The whole story started quite normally. As a big buzz news reader, I visit my favorite websites and spend most of my time slacking off in front of useless, yet fun videos (well, some of them are still of a use). Whilst browsing one of those websites (www.lesdebiles.com), I noticed that the Eclypsia's stream was embed on it, and hidden on top of that : the stream launches itself automatically and is muted when launched, thus giving them a lot of "zombie" (easy yet not alive) viewers. Even though I despise that team, I did not warn any one right off the bat. When I saw, at noon, the freshly created topic about it on team aAa's boards, It just pushed me toward writing a blog about them, to make sure that everyone understand that, even in the eSports, there is some dirty money
It's needless to say that many people visit those websites.From my point of view, eclypsia must have proposed them a rather simple deal : EC gives them money to get their stream embed in such way, but does it pays off? As a picture is worth a thousand words, here is a graph of the number of views on Eclypsia's stream.
Judging by the graph, they managed to get 11 000 times more views on their channel in two weeks. The saddest part is that even the Dailymotion staff do not seem to be aware of that. If they keep up that pace, they will catch up to millenium in a few week (millenium's channel is actually around 30 million views)
The fact is that, thanks to that unfair method, Eclypsia's viewers tend to think that their favorite structure is know by thousands, if not more, which is obviously not the fact. Not to mention all the guys that just want to watch fun stuff, and end up downloading a heavy stream without even knowing about it.
On top of that, Eclypsia is getting money from those viewers, as ads are displayed every time an embed is loaded. With that blog, I just wanted to reveal the truth about Eclypsia's methods, as they are one of the most dishonnest teams I've ever known about.
French teams aren't famous to be the most serious one (such as Virus who didn't paid their players, eSahara getting folled by fake players and stuff...).
Eclypsia was already known for bunch of dramas : april fool about players didn't got paid, weird marketing decision, all international players running away (some insights told refered to fake promises), most french players running away blaming head staff and abusive contracts (according to interviews on aAa), dota team's drama...
I'm not pretty sure that esports need this kind of teams who wants to "professionalize" and "revolutionize" the buisness in such shady ways...
PS: this isn't my real account, using a friend' smurf - thanks to him - i don't want any exposure or making dramas.
actually though, in security you can actually embed stuff and make people download stuff but not realize it too. so it's not as if this was entirely new.... >>
This is actually really funny, what is the purpose of this I can't see any long term benefits given the risk lol. Always liked most of the players just not the team T_T
Hmm, I guess the real damage this does is that it devalues the worth of stream advertisement. If this becomes (is?) standard, advertisers know that 99.9% of their advertisements will be on a hidden muted stream, which will devalue a broadcasted advertisement a lot. So "legit" streamers trying to get stream money through real viewers will get a lot less money from smaller money per advertisement broadcasted. So hurting E-SPORTs all in all I guess.
I dunno. It's clowny and unethical, but it's hard to see who's being hurt by this in the end. I guess I blame the sites embedding the stream more than I do the team involved. They're the ones making their visitors use a shitload of bandwidth on content they don't want.
Eclypsia really has no concern about their reputation do they? They always reveal to be scumbags in the end to the players and e-sports community. This is just another show of their sad attempts at being a "legitimate" team by boosting their stream views.
What does lying about such a thing mean? How does it benefit them in some concrete way? Besides obviously showing off their fake numbers to try and gain more sponsors (which is surely a big deal). Anything else?
On October 10 2012 10:50 ThE_OsToJiY wrote: I don't know why people think they can get away with this shit... eSports detective work is becoming a new profession --"
Can't we all just play Starcraft?
Yep. O wait, we need zombie revenue streams. Eclypsia, ho! =_=
On October 10 2012 10:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Reason #23902835 why Eclypsia is shady... >.>
What does lying about such a thing mean? How does it benefit them in some concrete way? Besides obviously showing off their fake numbers to try and gain more sponsors (which is surely a big deal). Anything else?
I just get this image of the :Eclypsia team manager as Nicolas Cage from Matchstick Men
On October 10 2012 10:50 ThE_OsToJiY wrote: I don't know why people think they can get away with this shit... eSports detective work is becoming a new profession --"
Can't we all just play Starcraft?
We should all chip in and buy KawaiiRice a detective hat and a pipe.
On October 10 2012 10:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Reason #23902835 why Eclypsia is shady... >.>
What does lying about such a thing mean? How does it benefit them in some concrete way? Besides obviously showing off their fake numbers to try and gain more sponsors (which is surely a big deal). Anything else?
I just get this image of the :Eclypsia team manager as Nicolas Cage from Matchstick Men
If only it was Nicolas Cage from The Wicker Man.
AAAAAAAUGH NOT THE BEES
KILLING ESPORTS WON'T BRING BACK YOUR PRECIOUS HONEY
Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
Oh. Yeah, I can see that, now. If this becomes common practice, ad revenue is going to go to hell. It'll wreck everyone's stream revenue, even if they're pulling tens of thousands.
Hmm, I don't suppose it could be construed as defrauding dailymotion/the advertisers in some way? After all, they're not actually providing what they get the revenue for.
hey guys what's up. From my point of view, it seems that eSports "may or may not" be the primary occupation of the owners of this organization. For the record that's just speculation, I don't have any evidence or anything.
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
I just find it hilarious that they're trying to inflate their viewer numbers this way. Even if there is no other damage or whatever, its amusing to see how far this team will go to put on the appearance of being popular
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
I just find it hilarious that they're trying to inflate their viewer numbers this way. Even if there is no other damage or whatever, its amusing to see how far this team will go to put on the appearance of being popular
Yeah. It's a bit sad, and it makes the entire idea of esports and pro-gaming teams look clownshoes, but it's hard to see who actually ends up hurt.
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
I just find it hilarious that they're trying to inflate their viewer numbers this way. Even if there is no other damage or whatever, its amusing to see how far this team will go to put on the appearance of being popular
Yeah. It's a bit sad, and it makes the entire idea of esports and pro-gaming teams look clownshoes, but it's hard to see who actually ends up hurt.
Eclypisa actually. They're only hurting themselves with this false data. .
Lol. How many times must we go through with threads on how.awedul these guys are? Just more proof I guess. Sorry for their players who have been cheated.
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
I just find it hilarious that they're trying to inflate their viewer numbers this way. Even if there is no other damage or whatever, its amusing to see how far this team will go to put on the appearance of being popular
Yeah. It's a bit sad, and it makes the entire idea of esports and pro-gaming teams look clownshoes, but it's hard to see who actually ends up hurt.
Eclypisa actually. They're only hurting themselves with this false data. .
Unless they're generating ad revenue. Wouldn't that constitute fraud?
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
I just find it hilarious that they're trying to inflate their viewer numbers this way. Even if there is no other damage or whatever, its amusing to see how far this team will go to put on the appearance of being popular
Yeah. It's a bit sad, and it makes the entire idea of esports and pro-gaming teams look clownshoes, but it's hard to see who actually ends up hurt.
As long as it is just a matter of few isolated incidents, I guess the advertisement devaluations isn't a big deal. Mainly a problem when the zombie viewers start to be a large fraction of all the viewers I'd say. I don't think (hope!) this is standard procedure in any way, so I'd say it's mainly sad as you say.
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
they're taking the ad company's money and not showing their ads to anyone
So they basic take money from advertise company's without showing the advertise. And that in not a clever way ( with this spike the streamsite will notice this instant)
On the other hand: they cheat the advertise company's. So i dont care. + Show Spoiler +
On October 10 2012 11:21 skeldark wrote: So they basic take money from advertise company's without showing the advertise. And that in not a clever way ( with this spike the streamsite will notice this instant)
On the other hand: they cheat advertise company's. So i dont care.
Yeah... fuck companies trying to get more exposure via paying for advertisements!
Oh, while we are at ot, are we allowed to make parallels to LoLs embedded streams and inflated views from people that actually didn't intend to view anything? As us noble starcraft players regard LoL players as being on the intellectual level of zombies, the terminology will intuitively cover that case as well. I know it's not the same thing, but drama threads are for ridiculous tangents and straw men right?
For whatever reason, this team never seemed destined to succeed. It often seemed as though the management had no clue as to what they were supposed to do, and I guess news like this isn't really surprising.
At the same time, it's a very competitive industry and maybe Eclypsia was feeling very pressured to put up some good numbers. But apparently in esports, Internet detective work can be not only quick but very damning, especially because of how closeknit and generally passionate the community tends to be.
On October 10 2012 11:21 skeldark wrote: So they basic take money from advertise company's without showing the advertise. And that in not a clever way ( with this spike the streamsite will notice this instant)
On the other hand: they cheat advertise company's. So i dont care.
Yeah... fuck companies trying to get more exposure via paying for advertisements!
But they're not paying for an ad. They could easily pay for an add and no one would complain. Think a little and see if you can tell the difference between this and an ad.
On October 10 2012 11:23 Cascade wrote: Oh, while we are at ot, are we allowed to make parallels to LoLs embedded streams and inflated views from people that actually didn't intend to view anything? As us noble starcraft players regard LoL players as being on the intellectual level of zombies, the terminology will intuitively cover that case as well. I know it's not the same thing, but drama threads are for ridiculous tangents and straw men right?
If you mean the embedded stream in the client, any advertiser would know it is embedded, and the reason that gets more views is people click on it when they open the game, not people don't realize it's open when doing something completely different..
On October 10 2012 11:11 Kasu wrote: Hmm, I don't suppose it could be construed as defrauding dailymotion/the advertisers in some way?
I doubt it, since DailyMotion would have had to agree to add the stream. It's not like Eclypsia is tricking them into anything.
Hmmm.. not quite convinced. Ecylpsia's end of the bargain is surely to provide views for the ads, which they aren't doing, therefore they are taking dailymotion's money and not giving them back what they agreed to do. Of course, its not really as if Dailymotion can force streamers to ensure people watch the ads, but I think this might be taking it a step too far.
On October 10 2012 11:15 Jaaaaasper wrote: LOL. I always thought they were incompetent rather than shady after the meme thing, but now its fairly obvious that they are shady as all bleep.
It's obviously incompetent shady since we are talking about it
On October 10 2012 11:21 skeldark wrote: So they basic take money from advertise company's without showing the advertise. And that in not a clever way ( with this spike the streamsite will notice this instant)
On the other hand: they cheat advertise company's. So i dont care.
Yeah... fuck companies trying to get more exposure via paying for advertisements!
But they're not paying for an ad. They could easily pay for an add and no one would complain. Think a little and see if you can tell the difference between this and an ad.
I totally forgot that many pro-gamer streams play ads as soon as you tune-in. It's because such white noise to me now lol.
On October 10 2012 11:21 skeldark wrote: So they basic take money from advertise company's without showing the advertise. And that in not a clever way ( with this spike the streamsite will notice this instant)
On the other hand: they cheat advertise company's. So i dont care.
Yeah... fuck companies trying to get more exposure via paying for advertisements!
But they're not paying for an ad. They could easily pay for an add and no one would complain. Think a little and see if you can tell the difference between this and an ad.
On October 10 2012 11:29 corpuscle wrote: Eclypsia is doing sketchy shit?
In other news, water is wet.
If Eclypsia was a country, it would be called the Bright Democratic Peoples Free Democracy of Eclypsia. They would have fair and free elections with a turnout of six million percent, and all the votes would go for the leader. There would be news reports of babies jumping out of wombs to vote, and then dancing on the street, jubilant at doing their part for the Great Free Government of Eclypsia.
Everyone would be rich, because the money would have SO MANY ZEROES on it. The money factories would print day and night. People would be so rich they could and would use money for campfires and as bedding and for food.
All other countries would be evil, and there would be daily news reports and megaspeaker broadcasts of this. They are jealous of Eclypsia, and the bright future of promise that Eclypsia rushed towards.
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
I just find it hilarious that they're trying to inflate their viewer numbers this way. Even if there is no other damage or whatever, its amusing to see how far this team will go to put on the appearance of being popular
And getting money from the ad views. If it was just for popularity, no. It wasn't.
Remember the topic on TL where some guy said "i love tl so much i just click on ads to give them money everybody do it!"
And then some guy came in the thread( i think rich) and said " this is ad fraud. Only click if you are interested."
In order for esports organizations to get ad money, they have to think that their addmis seen and if it is clicked on it's because someone is interested. Eclypsia is breaking dat and they should get sued because if add makers find out they can throttle down ad revenue
Actually, if I think about it, according to the graph, there should be (at least) four websites--- if you look, theres a several hundred thousand viewer increase for each of four days, which would be only possible if new websites were being added daily.
i.e.
