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On April 26 2013 02:02 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote:
I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US? Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed. At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that.
Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years.
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On April 26 2013 02:13 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:02 Godwrath wrote:On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote:
I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US? Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed. At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that. Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years.
Well last year he has won one Premier tournament, one Major and one Minor. Also got second place on three Major events.
Demuslim in the other hand, the last year has won two minor tournaments, and second place on two minor tournaments aswell.
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On April 25 2013 20:47 teddyoojo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 19:55 fleeze wrote:On April 25 2013 19:50 sCFade wrote:On April 25 2013 09:40 Disco.stu. wrote:On April 25 2013 09:33 calippo wrote:On April 25 2013 09:27 nkr wrote:On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote:
Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T. what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating? ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it. edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_(software)Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage. Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please. wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication. yet sc2 is flooded by hackers :=)
its really not, at high master level its pretty rare to run in to a hacker, like 1 in 20 games probably.
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They really goofed their answers to those questions. Damn near all of it was just corporate PR bullshit. When they weren't phrasing things in a really misleading way, they were outright lying or ignoring something.
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On April 26 2013 02:25 EleanorRIgby wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 20:47 teddyoojo wrote:On April 25 2013 19:55 fleeze wrote:On April 25 2013 19:50 sCFade wrote:On April 25 2013 09:40 Disco.stu. wrote:On April 25 2013 09:33 calippo wrote:On April 25 2013 09:27 nkr wrote:On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote:
Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T. what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating? ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it. edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_(software)Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage. Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please. wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication. yet sc2 is flooded by hackers :=) its really not, at high master level its pretty rare to run in to a hacker, like 1 in 20 games probably.
1 in 20 games to run into hacker is rare? That's very high imo.
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So, this is based on 2012 results? I'm wondering why aLive didn't get an invite if that's the case. The guy won one of the most stacked international tournaments last year (IPL4), made it to GSL semifinals, 4th in Iron Squid, played in most 2012 MLG's with decent, but not great results. I thought the invites were based on popularity since Nestea, Crank, Ryung, Moonglade, Sen, Snute were all invited over aLive. Heck, I think Oz also had better results than a couple of those guys.
Also, DeMusliM has been living in the U.S. for almost three years now? I personally think that he should have been eligible for an invite as a NA player.
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And MLG continous to make the community angry! Very sad Blizzard didn't give the WCS NA to NASL, imho they are much more capable, and the casters are really good. MLG's casters are so boring in comparison.
Don't think I will tune in to WCS NA. I'm happy with watching WCS EU and GSL, enough good stuff out there, there's no need to watch that poorly produced content imho...
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United States23455 Posts
Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place.
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On April 26 2013 03:04 Darkhoarse wrote:
Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place.
HotS is two months old and has had two major tournaments in total since it came out. One of the tournaments was an invite only. There aren't really other results to go on and its not like they can just ignore WCS from last year.
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United States23455 Posts
On April 26 2013 03:09 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 03:04 Darkhoarse wrote:
Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place. HotS is two months old and has had two major tournaments in total since it came out. One of the tournaments was an invite only. There aren't really other results to go on and its not like they can just ignore WCS from last year.
Frankly, HoTs ladder is more applicable than last years WoL tourney, but using ladder has its drawbacks. I guess I see where blizzard is coming from.
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On April 26 2013 02:13 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:02 Godwrath wrote:On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote:
I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US? Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed. At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that. Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years.
Yes Snute has vastly superior results, he won Homestory Cup and ESET Uk Masters. DeMuslim, 2nd WCS UK, erm can't remember any other Ro4's even.....
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United States33509 Posts
Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe.
I'm so glad I can blame ALL of them now
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I suggested in another thread:
Why the 24 Americas invites then 8 for other? It should have been 32 invites from anywhere in the world except for EU and Korea (since they have their own regions). Guys from Australia or China, why should they fight witrh Koreans for seeds when they don't get a WCS series? I do not understand why Comm did not get an invite.
These answers from MLG and Blizzard are wholly unsatisfactory. I hope some people from those organisations reads this. It isn't good enough, this tournament is shambolic and shame on you for attempting to fob off the complaints with such a pathetic response.
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On April 26 2013 01:12 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 01:09 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 26 2013 01:05 Penev wrote:On April 26 2013 01:00 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 26 2013 00:48 Penev wrote:On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:
[quote]
Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-(
And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim.
There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents. It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America. Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused. Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better. Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league. I hope you're right about the Demuslim. Damn, why didn't he just apply for the WCS EU; I'm sure he would have been given an invite. I feel he and/ or EG made a huge mistake.
