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On August 25 2012 20:36 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:25 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:23 maybenexttime wrote:On August 25 2012 20:20 HolydaKing wrote:On August 25 2012 20:06 raga4ka wrote:On August 25 2012 19:23 Disengaged wrote:On August 25 2012 18:32 BrosephBrostar wrote:
I'll say it again, there's absolutely no way a fan of SC2 should support the ESF here. What they're doing is absolutely retarded. If their goal really is to "carry Korean E-sports a step forward" isn't getting on TV pretty much the biggest step they can take right now? Am I really supposed to believe that the players are willing to pass up their chance at playing in a Starleage, something they've probably been dreaming of since they became progamers, for the "dignity" of some organization? Don't make me laugh. It's obvious that GOM has ESF on a leash and they're yanking the chain because they're afraid of becoming irrelevant. Anyone that supports this kind of bogus politics has no right to call himself a fan of "esports." And you think Kespa is in the right? Hell no. Kespa is the WORSE possible thing that can happen to SC2, should they force their way in and having shit done their way, whenever they want. ESF is in the right and there is no point in trying to dispute that. You supoort Kespa? Your no fan of Esports then. Just gonna repost my statement here : All i care about is the quality of the games as a viewer. I don't give two shits whenever it is at OSL, GSL , PL or a foreign tournament or what the players want . I don't want players participaing in 31231221312131 different tournaments all the time playing mediocre games all the time . I liked the quality of games Kespa produced in BW , and it took their players 3 months to get to the level of top GSL players in 2 years . ... I hope you realized that the Kespa players that now are MAYBE on an even level as some of the GSL players only made it that fast because they had tons of replay and VOD material available and could catch up fast. The GSL players on the other hand had to think about the game and evolved the game to the point where it is now. Beside that i do agree that players shouldn't play too many tournaments, but it SHOULD all be up to them. Players like Mvp probably could have played a lot more foreign tournaments for example, but he didn't. If the players think their schedule is too tight they don't have to play GSL, but as you could read in their WCS interviews they all were eager to play in the GSL. Why should it all be up to the players? They are contracted professionals, unlike the vast majority of ESF players. Teams should have the final say in what tournaments their players will and will not participate. Except KeSPA is not even teams, and they certainly do not act like one. ESF teams like ST and LG-IM have sponser obligations as well, but MvP certainly did not act like he has no idea what is going on when he was sent to IEM. Kespa are the teams . They own the teams as well as every coach and player in it , and they do things which is the best for their interest and they have their own plans and vision of developing e - sports in the future , that may differ from other organizations .
I refuse to call owners of teams as teams.
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On August 25 2012 20:22 ne4aJIb wrote:By the way who is responsible for OSL liquipedia? I think crossing fnatic.Oz out was a mistake, since fnatic is not part of ESF. ![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/1dahg.png)
The saying is true. Once you've heard of something, if suddenly turns up everywhere.
I just learned of fantasy gg timing sometime back, and now here is fantasy in the tlpd flesh, well sort of.
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On August 25 2012 20:15 Sethronu wrote:
Damn eSF is being really stupid now. Pulling out of OSL in the first place was kind of questionable, their last statement is just bullshit. Can't help but wonder if they're actually scared of KeSPA players taking over their income (remember Puzzle directly saying he's thinking about retiring after his games vs CJ_herO?) and are trying to maintain a rift between the two organizations just to remain relevant. After all, there is absolutely no reason for GSL players to actually be wanting serious additional competition in both GSL and foreign tournaments, and KeSPA players already shown us that with right preparation, they can be a real threat to eSF players. I'm actually surprised people are missing that angle on this dispute.
Er. No. They kind of invited them to come play in the GSL - hence allowing them to compete on even terms with the already established SC2 pros. Not to mention that there are multiple foreigners, nevermind top teir Code S Koreas, that can pretty much hammer the old Brood War pros. Someone like Nerchio, Stephano, Naniwa or Thorzain on a good day can cleave Code A Koreans one after another.
Kespa are trying their usual bullcrap and ESF aren't standing for it. Good on them. No amount of you attempting to warp the situation to defend the old guard is going to make this look any better. We aren't stupid.
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On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it. so i think its wrong to say kespa is bad/evil for not having a foreign market.
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Nestea taking Firm decisions...I approve
Ruling over Korean SC2 with an Iron Fist
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On August 25 2012 20:40 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it.
KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors. Because of that, the foreign scene is definitely better off with ESF.
I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
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On August 25 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:40 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it. KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors. I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl.
what does korean bank account have to do anything....
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On August 25 2012 20:45 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:40 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it. KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors. I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account? ...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything....
With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
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On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
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Honestly, I wouldn't care if in the long run Kespa takes control and it ends up just like bw. why? because i really liked watching Korean commentated games, the storylines will still be explained from the worshippable voluntary translators and what counts in the end is the quality of the game. I expect the bw pros to surpass current GSL player's skill in the future.
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On August 25 2012 20:47 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:45 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:40 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it. KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors. I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account? ...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything.... With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
i never paid a single dime for bw. ongamenet was free except for certain hq vods, which were 50 cents to $1 if i remember correctly. you only needed korean social security number, which majority of korean websites require. and the tutorials were on how to generate fake kssn or making a foreign account.
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On August 25 2012 20:48 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:47 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:45 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:40 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it. KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors. I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account? ...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything.... With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it. i never paid a single dime for bw. ongamenet was free except for certain vods, which were 50 cents to $1 if i remember correctly. you only needed korean social security number, which majority of korean websites require.
You misunderstood me. I am not buying it means "I don't believe it".
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On August 25 2012 20:49 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:48 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:47 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:45 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:40 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it. KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors. I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account? ...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything.... With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it. i never paid a single dime for bw. ongamenet was free except for certain vods, which were 50 cents to $1 if i remember correctly. you only needed korean social security number, which majority of korean websites require. You misunderstood me. I am not buying it means "I don't believe it".
then what do you mean how mlg turned out?
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Kespa will probably find a way to save OSL in the next few days. But I doubt they will change their decision to attend GSL4.
They will be fine. As those talented Kespa players catching up quickly, they will dominate SC2 just as they did in BW, not to mention that HOTS is coming soon.
I will defintely watch both GSL and OSL. Whatever happens it is natural and part of evolution.
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On August 25 2012 20:47 BrosephBrostar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
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On August 25 2012 20:47 BrosephBrostar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
Foreign seeds into their tournament, or the ability for foreigners to take part in their tournament period (none of this regulated to practice partner nonsense)
Their players in foreign tournaments
A foreign language VOD hub
Interaction with foreigners (streams)
Since you asked so nicely
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On August 25 2012 20:47 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:45 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:40 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it. KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors. I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account? ...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything.... With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
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On August 25 2012 20:39 Evangelist wrote:
Someone like Nerchio, Stephano, Naniwa or Thorzain on a good day can cleave Code A Koreans one after another.
This made me laugh. Man, you can't be serious.
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On August 25 2012 20:55 Kergy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:47 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:45 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:42 achan1058 wrote:On August 25 2012 20:40 jinorazi wrote:On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it. KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors. I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account? ...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything.... With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it. If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
Not for the teams that were out. It's reasonable for certain teams not to send their players because of finals. Some SC2 teams have done the same as well, and we don't blame them. But the way the decision was made on the whole of KeSPA makes me deeply uneasy.
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On August 25 2012 20:52 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 20:47 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote:On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote:
BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him... I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you. It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something. KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues. KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event. As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker. History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene. The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly. If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene. If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect. Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest. I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form. You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do? To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
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EPT
