I think it would help avoid future arguments.
As a rule of thumb, Spanish speaking countries teach you that America is just one continent with three sub-divisions: North, Central and South America. That's why it is a little bit annoying for us when people just refer to the USA as America. For you Europeans imagine there was a country called "United States of Europe"... Anyway, we have learned to deal with it because after all "America" is part of the country's name (but you will never find a Latin American person who calls USA "America").
In pretty much the rest of the countries you learn that America may refer to either the country (USA) or the Americas, a land mass comprising the two continents of North and South America.
Perhaps "WCS Americas" would be a less ambiguous term for the region. However, at least for now, don't let the name of the region dictate which players should be invited or not. At the moment, the three regions have to accommodate the whole world so they cannot close the door to players whose country is semantically not in one.
Yeah he explained that to me. I honestly had no idea. It's actually pretty interesting that different countries teach that differently. Thank you for explaining though!
So can someone remind me why this interview is posted on TL or even exist to begin with? There's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this interview that we don't already know. Come on now, you can't just do Q&As with a single batch of questions, if you do that, YOU WILL get the most generic answer that answers NOTHING for every single question.
I understand that the first year of implementing something like this is gonna rocky. What they should have done was made it so that all of these qualifiers are done offline exactly like the GSL. This way, you need people to be physically present during every single part of this tournament, not just the main WCS tourny.
On April 26 2013 13:55 AceOfCakez wrote: I understand that the first year of implementing something like this is gonna rocky. What they should have done was made it so that all of these qualifiers are done offline exactly like the GSL. This way, you need people to be physically present during every single part of this tournament, not just the main WCS tourny.
While their ultimate goal is to have a fully offline league, this has to be done gradually. The WCS America league is meant to accommodate players not only from the whole continent but also from other countries which do not currently have a league.
Imagine all the players from South America, Australia, China, etc... having to pay such an expensive trip just for a qualifier in which their chances are not that good. Once they advance further in the tournament then the trip would be more than justified.
In time these players will consider moving to their WCS region of choice and then it will be more reasonable to do it fully offline, but you cannot expect this to happen in a few months.
On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote: Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T.
what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating?
ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage.
Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please.
wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication.
yet sc2 is flooded by hackers :=)
its really not, at high master level its pretty rare to run in to a hacker, like 1 in 20 games probably.
1 in 20 games to run into hacker is rare? That's very high imo.
only 5% hackers would make me very happy. i play low masters (~1100 points) where allmost all the maphackers are stuck. play 10 games in this mmr region and you meet at least 2 allknowing guys for shure.
I think they should spread out te rosters for each region or especially korea, but not allow to play the qaulifiers for another region, but I dont really know, maybe its good to have koreans among EU und NA Qualifier.
On April 27 2013 06:35 JtoK wrote: I think they should spread out te rosters for each region or especially korea, but not allow to play the qaulifiers for another region, but I dont really know, maybe its good to have koreans among EU und NA Qualifier.
Koreans only add to the scene if they live here / compete on NA ladder all the time. Otherwise it's no different then the previous situation where they traveled to all major tournaments and top 8 were Koreans.
Would they have to move if a majority of the tournament moves offline in the future...sure. What I don't think blizzard understands is despite the fact that more offline in the future gurantees less Koreans down the road...It does 100% nothing to help the situation some NA players are in now.
TLDR: Blizzard has miss handled this thing from the start, and now they are paying the price with an overall lack luster tournament going on so far. There is a lot of good reasons why Riot is kicking their butt all over the place in the esports scene right now.
On April 25 2013 17:49 jaydee81 wrote: I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS. I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system.
I think this is my first post that some people actually agree to
On April 25 2013 17:49 jaydee81 wrote: I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS. I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system.
I think this is my first post that some people actually agree to
I understand your point, but i see WCS more as the APT (tennis). They have rankings (like sc2 wcs), play tournaments and have grand slams (wcs-finals). In tennis, they have some national players attending, but also a large portion of really good international players...
EPT