Lowely didn't get an invite to EU with superior results to DeMuslim so don't be so sure....
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United States23455 Posts
On April 26 2013 03:37 _SpiRaL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 01:12 Penev wrote:On April 26 2013 01:09 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 26 2013 01:05 Penev wrote:On April 26 2013 01:00 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 26 2013 00:48 Penev wrote:On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:
[quote]
What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents. It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America. Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused. Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better. Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league. I hope you're right about the Demuslim. Damn, why didn't he just apply for the WCS EU; I'm sure he would have been given an invite. I feel he and/ or EG made a huge mistake. Lowely didn't get an invite to EU with superior results to DeMuslim so don't be so sure....
Yeah that was some serious BS if you ask me. Him and Happy should have been invited. I'm glad at least Happy got through the qualifier.
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On April 26 2013 03:24 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 03:09 Plansix wrote:On April 26 2013 03:04 Darkhoarse wrote:
Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place. HotS is two months old and has had two major tournaments in total since it came out. One of the tournaments was an invite only. There aren't really other results to go on and its not like they can just ignore WCS from last year. Frankly, HoTs ladder is more applicable than last years WoL tourney, but using ladder has its drawbacks. I guess I see where blizzard is coming from.
Imho invites should had never happened in the first place, and everyone should had been forced to play qualifiers to get into premier leagues.
But here we are, argueing about something subjective enough like "who is more deserving an invite".
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On April 26 2013 03:33 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe. I'm so glad I can blame ALL of them now
I am just glad the Blizzard, ESL and MLG are giving us people to blame until the next set of matches. I don't know if the community could survive without this. We would be so bored.
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On April 26 2013 03:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 03:33 Waxangel wrote:Blizzard, MLG, and ESL jointly analyzed 2012 global performance results to determine invites for the WCS Season 1 Premier League in America and Europe. I'm so glad I can blame ALL of them now I am just glad the Blizzard, ESL and MLG are giving us people to blame until the next set of matches. I don't know if the community could survive without this. We would be so bored.
Blamethrower FG 9000, never fails to sell out, every time.
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On April 26 2013 03:44 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 03:24 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 26 2013 03:09 Plansix wrote:On April 26 2013 03:04 Darkhoarse wrote:
Use of WoL results to invite for a HoTs tourney isnt a great idea in the first place. HotS is two months old and has had two major tournaments in total since it came out. One of the tournaments was an invite only. There aren't really other results to go on and its not like they can just ignore WCS from last year. Frankly, HoTs ladder is more applicable than last years WoL tourney, but using ladder has its drawbacks. I guess I see where blizzard is coming from. Imho invites should had never happened in the first place, and everyone should had been forced to play qualifiers to get into premier leagues.
But here we are, argueing about something subjective enough like "who is more deserving an invite".
While that is the fairest way to go about doing things, it goes without saying that Blizzard did not want to risk even the slimmest chance of their tournament, which is supposed to compete with DreamHack and IEM, to have little starpower and many wildcards/unknown players.
A Stephano or an MMA goes a very, very long way in terms of viewership and hype, even if they haven't been playing at the same phenomenal level we used to expect from them a year ago. Compare that to players like Strelok and Dayshi and Shuttle who have been performing quite well recently, beasting up online tournaments and such. Although their play might be better at this point in time and you may very reasonably argue that they're more deserving to be here, the fact remains that they don't bring a lot of excitement for many viewers. Personally I always love seeing players go on hot streaks, especially when they're not that well known, but many people don't really care. WCS EU obviously don't have cream-of-the-crop PartinG/Life/FlaSh absolute top level players, the very best there is in the world, so they have to have these well-known and loved players (who, don't get me wrong, may well still win it all) otherwise their prestigious league becomes a flop.
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On April 26 2013 03:33 _SpiRaL_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:13 Swords wrote:On April 26 2013 02:02 Godwrath wrote:On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote:
I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US? Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed. At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that. Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years. Yes Snute has vastly superior results, he won Homestory Cup and ESET Uk Masters. DeMuslim, 2nd WCS UK, erm can't remember any other Ro4's even.....
I still don't think two tournament wins = vastly superior (obviously debatable), especially considering DeMuslim lives in the US and Snute is based in Europe.
I'm not saying Snute doesn't deserve to be seeded somewhere. It just seems really weird he'd be seeded into the NA region tournament and not Europe's, while the guy who actually lives in NA and is the top grandmaster there and has decent results (top 8 NASL, 2nd place WCS UK, 13th-16th WCS EU - which Snute didn't even participate in) doesn't get a seed.
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EPT
