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Raven change does nothing. Blizzard is completely out of the loop or is too stubborn to really listen about why ravens suck. Sure, you don't research it now! Great! Absolutely nothing changes in the amount of time it takes for a raven to accumulate hunter seeker energy.
Nothing also changes in terms of unit interactions/unit compositions. There was never a problem before "oh i don't have seeker missile research!" The problem is the time it takes to accumulate energy to make the raven pay itself off.
Quite disappointing. I know a lot of uninformed people here though will eat this up like candy and think something got better when it has not.
Corvid reactor increasing raven starting energy to 100 basically solves all of the issues with ravens in terms of a shorter wait time for a seeker missile, and the raven being able to immediately pay itself off much like an infestor or other casters can (with 2 auto turrets/PDD).
Speak up Terrans or forever hold your peace.
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Belgium480 Posts
...I am only diamond, but is it me or is 'fungal immune to psionic' just insane? How do you stop immortal sentry now? What is fungal good for now? Stalkers?
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Warp prism immune to fungal growth ? This is not going live
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I wonder how Blizz will explain it lore wise.
How come Fungus doesn't grow on Psionic units?
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If infestors cant fungal Warp Prism, theres an issue lol.
Not affecting ghosts/high templar is good, kind of wish it would at least reveal ghosts from cloak tho.
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When you say immune to fungal, do you mean the root, or damage, or entire spell?
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On November 21 2012 11:21 Zoku wrote:
What exactly is the point of making psionic units immune to fungal. HT's and ghosts still can't get close enough to to feedback/emp infestors because of broodlords. All they've done it make midgame protoss stronger, while leave lategame zerg as still an issue. Seriously, do these guys even play or watch the game?
I originally thought of this, but if fungals DONT HIT AT ALL, warp prisms are considered psionic. Speed warp prisms with feedback/storm drops on infestors can be pretty amazing now.
Also, cloaked ghosts can't be fungaled to decloak/raven seeker missiles are one of the few spells that can kill brood-infestors quite efficiently.
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On November 21 2012 11:21 avilo wrote:
Raven change does nothing. Blizzard is completely out of the loop or is too stubborn to really listen about why ravens suck. Sure, you don't research it now! Great! Absolutely nothing changes in the amount of time it takes for a raven to accumulate hunter seeker energy.
Nothing also changes in terms of unit interactions/unit compositions. There was never a problem before "oh i don't have seeker missile research!" The problem is the time it takes to accumulate energy to make the raven pay itself off.
Quite disappointing. I know a lot of uninformed people here though will eat this up like candy and think something got better when it has not.
One day I am going to compile all of avilo's quotes when it comes to balance changes and line them up. What would we learn? All balance changes have done nothing or hurt terran.
At least he is consistent.
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On November 21 2012 11:23 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:21 avilo wrote:
Raven change does nothing. Blizzard is completely out of the loop or is too stubborn to really listen about why ravens suck. Sure, you don't research it now! Great! Absolutely nothing changes in the amount of time it takes for a raven to accumulate hunter seeker energy.
Quite disappointing. They always say this: they want to see more raven usage. Problem is that Terrans are just not using them enough, and my guess is that they feel they can't balance the raven before they see it more in use. So they keep semi-buffing it in hopes for more Terrans actually using them.
This argument will not fly anywhere anymore. You are kidding yourself if you think progamers "haven't used them enough."
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On November 21 2012 11:21 Zoku wrote:
What exactly is the point of making psionic units immune to fungal. HT's and ghosts still can't get close enough to to feedback/emp infestors because of broodlords. All they've done it make midgame protoss stronger, while leave lategame zerg as still an issue. Seriously, do these guys even play or watch the game?
*Sigh*
Midgame protoss being stronger means that they can push and have a chance to reduce the infestor energy so that the late game isn't so unbearable. Late game protoss can also now get the feedbacks AND storms off when they go for their super air army and not worry about the infestors being able to fungal everything.
