• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:31
CET 13:31
KST 21:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets3$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1825
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced WardiTV Winter Cup
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2319 users

Call to Action: Balance Testing (2012/11/20) - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
1876 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 92 93 94 Next
xAdra
Profile Joined July 2012
Singapore1858 Posts
November 21 2012 02:32 GMT
#41
On November 21 2012 11:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think the Raven change is a good idea; I don't think the Infestor change is enough.

But what the hell do I know; I'm primarily Protoss.

Still gonna check it out though and listen to the experts' feedback

Exactly this.

The Raven buff will allow for significantly faster HSM-ravens, and not just those that the army carry along and babysit like some detection whore. Interesting games, both played and watched.

The infestor still has another glaring issue: Infested Terrans. I say nerf both, not just fungal.

Will still wait for the better players to give their feedback.
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 02:33:33
November 21 2012 02:32 GMT
#42
sorry
Liquipedia
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 02:33:16
November 21 2012 02:32 GMT
#43
what happened;;
Liquipedia
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 21 2012 02:32 GMT
#44
On November 21 2012 11:24 desarrisc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 11:21 Zoku wrote:
What exactly is the point of making psionic units immune to fungal. HT's and ghosts still can't get close enough to to feedback/emp infestors because of broodlords. All they've done it make midgame protoss stronger, while leave lategame zerg as still an issue. Seriously, do these guys even play or watch the game?


I originally thought of this, but if fungals DONT HIT AT ALL, warp prisms are considered psionic. Speed warp prisms with feedback/storm drops on infestors can be pretty amazing now.

Also, cloaked ghosts can't be fungaled to decloak/raven seeker missiles are one of the few spells that can kill brood-infestors quite efficiently.


If only zerg had an early game anti air unit that they could mass without larva that could shoot down the warp prism....it would great if it only cost minerals as well..
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
November 21 2012 02:32 GMT
#45


Glad to see a step forward, however small and unimportant (tvz wise) it may be.Hopefully it will be not the last during the winter, as the ultra-expensive ghosts are still nullified by a single overseer along with the broodling wall, and ravens suck for other reasons.

On November 21 2012 11:23 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 11:21 avilo wrote:
Raven change does nothing. Blizzard is completely out of the loop or is too stubborn to really listen about why ravens suck. Sure, you don't research it now! Great! Absolutely nothing changes in the amount of time it takes for a raven to accumulate hunter seeker energy.

Quite disappointing.


They always say this: they want to see more raven usage.

Problem is that Terrans are just not using them enough, and my guess is that they feel they can't balance the raven before they see it more in use. So they keep semi-buffing it in hopes for more Terrans actually using them.


People don't use it in real games because they try it in practice and see how awful it is unless the Zerg has a seizure and forgets to pre split their army; assuming you can live long energy to acquire the energy (not often). Nobody likes using tools that rely on your opponent making unforced errors to work. pdd is usually a much better use of energy, though its the infested terrans that win it usually, not corruptors.

Terrans are the most innovative race in the game by far, which is why they've been nerfed so often. If they don't use something despite the obvious need for a new answer, there's probably a good reason why.
Liquipedia
Silky
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States260 Posts
November 21 2012 02:34 GMT
#46
Great watch out for sentry warp prism all ins now...zerg gets raped. I think this was a poor choice and I hope they realize the common sense lacking in their though process behind this. I'm ok with speed reduction instead of motionless or projectile, yet this isn't good. Sentries will be far more effective and I feel that in order to counter-act this, Blizzard should make the force field spell cost more or something relatively similar.
Have a good life
RiceAgainst
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States1849 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 02:38:56
November 21 2012 02:37 GMT
#47
Both changes seem a bit too much but we'll just have to see.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
November 21 2012 02:37 GMT
#48
On November 21 2012 11:07 juicyjames wrote:
Fungal Growth no longer affects Psionic units.
  • By making Psionic units immune to Fungal Growth, Infestors will need to be better protected by supporting units and will become somewhat more vulnerable to High Templar and Ghosts.

Quite a horrible way to try to fix things. Should this change go through, won't Zergs simply die to any 3-bases pre-BL timing, whether it's Zealots/Archons/Immortals/Sentries or Sentries/Stalkers/Colossi? Anyway, it will unfortunately not help that much HTs and Ghosts in closing the distance with Infestors, since BLs will still be able to kill them from afar before they reach Infestors (not to mention that mech doesn't get Ghosts anyway, and Raven isn't Psionic).

On November 21 2012 11:07 juicyjames wrote:
Raven Seeker Missile no longer requires an upgrade.
  • We’ve been discussing the design of the Seeker Missile for a while, and want to see it reach its potential. However, we don’t want to go overboard with the Raven. This change, if we settle on it, is something that will promote slightly more Raven usage, but shouldn’t completely rework the Terran late game.

Why not, though it will probably change more things in early game TvT than in lategame TvZ. Saving up 150/150 is always welcome but Raven play has other problems (time required, Fungal blocking Ravens, threat of a massive Ultralisk switch) which are left unaddressed by this change.
Protosnake
Profile Joined September 2011
France295 Posts
November 21 2012 02:39 GMT
#49
On November 21 2012 11:32 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 11:24 desarrisc wrote:
On November 21 2012 11:21 Zoku wrote:
What exactly is the point of making psionic units immune to fungal. HT's and ghosts still can't get close enough to to feedback/emp infestors because of broodlords. All they've done it make midgame protoss stronger, while leave lategame zerg as still an issue. Seriously, do these guys even play or watch the game?