(Oct 3, 0-200k viewers = at least one site added, Oct 4, 200-400k viewers = at least one site added, Oct 5, 400-580k viewers = at least one site added Oct 6, 580-1,050k viewers = at least one (major) site added (or multiple, or weekend view numbers on the (at least four) previous)
On October 10 2012 11:23 Cascade wrote: Oh, while we are at ot, are we allowed to make parallels to LoLs embedded streams and inflated views from people that actually didn't intend to view anything? As us noble starcraft players regard LoL players as being on the intellectual level of zombies, the terminology will intuitively cover that case as well. I know it's not the same thing, but drama threads are for ridiculous tangents and straw men right?
you still actually have to click on it for the stream to start
This is bad, all the streamers who are legit could get really screwed by this situation. Hopefully twitch or own3d, or whoever they are with puts a stop to this.
And here I was prepared to give them another chance. They even made a post on the dota reddit a while back saying they would show that they're a legit team. And now this. GG Eclypsia.
On October 10 2012 11:21 skeldark wrote: So they basic take money from advertise company's without showing the advertise. And that in not a clever way ( with this spike the streamsite will notice this instant)
On the other hand: they cheat advertise company's. So i dont care.
Yeah... fuck companies trying to get more exposure via paying for advertisements!
But they're not paying for an ad. They could easily pay for an add and no one would complain. Think a little and see if you can tell the difference between this and an ad.
Oh... I always presumed the companies had to pay to get advertised :o. Well then, I apologize and see your point if that's true.
On October 10 2012 12:02 Look A Distraction wrote: And here I was prepared to give them another chance. They even made a post on the dota reddit a while back saying they would show that they're a legit team. And now this. GG Eclypsia.
With stream number that high, they must be the legitest team around. The team with the highest stream viewest must be the most legitest one, right? Tbh I can't imagine any other team being legitester.
And memes, great idea! "We are a legit team, just watch!" "stream views increase by 100000%"
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
that's exactly what the image is implying. I don't think twitch shows viewers who aren't logged in in the viewer list. Certainly interesting images but I still dunno what I'm supposed to make of them.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Users without accounts are not shown in viewer list. Hence why a stream with ~50 viewers might only show ~25 in viewer list. And yes, that's pretty much what the screenshots are trying to say. If it's true or not, that's another question.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Riot is the same company that tried to strong arm teams into dropping DOTA2 right? I wouldn't doubt the use of any underhanded business from them after that. Especially with DOTA2 starting to emerge as the clear front runner in competitive MOBAs and viewer counts being pretty much the only thing going for LoL atm.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Users without accounts are not shown in viewer list. Hence why a stream with ~50 viewers might only show ~25 in viewer list. And yes, that's pretty much what the screenshots are trying to say. If it's true or not, that's another question.
I think we all need more proof that a couple of screen captures. If we are going to talk about fake data, photoshopping a chat lobby is not really rocket science. They are not forging the Mona Lisa.
Also, why would Riot log their fake views into chat? To increase the chances of people finding out about their fake viewers?
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Riot is the same company that tried to strong arm teams into dropping DOTA2 right? I wouldn't doubt the use of any underhanded business from them after that. Especially with DOTA2 starting to emerge as the clear front runner in competitive MOBAs and viewer counts being pretty much the only thing going for LoL atm.
Maybe, but this seems way to stupid to be true. They juiced the stream numbers with fake connections and then logged all those fake connections into chat for good measure? And they also gave them terrible names to anyone could tell those members in the chat were really bots?
I am willing to believe that Riot can behave badly. I find it harder to believe that their master plan of fraud was conceived by a hobo on the side of the road, half into a bottle of wild turkey.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Riot is the same company that tried to strong arm teams into dropping DOTA2 right? I wouldn't doubt the use of any underhanded business from them after that. Especially with DOTA2 starting to emerge as the clear front runner in competitive MOBAs and viewer counts being pretty much the only thing going for LoL atm.
Maybe, but this seems way to stupid to be true. They juiced the stream numbers with fake connections and then logged all those fake connections into chat for good measure? And they also gave them terrible names to anyone could tell those members in the chat were really bots?
I am willing to believe that Riot can behave badly. I find it harder to believe that their master plan of fraud was conceived by a hobo on the side of the road, half into a bottle of wild turkey.
Idk... for some reason the sheer stupidity and simplicity of the situation makes it more believable to me.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Riot is the same company that tried to strong arm teams into dropping DOTA2 right? I wouldn't doubt the use of any underhanded business from them after that. Especially with DOTA2 starting to emerge as the clear front runner in competitive MOBAs and viewer counts being pretty much the only thing going for LoL atm.
Maybe, but this seems way to stupid to be true. They juiced the stream numbers with fake connections and then logged all those fake connections into chat for good measure? And they also gave them terrible names to anyone could tell those members in the chat were really bots?
I am willing to believe that Riot can behave badly. I find it harder to believe that their master plan of fraud was conceived by a hobo on the side of the road, half into a bottle of wild turkey.
Consider that it might not be Riot doing it, I'm not really believing this crazy conspiracy but It's possible that someone else would do it.
This is actually a horrible thing for esports. Yes it is a temporary increase for Eclypsia and will garner them some income for now. But we really don't need this in our scene. This is awful for us. Most of the revenue in this world is from adrevenue and streaming revenue. Who's going to want to give out this free money when it's being garnered for not for actual views but dirty tricks like this. This could absolutely destroy our scene.
Eclysia needs to cut this out before it destroys everything we've worked for.
I don't want to sound overdramatic, but a lot of the scene depends entirely on this revenue. If people start to think this is somehow acceptable practice and follow suit corporations are going to stop sponsoring or sponsoring to the extent they are right now. Its dangerous territory.
For a scene like ours, which is still in its infancy, it's not a reputation we can afford to garner. Once these companies stop trusting teams and esports in general they're not very easily going to reverse they policies and say, hey, you guys are sorry, so we'll start giving you free money again. Business doesn't work like that. You ruin your credit, you're going to have a tough time repairing it.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Riot is the same company that tried to strong arm teams into dropping DOTA2 right? I wouldn't doubt the use of any underhanded business from them after that. Especially with DOTA2 starting to emerge as the clear front runner in competitive MOBAs and viewer counts being pretty much the only thing going for LoL atm.
Maybe, but this seems way to stupid to be true. They juiced the stream numbers with fake connections and then logged all those fake connections into chat for good measure? And they also gave them terrible names to anyone could tell those members in the chat were really bots?
I am willing to believe that Riot can behave badly. I find it harder to believe that their master plan of fraud was conceived by a hobo on the side of the road, half into a bottle of wild turkey.
Consider that it might not be Riot doing it, I'm not really believing this crazy conspiracy but It's possible that someone else would do it.
Someone who would benefit from destroying Riot's reputation... like... Blizzard.
On October 10 2012 12:30 Torte de Lini wrote: This is downright pathetic.
but so fucking smart.
It would be smart if they, say, doubled or tripled their viewership incrementally. 11,000 fold in a week is a bit much.
maybe he means it's a smart way to attract sponsors (provided they're not caught) or a smart way to generate drama and promote their brand... I don't think it's a particularly smart way to pursue either of those aims.
I don`t think anyone is surprised since it is Eclypsia. Sigh, I wish teams like this would just go away for good... teams like this always make me doubt newly created teams in the foreign scene.
This did not surprise me in the least. Makes me think Eclypsia is a worse version of Sixjax, although I did never get all the details regarding the last few months of Sixjax's existence, so, maybe not.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Apparently, these viewers are real Justin/Twitch accounts. I have no idea why a game client would need to log into a remote Twitch.tv account in order to view a stream. Or why a viewer who isn't logged in would have to be listed as a random Twitch account. Then again, I know next to nothing about all that computer science stuff. Maybe somebody else can elaborate.
The only time I ever hear about this team is when they are fucking up. It's actually all they can do to get any attention whatsoever. So perhaps... mission accomplished?
On October 10 2012 10:49 Cascade wrote: Hmm, I guess the real damage this does is that it devalues the worth of stream advertisement. If this becomes (is?) standard, advertisers know that 99.9% of their advertisements will be on a hidden muted stream, which will devalue a broadcasted advertisement a lot. So "legit" streamers trying to get stream money through real viewers will get a lot less money from smaller money per advertisement broadcasted. So hurting E-SPORTs all in all I guess.
Also, wasn't virus finnish?
Virus was French but just happened to have a lot of finnish players in their roster.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Apparently, these viewers are real Justin/Twitch accounts. I have no idea why a game client would need to log into a remote Twitch.tv account in order to view a stream. Or why a viewer who isn't logged in would have to be listed as a random Twitch account. Then again, I know next to nothing about all that computer science stuff. Maybe somebody else can elaborate.
I'm just guessing here, but maybe the game client want some features like follow, history, upload your own VODs and so on, that is easiest for them to do through creating a twitch account that can be accessed through the game client. When LOL player "ImSoPr0" first time sees a stream through the client and automatically get an account created, maybe the name "ImSoPr0" is already used on twitch though, so the game client just makes up a new name, like abc239865, and then internally links that the LOL player ImSoPr0 has that twitch account.
Result would then be that people watching (or having stream on at least..) through their LOL client show up as abc34845, and these accounts are still "legit" in the sense that they actually belong to a person.
But again, just guessing. If these accounts are just people watching through the client, I don't think it's really fair to compare lols "inflated" stream views with the sudden x11000 viewers here though.
On October 10 2012 13:37 MountainDewJunkie wrote: The only time I ever hear about this team is when they are fucking up. It's actually all they can do to get any attention whatsoever. So perhaps... mission accomplished?
On October 10 2012 13:30 plasmidghost wrote: This did not surprise me in the least. Makes me think Eclypsia is a worse version of Sixjax, although I did never get all the details regarding the last few months of Sixjax's existence, so, maybe not.
On October 10 2012 11:06 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Cute trick. What precisely does it do though, that makes it that bad? I get that it eats up your internet connection and that it's shady, but does it do something worse than that? At the moment, I just view it as a cute trick that is somewhat underhanded, but doesn't necessarily do any significant damage to anyone.
It devalues stream advertising.
To play devil's advocate a bit, so what? Who really ends up getting hurt?
The people who are trying to make a living or some source of income off it and they certainly don't deserve that.
I remember a few months back an article came out about Eclypsia being funded by revenue from porn sites that takes a journey through several fronts and ends up with them. It was in French though z_z
On October 10 2012 14:52 Whitewing wrote: I'm not sure who this hurts or why this is a big deal, but at the same time, it just feels.... slimy.
Internet Advert revenue are essentially a commons, lots of people use streams and google adds / banners to make a living, adding more for yourself doesn't seem to detract from the world at all. But the venue just loses legitimacy and advertisers will eventually catch on to shit like this, only reason why advertisers don't get up in arms about it is because it's extremely difficult to measure the effectiveness of advertising. It also wastes bandwidth / upkeep / electricity if you care about that sort of a thing.
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Apparently, these viewers are real Justin/Twitch accounts. I have no idea why a game client would need to log into a remote Twitch.tv account in order to view a stream. Or why a viewer who isn't logged in would have to be listed as a random Twitch account. Then again, I know next to nothing about all that computer science stuff. Maybe somebody else can elaborate.
I'm just guessing here, but maybe the game client want some features like follow, history, upload your own VODs and so on, that is easiest for them to do through creating a twitch account that can be accessed through the game client. When LOL player "ImSoPr0" first time sees a stream through the client and automatically get an account created, maybe the name "ImSoPr0" is already used on twitch though, so the game client just makes up a new name, like abc239865, and then internally links that the LOL player ImSoPr0 has that twitch account.
Result would then be that people watching (or having stream on at least..) through their LOL client show up as abc34845, and these accounts are still "legit" in the sense that they actually belong to a person.
But again, just guessing. If these accounts are just people watching through the client, I don't think it's really fair to compare lols "inflated" stream views with the sudden x11000 viewers here though.
Ahhhh, ok. That would make sense. I don't play League of Legends, so I have no idea. Thanks for the insight.
I'm surprised so many people are saying there's nothing wrong with this- it totally devalues advertising on streams if stream viewing numbers become meaningless.
