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Hello everyone, I'm sorry if this question has already been asked (and answered), but I didn't see anything that would help answering my question for now on.
First of all, maybe I'm wrong, and if I am this topic doesn't make sense and I'm sorry, but I think most sc2 tournaments do not allow race swapping (meaning you can change your race during the tournament, or even during a BO3 or something like that). My question is why is that so ?
The only "logical" explanation I could find was that if two players couldn't find a match up that fits both of them, it would be difficult to find a way to satisfy both of them, but since it's been allowed in other RTS, I think that kind of problem could be solved.
So please, tell me if there are some reasons I haven't considered to forbid race swapping and how do you feel about it (should it be allowed/not allowed ?).
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most tournaments do allow it. GSL let morrow do it, almost all western tournaments allow it. I doubt kespa ever will, but that is more a matter of tradition.
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Some tournaments allow it if announced before the tournament starts, or at least a set time before the matches. It happened a few times in BW, but was seldom used since it hardly ever was beneficial to change your race. Changing right beforehand was not allowed because it ruined the other players preparation for the match - if you trained TvZ for a week in preparation for a match, and the opponent switched to P right before the match, that's an unfair advantage to the opponent.
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My guess is that it could be abused seeing how most pros have pretty decent offraces too. So if you prepare against race A but all of a sudden have to play race B it will mean a big advantage for the opponent because he has a build order prepared and you just have to make one up on the fly. So while in a macro game the player with the main race would most likely win, being thrown off his build order could lose him the game vs some kind of all-in that the other player can prepare specifically.
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Do you mean race swapping as in avoiding a certain matchup (like Ret playing ZvP ZvT TvZ in BW)? Or just players changing race at random. The latter doesn't work simply because it would be impossible for players to prepare for a matchup.
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I know for sure that Morrow changed his race in the middle of at least one tournament before because he played ZvT, ZvP, and TvZ (hated ZvZ apparently).
Probable reasoning for disallowing/discouraging race swapping in the middle of bo3's is that it potentially leads to too much circular bickering about races ("well if he's switching to X, i'm switching to Y"..."if he's switching to Y, i'm switching to Z"...etc)
I have heard of tournaments disallowing people to select random as their main race, and I think that's retarded. I get that there is an obvious justification (player draws unfavorable race for the matchup/map, so he makes up some complaint and demands regame), but to crap right on the faces of players who prefer to play random is far more against the spirit of the game imo.
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I am still waiting for the player who plays random on a high tournament level. That would make this game so much more entertaining. He would be the Hero of Heros.
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Personally, I want the more skilled person to win, so I approve of race "swapping" in tournaments. I don't want the guy who prepared his build and scouted old stuff from his opponent best, I want the naturally better player to win regardless of race.
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On December 30 2012 00:50 liquidoa wrote:
I am still waiting for the player who plays random on a high tournament level. That would make this game so much more entertaining. He would be the Hero of Heros.
man gumiho used to be a random player, look at how good he is now
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I understand the "You can't throw a week of preparation" argument, and I do agree that in this case you should tell the races you're going to use as long as you already know which maps you will be playing on.
My main concern is about the maps cause some (most ?) of them are not race-balanced.
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Question: what would have happened if Ret were to play himself? Would they be forced to play TvT or would they flip a coin to see who would play the Z in the TvZ?
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On December 30 2012 00:49 VasHeR wrote:
I know for sure that Morrow changed his race in the middle of at least one tournament before because he played ZvT, ZvP, and TvZ (hated ZvZ apparently).
Probable reasoning for disallowing/discouraging race swapping in the middle of bo3's is that it potentially leads to too much circular bickering about races ("well if he's switching to X, i'm switching to Y"..."if he's switching to Y, i'm switching to Z"...etc)
I have heard of tournaments disallowing people to select random as their main race, and I think that's retarded. I get that there is an obvious justification (player draws unfavorable race for the matchup/map, so he makes up some complaint and demands regame), but to crap right on the faces of players who prefer to play random is far more against the spirit of the game imo.
^ this would never happen though. Clearly, in the example you gave, both players would switch to Z regardless of the opponent going X or Y.
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As far as I know it is allowed in most tournaments.
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On December 30 2012 01:04 thenexusp wrote:
Question: what would have happened if Ret were to play himself? Would they be forced to play TvT or would they flip a coin to see who would play the Z in the TvZ?
how does one play himself?
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It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.
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On December 30 2012 00:49 VasHeR wrote:
Probable reasoning for disallowing/discouraging race swapping in the middle of bo3's is that it potentially leads to too much circular bickering about races ("well if he's switching to X, i'm switching to Y"..."if he's switching to Y, i'm switching to Z"...etc)
I'm fairly sure MLG lets you pick race before every game, and if this situation occurs, it is decided via a blind pick, so each player picks without knowing what the other will play as.
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Had no idea it was "not allowed" but people in thread said its allowed. I personally don't see a reason why not.
I don't see MorroW involved with the scene much but I found his uniqueness of not liking ZvZ and playing Terran against zerg to be quite nice. I'll admit, I'm not a huge fan of watching mirror matchups except TvT. Although some ZvZs have been pretty exciting as well as some PvP. But on the ladder, I completely dislike PvP
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On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote:
It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons.
pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.
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United States7483 Posts
On December 30 2012 01:22 aintz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 01:15 Eee wrote:
It's allowed in all major tournaments as far as I know (GSL, DH, MLG, NASL, IEM etc.). Random is not allowed though, for obvious reasons. pretty sure gumioh played random in gsl before settling with terran.
Yup, and GuineaPig played random for a while before settling on protoss too.
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On December 30 2012 00:50 liquidoa wrote:
I am still waiting for the player who plays random on a high tournament level. That would make this game so much more entertaining. He would be the Hero of Heros.
Agree. Will it be me? :D
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EPT
