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Why is race swapping not allowed ? - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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sambo400
Profile Joined March 2011
United States378 Posts
December 29 2012 16:25 GMT
#21
you can do it at MLG, but if it ends up in a situation where both parties are trying to counter pick each other, then they do a blind pick.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
December 29 2012 16:26 GMT
#22
I don't think there's a rule against it, but I believe you do have to let it be known beforehand (It's not exactly fair if you decide to become a Terran a few minutes before the match after your Protoss opponent practices nonstop for a week against Zerg). I have no idea why anybody would want to switch races between games though, it's stupid.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
December 29 2012 16:29 GMT
#23
plus its hard to play all 3 race to the same level. thats why people dont random not because they cant but because its too hard.
Sumahi
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Guam5609 Posts
December 29 2012 16:33 GMT
#24
I've always been surprised that there hasn't been more switching of races amongst pros. For example, given the way that so many talk about Zerg being overpowered and Terran being weak, I was a bit surprised we didn't see any players switch to Zerg.
Startale <3, ST_July <3, HongUn <3, Savior <3, Gretorp <3, Nada <3, Rainbow <3, Ret <3, Squirtle <3, Bomber <3
crazyweasel
Profile Joined March 2011
607 Posts
December 29 2012 16:33 GMT
#25
testie was pretty epic with all 3 races, if i remember good he played a televised match as random. i think its just more fair to stick up with 1 race for the opponent, and if you`re willing to play different race well i feel you should play random. i dont see why you should have the right to avoid zvz
Kihshra
Profile Joined July 2012
178 Posts
December 29 2012 16:35 GMT
#26
On December 30 2012 01:26 Whatson wrote:
I don't think there's a rule against it, but I believe you do have to let it be known beforehand (It's not exactly fair if you decide to become a Terran a few minutes before the match after your Protoss opponent practices nonstop for a week against Zerg). I have no idea why anybody would want to switch races between games though, it's stupid.

Let's say I'm supposed to play Terran and you're Zerg, and the map we're supposed to play on is Atlantis Spaceship. Still stupid for me to raceswap ?
LOLItsRyann
Profile Joined April 2011
England551 Posts
December 29 2012 16:35 GMT
#27
On December 30 2012 00:49 VasHeR wrote:
it potentially leads to too much circular bickering about races ("well if he's switching to X, i'm switching to Y"..."if he's switching to Y, i'm switching to Z"...etc)


I'm sorry sir, but I think you'll find that X, and Y are not playable races in Starcraft. ^^
EG<3
MarkCJ
Profile Joined December 2012
Canada239 Posts
December 29 2012 16:35 GMT
#28
Nope, race swapping is an abomination
"Roses are red, QoP is blue, Anti-Mage is imba, so fuck you." Startale_Life | SKT_Bisu Hwaiting!
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 16:45:35
December 29 2012 16:43 GMT
#29
On December 30 2012 01:35 Kihshra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2012 01:26 Whatson wrote:
I don't think there's a rule against it, but I believe you do have to let it be known beforehand (It's not exactly fair if you decide to become a Terran a few minutes before the match after your Protoss opponent practices nonstop for a week against Zerg). I have no idea why anybody would want to switch races between games though, it's stupid.

Let's say I'm supposed to play Terran and you're Zerg, and the map we're supposed to play on is Atlantis Spaceship. Still stupid for me to raceswap ?

Well duh.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Kihshra
Profile Joined July 2012
178 Posts
December 29 2012 16:45 GMT
#30
On December 30 2012 01:43 Whatson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2012 01:35 Kihshra wrote:
On December 30 2012 01:26 Whatson wrote:
I don't think there's a rule against it, but I believe you do have to let it be known beforehand (It's not exactly fair if you decide to become a Terran a few minutes before the match after your Protoss opponent practices nonstop for a week against Zerg). I have no idea why anybody would want to switch races between games though, it's stupid.

Let's say I'm supposed to play Terran and you're Zerg, and the map we're supposed to play on is Atlantis Spaceship. Still stupid for me to raceswap ?

Well duh. Maps are only a small part of the problem. For example GSL. Players study their opponents a lot before hand, and a number of them prepare specific builds tailored to a specific weakness they find in their opponents matchup, especially in the Bo5s. That means all that practice time is wasted if your opponent switches races, and your opponent would have been able to practice the correct matchup.

I already told what I thought about this concern. As long as you know which maps you're gonna play on, you should just tell the races you're gonna play on each map, like 1 week before.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
December 29 2012 16:46 GMT
#31
On December 30 2012 01:45 Kihshra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2012 01:43 Whatson wrote:
On December 30 2012 01:35 Kihshra wrote:
On December 30 2012 01:26 Whatson wrote:
I don't think there's a rule against it, but I believe you do have to let it be known beforehand (It's not exactly fair if you decide to become a Terran a few minutes before the match after your Protoss opponent practices nonstop for a week against Zerg). I have no idea why anybody would want to switch races between games though, it's stupid.

Let's say I'm supposed to play Terran and you're Zerg, and the map we're supposed to play on is Atlantis Spaceship. Still stupid for me to raceswap ?

Well duh. Maps are only a small part of the problem. For example GSL. Players study their opponents a lot before hand, and a number of them prepare specific builds tailored to a specific weakness they find in their opponents matchup, especially in the Bo5s. That means all that practice time is wasted if your opponent switches races, and your opponent would have been able to practice the correct matchup.