Its like selling a washing machine (opening up stream) when you just want to buy that magazine abo (view the website). Better read the fine print (source code). :/ What a shady business. In real life, they would need to get in front of a court...
what are those screenshots of though? "viewer list"? most people watching are not logged in. maybe it's identifying people who don't log in.
i feel like the image is implying that Riot created a lot of twitch.tv accounts and logs them all in and has them watch LoL streams but that is unnecessary to boost viewer counts. so im not sure what im looking at there
Couldn't they just be viewers logged in through the LoL client? I feel that is far more likely that Riot juicing the numbers. That sounds like a terrible plan that would ruin their relationship with twitch and anyone selling ads during their events. It just sounds way to stupid for them to have all the "fake users" logged into with names like A7584021.
Apparently, these viewers are real Justin/Twitch accounts. I have no idea why a game client would need to log into a remote Twitch.tv account in order to view a stream. Or why a viewer who isn't logged in would have to be listed as a random Twitch account. Then again, I know next to nothing about all that computer science stuff. Maybe somebody else can elaborate.
I'm just guessing here, but maybe the game client want some features like follow, history, upload your own VODs and so on, that is easiest for them to do through creating a twitch account that can be accessed through the game client. When LOL player "ImSoPr0" first time sees a stream through the client and automatically get an account created, maybe the name "ImSoPr0" is already used on twitch though, so the game client just makes up a new name, like abc239865, and then internally links that the LOL player ImSoPr0 has that twitch account.
Result would then be that people watching (or having stream on at least..) through their LOL client show up as abc34845, and these accounts are still "legit" in the sense that they actually belong to a person.
But again, just guessing. If these accounts are just people watching through the client, I don't think it's really fair to compare lols "inflated" stream views with the sudden x11000 viewers here though.
Ahhhh, ok. That would make sense. I don't play League of Legends, so I have no idea. Thanks for the insight.
I don't play lol either. Again, I'm only guessing around. My only information is that, if I've understood correctly, there is some ingame thing in lol that allows people to watch pro stream. Someone actually playing the game could confirm, but I guess it isn't really important, so nevermind.
Let's make fun of that chart instead.
Did they get a good looking girl on the team and she promised to undress at one million viewer?
After all the shit the pulled at their beginning, one could almost think that the Eclypsia "organization" would have become somewhat reputable now, but obviously they haven't.
There are few things I hate more than the culturally accepted lies and deception euphemistically called advertising. Then again I doubt Eclypsia is trying to make a political point here, so this is basically just fraud and the fact that the primary victims are fraudsters themselves doesn't really make it right.
On October 10 2012 14:52 Whitewing wrote: I'm not sure who this hurts or why this is a big deal, but at the same time, it just feels.... slimy.
It could hurt teams like Millenium/aAa/O'gaming(aka Iron Squid staff) who work very hard in France to provide a good streaming content.
If they have to speak with a sponsor, they'll show the digit from their streams saying "See, we have many viewers everyday, with us, you could show your stuff to your main marketing target : french gamers".
And the sponsor to answer "Well...300k viewer a month, not bad, but sorry, Eclypsia makes 1 million a day, you know...it's better for us to work with them"
I don't agree with people in this thread saying that this is somehow funny. This is potentially a reason why good streamers only get a few cents per ad they run. If an ad-provider think stuff like this is going on they will have to reduce the payment per ad, meaning less money coming to those that need it the most. I would like to argue that this is fraud and that Eclypsia is ripping off both the ad-providers and possibly others that stream for a living.
Might be an overreaction but it is really shady and if they do make money from ads being showed like this they do rip of someone money that could have been used better.
I don't agree with people in this thread saying that this is somehow funny. This is potentially a reason why good streamers only get a few cents per ad they run. If an ad-provider think stuff like this is going on they will have to reduce the payment per ad, meaning less money coming to those that need it the most. I would like to argue that this is fraud and that Eclypsia is ripping off both the ad-providers and possibly others that stream for a living.
Might be an overreaction but it is really shady and if they do make money from ads being showed like this they do rip of someone money that could have been used better.
This is obviously a crime, and it's hurting esports. I'd like to see them sued.
This is just sad. Eclypsia could've been something, but instead chose to use trickery to try and get ahead. I hope people can learn a lesson from this and not make the same mistakes in the future.
Actually I think it's a good way to attract people who otherwise would not open a starcraft stream. They go to those websites to be entertained, they see the stream and if the casting is engaging enough they might be hooked. The number of views means nothing. I never saw Eclypsia bragging about the number of views, it's reddit ppl who have nothing better to do than compare viewer numbers among channels. I don't think Eclypsia needs to make a living out of Twitch money, and in any case, Twitch.tv should know not to give money for viewers who have the stream very small, or not even active (that is running in the background)
People do this all the time. You'll see embedded movie ads and shit on pages on the not-quite-as-legit websites every day. It's actually really annoying, because everywhere I've seen an embedded movie ad I couldn't mute it. Then they usually did a full-page ad as well, so I'd soon be able to punch a hole in my wall than mute anything going on. Easy way to ruin a day.
So...they're actually not stealing money from anyone. The ad revenue is legit (someone saw that ad, didn't they?) and stream views are technically legit. It's an accepted business practice to embed ads on sites. The only difference is that this is an Eclypsia stream, which no one liked in the first place. I'd like to see the criminal/civil case all of these TL/Reddit detectives would levy against the team.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's shady as fuck. But you're not going to get them to stop because it's illegal. If you start the usual Reddit pitchfork/sponsor/vigilante drama, then sure, maybe. But other than that, you haven't exactly caught Kingpin with his hand in the cookie jar.
Very common in the web industry. Almost every major news website are charging pages behind the one you are seeing in order to get more clicks. Eclypsia seems to have a lot of educated web designer so it doesn't surprise me.
I don't really understand all the ruckus about this ...
kind of shady but that's capitalism for you, I'm sure if EG got idra's stream on the first page of youtube and it autoplayed it would be considered good marketing
On October 10 2012 16:42 ShotgunMike wrote: I don't agree with people in this thread saying that this is somehow funny. This is potentially a reason why good streamers only get a few cents per ad they run. If an ad-provider think stuff like this is going on they will have to reduce the payment per ad, meaning less money coming to those that need it the most. I would like to argue that this is fraud and that Eclypsia is ripping off both the ad-providers and possibly others that stream for a living.
Might be an overreaction but it is really shady and if they do make money from ads being showed like this they do rip of someone money that could have been used better.
You are of course right that this is not good for ESPORTS etc. And I also agree on your last note that this single (I hope!) incident is maybe not THAT big of a deal. Not that it should go ignored, but it hopefully shouldn't do significant damage to the scene at a large scale.
Don't see why it can't be funny at the same time though, the way they got caught with the hand - no a shovel and wheelbarrow - in the cookie jar and that chart suddenly jumping of to many thousand times before.
"The community finds it suspicious with your suddenly increased stream numbers." "We just put some more effort into providing better content, which payed of with increased view numbers." "There are 11,000 times as many viewers not compared to a few weeks ago." "We just have that good content now. You should go check out our streams." Legit! :D
On October 10 2012 18:19 Mauldo wrote: People do this all the time. You'll see embedded movie ads and shit on pages on the not-quite-as-legit websites every day. It's actually really annoying, because everywhere I've seen an embedded movie ad I couldn't mute it. Then they usually did a full-page ad as well, so I'd soon be able to punch a hole in my wall than mute anything going on. Easy way to ruin a day.
So...they're actually not stealing money from anyone. The ad revenue is legit (someone saw that ad, didn't they?) and stream views are technically legit. It's an accepted business practice to embed ads on sites. The only difference is that this is an Eclypsia stream, which no one liked in the first place. I'd like to see the criminal/civil case all of these TL/Reddit detectives would levy against the team.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's shady as fuck. But you're not going to get them to stop because it's illegal. If you start the usual Reddit pitchfork/sponsor/vigilante drama, then sure, maybe. But other than that, you haven't exactly caught Kingpin with his hand in the cookie jar.
On October 10 2012 18:21 Otolia wrote: Very common in the web industry. Almost every major news website are charging pages behind the one you are seeing in order to get more clicks. Eclypsia seems to have a lot of educated web designer so it doesn't surprise me.
I don't really understand all the ruckus about this ...
This is kind of what I'm thinking... If they're getting people to watch see their stream adds (even if it's just single views) isn't that what the sponsor really wants?
I understand that you can't judge the size of their following based on this, but I don't really see the "cheating" here. Am I missing why other organizations aren't doing this?
On October 10 2012 18:19 Mauldo wrote: So...they're actually not stealing money from anyone. The ad revenue is legit (someone saw that ad, didn't they?) and stream views are technically legit. It's an accepted business practice to embed ads on sites. The only difference is that this is an Eclypsia stream, which no one liked in the first place. I'd like to see the criminal/civil case all of these TL/Reddit detectives would levy against the team.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's shady as fuck. But you're not going to get them to stop because it's illegal. If you start the usual Reddit pitchfork/sponsor/vigilante drama, then sure, maybe. But other than that, you haven't exactly caught Kingpin with his hand in the cookie jar.
The ad revenues isn't legit, nobody saw the add and it was played in the background. It's the equivalent of some streamers just going afk and playing ad after ad because they know people watching want to support them or don't care. It devalues the ads for everyone else. It's standard business practice to embed visible ads, not invisible ones running in the background that you can't mute.
On October 10 2012 18:19 Mauldo wrote: So...they're actually not stealing money from anyone. The ad revenue is legit (someone saw that ad, didn't they?) and stream views are technically legit. It's an accepted business practice to embed ads on sites. The only difference is that this is an Eclypsia stream, which no one liked in the first place. I'd like to see the criminal/civil case all of these TL/Reddit detectives would levy against the team.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's shady as fuck. But you're not going to get them to stop because it's illegal. If you start the usual Reddit pitchfork/sponsor/vigilante drama, then sure, maybe. But other than that, you haven't exactly caught Kingpin with his hand in the cookie jar.
The ad revenues isn't legit, nobody saw the add and it was played in the background. It's the equivalent of some streamers just going afk and playing ad after ad because they know people watching want to support them or don't care. It devalues the ads for everyone else. It's standard business practice to embed visible ads, not invisible ones running in the background that you can't mute.
^^^ This, but worse. This is a lot more like "click" fraud against advertising networks. It also is going to slap anyone that visits those sites and has a bandwidth cap. It's unethical, and possibly illegal in some jurisdictions.
Why? Becaust it is NOT the same as just running a stream with nothing going on but ads. In that event, people watching the stream will at least see the ads. This is the same as loading a metric tonne of ads in a hidden iFrame, and then charging (or being paid by the ad network) for the number of people that "saw" the ads. Except they never did, because the ads themselves are not visible. It's getting paid on the premise that you are providing advertising exposure, while never actually providing that exposure. It's the kind of behavior I'd expect out of a blackhat hacker or shady torrent/porn/drive-by malware infection site. (Not all torrent or pr0n sites are shady.) It's a form of fraud, getting paid for providing a service you aren't providing.
It also destroys any confidence an advertising provider may have in the industry, ie it hurts eSports since eSports as an industry is heavily reliant on sponsorship and advertising to fuel the freemium model. I guess people that don't see the problem love PPV?
TL;dr - it's like paying a company to promote an event, and they charge you for producing and posting a huge ad campaign. Except they posted it in a locked, windowless warehouse and don't let anyone in. Eclypsia - hurting eSports.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really see much wrong with this. Websites like to provide content they beleive their viewers will be interested in. I don't think that what they are doing is anything worse than expossing their product (which happens to be SC2) to a larger audience. There are not too many French streams of SC2 yet France has one of the best progammers in the world. Larger audience exposed to SC2- we must condemn them for spreading esports and putting SC2 on more users screens. Please I want to see more teams doing this its the whole point of advertising show someone something that interests them and allow them the choice to click and find out more, but them again I might have this completely wrong, as I say I don't see anything wrong with advertising you product.
On October 10 2012 19:31 britneysbeers wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really see much wrong with this. Websites like to provide content they beleive their viewers will be interested in. I don't think that what they are doing is anything worse than expossing their product (which happens to be SC2) to a larger audience. There are not too many French streams of SC2 yet France has one of the best progammers in the world. Larger audience exposed to SC2- we must condemn them for spreading esports and putting SC2 on more users screens. Please I want to see more teams doing this its the whole point of advertising show someone something that interests them and allow them the choice to click and find out more, but them again I might have this completely wrong, as I say I don't see anything wrong with advertising you product.
They arent exposing thier product, they are using hidden imbeds to inflate thier viewer count. If this is generating ad revenue for phantom viewers through their stream provider, this is fraud.
