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Can't wait till a Zergie is in need of a win and starts to use his oversupply ability with Zerg. And suddenly there are 10 more infestors. There is so much more potential to broodlords and infestors still that Zerg players don't abuse, that it makes this combination really scary. Just recently they started using infested terrans like crazy.
I think with a nerf people will go away from this unit and won't show every problem it has. Some month ago almost no one would have seen Infested Terrans as a problem, because they weren't used. I just wish people would go all out with their unit control and not just do as much as they have to do in order to win. It often looks so inefficient and far from showing any balance problems.
Thanks alot for the translation, I like that they are slower with balance changes now and stopped changing balance because of one player, like they did before. Also thanks to the OP for bringing those interviews here.
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They refuse to make changes.. are they even working? Are they blind? The game will not move forward like this, it will remain stagnant and hardly evolve into a exciting game. Watching no rush 15's all day isn't really what I want to watch, I want to see exciting builds done. Not both players forced to go into a macro game because that's all that is viable. Glad I quit this game at masters, or I would be so frustrated to keep playing this game.
Also, they hope that the new reaper/widow mine is enough for terran in the new expansion...? Do they even expect terrans to keep playing in the new expansion? Why should I pay for ONE NEW UNIT AND CRAP UPGRADES? Blizzard just keeps disappointing me more and more lately. First they release Diablo III which isn't even finished developing and it takes ages for it to be even appealing to keep playing. They are on the right tracks NOW, but it should've been on the right tracks in development and beta or it shouldn't have been released. Now they refuse to make changes to WoL, NOT EVEN ADD NEW MAPS TO THE CURRENT SEASON and sell an expansion which isn't worth the money?
I wish Starcraft was in the hands of a capable company like Riot or Valve, who actually is transparent with their customerbase and makes it more engaging for the playerbase to keep playing. They even promote their e-sports events, unlike the measly stuff Blizzard does.
I'm so done with Blizzard.
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I dont understant the argument with "stats are showing its 50:50". It might be but its the games themselves what is botherig us. Yes protoss can 2base allin like a baws and if zerg is cought off guard pull off win. Or zerg is not caught off guard defends turtle bl inf and win because there is no chance for P to do anything about it.
Recently ive watched Stephano ladder and he didnt even bother attacking. He just kept expanding towards Protoss untill protoss gave up - there was nothing he could do. Probably the most BORING yet most SAFE (sad innit) games ive seen in while.
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Flipping a coin is 50-50. Doesn't mean it's fun to watch.
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On November 07 2012 15:04 Scila wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 14:13 TiberiusAk wrote:I'm going to look at the full half of the glass for a moment. They have thought about infestor-broodlord, and even made plans: If the dominance is present in both ZvP and ZvT, we are willing to reduce the range the fungal growth or reduce the radius. If this is only applicable to ZvP, we are willing to buff carriers by making interceptors immune to fungal growth. --David Kim I predict some or all of those changes will happen after WCS on the 17th (and if not then, perhaps after IPL5/GSL5 finals weekend). They will happen either because: a) the big tournaments have passed, so Blizzard will feel the timing is right to dabble in WoL balance changes again, or b) after those tournaments, the numbers will have shifted into zerg dominance. Blizzard will then happily hit their prepared nerf buttons. So Blizzard is deciding balance based on a couple of tournaments...someone better tell Taeja, MVP and Flash to start losing everything. Those guys play Terran right? I hope I didn't miss any other Terran players.
not really, but they seems to have caution about when to patch the game. we had stupid before finals patch before and blizzard got quite a bit flak for that. with a new finals coming every weekend, we gotta pick the right time to start ptr to net mess things up.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Oh wow Tylers video on carriers is going to be there buff xD not bad.
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So disappointed with how they're treating WoL when the game is in one of its worst states ever. They were quite happy to directly nerf snipe/khaydarin amulet when it was becoming just too strong and is used every game, now that infestors and broodlords are exceeding that they say they're not nerfing it directly? This is like saying they're making a new game and abandoning WoL... Lets not forget that there's still a proscene with WoL and the games where we see Z in lategame is becoming unbelievably familiar each time... The immobility of infestors bl is not even an issue when they can walk the spores/spines and win any base trades anyway. Can we please at least make them bleed if they walk off creep? Infestors at 2 supply is just imba for a unit that casts a great spell and can create an army that don't cost supply, how can they not see that? Consider 3 supply infestors maybe?
Either way it seems to me like WoL is getting abandoned. At this rate I might just not buy HotS in protest of Blizzard's treatment for it's predecessor. No wonder people are saying Starcraft 2 is dying, Blizzard did a bad job with Diablo 3 and now is abandoning SC2 which everyone worked so hard on to make it an e-sport to rival the glory of BW. Just sad... I used to love Blizzard so much.
