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On April 26 2013 04:13 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 03:33 _SpiRaL_ wrote:On April 26 2013 02:13 Swords wrote:On April 26 2013 02:02 Godwrath wrote:On April 26 2013 02:00 Swords wrote:
I just don't understand why Snute was invited to WCS NA and Demu wasn't. Why is Snute competing in NA? Is he moving to Korea or the US? Both are non Americans, but Snute has more results to back up his seed. At that time i was thinking he was going to move to KR, but we haven't got any news on that. Does Snute really have better results to backup his seed? I'm looking at liquipedia and it really looks like it depends on which events you value the most. They seem pretty even otherwise. I think both players work incredibly hard though, so I'm not upset Snute got the invite, I just think it's weird to invite a European who's in Europe over a comparable European who's been living in the NA/SA region for the past 2 years. Yes Snute has vastly superior results, he won Homestory Cup and ESET Uk Masters. DeMuslim, 2nd WCS UK, erm can't remember any other Ro4's even..... I still don't think two tournament wins = vastly superior (obviously debatable), especially considering DeMuslim lives in the US and Snute is based in Europe. I'm not saying Snute doesn't deserve to be seeded somewhere. It just seems really weird he'd be seeded into the NA region tournament and not Europe's, while the guy who actually lives in NA and is the top grandmaster there and has decent results (top 8 NASL, 2nd place WCS UK, 13th-16th WCS EU - which Snute didn't even participate in) doesn't get a seed.
It isn't debateable of course its vastly superior. Those two wins are more than DeMuslims entire SC2 career achievement wise. It's also more than the majority of foreign programers. I mean what would be superior for you winning Code S??
I do not understand what is weird about Snute getting a seed ahead of DeMuslim. Of all the things wrong with the invites this is what you choose? He didn't get seeded into EU because he chose NA instead. In this regard him and DeMuslim are equal. It doesn't matter that he lives there.
If DeMuslim would be seeded ahead of Snute now that would be ridiculous...
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I dont see any issue here. Big fanbase is different from actual results.
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As far as I am concerned, they can invite whoever they want to their tournament. It's their prize money. I wouldn't have any problem if they seeded "crowd favorites," like Catz. They just shouldn't act like it's fair, exclude the Chinese unfairly, and then not respond immediately (halt that portion of the ladder) when they receive very valid complaints that a confirmed cheater is knocking out good players.
And who on Earth wrote the statement including something about the Koreans "packing up and moving?" They do know that there are team houses where Koreans can come and practice for a couple of weeks before a tourney entirely on trade, right?
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On April 26 2013 01:49 Darkhoarse wrote:
I'm not saying that south America isn't included in "America or Americas" I'm just saying they Are two continents. That's a geographical fact.
Not tryin to start an argument because frankly it can't really be argued.
I think you guys finished this discussion privately not to deviate the thread. I just want to share the following information because I think it would help avoid future arguments.
As a rule of thumb, Spanish speaking countries teach you that America is just one continent with three sub-divisions: North, Central and South America. That's why it is a little bit annoying for us when people just refer to the USA as America. For you Europeans imagine there was a country called "United States of Europe"... Anyway, we have learned to deal with it because after all "America" is part of the country's name (but you will never find a Latin American person who calls USA "America").
In pretty much the rest of the countries you learn that America may refer to either the country (USA) or the Americas, a land mass comprising the two continents of North and South America.
Perhaps "WCS Americas" would be a less ambiguous term for the region. However, at least for now, don't let the name of the region dictate which players should be invited or not. At the moment, the three regions have to accommodate the whole world so they cannot close the door to players whose country is semantically not in one.
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Poland3748 Posts
On April 25 2013 23:36 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 22:28 nimdil wrote:On April 25 2013 22:06 MrSourGit wrote:
DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit. Just stop it already. It's not like DeMusliM is the most prominent NA player in terms of results. No, but he is one of the best, if not the best, players in living in NA that isn't Korean. He's the best non-Korean in EG and with Scarlett taking a break I think it's safe to say that for this moment, ignoring history, he is the best non-Korean in NA.
Based on what? Stream? Ladder?
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United States23455 Posts
On April 26 2013 06:46 Asfer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 01:49 Darkhoarse wrote:
I'm not saying that south America isn't included in "America or Americas" I'm just saying they Are two continents. That's a geographical fact.
Not tryin to start an argument because frankly it can't really be argued. I think you guys finished this discussion privately not to deviate the thread. I just want to share the following information because I think it would help avoid future arguments. As a rule of thumb, Spanish speaking countries teach you that America is just one continent with three sub-divisions: North, Central and South America. That's why it is a little bit annoying for us when people just refer to the USA as America. For you Europeans imagine there was a country called "United States of Europe"... Anyway, we have learned to deal with it because after all "America" is part of the country's name (but you will never find a Latin American person who calls USA "America"). In pretty much the rest of the countries you learn that America may refer to either the country (USA) or the Americas, a land mass comprising the two continents of North and South America. Perhaps "WCS Americas" would be a less ambiguous term for the region. However, at least for now, don't let the name of the region dictate which players should be invited or not. At the moment, the three regions have to accommodate the whole world so they cannot close the door to players whose country is semantically not in one.