On October 10 2012 19:31 britneysbeers wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really see much wrong with this. Websites like to provide content they beleive their viewers will be interested in. I don't think that what they are doing is anything worse than expossing their product (which happens to be SC2) to a larger audience. There are not too many French streams of SC2 yet France has one of the best progammers in the world. Larger audience exposed to SC2- we must condemn them for spreading esports and putting SC2 on more users screens. Please I want to see more teams doing this its the whole point of advertising show someone something that interests them and allow them the choice to click and find out more, but them again I might have this completely wrong, as I say I don't see anything wrong with advertising you product.
Did you even bother to read the OP? Concluding from your post you didn't, maybe consider doing it so you know how dumb your post was.
On October 10 2012 18:19 Mauldo wrote: So...they're actually not stealing money from anyone. The ad revenue is legit (someone saw that ad, didn't they?) and stream views are technically legit. It's an accepted business practice to embed ads on sites. The only difference is that this is an Eclypsia stream, which no one liked in the first place. I'd like to see the criminal/civil case all of these TL/Reddit detectives would levy against the team.
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's shady as fuck. But you're not going to get them to stop because it's illegal. If you start the usual Reddit pitchfork/sponsor/vigilante drama, then sure, maybe. But other than that, you haven't exactly caught Kingpin with his hand in the cookie jar.
The ad revenues isn't legit, nobody saw the add and it was played in the background. It's the equivalent of some streamers just going afk and playing ad after ad because they know people watching want to support them or don't care. It devalues the ads for everyone else. It's standard business practice to embed visible ads, not invisible ones running in the background that you can't mute.
Sorry but it's legit. If you open a tab you can see the ad. For me it's smart.
since when getting your stream in frontpage of a website is not legit ? i think its a good way to get viewers and expose your product... its liek saying that getting an advertisement in first page of website is not legit
I thought of the same thing around 2008 when I was trying to come up with ways to inflate the number of viewers on a video game stream. But it was just a brainstorm and I knew it would ultimately be a bad idea because it would damage the reputation of the stream, which I knew they cared more about than ad revenue at the time.
On October 10 2012 19:45 GizmoPT wrote: since when getting your stream in frontpage of a website is not legit ? i think its a good way to get viewers and expose your product... its liek saying that getting an advertisement in first page of website is not legit
I'm french, and sadly i've to say that since this team appeared it's again and again a fu***ng shame for french eSports. I'm not even surprised, they dont care at all about fans or even ethics. They showed it already a lot of times using silly ways to "ascend" on esports, only in order to make money.
I just hope EC will fall down asap, cause they are ruining gaming, from the first day they just made french esports worst and worst. And they are so mad at millenium lol
On October 10 2012 19:31 britneysbeers wrote: Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't really see much wrong with this. Websites like to provide content they beleive their viewers will be interested in. I don't think that what they are doing is anything worse than expossing their product (which happens to be SC2) to a larger audience. There are not too many French streams of SC2 yet France has one of the best progammers in the world. Larger audience exposed to SC2- we must condemn them for spreading esports and putting SC2 on more users screens. Please I want to see more teams doing this its the whole point of advertising show someone something that interests them and allow them the choice to click and find out more, but them again I might have this completely wrong, as I say I don't see anything wrong with advertising you product.
Did you even bother to read the OP? Concluding from your post you didn't, maybe consider doing it so you know how dumb your post was.
Farewell Eclysia and may you rott in hell.
I did read the first post and even went to the website, where I saw an embedded game stream playing on the front page. Which is why I said I didn't see anything wrong. I could not find any hidden stream playing- hence my confusion- perhaps you could post a screen shot of what it is I am missing.
On October 10 2012 15:03 LeapofFaith wrote: What has happened before that has made Eclypsia look shady?
Them not paying players the promised salary, not keeping in contact with the players, etc.
Didnt Welmu and rest said that they got their salaries, not too little.
It was just funny april day fool that tricked 90% readers. It was so funny to read them.
And this amateur part of team Desrow, scarlett etc. (Back then!) left coz team didnt wanted to fly them to Korea. I realy thought and agree still why to send noobs to korea?
What I don't understand is how players can stay on their team after everything that's been happening to Eclypsia. I'm curious to finding out what makes players like SjoW and Welmu stay...
I go onto the les site and I find a girl being raped by a dog :/
ok back on topic.
This is stupid. EC should stop being so wanting and just deal with what is reality >.<
Its based on your search cookies
loool sick build FXOBoSs
LOL it's like that guy who complained in feedback forum about getting porn sites in the ads.
Sorry to rain on the parade, but its actually just a compilation video which the title of "funny dog fails"(translated very loosely from French), which the thumbnail of which, is a picture of a dog mounting a woman (who is fully clothed) on all fours. Now after that long justification, its going to sound like I'm really into dog fucking, but assure you otherwise.
On October 10 2012 20:07 phil.ipp wrote: you could not find a hidden stream? are you trolling?
do you understand the meaning of the word "hidden"
No I am not trolling. I just don'y understand how a website is streaming content to my pc without me knowing it. Obviously I don't want content being streamed to my pc at work which might end up with me having temp files stored for example p0rn, which I know nothing about and can lose my job for.
On October 10 2012 20:07 phil.ipp wrote: you could not find a hidden stream? are you trolling?
do you understand the meaning of the word "hidden"
No I am not trolling. I just don'y understand how a website is streaming content to my pc without me knowing it. Obviously I don't want content being streamed to my pc at work which might end up with me having temp files stored for example p0rn, which I know nothing about and can lose my job for.
I think adblock and noscript should still catch it, but if it's from some legit site like twitch, you have no way to know it unless you are monitoring your traffic
I doubt the people who go to these sites are the ones sponsors have as a target audience when they choose to sponsor a cybersports team. That's really my only concern for this method, because its all about numbers. If these viewers are 'ok' for the sponsors (as in the age group is good enough for them) then I don't see much of a problem for these teams in terms of sponsoring.
It's just a shame knowing the people who watch this stream aren't all actually there to watch some cybersportie entertainment.
Edit: Owner does porn it seems according to above post, so they won't give a damn about anything but the audience being male or of a certain age.
On October 10 2012 20:49 Desertfaux wrote: I doubt the people who go to these sites are the ones sponsors have as a target audience when they choose to sponsor a cybersports team. That's really my only concern for this method, because its all about numbers. If these viewers are 'ok' for the sponsors (as in the age group is good enough for them) then I don't see much of a problem for these teams in terms of sponsoring.
It's just a shame knowing the people who watch this stream aren't all actually there to watch some cybersportie entertainment.
Edit: Owner does porn it seems according to above post, so they won't give a damn about anything but the audience being male or of a certain age.
If I understand correctly, Eclypsia is owned by a company which is part to a conglomerate of ~70 companies who do things like porn, advertising spaces selling, fiscal optimization and other things like that.
When I read the OP, it seemed like a disgraceful thing to do. But when you actually go the website, it's embedded right in front of you. It's not "hidden". Honestly, this isn't a big deal.
and b.) How much more clever Starcraft players are. lol. If you ever plan to lie, cheat or steal, don't plan on getting away with it with RTS nerds on the case.
edit:
and c.) wtf, who in their right mind would okay this?
I see absolutely nothing wrong here. Those streams weren't hidden either, they were easy to spot, the first things you see is the adds, which you would see anyway on every single web page that you go to. On all 3 pages, the stream is visible the second you get on the page. I see this as good promotion of placement of their stream, nothing scam here. You can stop the stream instantly if that is what you wish, and if they pay to get better stream placements, then so be it.
I don't really see how it is cheating? I agree it doesn't happen often (afaik) and it lowers viewer value. But cheating? They just have a different way of getting exposure, which i don't think is very effective at all. To form this opinion, i clicked on the link in the op to lesdebiles.com.
The whole story started quite normally. As a big buzz news reader, I visit my favorite websites and spend most of my time slacking off in front of useless, yet fun videos (well, some of them are still of a use). Whilst browsing one of those websites (www.lesdebiles.com), I noticed that the Eclypsia's stream was embed on it, and hidden on top of that : the stream launches itself automatically and is muted when launched, thus giving them a lot of "zombie" (easy yet not alive) viewers. Even though I despise that team, I did not warn any one right off the bat. When I saw, at noon, the freshly created topic about it on team aAa's boards, It just pushed me toward writing a blog about them, to make sure that everyone understand that, even in the eSports, there is some dirty money
umm.. It's not hidden at all. It's in clear view. That means the ads will still be in view to everyone (without adblock ofc). Whether they chose to look at it or not is another matter, but the same problem is there for people watching on the actual page.
Yeah i don't get why its being called "hidden". I've tested on 3 different browsers, no adblock, and its right fucking there. Hard to miss.
If it was actually hidden, i'd have issue. In this case? Its a bit of aggressive advertising on their partner sites. It happens, welcome to basic internet marketing.
Just to be clear to those who think : "it's clever and it's not hidden it's in plain view !!"
The contract they have with Dailymotion and the Ads is for a Video Ad which means Video AND Sound. The stream is default set to "mute". So only that in itself is fraudy behaviour.
Also Ads are not always displayed randomly, they can be relievant to the viewers population you are aiming at. You will not display an Ad for Retirement Foundraising to a gamers community ... So by doing what they do, they make irrelevent 80% of the Ads they display which again is in contradiction to what a streaming contract with Dailymotion/Twitch/Own3d/etc... is supposed to be.
Apart from Dailymotion I don't really see who would have an issue with the matter, since they don't have any sponsors. And you don't really spoil you audience by inflating numbers on a stream with free content. It could call for a litigation with Dailymotion since they normally pay content creaters based on unique viewers (or so I imagine) but it's not really a matter of importance for stream viewers.
Things like this have been done in e-advertisement a long time. There are people working full time on getting random users to load pages with adds. Exploiting googles pagerank etc. Business is business there are no ethics when it comes to advertisement. I mean watch any TV channel and there will be subliminal or hypnotic tricks used all over. If you cannot see it you're getting owned ^^
"If you're in marketing. Kill yourself. No I'm not kidding. Just kill yourself." - Bill Hicks
On October 10 2012 22:04 Hexesport wrote: Just to be clear to those who think : "it's clever and it's not hidden it's in plain view !!"
The contract they have with Dailymotion and the Ads is for a Video Ad which means Video AND Sound. The stream is default set to "mute". So only that in itself is fraudy behaviour.
Also Ads are not always displayed randomly, they can be relievant to the viewers population you are aiming at. You will not display an Ad for Retirement Foundraising to a gamers community ... So by doing what they do, they make irrelevent 80% of the Ads they display which again is in contradiction to what a streaming contract with Dailymotion/Twitch/Own3d/etc... is supposed to be.
Yeah so, why the hell would it be worth a TL topic? It's a business matter between EC and Dailymotion.
Yeah so, why the hell would it be worth a TL topic? It's a business matter between EC and Dailymotion.
Because we are the eSport community, and as one, if we want to see eSports grow in a good way, we have to share and enlight good and bad behaviours. We are the ones who make a team/player/caster hyped.
On October 10 2012 22:10 sashkata wrote: Sounds like a French team war type of thing to me.
It's not much of a war. It's about the legit teams trying their hard to make eSport bigger in France, to have the media and all have a credible look on it. And then you have shady guys spitting dust on that work.
Meh, not worthy of a post tbh. don't see why would anyone care, it's not like they took the viewers' money or some shit. Except if you love drama. Oh wait..
On October 10 2012 22:10 sashkata wrote: Sounds like a French team war type of thing to me.
It's not much of a war. It's about the legit teams trying their hard to make eSport bigger in France, to have the media and all have a credible look on it. And then you have shady guys spitting dust on that work.
Well aAa has set themselves up as the whistle-blowers of french esports and until they change their legal status, they are unlikely to do anything else. It's not really a war, it's more aAa trying to gain views by doing investigation.
My big question is: What are streaming sites like Twitch going to do to stop this from happening? They can't stop embedding and they can't make everyone who wants to watch log in. Maybe something like Pandora that asks if the person is still there? I feel like this could actually be a problem in the future of streaming if it isn't sorted out.
On October 10 2012 23:07 Inori wrote: sensationalist OP.
- Streams are clearly visible. - One of the websites even has a description right next to stream. - Stream controls are easily accessible.
The biggest issue is that people who go to those sites aren't looking at the stream and thus not the ads. Also, sponsors should have the ability to choose where their ads get placed. They don't want their products associated with certain sites for a reason.
They probably didnt set up the system themselves. I'm pretty sure they went through a thrid party that allows you to buy likes on facebook or followers on twitter. I didn't knew that they were services where you could buy viewers for your stream.
People have been buying likes on facebook, followers on twitter, backlinks on websites for ever. It's blackhat SEO 101. I think Eclypsia was deceived with their stream numbers and wanted to get some traction. It's easier to gain more viewers/followers if you already have a lot of them, it makes you look legit.