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hm, iirc, didn't they nerf the ghost/snipe predominantely on MVP's dominace making use of it?! Also don't buy this 'tournament results are balanced' crap :/ What's accurate about a few players consistently showing good results in terms of overall balance?
Would be excited to finally see a raven buff make it through (but for WoL as well, please) 
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On November 07 2012 21:11 Creager wrote:hm, iirc, didn't they nerf the ghost/snipe predominantely on MVP's dominace making use of it?! Also don't buy this 'tournament results are balanced' crap :/ What's accurate about a few players consistently showing good results in terms of overall balance? Would be excited to finally see a raven buff make it through (but for WoL as well, please) i thought the ghost nerf was because it is unwanted that 1 units counters every t3 zerg unit. The infamous snipe scroll was one of the reasons for that.
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On November 07 2012 21:33 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 21:11 Creager wrote:hm, iirc, didn't they nerf the ghost/snipe predominantely on MVP's dominace making use of it?! Also don't buy this 'tournament results are balanced' crap :/ What's accurate about a few players consistently showing good results in terms of overall balance? Would be excited to finally see a raven buff make it through (but for WoL as well, please) i thought the ghost nerf was because it is unwanted that 1 units counters every t3 zerg unit. The infamous snipe scroll was one of the reasons for that.
Afaik infestor counters every single unit except siege tanks and colossi
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Wow great, these interviews give me even less hope for the future. Just because 1st place finishes seem balanced (which I don't think is true) does NOT mean that games are playing out in an ok fashion. And not doing anything about balance until HotS would be beyond awful.
Thanks a lot for the translations though. >_<
So many things said in these just don't make any sense... T_T
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Not buying HotS is the best you can do, really. Why support a team that adds gimmicks instead of fundamentals to an adversarial multiplayer game, doesn't fix fundamental issues with the game? A team that leaves LAN out of the game? Because, you know, small local tournaments have never been one of the cornerstones of a naturally healthy community?
Why support a team that is ever more clearly just goddamn blind?
Why support a team that turns the single-player campaign from a world-building three-factions-in-one epic into three separate things focused on stuff like moneyshot cinematics and overt focus on characters ("Who is Sarah Kerrigan?")? A team that doesn't care much for previous continuity?
Blizzard has never actually been great in making balanced multiplayer games. BW was an accident and tons of work by professional players playing ridiculous numbers of hours a day, supported by professional mapmakers. The thing Blizzard was always known for was building great (if not very original, but originality is grossly overrated) worlds and making good singleplayer campaigns. Stuff was polished and such. Those days are long gone. What do they do well anymore? I'd at least wait before buying HotS. Though I'd rather not buy it at all. Not because of some indignant boycotting (though nothing changes company behavior like a good ol' hit to the bottom line). But just because I don't want it. It feels wrong.
The leftover money is well spent - a few stupidly good burgers, a couple Magic decks (there's a very good all-commons tournament format nowadays), or, say, a basic Go board. At least a 3000 year old board game won't be patched anytime soon. Certainly not by giving Queens +2 range for no damn reason. Even if you dislike the free extra points white gets for going second, playing without those is at most 55-45 for black or so. And you still have to win with even tools instead of mass Infestors. There's a really good online client developing, too. And LAN. Hm. Sounds like an idea.
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The more I read about hots the less i actually want to buy it. While they add a lot of features to the game that are needed for a lon time, they way they see the gamplay and what they want with it makes this game a dead birth... Let's face it, the game seems to become even more retarded than it already is. I does make fun to play it, but in the long run those design flaws take away most of the fun again...
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On November 07 2012 21:43 Coffee Zombie wrote:
Not buying HotS is the best you can do, really. Why support a team that adds gimmicks instead of fundamentals to an adversarial multiplayer game, doesn't fix fundamental issues with the game? A team that leaves LAN out of the game? Because, you know, small local tournaments have never been one of the cornerstones of a naturally healthy community?
Why support a team that is ever more clearly just goddamn blind?
Why support a team that turns the single-player campaign from a world-building three-factions-in-one epic into three separate things focused on stuff like moneyshot cinematics and overt focus on characters ("Who is Sarah Kerrigan?")? A team that doesn't care much for previous continuity?
Blizzard has never actually been great in making balanced multiplayer games. BW was an accident and tons of work by professional players playing ridiculous numbers of hours a day, supported by professional mapmakers. The thing Blizzard was always known for was building great (if not very original, but originality is grossly overrated) worlds and making good singleplayer campaigns. Stuff was polished and such. Those days are long gone. What do they do well anymore? I'd at least wait before buying HotS. Though I'd rather not buy it at all. Not because of some indignant boycotting (though nothing changes company behavior like a good ol' hit to the bottom line). But just because I don't want it. It feels wrong.