Same with terran (ESPECIALLY when zerg goes Ultra instead of Brood Lord) this makes bio waaaaay more viable since infestors don't just kill everything and the zerg has to make actual fighting units to protect the infestors instead of making infested terrans to protect the infestors.
Everyone also needs to remember that Ravens are NOT Psionic.
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On November 21 2012 11:24 LOLItsRyann wrote:
When you say immune to fungal, do you mean the root, or damage, or entire spell?
The whole damn thing, ghost just ignore fungle and can walk up and shoot infestors in the eye. You still need to deal with the zerglings and other non-sense, but ghost kinda mess zerglings up.
If this goes live, I am sure a professional player will abuse the hell out of it. Then we will all follow.
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On November 21 2012 11:27 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:23 monkybone wrote:On November 21 2012 11:21 avilo wrote:
Raven change does nothing. Blizzard is completely out of the loop or is too stubborn to really listen about why ravens suck. Sure, you don't research it now! Great! Absolutely nothing changes in the amount of time it takes for a raven to accumulate hunter seeker energy.
Quite disappointing. They always say this: they want to see more raven usage. Problem is that Terrans are just not using them enough, and my guess is that they feel they can't balance the raven before they see it more in use. So they keep semi-buffing it in hopes for more Terrans actually using them. This argument will not fly anywhere anymore. You are kidding yourself if you think progamers "haven't used them enough."
Here's their offical reasoning.
We’ve been discussing the design of the Seeker Missile for a while, and want to see it reach its potential. However, we don’t want to go overboard with the Raven. This change, if we settle on it, is something that will promote slightly more Raven usage, but shouldn’t completely rework the Terran late game
Sounds reasonable. Hopefully they'll further buff Ravens if it turns out not enough.
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On November 21 2012 11:24 desarrisc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:21 Zoku wrote:
What exactly is the point of making psionic units immune to fungal. HT's and ghosts still can't get close enough to to feedback/emp infestors because of broodlords. All they've done it make midgame protoss stronger, while leave lategame zerg as still an issue. Seriously, do these guys even play or watch the game? I originally thought of this, but if fungals DONT HIT AT ALL, warp prisms are considered psionic. Speed warp prisms with feedback/storm drops on infestors can be pretty amazing now. Also, cloaked ghosts can't be fungaled to decloak/raven seeker missiles are one of the few spells that can kill brood-infestors quite efficiently.
Sure, you can't fungal warp prisms, but that still doesn't deal with the fact that you can't kill the broodlord infestor army. You'll never be able to drop HTs and feedback infestors, as they'll have corrupters. Cloaked ghosts won't do much, as zergs will always have a few overseers with them.
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On November 21 2012 11:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:21 avilo wrote:
Raven change does nothing. Blizzard is completely out of the loop or is too stubborn to really listen about why ravens suck. Sure, you don't research it now! Great! Absolutely nothing changes in the amount of time it takes for a raven to accumulate hunter seeker energy.
Nothing also changes in terms of unit interactions/unit compositions. There was never a problem before "oh i don't have seeker missile research!" The problem is the time it takes to accumulate energy to make the raven pay itself off.
Quite disappointing. I know a lot of uninformed people here though will eat this up like candy and think something got better when it has not. One day I am going to compile all of avilo's quotes when it comes to balance changes and line them up. What would we learn? All balance changes have done nothing or hurt terran. At least he is consistent.
It's nice to attack someone instead of their valid points. Look at the change objectively. It reduces a 150/150 cost in terms of infrastructure/tech to be set up to get ravens.
What does it do to the unit interactions and how does it affect the amount of time it takes to accumulate seeker missile energy to make the raven a more reliable unit? Nothing.
Everything stays the same related to ravens in TvZ you just now save 150/150 and still die in the same way. If you think my points are not valid please elaborate.
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EPT
Psionic