Sadly for them they got caught, and if Dailymotion get aware of this they will probably get punished for it. They played and they failed. Next time when they use such services they will try to hire better guys.
I think this is a very interesting thread and now i'm wondering how many streamers are using those kind of services. I also wonder about the pricing.
I'm so confused as to why this is a 'bad thing'. They're paying to advertise their stream, what did they do wrong there? If you go to a site, and the Eclypsia stream pops up, it was the site that coded how the stream appears and not Eclypsia.
This is pretty standard internet advertising. I won't say that I'm a fan of pop-ups but I understand their value and have no problem with a team advertising their stream in this way.
On October 11 2012 00:51 ShamW0W wrote: I'm so confused as to why this is a 'bad thing'. They're paying to advertise their stream, what did they do wrong there? If you go to a site, and the Eclypsia stream pops up, it was the site that coded how the stream appears and not Eclypsia.
This is pretty standard internet advertising. I won't say that I'm a fan of pop-ups but I understand their value and have no problem with a team advertising their stream in this way.
Teams market themselves to sponsors by showing how much interest the gaming community has in them.
One of the ways to prove your popularity is to show stream numbers. "Look! dear sponsor X, there are 10k people on our stream!!!! If YOU would sponsor us, 10k people will see your logo ingame!!! how great is that???"
and now... have 9.9k of those people be randoms that dont notice your stream and just let it run in the background...
I can't believe how gullible some people are. Just because the OP was very negative against placing streams on entertainment sites, everybody is against it. If the OP was something a long the lines: "Guys, look a great idea about how to grow E-sports. We need to enlarge the mass of people who are watching Starcraft so let's go to entertainment sites and promote starcraft streams there. Instead of watching mindless youtube videos, more people will watch starcraft and become fans" everybody would say it sounds great.
Guys, grow up. There is nothing wrong with Eclypsia is doing. They are just advertising Stracraft to people who would otherwise never see it. If the price to make E-sports grow is that silly parameters like stream numbers will become meaningless than so be it. Sponsors will look for other things (like tournament winnings) in order to decide who to sponsor.
Yeah so, why the hell would it be worth a TL topic? It's a business matter between EC and Dailymotion.
Because we are the eSport community, and as one, if we want to see eSports grow in a good way, we have to share and enlight good and bad behaviours. We are the ones who make a team/player/caster hyped.
><, i for one do not wish to support any moralistic witchhunt. I don't know how you can even think of saying something like this. Go and ruin others business plans without having anything to do with it yourself. Dailymotion is perfectly able to fend for itself.
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate:
Hi all,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site.
I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia.
It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh!
On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now.
This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it.
On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned.
Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank.
During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ...
We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal.
We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market.
The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports.
- Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport
Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss.
And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage.
Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community.
We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said:
The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games.
So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players.
Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public:
- Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ...
We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience.
It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so.
Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ...
Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page).
You say it is a false public?
I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain.
How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus?
We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
Advertisers now?
Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible.
An example to better understand:
Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game.
In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice.
I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note:
Openness is not a skull fracture.
Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes.
I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support.
Ruurk
So it's an advertising strategy. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as sponsors are aware that the stream numbers are inflated.
On October 10 2012 10:49 Cascade wrote: Hmm, I guess the real damage this does is that it devalues the worth of stream advertisement. If this becomes (is?) standard, advertisers know that 99.9% of their advertisements will be on a hidden muted stream, which will devalue a broadcasted advertisement a lot. So "legit" streamers trying to get stream money through real viewers will get a lot less money from smaller money per advertisement broadcasted. So hurting E-SPORTs all in all I guess.
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate:
Hi all,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site.
I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia.
It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh!
On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now.
This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it.
On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned.
Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank.
During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ...
We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal.
We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market.
The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports.
- Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport
Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss.
And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage.
Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community.
We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said:
The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games.
So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players.
Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public:
- Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ...
We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience.
It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so.
Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ...
Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page).
You say it is a false public?
I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain.
How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus?
We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
Advertisers now?
Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible.
An example to better understand:
Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game.
In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice.
I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note:
Openness is not a skull fracture.
Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes.
I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support.
Ruurk
So it's an advertising strategy. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as sponsors are aware that the stream numbers are inflated.
Same here. I'm glad they take care about what the community thinks. Good move here, EC !
Yeah so, why the hell would it be worth a TL topic? It's a business matter between EC and Dailymotion.
Because we are the eSport community, and as one, if we want to see eSports grow in a good way, we have to share and enlight good and bad behaviours.
Absolutly true and I think the guys who run this organisation do not seem to share those ideas. They only want to profit from the foundation that was build on those principles.
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate:
Hi all,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site.
I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia.
It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh!
On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now.
This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it.
On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned.
Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank.
During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ...
We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal.
We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market.
The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports.
- Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport
Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss.
And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage.
Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community.
We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said:
The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games.
So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players.
Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public:
- Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ...
We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience.
It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so.
Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ...
Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page).
You say it is a false public?
I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain.
How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus?
We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
Advertisers now?
Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible.
An example to better understand:
Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game.
In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice.
I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note:
Openness is not a skull fracture.
Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes.
I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support.
Ruurk
So it's an advertising strategy. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as sponsors are aware that the stream numbers are inflated.
Same here. I'm glad they take care about what the community thinks. Good move here, EC !
Is this a good move ? Really ?
I don't think so, EC is blaming us of destroying Esport with Adblock. They use intrusive stream, in autoplay without sound, on site where no one is interrested by Esport, and lessmore by Starcraft 2. Everything of that because they aren't able to do interessing things on their stream.
You are like an EC-Franch-Fanboy and I don't really like that.
It's fucking hilarious how people don't see this as something wrong. Although the act is wrong as well, the principle, which is infinitely much more important, is where the problem exists. Hard to find people with a moral fiber these days..
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate:
Hi all,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site.
I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia.
It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh!
On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now.
This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it.
On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned.
Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank.
During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ...
We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal.
We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market.
The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports.
- Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport
Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss.
And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage.
Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community.
We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said:
The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games.
So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players.
Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public:
- Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ...
We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience.
It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so.
Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ...
Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page).
You say it is a false public?
I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain.
How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus?
We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
Advertisers now?
Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible.
An example to better understand:
Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game.
In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice.
I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note:
Openness is not a skull fracture.
Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes.
I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support.
Ruurk
So it's an advertising strategy. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as sponsors are aware that the stream numbers are inflated.
Same here. I'm glad they take care about what the community thinks. Good move here, EC !
Is this a good move ? Really ?
I don't think so, EC is blaming us of destroying Esport with Adblock. They use intrusive stream, in autoplay without sound, on site where no one is interrested by Esport, and lessmore by Starcraft 2. Everything of that because they aren't able to do interessing things on their stream.
You are like an EC-Franch-Fanboy and I don't really like that.
No i'm not lol
I just saying its a good move to communicate about this case with the community ! About what EC does... well they have a business to run, and France is a bit small for them to do so. I understand that its hard for them, and they try new things. Why not.
What bugs me is their business decision. Strategically speaking, all the decisions they made were subpart. I am just wondering how experienced their management are, because they seem to be out of touch with the entire scene.
I can clearly see the video played openly on all those pages. muted and low qual. Also, I am quite sure they could not have "fixed it" on all partner platforms in such a short time + Show Spoiler +
different deploy procedures, development process, QA, staging stuff - they all take quite some time and not all would be able to just deploy a fix to cover things up in less than a week; also, from working with French development companies they usually are quite procedural nazis, where everything needs ~4 signatures and ~3 reviews before any finger in development and operations is lifted
, so I asume they were visible all along.
I do have some experience in web development, and I really thought the OP was a little off (a lot ... I had seen the videos).
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate:
Hi all,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site.
I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia.
It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh!
On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now.
This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it.
On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned.
Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank.
During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ...
We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal.
We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market.
The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports.
- Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport
Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss.
And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage.
Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community.
We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said:
The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games.
So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players.
Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public:
- Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ...
We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience.
It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so.
Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ...
Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page).
You say it is a false public?
I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain.
How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus?
We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
Advertisers now?
Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible.
An example to better understand:
Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game.
In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice.
I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note:
Openness is not a skull fracture.
Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes.
I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support.
Ruurk
So it's an advertising strategy. I don't see anything wrong with it, as long as sponsors are aware that the stream numbers are inflated.
Same here. I'm glad they take care about what the community thinks. Good move here, EC !
Is this a good move ? Really ?
I don't think so, EC is blaming us of destroying Esport with Adblock. They use intrusive stream, in autoplay without sound, on site where no one is interrested by Esport, and lessmore by Starcraft 2. Everything of that because they aren't able to do interessing things on their stream.
You are like an EC-Franch-Fanboy and I don't really like that.
No i'm not lol
I just saying its a good move to communicate about this case with the community ! About what EC does... well they have a business to run, and France is a bit small for them to do so. I understand that its hard for them, and they try new things. Why not.
It's only because someone discovered this. And now they are acting like it's a good thing, with a post full of bulls****. They are late of 10 days, their politic is all but transparent ...
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate:
Hi all,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site.
I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia.
It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh!
On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now.
This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it.
On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned.
Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank.
During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ...
We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal.
We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market.
The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports.
- Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport
Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss.
And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage.
Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community.
We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said:
The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games.
So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players.
Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public:
- Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ...
We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience.
It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so.
Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ...
Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page).
You say it is a false public?
I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain.
How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus?
We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
Advertisers now?
Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible.
An example to better understand:
Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game.
In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice.
I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note:
Openness is not a skull fracture.
Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes.
I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support.
Ruurk
I believe that as long as they have told Dailymotion, and any other sponsors/advertisers that they have, about this plan and how it will affect the numbers on their stream, there is nothing wrong with this. After this explanation, this practice does not seem bad(assuming everyone was notified) and is something that Eclypsia is taking a big risk with.
I wish them luck with this, and hope they are able to improve their image in the community!
On October 11 2012 02:25 Laurens wrote: So Eclypsia is paying websites to advertise their stream, I don't see the problem. If this is their business strategy then so be it.
When it comes to drama this community is unbelievable.
One scandal after another, this team seems to have done nothing but harm eSports since its conception. Why anyone takes it as anything but a scam is beyond me.
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate:
Hi all,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site.
I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia.
It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh!
On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now.
This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it.
On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned.
Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank.
During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ...
We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal.
We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market.
The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports.
- Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport
Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss.
And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage.
Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community.
We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said:
The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games.
So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players.
Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public:
- Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ...
We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience.
It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so.
Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ...
Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page).
You say it is a false public?
I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain.
How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus?
We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
Advertisers now?
Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible.
An example to better understand:
Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game.
In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice.
I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note:
Openness is not a skull fracture.
Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes.
I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support.
Ruurk
I believe that as long as they have told Dailymotion, and any other sponsors/advertisers that they have, about this plan and how it will affect the numbers on their stream, there is nothing wrong with this. After this explanation, this practice does not seem bad(assuming everyone was notified) and is something that Eclypsia is taking a big risk with.
I wish them luck with this, and hope they are able to improve their image in the community!
Making a muted stream run behind a website without the person visiting the site being aware is not wrong?
On October 11 2012 02:25 Laurens wrote: So Eclypsia is paying websites to advertise their stream, I don't see the problem. If this is their business strategy then so be it.
When it comes to drama this community is unbelievable.
it's fraud, plain and simple
What? Where is the deception? It's already been pointed out that the stream is not hidden, only if you use adblock. Who are they deceiving? Their sponsors? Do you honestly think they didn't inform them about this idea? Or that the sponsors wouldn't notice when the number of views exploded exponentianally and asked what's up?
Again, it's just a form of advertising, it's amazing how people are twisting and turning just to hate on Eclypsia.
On October 11 2012 02:25 Laurens wrote: So Eclypsia is paying websites to advertise their stream, I don't see the problem. If this is their business strategy then so be it.
When it comes to drama this community is unbelievable.
it's fraud, plain and simple
What? Where is the deception? It's already been pointed out that the stream is not hidden, only if you use adblock. Who are they deceiving? Their sponsors? Do you honestly think they didn't inform them about this idea? Or that the sponsors wouldn't notice when the number of views exploded exponentianally and asked what's up?
Again, it's just a form of advertising, it's amazing how people are twisting and turning just to hate on Eclypsia.
It'd be the equivalent of walking into a store and see clerks throwing stuff in your cart. You can tell them to stop (obviously) and they would, but I would never go to that store ever again.
