EPTThe change for the Raven is no where near enough. It is still worthless. HSM should not require research, have it's cost reduced to 75 energy, and range increased to 9 to bring it in line with Fungal Growth and Psionic storm as a damage dealing spell for a Terran spell caster.
Call to Action: Balance Testing (2012/11/20) - Page 5
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Netsky
Australia1155 Posts
The change for the Raven is no where near enough. It is still worthless. HSM should not require research, have it's cost reduced to 75 energy, and range increased to 9 to bring it in line with Fungal Growth and Psionic storm as a damage dealing spell for a Terran spell caster. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
and where do they get there tournament stats from... Every tournament I've watched recently has been almost exclusively ZvP once it hits the deep stages of the tournament. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:59 Protosnake wrote: You think FFE isnt greedy ? The fast 3 base ZvP is a simple reaction to FFE, if you dont take that 3rd base you're all-in. That how it always worked, before Stephano created that build, every ZvP was a roach-muta all-in that led to an (uneeded and irrelevant) phoenix buff. Even more since 2base Infestor cant hold Psionic based units push anymore (Not that it would be smart to all-in a zerg on 2 base) you think FFE IS greedy? lol | ||
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JJH777
United States4414 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:58 SarcasmMonster wrote: I think he would. He's earned $27,000 in the last 6 months (so $54,000 per year if he keeps it up). If you only count his earnings for the last 6 months, that's enough to put him #19 in the top  of all time.Seed, Parting, Rain, Creator, Mana, MC, Squirtle, First, Alicia and YongHwa would all easily be above him. I'm not talking pure prize money but also prestige from the results they did get. Getting 2nd at an MLG is more impressive than at dreamhack but I don't think it pays more. Though I'd be surprised if any of those 9 had less prize money since the queen patch. Idk how much WCG Korea paid though and MLG in general has low prize pools. | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Protosnake
France295 Posts
All depend on your notion of "Greedy". But if you dont think FFE is greedy (It isnt) you shouldnt think a 4-5min reactionary 3rd ZvP is greedy | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:05 HeeroFX wrote: i don't think that change is too game changing in TvZ with the infestors. But I think you will see more Raven useage as a direct counter to Broodlords/corruptors/infestor No. It means Raven play will cost 150/150 less than before. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8244 Posts
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:04 JJH777 wrote: Seed, Parting, Rain, Creator, Mana, MC, Squirtle, First, Alicia and YongHwa would all easily be above him. I'm not talking pure prize money but also prestige from the results they did get. Getting 2nd at an MLG is more impressive than at dreamhack but I don't think it pays more. Though I'd be surprised if any of those 9 had less prize money since the queen patch. Idk how much WCG Korea paid though and MLG in general has low prize pools. IIf you combine both of First's and Yongwha's all time earnings, it's still only $300 more than what ForGG earned in the last 6 months. I'm not disagreeing with your conclusion,  is not in a happy place right now. My only objection is you making up numbers. | ||
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Elwar
953 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:10 Elwar wrote: I reckon the SM change is pretty significant. SM has been getting a ton more use even without this change. Mass raven is a 'thing' now in TvZ when it never was before. It'll make raven after banshee a huge threat in all matchups (only until templar in TvP). Honestly I think its a great change, it will lead to more viable ravens and I think it'll eventually lead to a significant SM damage nerf. What? I don't understand how you can think that having a single Raven with a single Missile ready is a “huge threat”. | ||
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IcedteaDota
223 Posts
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it. Everything that has been wrong with Blizzards balance philosophy rolled up into one megapatch of retardation. My interest in playing this broken and boring game has been waning for the past month or so, I think this is the nail in the coffin. Really makes me sad because SC2 could and should be such a great game, but Blizz seems to have no fucking clue what to do with their game. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:59 Protosnake wrote: You think FFE isnt greedy ? The fast 3 base ZvP is a simple reaction to FFE, if you dont take that 3rd base you're all-in. That how it always worked, before Stephano created that build, every ZvP was a roach-muta all-in that led to an (uneeded and irrelevant) phoenix buff. Even more since 2base Infestor cant hold Psionic based units push anymore (Not that it would be smart to all-in a zerg on 2 base) I think it's a lot less greedy than what zerg is doing in the current meta game, yeah. 3rd base, 70 drones, hope you have infestors/fungals out at the 9 minute mark. I think the best thing that could happen with this change is to force zerg to create additional spine crawlers or army units prior to the 8 minute mark. What I would like to see in this matchup, to make it less boring from the get go and less of a nr20 macro fest on the zerg's part, is for the zerg to be forced to invest money into army and defensive units. That also gives Protoss the additional benefit of having delayed Hive tech, which will then possibly lead to more strategy if they figure out that a zerg isn't making all drones; instead, they're able to more safely take a 3rd and transition in to the late game better. For the record, and I could be 100% wrong, I think the 2 base sentry/immortal all in is still beatable by zerg if they force forcefields out mid map, if they make static defenses at their bases, if they make more units in the early game or a combination of the three. I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I'm sick and tired of seeing zergs do the exact same thing in the 2 non mirror matchups for the last 6 months. I think that making zergs be more cautious and delaying infestor/brood lord is going to be healthy for the matchup, and make it more exciting when you don't know exactly what's going to happen every game. | ||
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SynergySC2
United States27 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:51 .kv wrote: Read and your question may be answered  haha didnt catch that thanks | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:06 Protosnake wrote: All depend on your notion of "Greedy". But if you dont think FFE is greedy (It isnt) you shouldnt think a 4-5min reactionary 3rd ZvP is greedy its not key word: reactionary | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On November 21 2012 12:12 TheDwf wrote: What? I don't understand how you can think that having a single Raven with a single Missile ready is a “huge threat”. not to mention you can still dodge this ability with some units, fungal and feedback both trump it as well if HSM is connecting, terran's opponent is not playing correctly imho | ||
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xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
PvZ winrates may be higher, sure, but practically none of those wins are from legitimate, epic late game fights. The protosses are winning on 2-base and 3-base allins. I have no idea how that's even fun. When the Infestor-Broodlord composition kicks into full gear with 30+ infestors, protoss is EVEN MORE helpless than terran is, thanks to the coin-flippy archon toilet being the only viable solution. I'm not saying it's much easier for terran; you have to split vikings, use ravens (also coin flippy) and have a perfect mix of ground units to combat infestor-bl, all while needing to retain a good tank count to stand a fighting chance against the ultralisk tech switch. My point is, infestor-bl is just insanely difficult and disproportionately hard for both P and T to handle, basically needing to rely on completely perfect control, praying hard to not get fungalled and hoping for the coinflippy vortex and HSM respectively to hit. Hoping for the nerfs to do their job, if as Avilo correctly pointed out, they don't, I'll continue wanting for more. I liked the fungal slow/fungal projectile/infested terran to 50 energy nerfs much better. And yes, I do think Infestors should be nerfed to the ground. I hate that unit so much. | ||
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