On December 30 2012 01:33 Sumahi wrote: I've always been surprised that there hasn't been more switching of races amongst pros. For example, given the way that so many talk about Zerg being overpowered and Terran being weak, I was a bit surprised we didn't see any players switch to Zerg.
I'm not that surprised. Considering how often Blizzard patches the game, you wouldn't want to change and then have your new race nerfed/old race buffed. And the amount of training with one race is huge.
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote: It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.
pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.
Not in the GSL, he settled on Terran when he qualified for the GSL. GSL does not allow Random since you can prepare for a matchup in that case.
I'm almost certain I saw Guineapig play some random televised GSL matches.
On December 30 2012 00:45 sickoota wrote: most tournaments do allow it. GSL let morrow do it, almost all western tournaments allow it. I doubt kespa ever will, but that is more a matter of tradition.
sAviOr played Terran vs GoRush/GGPlay(Can't remember) in Proleague, so it has happened. You have to announce it ahead of time though.
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote: It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.
pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.
Not in the GSL, he settled on Terran when he qualified for the GSL. GSL does not allow Random since you can prepare for a matchup in that case.
Nope, GSL has always allowed for random. It wouldn't make sense for them to allow it in qualifiers but not for Code A and Code S. The reason the Gumiho picked Terran was probably because it is very very hard to play all 3 races at GSL levels. Sure, there are advantages (openers) to playing random but it is just so much more demanding. You have to play 6 matchups instead of 3. It is true that your opponent shas to practice 3 matchups, but the random player also needs to practice 3 match ups since they don't know which race they will get until they get into the game.
9 match-ups you mean. Unless you're not counting the mirrors.
as long as you set clear rules beforehand (like with morrow you know what race hes gonna be, if your Z hes T and if your not Z hes Z) but especially in the GSL being to change race without saying a thing to your opponent is just wrong becuase it removes the preparation factor that makes GSL entertaining
I could see it being entertaining if both players blindly and privately announce their races before the match. E.g.
MorroW knows he's playing against NesTea, and MorroW knows that NesTea is a Zerg player, so MorroW chooses to play Terran. NesTea anticipates that MorroW will choose Terran, and also chooses to play Terran and prepares for TvT, and MorroW loses since he didn't think NesTea would race switc, and prepared only for TvZ
I'd love to see something like that happen at least once, but I very much doubt it.
On December 30 2012 00:50 liquidoa wrote: I am still waiting for the player who plays random on a high tournament level. That would make this game so much more entertaining. He would be the Hero of Heros.
Some time ago, Nerchio did play random sucesfully in online cups. He was on a rather high level with it. TLO in the beta in tournaments.
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote: It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.
pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.
Not in the GSL, he settled on Terran when he qualified for the GSL. GSL does not allow Random since you can prepare for a matchup in that case.
I never heard tha GSL denied randoms, as far as I know, you can play Z, T, P or R (Random), or a combination of matchups like MorroW used to have ZvP, ZvT and TvZ, as far as GSL knows beforehand.
Switching matchups randomly and playing random is two totally different things.
I think that most pros play/practice their main race for too many hours to be as competitive with their off race. I feel like splitting your practice between 3 races isn't as proficient as practicing with one. I'll grant that Morrow pulled it off but I don't think that random players work. Plus you could see some ugly games if you don't get the map you want for the race you pick.
If there are 2 players that switch matchups (like zergs playing ZvT) it comes to a blind pick. I don't think anyone does it differently short of disallowing picking entirely.
On December 30 2012 02:11 Forikorder wrote: as long as you set clear rules beforehand (like with morrow you know what race hes gonna be, if your Z hes T and if your not Z hes Z) but especially in the GSL being to change race without saying a thing to your opponent is just wrong becuase it removes the preparation factor that makes GSL entertaining
Agreed. And I also want to know what I'm going to be watching before it starts.
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote: It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.
pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.
Not in the GSL, he settled on Terran when he qualified for the GSL. GSL does not allow Random since you can prepare for a matchup in that case.
I never heard tha GSL denied randoms, as far as I know, you can play Z, T, P or R (Random), or a combination of matchups like MorroW used to have ZvP, ZvT and TvZ, as far as GSL knows beforehand.
Switching matchups randomly and playing random is two totally different things.
I think picking the combination Morrow does is approved on a special case basis. Because not many players do this, it is not a big issue. But if it gets more common, we can have issues like if morrow plays someone who only plays T but plays As Z if opponent is Z. But again, having to practice 2 race mechanics is really hard at the top level so it is almost always better to focus on one race.
On December 30 2012 02:15 SgtCoDFish wrote: I could see it being entertaining if both players blindly and privately announce their races before the match. E.g.
MorroW knows he's playing against NesTea, and MorroW knows that NesTea is a Zerg player, so MorroW chooses to play Terran. NesTea anticipates that MorroW will choose Terran, and also chooses to play Terran and prepares for TvT, and MorroW loses since he didn't think NesTea would race switc, and prepared only for TvZ
I'd love to see something like that happen at least once, but I very much doubt it.
just once youd like to see someone abusing the rules to get free wins over there opponent in the douchiest way possible?