I originally thought of this, but if fungals DONT HIT AT ALL, warp prisms are considered psionic. Speed warp prisms with feedback/storm drops on infestors can be pretty amazing now.

Also, cloaked ghosts can't be fungaled to decloak/raven seeker missiles are one of the few spells that can kill brood-infestors quite efficiently.


If only zerg had an early game anti air unit that they could mass without larva that could shoot down the warp prism....it would great if it only cost minerals as well..


Queens dont have the DPS or mobility to kill a warp prism
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
November 21 2012 02:40 GMT
#50
Always love seeing the pre-balance whining. Page after page of screaming that some change didn't go far enough, went too far, how it won't do anything, how it'll break the entire game, on and on and on.

And none of it means squat until people actual try it out.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Solarsail
Profile Joined July 2012
United Kingdom538 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 02:41:13
November 21 2012 02:40 GMT
#51
I can't believe they let this change affect DTs and Warp Prisms.

It could be cool but they haven't given a reason why they're in the scope.
Everyone left over is a member of the OP race and you have to figure out which one of them is the least OP. - CosmicSpiral
Viperbird
Profile Joined September 2010
United States118 Posts
November 21 2012 02:42 GMT
#52
So wait, sentries are not affected by fungal growth?
+ Show Spoiler +
So EG.Suppy's beatiful 1st game against ST_Parting is basically not gonna ever happen again?

I don't see this being good, the immortal/sentry push is gonna be way too good, and earlier infestors aren't gonna be the answer...
If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving!
SupItsG
Profile Joined March 2011
United States59 Posts
November 21 2012 02:42 GMT
#53
I think the infestor obviously is too strong but they are nerfing it in the wrong way. I think that dt's and warp prisms definitely should be able to be fungal'd. Sentries too. Archon and Mothership make more sense to be immune. High templar immunity is cool i suppose.
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 02:42:33
November 21 2012 02:42 GMT
#54
On November 21 2012 11:18 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 11:15 TaKeTV_SC2Pro wrote:
Antiga Ladder with Gold? WP Blizzard.


Probably the map that goes to the lategame the most or something.

Gotta be a reason why they keep using this map.

No way, Protoss has to 2 or 3 base all-in because taking a 4th isn't viable unless you have an insane lead any ways.
snively
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1159 Posts
November 21 2012 02:42 GMT
#55
sentries are psionic

YESSSSS

:D
My religion is Starcraft
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 02:42:46
November 21 2012 02:42 GMT
#56
On November 21 2012 11:40 Solarsail wrote:
I can't believe they let this change affect DTs and Warp Prisms.

It could be cool but they haven't given a reason why they're in the scope.


because blizzard made them classified as psionic early on for lore purposes..
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16117 Posts
November 21 2012 02:42 GMT
#57
My concerns about this proposed change revolve around the Warp Prism and Archon.

I feel like removing the Psionic tag from both of these units would make this fungal change much easier to swallow.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
ThePastor
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand380 Posts
November 21 2012 02:43 GMT
#58
Well the raven change kind of makes Muta's completely worthless, is this not just going to push zergs to either 'A' build more infestors (which should now be challenged fairly well with Ghosts) or 'B' rush broodlords asap? I love Mutas and this makes me sad
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4415 Posts
November 21 2012 02:43 GMT
#59
Zerg becomes incapable of holding a well controlled Protoss 3-base all-in if this change goes through. They really needed to do changes that ONLY affected the late game. All this is going to do is make killing before brood/infestor easier so we still won't see if it's actually possible for P to beat the composition.

The psionic change also barely effects TvZ which anyone who isn't extremely biased would admit is the bigger problem. Protoss has done fine overall in tournament play since the queen/ovie patch. Terran has done horribly. Literally MVP and Taeja are the only 2 terrans with great results since the queen patch.
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
November 21 2012 02:43 GMT
#60
I like the projectile so much more.
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 92 93 94 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
12:00
Group C
Creator vs Shameless
Shameless vs GuMiho
Shameless vs YoungYakov
Creator vs YoungYakov
Creator vs GuMiho
GuMiho vs YoungYakov
WardiTV451
TKL 6
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko61
TKL 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1187
Soma 556
BeSt 402
Mini 344
Hyun 320
Light 297
Snow 264
Hyuk 229
Last 226
hero 209
[ Show more ]
ZerO 201
Mong 179
Zeus 173
Rush 153
Pusan 82
Mind 72
Barracks 70
Aegong 63
Free 47
Sea.KH 39
GoRush 33
JYJ 31
soO 31
Icarus 29
Bale 24
Sacsri 23
HiyA 19
Noble 15
JulyZerg 14
Yoon 12
scan(afreeca) 6
Terrorterran 2
Dota 2
XcaliburYe108
ODPixel72
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1451
fl0m1232
x6flipin416
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King126
Other Games
summit1g6993
singsing1796
B2W.Neo881
Pyrionflax291
crisheroes213
XaKoH 212
Sick110
Gorgc77
ZerO(Twitch)3
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 925
• WagamamaTV357
League of Legends
• Jankos1470
• TFBlade657
• Stunt624
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
21h 29m
OSC
23h 29m
Jumy vs sebesdes
Nicoract vs GgMaChine
ReBellioN vs MaNa
Lemon vs TriGGeR
Gerald vs Cure
Creator vs SHIN
OSC
1d 23h
All Star Teams
2 days
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
All Star Teams
3 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-13
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.