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On April 25 2013 23:36 BeyondCtrL wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 22:28 nimdil wrote:On April 25 2013 22:06 MrSourGit wrote:
DeMuslim is playing fking amazing sc2 at the monment .... Everyone on his stream has seen him win fights that Should be 100% un-winnable ...... This could be the prime of his sc2 career , and they don't fkin invite him ........ Jesus fking Christ , organisation is shit. Just stop it already. It's not like DeMusliM is the most prominent NA player in terms of results. No, but he is one of the best, if not the best, players in living in NA that isn't Korean. He's the best non-Korean in EG and with Scarlett taking a break I think it's safe to say that for this moment, ignoring history, he is the best non-Korean in NA.
I'd argue Thorzain is the best non-Korean on EG, but he's not in the Americas so it's somewhat a moot point.
Honestly, if the community had heeded the warnings of many of us 2 years ago and backlashed against the ridiculous invite culture we have with SC2, this would have been avoided. Imagine if we only had 8 invite spots and the other 24 had qualifiers. At worst, we'd have complaints that somebody like Idra got one of the 8 spots, but still plenty of opportunity for the rest to be filled by players we think are good enough. It would have also quelled much of this controversy with hackers and DQs with much more opportunities for slighted players. Hindsight 20/20 though.
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On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote:
Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region? After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events.
Ok, that's a fair point on the Demuslim issue. But I'm still miffed about HelloKitty and TheOgnis and Capoch and Maker because they weren't the highest placing players last time around for WCS. What about Insur and Major and Levin, guys who actually made it to BWC? It's not keeping with the idea of "previous WCS qualifier results." I know Levin has another job and all, but i don't see a reason to leave Insur out of the loop.
And that moonglade invite just kind of throws the entire decision to exclude China into another level of curious eyebrow raising
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The US qualifiers get shit on a bunch over the EU qualifiers, where only 7 Korean players playing over the span of the week. Only shuttle was a strong tier player, and he got his seed. That's 4 brackets of a ton of players with bottom tier koreans like finale and dragon. Much different than 15 top Koreans playing in a 500 some bracket. Demuslims always got the short end of the stick. He didn't get invited to NASL like season 1/2? Doesn't get alot of international invites even though he's fucking good. Keep up the work man.
What I'm saying is that I think alot of issues were prob not established beforehand. The problems just landed on the NA qualifiers harshly and more harshly than other qualifiers.
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United States23455 Posts
On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote:
Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region? After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
... He's from Argentina (south America) and this is the NA WCS. I don't see how he gets preference over Demu.
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On April 26 2013 00:31 Batssa wrote:
The US qualifiers get shit on a bunch over the EU qualifiers, where only 7 Korean players playing over the span of the week. Only shuttle was a strong tier player, and he got his seed. That's 4 brackets of a ton of players with bottom tier koreans like finale and dragon. Much different than 15 top Koreans playing in a 500 some bracket. Demuslims always got the short end of the stick. He didn't get invited to NASL like season 1/2? Doesn't get alot of international invites even though he's fucking good. Keep up the work man.
Demuslim is a very good player but I feel that he should have applied for a spot in the WCS EU. 16 eu-only spots in stead of 8 non american (thus some Korean) to "compete"with. Look at the 16 European invites. Demuslim surely would have been given a spot.
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On April 26 2013 00:40 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote:
Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region? After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. ... He's from Argentina (south America) and this is the NA WCS. I don't see how he gets preference over Demu.
The 16 invites were picked from whole of the Americas, not just NA.
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United States23455 Posts
On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote:
Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region? After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better.
Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
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United States23455 Posts
On April 26 2013 00:42 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 00:40 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:
[quote]
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event.
And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. ... He's from Argentina (south America) and this is the NA WCS. I don't see how he gets preference over Demu. The 16 invites were picked from whole of the Americas, not just NA.
This begs the question: Why? They are two different continents. Why does South America get included in NA?
