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On November 21 2012 11:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I think the Raven change is a good idea; I don't think the Infestor change is enough. But what the hell do I know; I'm primarily Protoss. Still gonna check it out though and listen to the experts' feedback 
Exactly this.
The Raven buff will allow for significantly faster HSM-ravens, and not just those that the army carry along and babysit like some detection whore. Interesting games, both played and watched.
The infestor still has another glaring issue: Infested Terrans. I say nerf both, not just fungal.
Will still wait for the better players to give their feedback.
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United States2186 Posts
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United States2186 Posts
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On November 21 2012 11:24 desarrisc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:21 Zoku wrote:
What exactly is the point of making psionic units immune to fungal. HT's and ghosts still can't get close enough to to feedback/emp infestors because of broodlords. All they've done it make midgame protoss stronger, while leave lategame zerg as still an issue. Seriously, do these guys even play or watch the game? I originally thought of this, but if fungals DONT HIT AT ALL, warp prisms are considered psionic. Speed warp prisms with feedback/storm drops on infestors can be pretty amazing now. Also, cloaked ghosts can't be fungaled to decloak/raven seeker missiles are one of the few spells that can kill brood-infestors quite efficiently.
If only zerg had an early game anti air unit that they could mass without larva that could shoot down the warp prism....it would great if it only cost minerals as well..
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United States2186 Posts
Glad to see a step forward, however small and unimportant (tvz wise) it may be.Hopefully it will be not the last during the winter, as the ultra-expensive ghosts are still nullified by a single overseer along with the broodling wall, and ravens suck for other reasons.
On November 21 2012 11:23 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:21 avilo wrote:
Raven change does nothing. Blizzard is completely out of the loop or is too stubborn to really listen about why ravens suck. Sure, you don't research it now! Great! Absolutely nothing changes in the amount of time it takes for a raven to accumulate hunter seeker energy.
Quite disappointing. They always say this: they want to see more raven usage. Problem is that Terrans are just not using them enough, and my guess is that they feel they can't balance the raven before they see it more in use. So they keep semi-buffing it in hopes for more Terrans actually using them.
People don't use it in real games because they try it in practice and see how awful it is unless the Zerg has a seizure and forgets to pre split their army; assuming you can live long energy to acquire the energy (not often). Nobody likes using tools that rely on your opponent making unforced errors to work. pdd is usually a much better use of energy, though its the infested terrans that win it usually, not corruptors.
Terrans are the most innovative race in the game by far, which is why they've been nerfed so often. If they don't use something despite the obvious need for a new answer, there's probably a good reason why.
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Great watch out for sentry warp prism all ins now...zerg gets raped. I think this was a poor choice and I hope they realize the common sense lacking in their though process behind this. I'm ok with speed reduction instead of motionless or projectile, yet this isn't good. Sentries will be far more effective and I feel that in order to counter-act this, Blizzard should make the force field spell cost more or something relatively similar.
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Both changes seem a bit too much but we'll just have to see.
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On November 21 2012 11:07 juicyjames wrote:Fungal Growth no longer affects Psionic units.- By making Psionic units immune to Fungal Growth, Infestors will need to be better protected by supporting units and will become somewhat more vulnerable to High Templar and Ghosts.
Quite a horrible way to try to fix things. Should this change go through, won't Zergs simply die to any 3-bases pre-BL timing, whether it's Zealots/Archons/Immortals/Sentries or Sentries/Stalkers/Colossi? Anyway, it will unfortunately not help that much HTs and Ghosts in closing the distance with Infestors, since BLs will still be able to kill them from afar before they reach Infestors (not to mention that mech doesn't get Ghosts anyway, and Raven isn't Psionic).
On November 21 2012 11:07 juicyjames wrote:Raven Seeker Missile no longer requires an upgrade.- We’ve been discussing the design of the Seeker Missile for a while, and want to see it reach its potential. However, we don’t want to go overboard with the Raven. This change, if we settle on it, is something that will promote slightly more Raven usage, but shouldn’t completely rework the Terran late game.
Why not, though it will probably change more things in early game TvT than in lategame TvZ. Saving up 150/150 is always welcome but Raven play has other problems (time required, Fungal blocking Ravens, threat of a massive Ultralisk switch) which are left unaddressed by this change.
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On November 21 2012 11:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:24 desarrisc wrote:On November 21 2012 11:21 Zoku wrote:
What exactly is the point of making psionic units immune to fungal. HT's and ghosts still can't get close enough to to feedback/emp infestors because of broodlords. All they've done it make midgame protoss stronger, while leave lategame zerg as still an issue. Seriously, do these guys even play or watch the game? I originally thought of this, but if fungals DONT HIT AT ALL, warp prisms are considered psionic. Speed warp prisms with feedback/storm drops on infestors can be pretty amazing now. Also, cloaked ghosts can't be fungaled to decloak/raven seeker missiles are one of the few spells that can kill brood-infestors quite efficiently. If only zerg had an early game anti air unit that they could mass without larva that could shoot down the warp prism....it would great if it only cost minerals as well..
Queens dont have the DPS or mobility to kill a warp prism
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Always love seeing the pre-balance whining. Page after page of screaming that some change didn't go far enough, went too far, how it won't do anything, how it'll break the entire game, on and on and on.
And none of it means squat until people actual try it out.
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I can't believe they let this change affect DTs and Warp Prisms.
It could be cool but they haven't given a reason why they're in the scope.
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So wait, sentries are not affected by fungal growth?
+ Show Spoiler +So EG.Suppy's beatiful 1st game against ST_Parting is basically not gonna ever happen again?
I don't see this being good, the immortal/sentry push is gonna be way too good, and earlier infestors aren't gonna be the answer...
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I think the infestor obviously is too strong but they are nerfing it in the wrong way. I think that dt's and warp prisms definitely should be able to be fungal'd. Sentries too. Archon and Mothership make more sense to be immune. High templar immunity is cool i suppose.
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On November 21 2012 11:18 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 11:15 TaKeTV_SC2Pro wrote:
Antiga Ladder with Gold? WP Blizzard. Probably the map that goes to the lategame the most or something. Gotta be a reason why they keep using this map.
No way, Protoss has to 2 or 3 base all-in because taking a 4th isn't viable unless you have an insane lead any ways.
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sentries are psionic
YESSSSS
:D
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United States7166 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:40 Solarsail wrote:
I can't believe they let this change affect DTs and Warp Prisms.
It could be cool but they haven't given a reason why they're in the scope.
because blizzard made them classified as psionic early on for lore purposes..
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My concerns about this proposed change revolve around the Warp Prism and Archon.
I feel like removing the Psionic tag from both of these units would make this fungal change much easier to swallow.
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Well the raven change kind of makes Muta's completely worthless, is this not just going to push zergs to either 'A' build more infestors (which should now be challenged fairly well with Ghosts) or 'B' rush broodlords asap? I love Mutas and this makes me sad 
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Zerg becomes incapable of holding a well controlled Protoss 3-base all-in if this change goes through. They really needed to do changes that ONLY affected the late game. All this is going to do is make killing before brood/infestor easier so we still won't see if it's actually possible for P to beat the composition.
The psionic change also barely effects TvZ which anyone who isn't extremely biased would admit is the bigger problem. Protoss has done fine overall in tournament play since the queen/ovie patch. Terran has done horribly. Literally MVP and Taeja are the only 2 terrans with great results since the queen patch.
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I like the projectile so much more.
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EPT
