This is just ridiculous.
Eclypsia cheating on stream audience - Page 13
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
This is just ridiculous. | ||
Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On October 10 2012 23:07 Inori wrote: sensationalist OP. - Streams are clearly visible. - One of the websites even has a description right next to stream. - Stream controls are easily accessible. If you don't get what's wrong with what they're doing, I sure can't help you.. | ||
Marou
Germany1371 Posts
People have been buying likes on facebook, followers on twitter, backlinks on websites for ever. It's blackhat SEO 101. I think Eclypsia was deceived with their stream numbers and wanted to get some traction. It's easier to gain more viewers/followers if you already have a lot of them, it makes you look legit. Sadly for them they got caught, and if Dailymotion get aware of this they will probably get punished for it. They played and they failed. Next time when they use such services they will try to hire better guys. I think this is a very interesting thread and now i'm wondering how many streamers are using those kind of services. I also wonder about the pricing. | ||
crms
United States11933 Posts
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
This is pretty standard internet advertising. I won't say that I'm a fan of pop-ups but I understand their value and have no problem with a team advertising their stream in this way. | ||
Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
/sarcasm off | ||
Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
On October 10 2012 12:15 jmbthirteen wrote: wait, you mean like this? http://i.imgur.com/OCjDl.jpg and http://i.imgur.com/YEWJW.png Is no one surprised here that the names scrolled over are ABC (first 3 letters of the alphabet) and ZXC(V) (first 4 letters of the bottom row of the keyboard?) If ~200k people are watching or something, it's not surprising that ~10 people would choose those sorts of account names. | ||
smileface
76 Posts
On October 11 2012 00:51 ShamW0W wrote: I'm so confused as to why this is a 'bad thing'. They're paying to advertise their stream, what did they do wrong there? If you go to a site, and the Eclypsia stream pops up, it was the site that coded how the stream appears and not Eclypsia. This is pretty standard internet advertising. I won't say that I'm a fan of pop-ups but I understand their value and have no problem with a team advertising their stream in this way. Teams market themselves to sponsors by showing how much interest the gaming community has in them. One of the ways to prove your popularity is to show stream numbers. "Look! dear sponsor X, there are 10k people on our stream!!!! If YOU would sponsor us, 10k people will see your logo ingame!!! how great is that???" and now... have 9.9k of those people be randoms that dont notice your stream and just let it run in the background... you tell me what is wrong with that | ||
bonse
125 Posts
Guys, grow up. There is nothing wrong with Eclypsia is doing. They are just advertising Stracraft to people who would otherwise never see it. If the price to make E-sports grow is that silly parameters like stream numbers will become meaningless than so be it. Sponsors will look for other things (like tournament winnings) in order to decide who to sponsor. | ||
Ruurk
France42 Posts
http://www.eclypsia.com/fr/ec/news-3297.html Translating is coming in the night. | ||
SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
On October 11 2012 01:29 Ruurk wrote: For people understanding french : I answered http://www.eclypsia.com/fr/ec/news-3297.html Translating is coming in the night. Can someone translate that right now? any france? | ||
Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On October 10 2012 22:09 Hexesport wrote: ><, i for one do not wish to support any moralistic witchhunt. I don't know how you can even think of saying something like this. Go and ruin others business plans without having anything to do with it yourself.Because we are the eSport community, and as one, if we want to see eSports grow in a good way, we have to share and enlight good and bad behaviours. We are the ones who make a team/player/caster hyped. Dailymotion is perfectly able to fend for itself. | ||
GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Calm
Canada380 Posts
http://www.eclypsia.com/en/ec/news-3297.html | ||
Calm
Canada380 Posts
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate: Hi all, Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site. I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia. It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh! On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now. This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it. On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned. Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank. During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ... We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal. We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market. The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports. - Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss. And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage. Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community. We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said: The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games. So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players. Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public: - Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ... We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience. It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so. Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ... Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page). You say it is a false public? I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain. How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus? We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers. Advertisers now? Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient. On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible. An example to better understand: Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game. In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice. I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note: Openness is not a skull fracture. Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes. I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support. Ruurk So it's an advertising strategy. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as sponsors are aware that the stream numbers are inflated. | ||
TR
2320 Posts
On October 10 2012 10:49 Cascade wrote: Hmm, I guess the real damage this does is that it devalues the worth of stream advertisement. If this becomes (is?) standard, advertisers know that 99.9% of their advertisements will be on a hidden muted stream, which will devalue a broadcasted advertisement a lot. So "legit" streamers trying to get stream money through real viewers will get a lot less money from smaller money per advertisement broadcasted. So hurting E-SPORTs all in all I guess. ![]() Also, wasn't virus finnish? No. Virus Gaming was french. | ||
Insoleet
France1806 Posts
On October 11 2012 01:46 Calm wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate: Hi all, Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site. I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia. It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh! On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now. This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it. On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned. Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank. During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ... We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal. We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market. The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports. - Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss. And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage. Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community. We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said: The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games. So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players. Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public: - Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ... We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience. It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so. Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ... Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page). You say it is a false public? I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain. How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus? We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers. Advertisers now? Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient. On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible. An example to better understand: Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game. In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice. I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note: Openness is not a skull fracture. Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes. I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support. Ruurk So it's an advertising strategy. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as sponsors are aware that the stream numbers are inflated. Same here. I'm glad they take care about what the community thinks. Good move here, EC ! | ||
soiii
Germany266 Posts
On October 10 2012 22:09 Hexesport wrote: Because we are the eSport community, and as one, if we want to see eSports grow in a good way, we have to share and enlight good and bad behaviours. Absolutly true and I think the guys who run this organisation do not seem to share those ideas. They only want to profit from the foundation that was build on those principles. | ||
Okawi
France2 Posts
On October 11 2012 01:58 Insoleet wrote: Same here. I'm glad they take care about what the community thinks. Good move here, EC ! Is this a good move ? Really ? I don't think so, EC is blaming us of destroying Esport with Adblock. They use intrusive stream, in autoplay without sound, on site where no one is interrested by Esport, and lessmore by Starcraft 2. Everything of that because they aren't able to do interessing things on their stream. You are like an EC-Franch-Fanboy and I don't really like that. | ||
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