The leftover money is well spent - a few stupidly good burgers, a couple Magic decks (there's a very good all-commons tournament format nowadays), or, say, a basic Go board. At least a 3000 year old board game won't be patched anytime soon. Certainly not by giving Queens +2 range for no damn reason. Even if you dislike the free extra points white gets for going second, playing without those is at most 55-45 for black or so. And you still have to win with even tools instead of mass Infestors. There's a really good online client developing, too. And LAN. Hm. Sounds like an idea.
Dont be stupid, the removal of LAN was decided way higher than just the Sc2 team.
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Its pretty sad what DK said about Korean Players´ Feddback,but we all understand it well.Why should any korean Pro play HotS?? If you must play in the GSL or MLG,would you really play Hots? That why they need to make the BETA open,to allow reall players to use it and try it on every level.Almost 2 months an no BETA for me,but OK.I suppose Terran Platinum EU doesnt deserve it.
There are so few HotS streams from Pros...Cant you see it Blizzard? Just let the BETA open and we will give you the Feedback you need.
Saying that BL+infestor ist really a issue in ladder is just stupid.Why tournaments results are so even? Because its not the same playing BO3 or BO5 as ladder.In ladder you can go same BO 40 games in row and will never face the same enemy.So you can go BL Infestor or ling roach bust every single game.Players must use different BOs in every game to try to catch enemy offguard. When you see P smash T in late game,dont you ever ask you why is the P player going for 1 base blink next game? If he would gone same late game combo,would win the MU and maybe the tournament,but Pros learn quick and look for weakness,so if you go same BO next game,meybe the otrher is gonna cheese and win.Thats why tournaments dont really represent the meta game I think...
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i dunno about raising the supply cost for zerg units, that just does not feel zergy to me (i am both a terran and zerg player, Hate protoss btw)
The right nerf to the Broodlord infestor corrupter is = little bit less damage from broodlord when it attacks, remove 1 armor from the corrupter and make infested terran be 35 energy instead of 25.
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So much talk about PvZ... But what about TvZ? Terrans have exactly the same problems as Protosses and no one seems to care about it at all. What is more, in HotS, Zergs late game got buffed, while Terran is untouched. Fail, David Kim.
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Nony's Carrier Video FTW!
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I agree that the "it's 50:50" response is a bit too short to really adress the problem..
let's leave out the actual win/loss statistics and believe DK in that they are 50:50
i feel one thing that they are overlooking, perhaps too much tunnelvision on w\l statistics.
BUT!!!
even if something has a 50:50 w/l that doesnt mean that its exciting.
what are the actual win/loss rates for when the zerg actually gets to tech to this composition? let's say how many times does a zerg lose when hes got 20 infestors and 8 broodlords? THATS what they should be looking at...
not the overall win\loss records that they keep mentioning, perhaps all the losses from zerg are because protoss is doing nothing but immortal allins because they feel that is their only chance to win???
now youve got a 50:50 matchup (balanced? no!)
not if its 100% win rate Immortal allin, and 100% winrate BL/infestor
of course i am exaggerating a little bit here but my point is the OVERALL win/loss percentages are not always a good indication of a balanced matchup.
i hope you understand what i am trying to say..
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On November 07 2012 21:02 Khai wrote:
So disappointed with how they're treating WoL when the game is in one of its worst states ever. They were quite happy to directly nerf snipe/khaydarin amulet when it was becoming just too strong and is used every game, now that infestors and broodlords are exceeding that they say they're not nerfing it directly? This is like saying they're making a new game and abandoning WoL... Lets not forget that there's still a proscene with WoL and the games where we see Z in lategame is becoming unbelievably familiar each time... The immobility of infestors bl is not even an issue when they can walk the spores/spines and win any base trades anyway. Can we please at least make them bleed if they walk off creep? Infestors at 2 supply is just imba for a unit that casts a great spell and can create an army that don't cost supply, how can they not see that? Consider 3 supply infestors maybe?
Either way it seems to me like WoL is getting abandoned. At this rate I might just not buy HotS in protest of Blizzard's treatment for it's predecessor. No wonder people are saying Starcraft 2 is dying, Blizzard did a bad job with Diablo 3 and now is abandoning SC2 which everyone worked so hard on to make it an e-sport to rival the glory of BW. Just sad... I used to love Blizzard so much.
What? It may be much easier to balance the game with adding new units than balancing WoL, and then trying to fit in the new units again and thus maybe having to re-redesign units.
i don't understand, they're not abandoning SC2
also everyone was complaining about them nerfing stuff too quickly (amulet BFH thor) and now people like you are saying you want a faster fix, they can't please everyone
he also mentioned it's possible to nerf infestors directly... he didn't say he 100% won't
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EPT