On October 11 2012 02:25 Laurens wrote: So Eclypsia is paying websites to advertise their stream, I don't see the problem. If this is their business strategy then so be it.
When it comes to drama this community is unbelievable.
it's fraud, plain and simple
What? Where is the deception? It's already been pointed out that the stream is not hidden, only if you use adblock. Who are they deceiving? Their sponsors? Do you honestly think they didn't inform them about this idea? Or that the sponsors wouldn't notice when the number of views exploded exponentianally and asked what's up?
Again, it's just a form of advertising, it's amazing how people are twisting and turning just to hate on Eclypsia.
It'd be the equivalent of walking into a store and see clerks throwing stuff in your cart. You can tell them to stop (obviously) and they would, but I would never go to that store ever again.
Okay, you made your choice. Let me make mine. Now, why the witchhunt?
On October 11 2012 02:25 Laurens wrote: So Eclypsia is paying websites to advertise their stream, I don't see the problem. If this is their business strategy then so be it.
When it comes to drama this community is unbelievable.
it's fraud, plain and simple
What? Where is the deception? It's already been pointed out that the stream is not hidden, only if you use adblock. Who are they deceiving? Their sponsors? Do you honestly think they didn't inform them about this idea? Or that the sponsors wouldn't notice when the number of views exploded exponentianally and asked what's up?
Again, it's just a form of advertising, it's amazing how people are twisting and turning just to hate on Eclypsia.
I also pointed that out, I think you should just give up tring to reason. I am dissapoint
Reading stuff that's black on white does not make it truth. If ppl do not bother to check the facts for themselves when it's really easy as in the current case, why expect ppl to accept the Earth is older than 6k years. It's this kind of jumping the band wagon and accepting blindly what others are saying that also creates all the drama in esports.
I guess it's also a factor of audience age, because I expect education levels to be acceptable in TL (as in around highschool and with an open mind).
Again ... I am dissapoint
And also still waiting for more evidence for the OP case and point because I am still leaning toward EC's argument on this.
On October 11 2012 01:43 Calm wrote: Google Translate:
Hi all,
Firstly, let me introduce myself, my name is Ruurk, and I am responsible for developing Eclypsia, this post is one response to the claims of team-aAa site.
I write to you today because I think it is time for me to communicate with you, and lift the veil on practices that you consider questionable from Eclypsia.
It all started in April 2012, each of you will remember, we had the idea ("I" had the idea) to the output of a false Eclypsia April Fool, where he issue was that our young players (less than 2 weeks) had not been paid by Eclypsia. Course given recruitment "fresh" and the date (1 April) we were convinced that 90% of the community would say, ah ah, nice joke, April Fool etc, etc.. Unfortunately for us, many of you have believed our deception, and you felt that this kind of joke was not ethical. We apologize, we just wanted to laugh, we are first and foremost gamers like you and we thought you laugh!
On the other hand, I remind you that all our players were aware of the April Fool and the one that helped launch (Welmu) is always present in Eclypsia, he seems happy to be home and he never had any problems until now.
This case April Fool's is over, we had in our midst a communications officer or head manager, call it what you like, Retox, who had eShara, Blast etc etc.. Load is heavy to get the community he told me about a competition of memes, which would have shown that a self derision. This was the biggest FAIL of Eclypsia, and cost has its place mainly interested. He was fired for other reasons, but mainly for it.
On the case of SC2 players who have left, we gave time (6 months for Korea) that players did not want to meet. Being pressed and I understand, they decided to leave. We agree with that, everyone has paid the wages due and we were all pleased with the partnership. Moreover, in the departures Eclypsia even lost a computer, never returned by the person concerned.
Dota 2 for the team, we just sold Mystress 5000 simultaneous viewers and 10 hours daily stream for a salary of € 5,500. Making only 40 viewers, it turned into a drama and said that they saw our picture we "held by the balls" as she said. We do not give the players and Mystress went to another team, where they caused exactly the same problems, but it is the image of Eclypsia who took for his rank.
During this time, Eclypsia decided to refocus. The business plan was to pay a base salary of streamers, streamer of them for several hours a day, as well as create a thematic TV video games. This plan was a resounding failure, wanting to touch players in addition to their salary money generated on their stream. Unfortunately, Eclypsia did at that time not yet sponsors, we could not compete with the wages offered by our competitors ...
We started with Sarens (eSports manager) and others to review the business plan. Three clear lines had emerged: The Teams, Stream and news portal.
We therefore re-assigned budgets, favoring the appearance and WebTV news portal, while maintaining the appearance team, but no longer than splurge on the transfer market.
The budget allocated mainly to WebTV, things have changed. We released formats such as Dual Fighting (SC2 a show match with € 100 cash prize), the LoL Strategy Cup (showmatch LoL KOTH), flash eSports.
- Dual Fighting - LoL Strategy Cup - Flash eSport
Finally, our operations became profitable. Indeed, for € 100 invested in cash prize, we clear about € 150-160 each issue, not enough profitable wages, but we were quite happy, it was the first operations were not at a loss.
And then ... The team Pomf & Thud, the Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that has created a slew of departures from us, our newsers stars went our streamers, it was carnage.
Millenium, installed on the French market did not even feel the difference, being entrenched at the top of Google for years on queries video game. Our friends aAa meanwhile, have a loyal community.
We then had little choice. Scrape on the cake of others, or create our own. So we went around the web, and we said:
The eSports is a passion for racing video game, but it is also made to follow the games.
So we had the idea, rather than trying to prick the public of our competitors, to fetch external growth, a new audience. A public not yet interested in esport, but may already be video game players.
Like trailers in cinemas or television advertisements, so we thought we wanted to target public:
- Music? Cinema? News sites? too heterogeneous. - Sites for video games? Competition forces, it seemed impossible ...
We thought our colleagues in the web site owners of mini games or humor site. The public is almost similar, it may stick. The first tests being performed the operation was a success, our TV presenters recover many new likes on facebook and the site carries a whopping 300% extra entries / day compared to an average day. So we found our future audience.
It cost us tens of thousands of dollars per month in advertising budget and does not Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world but just the team that invests the fastest growing external visibility. Is that a crime? I do not think so.
Some on reddit or others did not see the stream that was "hidden". Remember gentlemen eSports enthusiasts that the only reason you have not seen our stream on these pages is that you use Adblock, and you kill the market more than we ...
Without Adblock, the stream is indeed autoplay and automute (ads about they sound), this option is available on Dailymotion, or even Twitch (see the home page).
You say it is a false public?
I do not think this is a false public, I think that this is a new audience, an audience become, how many actually will become our audience? I do not know, 10%, 20%? But it will have it won, and since all this costs us more than it tells us, I do not think that our advertisers will complain.
How did Eclypsia this hocus-pocus?
We bought advertising space as there is 100% of eSports websites and web. Rather than put a banner, we've just put a movie, an idea, a simple idea. We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
Advertisers now?
Some say that this will reduce the overall CPM and dry and spread income streams. Know first bought qu'Eclypsia spaces already occupied by advertisers and price. These locations have already been purchased by advertisers will not be available directly on the sites in question, but Eclypsia and provider. The volume of sales thus becomes Eclypsia therefore certainly, but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, I think this volume group can not make eSports more than credible.
An example to better understand:
Like Qatar and PSG, many star players together in the same jersey has boosted attendance at the stadium PSG certainly, jerseys sales, certainly, but also and especially the attendance of all stages "local" which PSG welcome for a game.
In our scale esportive, EG meets Stephano and a galaxy of stars and convinces advertisers as Monster Energy or another. Choosing Eclypsia has simply focused on the "media" rather than the "team". A mere difference of strategic choice.
I think the key message is passed and must finish on a positive note:
Openness is not a skull fracture.
Open our market to more potential audience will only grow our community, we are first and foremost enthusiasts, I myself was a player at the highest levels of many games. I am still active and ShootMania SC2. You think we want to destroy the market? We try instead to open more than ever, on a scale which unfortunately scares you. Believe me, these viewers will be at your door soon, as they discover Eclypsia today, but tomorrow they love our environment, our games, our passion, they seek to see more. Rub your hands rather than wipe your eyes.
I remain available to the entire community, and now wants to live better hours at your side. Eclypsia has already found a sponsor who will be announced soon, we also thank in advance for their support.
Ruurk
I believe that as long as they have told Dailymotion, and any other sponsors/advertisers that they have, about this plan and how it will affect the numbers on their stream, there is nothing wrong with this. After this explanation, this practice does not seem bad(assuming everyone was notified) and is something that Eclypsia is taking a big risk with.
I wish them luck with this, and hope they are able to improve their image in the community!
Making a muted stream run behind a website without the person visiting the site being aware is not wrong?
As long as everyone involved has been alerted and they have worked out a deal to account for the "ghost" viewers that are inevitable and everyone involved agreed to the conditions assigned to the new situation... No, I don't think it is wrong.
(Although if they are still getting the same rates per viewer as they would without the "ghost" viewers, or if they do not meet any other conditions that were put forward with this change in viewers[This is assuming that there was a promise/contract about the added viewers], then it is wrong)
On October 11 2012 00:51 ShamW0W wrote: I'm so confused as to why this is a 'bad thing'. They're paying to advertise their stream, what did they do wrong there? If you go to a site, and the Eclypsia stream pops up, it was the site that coded how the stream appears and not Eclypsia.
This is pretty standard internet advertising. I won't say that I'm a fan of pop-ups but I understand their value and have no problem with a team advertising their stream in this way.
Teams market themselves to sponsors by showing how much interest the gaming community has in them.
One of the ways to prove your popularity is to show stream numbers. "Look! dear sponsor X, there are 10k people on our stream!!!! If YOU would sponsor us, 10k people will see your logo ingame!!! how great is that???"
and now... have 9.9k of those people be randoms that dont notice your stream and just let it run in the background...
you tell me what is wrong with that
If the sponsor just takes that figure for face value then that's the fault of the sponsor. By advertising their stream how are they doing anything that can be perceived as 'wrong'? I can understand that some people claim that it's "unfair" but even that's a stretch.
In general business are successful because they either have a superior product or they're great at getting the message out about their product and generating buzz. (see: Shamwow ) A good way to generate buzz is to spend money on advertising which is effective even if you have an inferior product. (not claiming the EC stream is inferior, just stating an observation of business in general)
Based on the response from Eclypsia, it seems pretty legit...threads like these are pretty unfair because people read the title, throw Eclypsia under the bus, and move on with their day having never bothered to read any possible rebuttle. It's like a smear campaign in politics, the truth doesn't really matter, it's the negative headline you want to put out there.
If you had/have an issue with the way Eclypsia is doing things, there's better ways than making a public message on TL calling them cheaters...You could raise a discussion and probably even contact Eclypsia directly.
Eclypsia meme competition was stupid though, glad someone got fired over that...the april fools thing was blown wayyy out of proporation by some touchy people around here though. I personally found that kinda funny.
EC is the embodiement of what you could describe as "shady". Weird PR statement and moves, players and sponsors not sticking with it for long, cancel tournament date without prior notice(because of an unrelevant french political debate). Now that the SC2 community is reluctant to associate with them or even look at their stream or contents, they are trying to get a higher base of viewers for their contents even if the target audience has no interest in what they offer. Most of this audience will not invest time in the gaming community and even less in the SC2 community in the long run. But EC doesn't care they just want to artificially boost their "look how much people are interested in us numbers" so that they can maybe score some audience from people not knowing EC or how they do what they do and their history.
Numbers of views, subscribers, and interest from the public is EVERYTHING internet wise, what would prevent to use the numbers they bought to advertise themselves to sponsors or get help to organize events that they would represent.
The last thing I want to see is a company that doesn't care about players, tournament or engagements they talk about and is just on the Esport scene to try to make profit no matter what means they can use.
I hope none of the people posting against EC a lot in this thread use Adblock. Because that's no more morally acceptable than what you claim EC has done.
On October 11 2012 03:11 heyoka wrote: Anyone able to do a proper translation of the EC statement? I'd be interested in seeing what they said in a way that was closer to the source.
I wasn't able to find it on the aAa website (boolean errors) or on the Eclypsia website period. I can give it a shot if I can find it. Although if that Google translate is any indication its mostly fluff. I just want to see if they mentioned daily motion anywhere in the release since they're the only ones that matter when it comes to the implications for the advertiser.
I use adblock and it is still visible to me, so the adblock theory is out the window. I think that maybe EC may have changed things around and suddenly made it visible with autoplay/mute due to this thread. Last night when I checked, it was visible with autoplay but no mute. Now it is autoplay with mute.
On October 11 2012 03:40 howLiN wrote: This is actually a pretty cool marketing strategy. People are really just flipping their shit because it's Eclypsia.
