EPT[KeSPA] Proleague R4 Test Maps - Page 13
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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Ratch!
Peru258 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:46 Bisu-Fan wrote: I'll just do the translation for the Fighting Spirit one... Finals week and I don't have much time (what am I doing here haha) Fighting Spirit v0.1 Players: 4 (1, 5, 7, 11) Map size: 152x152 Rush distance: Vertical/Horizontal: 32 sec; Diagonal: 39 sec Creator: Lunatic Sounds Concept: This map draws upon the "National" BW map, Fighting Spirit, and encourages new concepts of worker supply and resource management. Key Features: 1) In current SC2 maps, the worker count takes up too much of the supply and the army count takes a direct hit. Also, it is hard to play in a wide, spread out style of 5 or more bases. 2) Each base has 6 rich mineral patches and 1 high yield gas. 3) Hence the army count can increase, and players can play the map in a more spread out, expanding manner. 4) Also, since the mineral intake rate is higher, the amount of time for build orders to progress become shorter, and the play becomes much more dynamic. Misc: 1) Every main has 6 mineral patches that return 7 minerals per trip (a total of 10,800 minerals) and 1 geyser that returns 8 gas per trip (4500 gas). 2) Compared to the normal map with 12,000 minerals and 5000 gas, there are 10% less resources. Compound that with the faster resource mining rate and the bases mine out roughly 10-15% faster. 3) Because the fewer mineral patches per base, the resource intake rate is not as affected and will not affect army sizes as much. However, the due to the shorter time it takes to mine out, this map encourages faster, more aggressive expansions rather than defensive, turtling (yes, I'm a BW fan, but the article actually says "sitting down") play. According to this, the mining rate in FS is going to be close to what it used to be in BW. I like the idea. | ||
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HolyExlxF
United States256 Posts
I am especially interested in Artemis and Face-Off. Artemis has no standard third, just a bunch of mini-gold bases, and Face-Off is essentially two different maps depending on the spawn positions. Edit: mistook some map details | ||
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grunge
United States40 Posts
...no | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:31 grunge wrote: Have any of you played this map? Go and play it right now and tell me how un-brood war it plays like. I remember maxing my army off of two bases in brood war. ...no You maxed in BW? An impressive feat. | ||
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purakushi
United States3302 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:30 Ratch! wrote: According to this, the mining rate in FS is going to be close to what it used to be in BW. I like the idea. Actually, that is so far from the truth. lol This SC2 FS mines even faster than vanilla SC2. Yes, the specific mining rate numbers may be close to BW's, but due to perfect pathing and AI etc, SC2 with the same numbers makes it super high income. This has been tested extensively by many people, most notably Barrin. I wish I knew Korean so I could tell KESPA directly. >< | ||
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grunge
United States40 Posts
battlecruiser online | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:37 grunge wrote: I just did actually. battlecruiser online You're forgetting that you and the people you are playing != pros. It's a whole different game. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
▶ # of players : 2 (1, 7 o'clock) ▶ Size : 128 × 128 ▶ Rush distance : 32 secs ▶ Mapmaker : Jacky (박근호) ▶ Concept The map has line symmetry, and players can take their 2nd expansions depending on their preferences. ▶ Characteristics ① 2nd expansions can be taken to player's preference. ② One is close ground-distance wise, but is easily accessible by enemy air units, and therefore susceptible to air raids and drops. The other base is the opposite, and on a path to the 4th base, but is near potential battlegrounds requiring swift defense should it be under attack. ③ Players can take expansions according to their styles and play the game out drawing out their strengths. ④ Many expansions are around 5 o'clock - a key point where players will constantly battle over. However, even if one loses control over there, he or she can take a strategic position towards 11, taking secret bases or utilizing the short air route, leaving open possibilities of a comeback. ■ Artemis v0.1 (아르테미스) ▶ # of players : 4 (1, 5, 7, 11 o'clock) ▶ Size : 172 × 172 ▶ Rush distance : horizontal/vertical 33 secs, diagonal 43 secs ▶ Mapmaker : Str18-02 (우상희) ▶ Concept The map reduces positional imbalances from rotationally symmetrical maps. Battlegrounds are large and expansions have high-yield resources allowing for bigger armies, diverse army compositions, and various strategies. ▶ Characteristics ① 3rd and 4th bases are high yield so worker to army ratio in lategame will be lower. ② The map is very big so mobility is emphasized. ③ 3rd and 4th bases are near but to secure additional expansions, map control is a must. ▶ Other notes High yield minerals return 7 minerals and 6 gas per trip. ■ Colosseum v0.1 (콜로세움) ▶ # of players : 4 (1, 5, 7, 11 o'clock) ▶ Size : 156 × 156 ▶ Rush distance : horizontal/vertical 28 secs, diagonally 32 secs ▶ Mapmaker : Str18-02 (우상희) ▶ Concept The hills surrounding the lower middle area makes the map look like a Colosseum. Offensive maneuvers to take control of the hills are key here. This map was remade to suit Heart of the Swarm after it showed many entertaining games in Brood War. ▶ Characteristics ① Map was remade so uphill mechanics would not destroy balance, but still relevant in the mid-lategame. ② In SC2, when an opponent secured your highground, it is too difficult to break out so map was changed to make both hills only accessible to the nearby spawner. ③ However if a player only turtles, the opponent can gain access to the hill through destructible rocks, and another pathway can be made by the same method, encourage offensive play. ■ Face Off v0.1 (페이스 오프) ▶ # of players : 4 (1, 5, 7, 11 o'clock) ▶ Size : 136 × 136 ▶ Rush distance : 1~7 35 secs / 5~11 42 secs ▶ Mapmaker : Lunatic Sounds (주종현) ▶ Concept The map creates different battle situations and map characteristics with two unique spawning position pairs within one map, ▶ Characteristics ① Only spawns diagonally - either 1/7 or 5/11 positions. ② 1~7 position calls for standard play, taking natural, then 3rd on the nearby hill then expanding counter-clockwise. ③ With 5~11 positions, air distance is short while the ground distance is much longer. Players can take either bases after their natural, and they will fight with high-tier units since they can secure four bases relatively easily. ■ Fighting Spirit v0.1 (투혼) ▶ # of spawns : 4 (1, 5, 7. 