I already told what I thought about this concern. As long as you know which maps you're gonna play on, you should just tell the races you're gonna play on each map, like 1 week before.

Then yeah, it'd be fine. Not like most pros would do it anyways LOL.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
IceSlipper
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Australia1028 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-29 16:49:59
December 29 2012 16:48 GMT
#32
To be honest, my first response was something along the lines of it ruining the opposing players preparation but lets get realistic here, if people don't have to nominate a race before the game, players should be training against everything possible, not just pigeon-holing their preparation towards one specific matchup. The more I think about it, the less I am convinced that not allowing race swapping is a good idea.

I mean, imagine GSL finals, MVP down 0-3, switches to Z or P for the amazing fightback championship win. It would create opportunities for some pretty amazing stories and in my opinion cause players to be better overall at the game rather than better at the matchups, thanks to having to be prepared for anything and everything. If players only want to practice against one race, knowing race switching is allowed then its their own fault. I don't see how the 'wasted preparation' argument is valid.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
December 29 2012 16:50 GMT
#33
On December 30 2012 01:48 IceSlipper wrote:
To be honest, my first response was something along the lines of it ruining the opposing players preparation but lets get realistic here, if people don't have to nominate a race before the game, players should be training against everything possible, not just pigeon-holing their preparation towards one specific matchup. The more I think about it, the less I am convinced that not allowing race swapping is a good idea.

I mean, imagine GSL finals, MVP down 0-3, switches to Z for the amazing fightback championship win. It would create opportunities for some pretty amazing stories and in my opinion cause players to be better overall at the game rather than better at the matchups, thanks to having to be prepared for anything and everything. If players only want to practice against one race, knowing race switching is allowed then its their own fault. I don't see how the 'wasted preparation' argument is valid.

This is pretty much my train of thought also, it would definitely show who is the better "overall" player. But I don't think a lot of pros would take the chance.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
December 29 2012 16:51 GMT
#34
On December 30 2012 01:22 aintz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote:
It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.


pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.

Not in the GSL, he settled on Terran when he qualified for the GSL. GSL does not allow Random since you can prepare for a matchup in that case.
Subversive
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2229 Posts
December 29 2012 16:58 GMT
#35
On December 30 2012 01:33 Sumahi wrote:
I've always been surprised that there hasn't been more switching of races amongst pros. For example, given the way that so many talk about Zerg being overpowered and Terran being weak, I was a bit surprised we didn't see any players switch to Zerg.

I'm not that surprised. Considering how often Blizzard patches the game, you wouldn't want to change and then have your new race nerfed/old race buffed. And the amount of training with one race is huge.

On December 30 2012 01:51 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2012 01:22 aintz wrote:
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote:
It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.


pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.

Not in the GSL, he settled on Terran when he qualified for the GSL. GSL does not allow Random since you can prepare for a matchup in that case.

I'm almost certain I saw Guineapig play some random televised GSL matches.
#1 Great fan ~ // Khan // FlaSh // JangBi // EffOrt //
SFX
Profile Joined June 2011
United States89 Posts
December 29 2012 16:59 GMT
#36
On December 30 2012 01:51 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2012 01:22 aintz wrote:
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote:
It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.


pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.

Not in the GSL, he settled on Terran when he qualified for the GSL. GSL does not allow Random since you can prepare for a matchup in that case.

I'm pretty sure the GSL allows random (they've had random players before). I just think they force you to register the race (or races in Morrow's case) you're going to use before the matches.
The innocent shall suffer, big time.
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
December 29 2012 17:00 GMT
#37
Probably already mentioned, but the only thing not allowed is to switch while countdown runs.
They might bother if we would see it (especially with the losers choice system). And in Warcraft 3 it was quiet okay as some matchups didn't worked on a few maps for one side.
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
December 29 2012 17:03 GMT
#38
On December 30 2012 00:56 X3GoldDot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2012 00:50 liquidoa wrote:
I am still waiting for the player who plays random on a high tournament level. That would make this game so much more entertaining. He would be the Hero of Heros.


man gumiho used to be a random player, look at how good he is now

GuineaPig was random for some time.
Cackle™
edlover420
Profile Joined December 2012
349 Posts
December 29 2012 17:03 GMT
#39
I'm more bothered that I cannot swap races while there's a countdown on ladder match so I could avoid playing mirrors like Morrow used to.
vthree
Profile Joined November 2011
Hong Kong8039 Posts
December 29 2012 17:07 GMT
#40
On December 30 2012 01:51 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2012 01:22 aintz wrote:
On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote:
It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.


pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.

Not in the GSL, he settled on Terran when he qualified for the GSL. GSL does not allow Random since you can prepare for a matchup in that case.


Nope, GSL has always allowed for random. It wouldn't make sense for them to allow it in qualifiers but not for Code A and Code S. The reason the Gumiho picked Terran was probably because it is very very hard to play all 3 races at GSL levels.
Sure, there are advantages (openers) to playing random but it is just so much more demanding. You have to play 6 matchups instead of 3. It is true that your opponent shas to practice 3 matchups, but the random player also needs to practice 3 match ups since they don't know which race they will get until they get into the game.
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