It isnt marketing if nobody sees what youre marketing. It is fraud.
On October 11 2012 03:40 howLiN wrote: This is actually a pretty cool marketing strategy. People are really just flipping their shit because it's Eclypsia.
Indeed.
Since the departure of fan-favorites like Desrow and Scarlett people hate Eclypsia for anything they do. You have to know that Eclypsia is a team run by people who have no experience and no knowledge of e-sports, hence a lot of stupid moves, but there's nothing shady about them.
On October 11 2012 03:40 howLiN wrote: This is actually a pretty cool marketing strategy. People are really just flipping their shit because it's Eclypsia.
It isnt marketing if nobody sees what youre marketing. It is fraud.
You just said a couple of posts above that the stream is "visible" so why now you say that nobody sees the stream?
On October 11 2012 03:40 howLiN wrote: This is actually a pretty cool marketing strategy. People are really just flipping their shit because it's Eclypsia.
true, if this was EG people would be all "oh great marketing once again EG, more teams need to do this etc"
On October 11 2012 03:40 howLiN wrote: This is actually a pretty cool marketing strategy. People are really just flipping their shit because it's Eclypsia.
It isnt marketing if nobody sees what youre marketing. It is fraud.
you mean like every advertisement on every website? :D
Ok so if I go on one of this websites to see for exemple funny video, there is a "commercial" of eclypsia running their stream. (it would be not visible for adbloker users)
Whereas I am not on their website and not interested in their stream, I count for one viewer.
Neither dailymotions, nor annoncers /sponsors (who paid Eclypsia, according to the number of their viewers) know that.
On October 11 2012 04:11 TapetalKarma wrote: people saying this isnt bad or its good marketing are RETARDED this is fraud its ILLEGAL ITS NOT SMART ITS NOT OKAY and they will pay for it for sure.
On October 11 2012 04:12 Orzabal wrote: Ok so if I go on one of this websites to see for exemple funny video, there is a "commercial" of eclypsia running their stream. (it would be not visible for adbloker users)
Whereas I am not on their website and not interested in their stream, I count for one viewer.
Neither dailymotions, nor annoncers /sponsors (who paid Eclypsia, according to the number of their viewers) know that.
It pretty seems to be cheating to me.
You need to learn to read
We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers.
I post saying how I see nothing wrong with what they are doing and get called a troll and receive a warning. Hate how the community just hates on a team and is so quick to condemn them. Wish reddit and TL would not be so fast to grab the pitchforks.
On October 11 2012 04:11 TapetalKarma wrote: people saying this isnt bad or its good marketing are RETARDED this is fraud its ILLEGAL ITS NOT SMART ITS NOT OKAY and they will pay for it for sure.
I don't know much about advertisement and all the rules that are involved with it. So can you please explain to me why this is fraud and why this is so much different from any other ad on websites (expect that this one is a stream instead of a picture).
In my eyes this is just a way (maybe not the best) to expose your team to a bigger audience, and so also your team, sponsors and e-Sports as a whole. I just don't see what is wrong with it.
And,
We have done with the agreement of our distribution platform, and advertisers
I read the OP and the response, and it seems really dishonest, in an industry that money/sponsors revolve around viewer numbers, to artificially inflate viewer numbers... drastically so in this case.
On October 11 2012 03:40 howLiN wrote: This is actually a pretty cool marketing strategy. People are really just flipping their shit because it's Eclypsia.
true, if this was EG people would be all "oh great marketing once again EG, more teams need to do this etc"
no one would say that.
you realize even when EG makes a good marketing move people bitch
if EG did this people would be shitting so hard over it
generating fake stream views is just bad, and if its not fraud its fraudulent
On October 11 2012 04:31 1st_Panzer_Div. wrote: I read the OP and the response, and it seems really dishonest, in an industry that money/sponsors revolve around viewer numbers, to artificially inflate viewer numbers... drastically so in this case.
Well op need to be updated with Eclypsia posts. Too many people thinks that its fraud, whereas its only marketing.
You know whats even better? If this was MVP or any other korean team people wouldn't mind. I don't agree with what they are doing but lets be honest, nobody would care if a korean team did this to boost their viewings.
This isn't about fake stream views, it's about advertising the stream to a potential audience. If they would have put the stream on, for example, an animal rights website, where nobody would be interested in esports, than you could have a point. But the stream was embedded into entertainment websites, that have the same target audience as starcraft streams. And if you want esports to grow, that's the audience that you have to attract. If the only audience of SC2 esport will be SC2 players then esports will wither and die, as people leave SC2 or are put off by boorish snobs.
We bought advertising space just like every other eSports website or general website does. The only difference is that we don't put a banner, we just put in a livestream, a simple idea. We did it with the agreement of the advertisers and the distributor’s platform.
If advertisers are ok and EC pays for it, I really don´t see a problem. But I dislike streams autoloading when I enter a site.
On October 11 2012 03:39 TheRabidDeer wrote: I use adblock and it is still visible to me, so the adblock theory is out the window. I think that maybe EC may have changed things around and suddenly made it visible with autoplay/mute due to this thread. Last night when I checked, it was visible with autoplay but no mute. Now it is autoplay with mute.
Do you feel it would be okay for all viewers to use Adblock and for no streamers to make any money?
lets be honest, nobody would care if a korean team did this to boost their viewings.
I would care. I would care even more than I do now, because Korean teams are solid and respected, as opposed to Eclypsia and the likes, more like a joke than a team.
I just can't fathom this community jumping to conclusions and condemning a person or organization before hearing the other side of the story. I mean it's never happened before and if it had, we are intelligent enough to learn that lesson and change our behavior. That's what separates us as RTS players from people who play easy games - we're just so smart!
We bought advertising space just like every other eSports website or general website does. The only difference is that we don't put a banner, we just put in a livestream, a simple idea. We did it with the agreement of the advertisers and the distributor’s platform.
If advertisers are ok and EC pays for it, I really don´t see a problem. But I dislike streams autoloading when I enter a site.
My only concern is that could be a bit misleading if they mean the distributors (websites) that they embedded the stream on and not the company who pays for ad impressions from the stream. Of course if the muted stream doesn't show ads the point is moot but this isn't something only Eclypsia is doing. I've gotten a few ads from those sites that redirect after x seconds with many streams from the FGC. Sometimes 3 on one page and those did run ads through twitch if left open.
It would only become a problem if everyone starts doing it which would seriously annoy the sponsors, but ATM it is just dishonest, but I don't think there is any harm caused by it apart from some negative publicity towards Eclypsia.
On October 11 2012 03:40 howLiN wrote: This is actually a pretty cool marketing strategy. People are really just flipping their shit because it's Eclypsia.
It isnt marketing if nobody sees what youre marketing. It is fraud.
You just said a couple of posts above that the stream is "visible" so why now you say that nobody sees the stream?
It is visible now, however it may not have been at the time of the original posting, which is when everybody had issues with it. People would have 0 issues if it didnt autoplay, the autoplay thing is a bit sketchy for me personally.
On October 11 2012 03:39 TheRabidDeer wrote: I use adblock and it is still visible to me, so the adblock theory is out the window. I think that maybe EC may have changed things around and suddenly made it visible with autoplay/mute due to this thread. Last night when I checked, it was visible with autoplay but no mute. Now it is autoplay with mute.
Do you feel it would be okay for all viewers to use Adblock and for no streamers to make any money?
Yes. I dont know why you are asking me this though.
On October 11 2012 05:08 fishinguy wrote: It would only become a problem if everyone starts doing it which would seriously annoy the sponsors, but ATM it is just dishonest, but I don't think there is any harm caused by it apart from some negative publicity towards Eclypsia.
My nickname is Ruurk, i'm Eclypsia's developing manager. This post is a response to team-aAa allegations.
I'm writing this today because i think it's time for me to communicate with you and put some lights on our practices that you judged doubtful.
Everything started in April 2012, everyone of you remember that we thought("I" thought) of making Eclyspia's coming out a false April foul, our newly recruited players (less than two weeks) would say they didn't get paid by Eclypsia. Of course, given the fact that they were very new recruits and the date of the claim (April the 1st), we were convinced that the community would have laughed and say "lol, nice joke, that's an April Foul etc... Sadly for us, a lot were fouled and believed it and called the joke unethical. We truly are sorry, we simply wanted to make you laugh, we are gamers before everything else like you (T/N: the community).
Furthermore, i would like to remind you that all our players were informed and Welmu (the one who made the false claim) still is with Eclypsia, i think he is happy to be with us and he didn't have any issue with us up to now.
This April foul case being closed...we hired a Head Manager or Communication Manager, as you want to call him, called Retox who was from E-Sahara before, Blast etc... The work load was heavy to try to earn the community back so he talked to me about a meme contest that would have shown we have self derision. This was our biggest fail and Retox was fired. It was not only because of this but it was the main cause.
About the SC2 players who parted ways with us, we had a deadline (6 months to Korea) but they didn't want to wait. They were in a hurry, i can understand that (T/N: might be more "impatient" than "in a hurry but it's not very clear), and decided to resign. We agreed on that, everyone was paid and we all were happy about the patnership. Beside, Eclypsia lost a computer in this case that was never returned by the person concerned.
For the Dota 2 team, Mystress sold us 5k live viewers and 10 hours of stream daily for a € 5.5k salary. Only having 40 viewers, the whole thing turned to be a drama et she thought that given our image "they (T/N: the players?) had us by the balls" has she said. We didn't yield. The players and Mystress went to an other team where they rised the same issues but it was Eclypsia public image that took the hit.
While that was happening, Eclypsia decide to redirect itself. The basic business was to pay streamers a salary, make them stream several hours a day and create a video game oriented TV. This was a resounding failure given that the players wanted to get the money their stream was generating. Sadly at this point Eclypsia didn't have any sponsor so we couldn't compete with the salary our competitors offered.
Therefore, with SarenS (eSport manager) and others, we revised our business plan. Three major axis emerged: The Teams, the Stream and the News Portal.
We rearranged our budgets, favoring the News Portal and the webTV while maintaining the Teams without overspending on the transfert market.
The budget was mainly allocated to the WebTV and that went great. We created good formats like the Dual Fighting (an SC2 showmatch with 100€ in cash prize), the LOL Strategy Cup (a showmatch KOTH) and the Flash eSport.
Our operations (T/N: for lack of a better work in my mouth, sorry) became profitables. In fact, for 100€ invested we had 150 to 160€ in return, not really enough to profit because of the salaries but we were rather happy with it, it was the first time we did have a profitable return on our investments.
And then...
Pomf & Thud, from Iron Squid, arrived with a budget and a project that resulted on a lot of people resigning from us, the news writers resigned, our streamers too, it was an hecatomb.
Millenium, entrenched on the french market for so long, didn't feel a thing compared to us, already 1st on every games queries on Google for several years meanwhile aAa has a loyal community.
We didn't have much choice. We either had to scounge on other's cake or bake one for ourself so we looked all over the internet and said:
ESport is a passion for gaming competition, it's also following the news and all about videogames.
So we had this idea: instead of trying to steal our competitors audience we should try to find an external public, a new audience. A public not yet interested by eSport altogether but already playing videogames.
Like the trailers and ads on TV or before a movie at the theater, we thought about who we would like to aim for:
-Music? Cinema? News? too heterogeneous. - Video game sites? Too many competitors, seems impossible...
We then thought about our web colleagues, browser games and humoristic website's owners. The publics having a lot in common, it looked like it would works. The first tests were conducted and it was a success, our webtv animators gathered a lot more "likes" on facebook and the website itself had a 300% increase in registration per day compared to the average day. We had found our future audience.
It's costing us tens of thousands euros every month in advertising and doesn't make Eclypsia the most profitable team in the world, simply the one that is investing the most for its visibility. Is that a crime? I don't think so.
Some, on reddit or whatever, said the stream was "hidden". (T/N: I can't properly translate the following because i don't know how to translate that kind of expression from french to english, bear with me and try to understand^^) Know that if you don't see the streams, eSport passionates (T/N: sarcasm of course), it's because you are using Adblock and that is killing eSport much more than what we are doing...
Without Adblock, the stream is autoplayed and automuted (meanwhile announcements have sound), this option is available on Dailymotion and Twitch (check Home page). You called it a false public?
I don't think so, i think it's a new public, a rising public, how many will eventually become our audience? I don't know that, 10%, 20%? Yet it would already be great. Because that is costing us much more than what we earn from that, i don't think our sponsors will complain about that. Bandwidth and the slowing of a third party website?