11 o'clock) ▶ Size : 152 × 152 ▶ Rush distance : horizontal/vertical 32 secs, diagonal 39 secs ▶ Mapmaker : Lunatic Sounds (주종현) ▶ Concept A SC2 port of one of the most popular maps in SC:BW, "Fighting Spirit", this remake was done with a novel approach to resource management and supply composition in mind on familiar terrains to produce new gameplay. ▶ Features ① Currently in SC2 [compared to BW] workers take up more supply, bringing the the total army supply lower; in addition it is hard to see games where players take 5+ expansions across the map. ② All of the bases have 6 high-yield mineral patches that return 7 per trip, and 1 high-yield geyser that return 8 per trip. ③ Hence compared to normal maps ratio of worker supply goes down, making players fight with bigger armies, taking multiple bases over the entire map. ④ With high yield resources, builds will be executed faster, making the overall play faster and more dynamic. ▶ Other notes ① Each base has 6 gold mineral patches (1800 each) that returns 7 per trip (total of 10800 minerals) and 1 rich geyser (4500) that returns 8. ② Compared to standard maps (12000 minerals/5000 gas per base) the total resources per base is about 10% lower and mine faster, so they will run dry about 10-15% faster. ③ Hence once optimal worker count has been reached, income and army production capacity does not significant differ from standard maps; however since resources will be depleted quicker, players are forced to utilize the whole map and take faster expansions rather than turtle. | ||
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LighT.
Canada4501 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:24 revy wrote: I think it's funny how many people are doubting the all golds on fighting spirit. Sure it's crazy, but the map has to pass some minimum bar to make it to a "release" like this. Sure there have been Kespa maps that actually made it into PL which were really bad, but it's pretty few and far between. The map makers have done their homework here, I'ld guess it's better than 50% chance that all golds Fighting Spirit will make it and be balanced enough. thus far;;... Planet S and Bifrost have been god-sends. One of which is so good..it's become a staple in Ladder + GSL Caldeum is also a lot of fun. Arkanoid...has produced a lot of funny games...but this map seems to have its own little system where none of the current stratgies applies and you have to improvise new ones and adapt to a completely different meta game I feel FS and Face off are guaranteed to be great maps. Not sure about Colosseum and the others. | ||
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grunge
United States40 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:42 Targe wrote: You're forgetting that you and the people you are playing != pros. It's a whole different game. You're forgetting that you haven't played the map and shouldn't be speaking on it. | ||
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purakushi
United States3302 Posts
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mrRoflpwn
United States2618 Posts
And what is up with the all gold map? You could pump out like 10 rax MMM on 2 bases... | ||
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LighT.
Canada4501 Posts
In SC:BW, after the mid games, what players were fighting for was position + mining bases, constantly taking each other expansions and trying to mine teh hell out of it. In SC2: WoL/HoTS, what players are fighting for is position + eliminating mining bases, rather than recapturing them since the maps are designed in a way that an expansion always favors one person over the other from a defensive standpoint | ||
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ch33psh33p
7650 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On March 19 2013 04:53 ch33psh33p wrote: People REALLY need to read Barin's analysis on base resource management in map making before saying anything about this FS. Kespa's analysis seems extremely off, as any kind of testing has shown that this is not the way to go about making more BW-esque dynamic maps. Didn't he come to the conclusion that 6 mineral fields didn't work out as well as he expected? If the map doesn't work out I'm sure kespa will drop the idea, but hey, it will lead to some weird games for now ^^ | ||
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purakushi
United States3302 Posts
On March 19 2013 05:07 Targe wrote: Didn't he come to the conclusion that 6 mineral fields didn't work out as well as he expected? If the map doesn't work out I'm sure kespa will drop the idea, but hey, it will lead to some weird games for now ^^ Yes he did. He updated it to 8 minerals, 4 per trip, 1 hyg, 6 per trip. That is very close to BW. However, Barrin also denounced the newer FRB, stating it was not what he had in mind. Economy wise it was fine, but he wants more (high ground advantage, etc) to SC2. Just thinking economy alone, KESPA should use FRB, imo. While it could be better, FRB is quite easy to implement, so it would be a good approach. (I feel like I have repeated this so many times in this thread, but no one reads and are just saying the same things lol oh well) | ||
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myRZeth
Germany1047 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 19 2013 05:11 purakushi wrote: Yes he did. He updated it to 8 minerals, 4 per trip, 1 hyg, 6 per trip. That is very close to BW. However, Barrin also denounced the newer FRB, stating it was not what he had in mind. Economy wise it was fine, but he wants more (high ground advantage, etc) to SC2. Just thinking economy alone, KESPA should use FRB, imo. While it could be better, FRB is quite easy to implement, so it would be a good approach. (I feel like I have repeated this so many times in this thread, but no one reads and are just saying the same things lol oh well) isnt FRB a mod? | ||
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