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On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote:
Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region? After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
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On April 26 2013 00:12 DavoS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote:
Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region? After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Ok, that's a fair point on the Demuslim issue. But I'm still miffed about HelloKitty and TheOgnis and Capoch and Maker because they weren't the highest placing players last time around for WCS. What about Insur and Major and Levin, guys who actually made it to BWC? It's not keeping with the idea of "previous WCS qualifier results." I know Levin has another job and all, but i don't see a reason to leave Insur out of the loop. And that moonglade invite just kind of throws the entire decision to exclude China into another level of curious eyebrow raising
Maker/kitty/theogins are all well known strong American players with good past results, people on this thread for the most part seem to only follow players from 2012, if you have been following the scene since 2010, you would understand better.
And Theogins is a very smart Brood war terran player, who is very strong in starcraft 2 as well, EG has super exposed players due to EG being EG, so other players not on big teams get overshadowed, even tho they are better players atm.
Demuslim has not had very good results in WOL and just recently been doing good on the LADDER, ladder means nothing, in actual tourneys, there have been far better players then Demuslim, Demuslim is considered euro, and he is not even close to having the results the Euro terrans have had, such as thorzain, who has done wayyy better then Demuslim on eg.
As others mentioned, Demus is considered UK, not USA. I know you guys like to follow his stream, but just because he is a fan fav does not mean he should be seeded over players 10x better then him, like the non Americans who got invited.
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On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote:
Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region? After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents.
The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
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On April 26 2013 00:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:
[quote]
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event.
And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents. The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him.
Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
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ESL spent alot of money on a anticheat called ESL Wire for CS:GO (maybe works for other games aswell not sure), ESEA (CS:GO / 1.6 / TF2 maybe some more) has their own anticheat aswell. With how much money Blizzard makes on WoW for the last 6-7 years it shouldnt take them 6-12 months to ban people from botting in d3 / WoW and map/drop hacking in sc2. I mean there is even a thread on this site that does a better job at spotting hackers then Blizzard themselfs, that is how far behind they are, if they even care about. Dont get me wrong, you cant stop hacking 100% but you can atleast try and do something about it and not just ignore it.
edit: yes these are not game developers they are leagues, which has less money then a HUGE company like Blizzard has.
I remember when I used to play Warcraft 3 in its heyday, there was a drop hack that was so widely abused I would literally get dropped once every 1-3 games, without fail. They didn't fix the exploit for at least 3-4 months, and even that timeframe is absolutely ridiculous for such a commonly used hack.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
The reason for Comm's inability to sign up sounds like it came from the MLG half of things, I thought it was meant to be open bracket?
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On April 26 2013 00:55 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 00:50 Plansix wrote:On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:
[quote]
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents. The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him. Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA.
Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
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United States23455 Posts
On April 26 2013 00:48 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:
[quote]
After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event.
And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents. It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America.
Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
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On April 26 2013 00:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 00:55 Penev wrote:On April 26 2013 00:50 Plansix wrote:On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:
[quote]
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents. The WCS NA encompass all of the Americas, not just NA. Blizzard did this because there are no WCS events for SA and a number of other area's this year. The rules for invites are not perfect, but there had to be a set number of invites for people in the region covered by WCS NA. It sucks that DeMusliM is not in there, but the invite system wasn't created to exclude him. Plansix, according to liquipedia at least, it's not even called the WCS NA. Well that solves that problem. We should probably call is something else then. I vote for WSC AA - All Amercias, because its super dumb.
Liquipedia just calls it WCS America. But if you want to call it AA than that's fine too. 
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On April 26 2013 01:00 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 00:48 Penev wrote:On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:
[quote]
It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others".
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents. It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America. Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused.
Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
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United States23455 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:05 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 01:00 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 26 2013 00:48 Penev wrote:On April 26 2013 00:45 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 23:33 Shinta) wrote:On April 25 2013 23:19 Darkhoarse wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:
[quote]
And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year?
No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Generally I use Capoch as my example, who also played in a different WCS and yet was placed higher than Demuslim. Capoch filled in an American invite spot because he's American. As in being from the Americas. DeMusliM is not, and thus cannot fill that spot. The spot that DeMusliM could have filled, he didn't get because the other players were better. Saying that South American players should fill NA spots is like saying Australian players should be invited to an Asian WCS because of proximity. They are two different continents. It's not WCS NA, it's called the WCS America. Im kind of embarrassed at this point because it is actually called WCS America. People have been calling it WCS NA and MLG said that their rules involved inviting "NA" players before others. That is why I was confused. Yeah, unfortunately this WCS system has caused a lot of confusion. It's clearly rushed. But it can only get better.