On December 30 2012 00:45 sickoota wrote: most tournaments do allow it. GSL let morrow do it, almost all western tournaments allow it. I doubt kespa ever will, but that is more a matter of tradition.
sAviOr played Terran vs GoRush/GGPlay(Can't remember) in Proleague, so it has happened. You have to announce it ahead of time though.
On December 30 2012 02:15 SgtCoDFish wrote: I could see it being entertaining if both players blindly and privately announce their races before the match. E.g.
MorroW knows he's playing against NesTea, and MorroW knows that NesTea is a Zerg player, so MorroW chooses to play Terran. NesTea anticipates that MorroW will choose Terran, and also chooses to play Terran and prepares for TvT, and MorroW loses since he didn't think NesTea would race switc, and prepared only for TvZ
I'd love to see something like that happen at least once, but I very much doubt it.
just once youd like to see someone abusing the rules to get free wins over there opponent in the douchiest way possible?
Lol, they didn't have to play starcraft than. Just roll dies. Nothing as exciting as that.
On December 30 2012 02:15 SgtCoDFish wrote: I could see it being entertaining if both players blindly and privately announce their races before the match. E.g.
MorroW knows he's playing against NesTea, and MorroW knows that NesTea is a Zerg player, so MorroW chooses to play Terran. NesTea anticipates that MorroW will choose Terran, and also chooses to play Terran and prepares for TvT, and MorroW loses since he didn't think NesTea would race switc, and prepared only for TvZ
I'd love to see something like that happen at least once, but I very much doubt it.
just once youd like to see someone abusing the rules to get free wins over there opponent in the douchiest way possible?
Not really. If both players actually know that they are free to do this, then it comes down to mind games and preparing for all the match ups. It is like selecting a BO.
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote: It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.
Only tournament that doesnt allow race swapping is GSTL. Your forced to play the race your team registered you as playing. As seen when Slayers Eve played her only GSTL match and was forced to play terran even though her main race was protoss. Who ever registered the team put her as terran and she couldnt play toss in that game and was forced to all in.
I'm pretty sure it's allowed in most tournaments, but you have to let admins know the specific circumstances of your race switching before the tournament starts so that potential opponents can't be caught off guard.
On December 30 2012 02:15 SgtCoDFish wrote: I could see it being entertaining if both players blindly and privately announce their races before the match. E.g.
MorroW knows he's playing against NesTea, and MorroW knows that NesTea is a Zerg player, so MorroW chooses to play Terran. NesTea anticipates that MorroW will choose Terran, and also chooses to play Terran and prepares for TvT, and MorroW loses since he didn't think NesTea would race switc, and prepared only for TvZ
I'd love to see something like that happen at least once, but I very much doubt it.
just once youd like to see someone abusing the rules to get free wins over there opponent in the douchiest way possible?
Not really. If both players actually know that they are free to do this, then it comes down to mind games and preparing for all the match ups. It is like selecting a BO.
evidently your different but most people prefer the game to be decided in game not out of it
if we wanted to watch rock paper scissors we would go watch that
On December 30 2012 02:15 SgtCoDFish wrote: I could see it being entertaining if both players blindly and privately announce their races before the match. E.g.
MorroW knows he's playing against NesTea, and MorroW knows that NesTea is a Zerg player, so MorroW chooses to play Terran. NesTea anticipates that MorroW will choose Terran, and also chooses to play Terran and prepares for TvT, and MorroW loses since he didn't think NesTea would race switc, and prepared only for TvZ
I'd love to see something like that happen at least once, but I very much doubt it.
just once youd like to see someone abusing the rules to get free wins over there opponent in the douchiest way possible?
Not really. If both players actually know that they are free to do this, then it comes down to mind games and preparing for all the match ups. It is like selecting a BO.
evidently your different but most people prefer the game to be decided in game not out of it
if we wanted to watch rock paper scissors we would go watch that
That's absolutely no different from if Morrow prepared a specific build that only worked against hatch first (which let's say fir argument's sake Nestea has done in every game he's played ever) but then Nestea six pools. It's not like Morrow auto-loses if he plays Nestea in a TvT, if he was smart he would've known about the possibility that Nestea could've picked Terran (or Protoss) and accounted for that in his practice (he wouldn't have to practice TvT or TvP nearly as much as his TvZ, because he would know that Nestea's T and P aren't as good as his Z).
It really irks me when I see the phrase "abusing the rules" (you can't abuse rules, you either follow them or you don't, there's no gray area, and in a competition, there's nothing douchey about doing everything you can within the law to win) and it really harkens back to that article about "scrubs" and competitive gaming, where scrubs complain that their opponent only wins because they do "cheap" things instead of accepting all the rules as part of the game.
EPT