Yeah he explained that to me. I honestly had no idea. It's actually pretty interesting that different countries teach that differently. Thank you for explaining though!
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So can someone remind me why this interview is posted on TL or even exist to begin with? There's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this interview that we don't already know. Come on now, you can't just do Q&As with a single batch of questions, if you do that, YOU WILL get the most generic answer that answers NOTHING for every single question.
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I understand that the first year of implementing something like this is gonna rocky. What they should have done was made it so that all of these qualifiers are done offline exactly like the GSL. This way, you need people to be physically present during every single part of this tournament, not just the main WCS tourny.
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getting to enter the challanger league qualifier is the same as saying there is NO compensation for losing a cheater or a DQ. that sucks.
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On April 26 2013 13:55 AceOfCakez wrote:
I understand that the first year of implementing something like this is gonna rocky. What they should have done was made it so that all of these qualifiers are done offline exactly like the GSL. This way, you need people to be physically present during every single part of this tournament, not just the main WCS tourny.
While their ultimate goal is to have a fully offline league, this has to be done gradually. The WCS America league is meant to accommodate players not only from the whole continent but also from other countries which do not currently have a league.
Imagine all the players from South America, Australia, China, etc... having to pay such an expensive trip just for a qualifier in which their chances are not that good. Once they advance further in the tournament then the trip would be more than justified.
In time these players will consider moving to their WCS region of choice and then it will be more reasonable to do it fully offline, but you cannot expect this to happen in a few months.
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On April 26 2013 02:37 Charlie.Sheen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 02:25 EleanorRIgby wrote:On April 25 2013 20:47 teddyoojo wrote:On April 25 2013 19:55 fleeze wrote:On April 25 2013 19:50 sCFade wrote:On April 25 2013 09:40 Disco.stu. wrote:On April 25 2013 09:33 calippo wrote:On April 25 2013 09:27 nkr wrote:On April 25 2013 09:24 calippo wrote:
Still missing alot of information regarding almost everything, but what can you expect from a rushed project. What i find funny is that you actually have to cheat in a really big online tournament to get banned for map/drop hacking, that is how much Blizzard cares about doing something about it, disgusting. They are so far behind in all their games with "anticheat" T.T. what game developer is ahead of them in anticheating? ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it. edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warden_(software)Warden runs alongside most modern blizzard games and detects known hacks and illegal game modifications. It is not perfect, but is much better than whatever anti-hack system Valve has on their Counterstrike games. In fact, I remember the hacking scene from wc3 ladder pretty much died after Warden was released. Try to do some research before you rage. Not to be petty, but Wc3 ladder died because of hackers. Warden is dramatically ineffective. Try to do some research, please. wc3 died because of p2p which is easy to hack. especially the well known disc hacks. sc2 is client/server communication. yet sc2 is flooded by hackers :=) its really not, at high master level its pretty rare to run in to a hacker, like 1 in 20 games probably. 1 in 20 games to run into hacker is rare? That's very high imo.
only 5% hackers would make me very happy. i play low masters (~1100 points) where allmost all the maphackers are stuck. play 10 games in this mmr region and you meet at least 2 allknowing guys for shure.
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I think they should spread out te rosters for each region or especially korea, but not allow to play the qaulifiers for another region, but I dont really know, maybe its good to have koreans among EU und NA Qualifier.
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On April 27 2013 06:35 JtoK wrote:
I think they should spread out te rosters for each region or especially korea, but not allow to play the qaulifiers for another region, but I dont really know, maybe its good to have koreans among EU und NA Qualifier.
Koreans only add to the scene if they live here / compete on NA ladder all the time. Otherwise it's no different then the previous situation where they traveled to all major tournaments and top 8 were Koreans.
Would they have to move if a majority of the tournament moves offline in the future...sure. What I don't think blizzard understands is despite the fact that more offline in the future gurantees less Koreans down the road...It does 100% nothing to help the situation some NA players are in now.
TLDR: Blizzard has miss handled this thing from the start, and now they are paying the price with an overall lack luster tournament going on so far. There is a lot of good reasons why Riot is kicking their butt all over the place in the esports scene right now.
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On April 25 2013 17:49 jaydee81 wrote:
I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS.
I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system.
I think this is my first post that some people actually agree to 
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On April 27 2013 17:54 jaydee81 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 17:49 jaydee81 wrote:
I know a lot of people feel very different about this, but I am really put off by the amount of Koreans and it will make me less likely to follow WCS.
I know the argument of the other side, wanting to "see only the best". Fine. I grew up with soccer and you normally don't just go and root for the best... you have a team you like for geografical reasons or values or whatever and stick with it through thick and thin. I hope they make some adjustments to the current system. I think this is my first post that some people actually agree to
I understand your point, but i see WCS more as the APT (tennis). They have rankings (like sc2 wcs), play tournaments and have grand slams (wcs-finals). In tennis, they have some national players attending, but also a large portion of really good international players...
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Choosing Killer, Fenix, and Capoch was clearly Latin American affirmative action. There's no other explanation for it.
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EPT