I hear about how much bandwidth those embeded streams take, everyone of them are in iframes. They don't have the priority while the page is loading. On the other hand, there is a "stop" button that effectively stop the loading of the embeded stream, any flash ads and banners take as much bandwidth and can't be stopped. How Eclypsia passed this sleight of hand?
We bought advertising spots like there is on every websites. Instead of having a banner on this spot, it's an embeded stream, an idea, a simple idea. We did it with the agreement of our diffusion platform and our sponsors. The sponsors now?
I hear that this kind of thing will lower the global CPM (T/N: not sure what it means, sorry if it's a french acronym :'( ) and lower the stream's revenue. First you have to know that Eclypsia bought those advertising spots already occupied by advertisers, at a high price. Those same spots occupied by advertisers won't be available anymore on the concerned websites, only through Eclypsia and its provider. The sales volume of Eclypsia certainly becomes substancial but extremely deficient.
On the other hand, i think that this volume pool can only makes eSport more credible.
An example for a better understanding:
Like for the PSG (T/N: The biggest Paris soccer team), regrouping so many star players under the same jersey certainly boosted the PSG's stadium attendance, certainly boosted the sales of their jerseys too but also the attendance of all the local stadiums receiving the PSG for a single game.
More in our perspective, EG follows the same principle with Stephano and all the star players they added in their roster, they managed to convinced sponsors like Monster Energy and others because of that. Instead of favoring the team part, Eclypsia choosed to invest its money on media. A different strategic choice, that's all.
I think most of the point is made and we have to end it on a positive note.
Mind openness is not a skull fracture.
Opening the market to a bigger potential public can only make eSport grow, we are passionates before everything else, i myself was a high level gamer on several games, i'm still active on SC2 and Shootmania. Do you think we want to kill the market? At the contrary, we are trying more than ever to open it to a scale that sadly seems to scare you. Believe me, those viewers will soon be at your doors because today they find out about Eclypsia but tomorrow, if they like what you're doing, our games, our passion, they will seek more. Rub your hands instead of crying.
I'm available for the community and wish better time at your side.
Eclypsia already found a sponsor that will be announced soon. By the way, we are thanking our sponsor by advance for the support.
Okay, here is my translation. It's a lot better than google, at least i hope :p In case you find mistakes or have better wording for some part, don't hesitate to PM me!
It depends on what they're getting paid per view, what they're paying per view, whether it is set to auto-hide or not, whether they use stream view #s for approaching sponsors, and if they give full disclosure, and obviously whether their stream host is aware of this.
They didn't cheat. They have just used the incredible success of the website http://www.fluvore.com to increase their viewers. Fluvore is based on the greatest idea of 2012. In using them you can convert a video from youtube or others video sites in an .avi or .mp3 format... directly without downloading anything. It's normal a ton of people visited it last 2 months...
Seems like a valid advertising strategy. It's more shocking that ads like these are allowed. Makes me feel much better that I use adblock on 99% of websites, I can't believe you are allowed to embed livestreams in adspace, unreal.
This is just a new advertisment strategy I dont see the need for all the anger and outrage... I'd rather see a sc2 game in the corner than viagra or promises of free iphones...
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
Maybe you should link what content you've done because else it's really just a statement from a TL poster.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
Maybe you should link what content you've done because else it's really just a statement from a TL poster.
Hey, click on his profile and check his posts. BEFORE you start ACCUSING someone of being phony LOOK into it FIRST. I know you're high off this community witch-hunt stuff or w/e but trying to call someone out that's actually legit in the way you just did is despicable.
Please apologize and restore some faith in our community, every little bit counts.
Meh, with their statement it turn from "lol" into a bit of a greyzone imo.
Two main points that is lacking in the OP: 1) Stream is very visible. 2) Advertisers seem to be at least partially informed about what is going on?
So as the stream is actually visible, it does bring in new audience to starcraft, which is of course a good thing. Well done.
However, an advertisement shown on an embedded stream that at least 99% of the page viewers don't care the slightest about is worth a lot less than an advertisement that pops up on TLOs stream where most of the viewers are actively watching the stream, many in full screen. Saying that "10%, 20%, ..." of the people getting this stream as advertisement "become our audience" is of course a ridiculous exaggeration. How many percent of the TL ads do you click on and start to follow regularly? Thought so. If this become general practice, the ads will still get devalued and TLO will get less stream revenue for the same number of viewers, even if this method it's spreading starcraft to some extent.
The one thing that would fix this, is if the stream advertisers can separate between real viewers, that actually clicked on a link to watch the stream, and "advertised" viewers, that only get the stream as advertisement probably don't care the slightest about it. And there would be very different prices for these two options. Then TLO can get his full value for shooting ads in full screen to his fans, and it is still possible to spread sc streams on non-sc sites without harming anyone. It wasn't entirely clear to me from the post if advertisers were presented with this choice, but it seemed to me like they weren't. + Show Spoiler [extract from eclypsia statement] +
We bought advertising space just like every other eSports website or general website does. The only difference is that we don't put a banner, we just put in a livestream, a simple idea. We did it with the agreement of the advertisers and the distributor’s platform.
We would also like to remind you that besides the CPT there's also a fill rate which you're paid, not per 1000 views but for 1000 broadcasted advertisements for which advertisers can choose themselves via which platform this is distributed on. This way they can dissociate from Eclypsia without having an impact on aAa, Millenium or any other structure. They can just ask Dailymotion for the figures we've been talking about, so they will know soon enough if this delivery system benefits them or not, and all of this will be resolved. Conversely, some sponsors weren't interested in this small volume of "eSports folk" and will then come back to us with a lot of noise. I've heard here and there that the sponsors would suffer from this. Let me remind you that it is not the advertisement that is muted, it is only the stream. So if anyone is hurt by the auto-mute it's our streamers and our organization. It's a risk but we believe that a part of the viewers will eventually come to us, demute the stream and will discover what we have to offer.
What about the advertisers?
Some say this will reduce the overall CPT and will spread and dry out the income from streams. Know that Eclypsia bought these spaces that were already occupied by other advertisers for a hefty price. These spots will no longer be available for those advertisers but they will only be available for Eclypsia and their providers. Therefore the volume of sales for Eclypsia will slowly but surely become more deficient.
Please correct me if I got it wrong. Are advertisers presented, before paying anything, with the choice of placing advertisements for a real viewer (for a higher price), or for an "advertised" viewer (for a lower price)?
It seemed like they say that the advertisers were informed (were they really now? ) that their ads now would go out on embedded stream on other sites (to probably uninterested viewers), and that the advertisers are free to dissociate from eclypsia if they want to. I just feel that there is the risk that they will dissociate from starcraft entirely at that point. But I am not entirely sure exactly what information and choices the advertisers are presented with. Wouldn't be surprised if it's not enough though.
TL:DR: I support this method of spreading starcraft. Really, well done! However, it is very important that the advertisers are given VERY clear information and choices about this procedure, as an ad broadcasted through this new channel is worth a lot less than an ad broadcasted on to a "real" viewer.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time.
This deservers more attention. You can discuss all you want about marketing strategies, but denying someone his hard earned pay should always be shunned.
Love your movies Coyote, and I may only hope you get paid for the work you've done.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time.
Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free.
Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean)
even more reason why advertisements on streams are completely stupid and utterly broken. They get paid for typing in a command... it's fucking ridiculous, there needs to be big changes
On October 11 2012 06:03 JoeSchmoe wrote: It's neither a fraud or illegal.
Interesting point of view. The party that really might have an opinion on that is the streaming company (for example a company like Twitch.tv) which serves up the ads and pays streamers for the views. Do their terms of service prevent such a thing? Are they selling ads to their advertisers on the premise that viewers will have made a conscious effort to view the stream? It could well be fraudulent, in the same way that it's fraudulent for companies to automate click-throughs on Google ads to get paid for those.
On October 11 2012 09:45 emc wrote: even more reason why advertisements on streams are completely stupid and utterly broken. They get paid for typing in a command... it's fucking ridiculous, there needs to be big changes
Actually, the streamers get paid for providing all the content that surrounds the ads. Are you not in favor of people with interesting content getting paid in a way that costs you, the viewer, nothing?
Edit: To be clear I think that Eclypsia's behavior on this is completely out of line, but I certainly think that ads on streams are a great thing for the community because it enables people with good content and nothing else to make a living from it.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time.
Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free.
Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean)
If any respected team hired a freelance artist and didn't pay them, there would be a catastrophic shitstorm, so I have no idea what you're talking about. If an organization isn't doing what they promised (which, by the way, EC kind of has a history of), they deserve to be called out publicly. Telling a fraud victim to keep it quiet and take it to court is bullshit.
even more reason why advertisements on streams are completely stupid and utterly broken. They get paid for typing in a command... it's fucking ridiculous, there needs to be big changes
so, by your logic, when I work an eight-hour shift and punch out at the end of the day, I'm getting paid for the act of punching the clock itself, not the actual work I did
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time.
Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free.
Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean)
What the fuck happened to the world that someone's word apparently doesn't mean a fucking thing anymore. You'd think a bunch of nerds who are generally into medieval shit would understand that going back on your word and devaluing your honor meant possible death, yet you're just gonna sit there and say 'no contract no moneyzzzz' is utter bullshit. If you're gonna give someone your word and you go back on it, I hope someone shits in your mouth.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time.
Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free.
Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean)
You can say that it's the fault of the person for doing the work without a contract, but it still gives an insight into the character of the people involved if they are happy to take your work but feel no obligation to pay you for it.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time.
Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free.
Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean)
You can say that it's the fault of the person for doing the work without a contract, but it still gives an insight into the character of the people involved if they are happy to take your work but feel no obligation to pay you for it.
Yup, go ahead and judge character before hearing the other side of the story. It's hard to learn lessons from past situations after all.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
Maybe you should link what content you've done because else it's really just a statement from a TL poster.
Who doesn't know Coyote =) ? Wings of Dream (last fly) Super 15, Super 15 Extended (with XTRM) Dream Note (girls can play) Best sc2 videomaker man.
Again shame on Eclypsia for killing esport and make all webtv viewers number pointless for sponsor search. You better stop this right now.
who cares, they are trying to make it in a tight market with no real financial backing. bravo to them for thinking outside the box to do what they love. I mean honestly, who creates an esports team simply to "cash in"? if this "trick" hurts twitch's ad sales then they will put an end to it, otherwise who cares.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
Maybe you should link what content you've done because else it's really just a statement from a TL poster.
Again shame on Eclypsia for killing esport and make all webtv viewers number pointless for sponsor search. You better stop this right now.
I didn't know Coyote, now I do. That was fantastic work. Especially the one based on Cowboy Bebop, it's easy to just mimic something good, but he had added so much work and detail, and yet it work together with the original. Wow.
On October 11 2012 06:48 coyote37 wrote: hi guys. Im' coyote motion designer and movie maker in E-SPORT. I'm usually known for my SUPER 15 and Wings of dreams videos.
Just to let you know i was working for ECLYPSIA as freelancer for almost 3 month. Doing stream intro, cup presentation, custom maps etc...
Until now, i'm still waiting paiement from EC....
I'm not a fool i know i'll never get paid for my work ofc. But saying just to to let you know what kind of ppl are managing EC...
Hope this shit will note damage the E-SPORT credibility. Peace! coyote.
edit: here is the last time i heard and speak about EC. just don't waste more time.
Not to cast the doubt on your affirmation but every other team around here has one day or another use freelancer by making them believe they would be paid after some time. If you signed a contract and weren't paid, I suggest you take the case to the prud'hommes otherwise you just learned that as a freelancer you have to look out for yourself and that includes not doing anything for free.
Trying to separate the issues isn't easy for the common forum dweller but your post didn't solve anything except shooting on the ambulance (if you know what I mean)
You can say that it's the fault of the person for doing the work without a contract, but it still gives an insight into the character of the people involved if they are happy to take your work but feel no obligation to pay you for it.
Yup, go ahead and judge character before hearing the other side of the story. It's hard to learn lessons from past situations after all.
The guy worked for them (as did I) and was never payed for it. What other side of the story is there going to be?
On October 11 2012 06:39 crms wrote: Seems like a valid advertising strategy. It's more shocking that ads like these are allowed. Makes me feel much better that I use adblock on 99% of websites, I can't believe you are allowed to embed livestreams in adspace, unreal.
Exactly. While what they're doing is technically okay, it's baffling that third-party advertisers would even allow the loading of embed streams. That kind of bandwidth usage when unasked for could be extremely damaging, especially to mobiles with a data plan.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/31585753ec.jpg)