Yeah I imagine their will still be more growing pains. Plus I imagine Demuslim will qualify in challenger because he got so close in Premier league.
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On April 26 2013 00:48 LingBlingBling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2013 00:12 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 22:53 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 22:09 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:51 Nimic wrote:On April 25 2013 21:44 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 21:28 Dhays9 wrote:On April 25 2013 21:19 DavoS wrote:On April 25 2013 09:23 Esoterikk wrote:
Do they even realize you don't need to "pick up and move to a different country" to play in WCS outside of your region? After the RO32 I believe you actually do have to be present for the LAN portion of the event. And the idea that Capoch, HelloKitty, Maker and State were at any point outperforming Demuslim is a massive load of shitake mushrooms It doesn't matter if Demuslim did better than them or not. He is not considered on NA invite list as he did not compete in an WCS qualifier that took place in NA or SA last year so be was lumped in with 8 "others". And NesTea, Sen, and Ryung and Snute did compete in NA/SA qualifiers last year? No, but they are more accomplished than DeMusliM, so they got the nod. I guess Sen is a toss-up, but it no doubt helps that his country doesn't actually have its own WCS. Neither does China, and we see how that went for them :-( And if we're going on "more accomplished," to defend why they got seeds, then I'm right back at the start wondering why Maker and HelloKitty got preference over Demuslim. There's just a ton of inconsistent philosophy with how MLG and Blizzard are handling things. I'd say that it's understandable that the first time with a format like this would cause some headaches, but ESL seems to be handling their tournament without major hiccups, so I'm running out of possible explanations for why things are so chaotic What do you not get about Demuslim not counting towards the America portion of the invites. He is considered in the non American invite list for WCS NA because he played in WCS UK In 2012. Stop using HelloKitty and Maker as your excuse when they are not even applicable to this discussion. As for Chinese players the only international results they have are WCS China and Ocemia which obviously was not enough as that is only two tournaments where the non American invites attend and performed well in more than two events. Ok, that's a fair point on the Demuslim issue. But I'm still miffed about HelloKitty and TheOgnis and Capoch and Maker because they weren't the highest placing players last time around for WCS. What about Insur and Major and Levin, guys who actually made it to BWC? It's not keeping with the idea of "previous WCS qualifier results." I know Levin has another job and all, but i don't see a reason to leave Insur out of the loop. And that moonglade invite just kind of throws the entire decision to exclude China into another level of curious eyebrow raising Maker/kitty/theogins are all well known strong American players with good past results, people on this thread for the most part seem to only follow players from 2012, if you have been following the scene since 2010, you would understand better. And Theogins is a very smart Brood war terran player, who is very strong in starcraft 2 as well, EG has super exposed players due to EG being EG, so other players not on big teams get overshadowed, even tho they are better players atm. Demuslim has not had very good results in WOL and just recently been doing good on the LADDER, ladder means nothing, in actual tourneys, there have been far better players then Demuslim, Demuslim is considered euro, and he is not even close to having the results the Euro terrans have had, such as thorzain, who has done wayyy better then Demuslim on eg. As others mentioned, Demus is considered UK, not USA. I know you guys like to follow his stream, but just because he is a fan fav does not mean he should be seeded over players 10x better then him, like the non Americans who got invited.
I'm not implying that those guys are bad or don't deserve to be pros or anything like that, but saying that TheOgnis or Maker are better than Major is laughable. I will admit that TheOgnis' ability in Brood War is something I know nothing about, but I do know that Bisu is all the proof you need that they are different games and skill in one doesn't guarantee skill in the other. And we should be looking at 2012 results primarily. Kiwikaki was great in 2010, but that doesn't mean he deserves a seed, you know?
And I've given up on the Demuslim point for the most part, sad as it makes me  my brain isn't ENTIRELY immune from good persuasive arguments
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EPT
