On August 25 2012 20:33 GuitarBizarre wrote: [quote]
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it.
KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors.
I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything....
With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
Not for the teams that were out. It's reasonable for certain teams not to send their players because of finals. Some SC2 teams have done the same as well, and we don't blame them. But the way the decision was made on the whole of KeSPA makes me deeply uneasy.
Only 2 teams were out and this is not the finals, just the end of the regular season. Next up is the playoffs and these two days are extremely important for the remaining teams to get a good spot or grab the last one -_-
Those 2 teams can send players.
then the fault lies with kespa's system on not letting teams make the decisions instead of kespa making the decisions for everyone. no need to say kespa wants to kill gom or dont care about foreigners.
It's a natural conclusion if you assume KeSPA is not a benevolent organization. You might be fine in assuming that KeSPA is benevolent, I am not.
correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it.
KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors.
I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything....
With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
Not for the teams that were out. It's reasonable for certain teams not to send their players because of finals. Some SC2 teams have done the same as well, and we don't blame them. But the way the decision was made on the whole of KeSPA makes me deeply uneasy.
Only 2 teams were out and this is not the finals, just the end of the regular season. Next up is the playoffs and these two days are extremely important for the remaining teams to get a good spot or grab the last one -_-
Those 2 teams can send players.
then the fault lies with kespa's system on not letting teams make the decisions instead of kespa making the decisions for everyone. no need to say kespa wants to kill gom or dont care about foreigners.
It's a natural conclusion if you assume KeSPA is not a benevolent organization. You might be fine in assuming that KeSPA is benevolent, I am not.
no, i try to remain neutral and talk on how we can resolve this issue from facts we know from official statements, not jump to conclusions because that leads us nowhere.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
Foreign seeds into their tournament, or the ability for foreigners to take part in their tournament period (none of this regulated to practice partner nonsense) Their players in foreign tournaments A foreign language VOD hub Interaction with foreigners (streams)
Since you asked so nicely
Have you heard of Giyom, ElkY or Slayer? Does Hexatron ring a bell? WCG, IESF, IEF, Stars War? Partnering up with Chinese broadcasters?
Why would OGN/MBC seed foreigners who were unable to pass Courage - playing against amateurs - into OSL or MSL (or Dual Tournament/Survivor)? The two best Chinese BW players, PJ and Lx, joined SKT T1. At the time Chinese players were way ahead of other non-Koreans. Their two best players failed to impress:
Not to mention the WC3 scene run by KeSPA - SK and 4K invited to compete in the Clan League, foreigners invited to numerous tournaments over the years (like PrimeLeague or WarCraft World War), KeSPA WC3 players playing in countless international events.
Sure, KeSPA might've done some more, but they still did a whole lot. In case of inviting BW foreigners, a lot more than they deserved (only Nony and Draco were good enough).
On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote: [quote]
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it.
KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors.
I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything....
With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
Not for the teams that were out. It's reasonable for certain teams not to send their players because of finals. Some SC2 teams have done the same as well, and we don't blame them. But the way the decision was made on the whole of KeSPA makes me deeply uneasy.
Only 2 teams were out and this is not the finals, just the end of the regular season. Next up is the playoffs and these two days are extremely important for the remaining teams to get a good spot or grab the last one -_-
Those 2 teams can send players.
Only one, ACE players cannot leave the country because they're on military service.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
What about Kespa going back on the ESF's good faith and pulling out of GSL4 and not even participating in the qualifiers? Look as fans I know we all want just great games to watch and enjoy. I understand your position but you are the EXTREME, and i repeat EXTREME minority in this defending Kespa to this end and continuously asking for more and more evidence. Don't you see that you're even being seen as a troll at this point. Look, in the end as long as Kespa and ESF can get along and provide games for the viewers and nothing like the BW dictatorship days come to sc2 then I am satisfied. Whatever happens within the next week or so I only hope for the best.
There you go painting kespa like an evil empire again.
This is you.
Please don't speak to me as if you know my position on things or what I feel. I have no problems with either organization and only hope that decisions are made in the best interest of the players. I've gone as far as to state that I just want them to get along, especially with the history that Kespa has in BW, you cannot blame anyone for being skeptical. You are going to far as to painting my picture for me and saying that I think they are "evil". If I truly did then I would of showed a lot more discontent in what I said. I realize now that you're being extremely ignorant and I guess to me at least a complete troll(or really stuck up), I'll check for updates in this thread and see how things pan out, but I'm done with any further discussion with someone like you.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
Are you not aware of the timeline here? Kespa pulls out of GSL4 and as a response (and defence against these sorts of tactics, obviously), ESF pulls out of OSL.
What kind of twisted logic are you using to equate pulling players that have already gone through the preliminaries and are scheduled to play with notifying a league well in advance that you won't be participating?
You're kidding, right? The reason Kespa is refusing to allow their players (who have stated multiple times that they want to participate) to participate for the sole reason of hamstringing GOM, and you are saying that it's wrong for GOM to take some counter-measures to prevent that? There is no reason for Kespa to disallow players from playing in GSL4. They already backed out of GSL 3 for good reason and nobody really complained about it because there were legitimate reasons for doing so. This time the reason is quite obviously to hurt GOM and help the OSL, that's not how things work.
When you try and fuck your competition over as hard as humanly possible for years you can't expect them to sit there and take it with no retaliation, that's just ridiculous.
On August 25 2012 20:59 SilSol wrote: I don't get why everyone can't get along ;D
Because Kespa is used to have all the control and a monopoly. They want it again for SC2 and GOM is in the way of their dominance (thankfully). So they try to scheme and use these sorts of dirty tricks to weaken GOM and keep them out of business, like they did in the BW days.
It's good that the scene is so global now that these types of shady tactics get thrown in the spotlight. It's a new way of dealing with business for Kespa, who are used to getting their way and silencing their opponents behind closed doors.
Well, if you firmly believe that Kespa wants to take total control of SC2 and kill GOM， then you will always have some negative feeling toward Kespa no matter what they do.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
Are you not aware of the timeline here? Kespa pulls out of GSL4 and as a response (and defence against these sorts of tactics, obviously), ESF pulls out of OSL.
What kind of twisted logic are you using to equate pulling players that have already gone through the preliminaries and are scheduled to play with notifying a league well in advance that you won't be participating?
You're kidding, right? The reason Kespa is refusing to allow their players (who have stated multiple times that they want to participate) to participate for the sole reason of hamstringing GOM, and you are saying that it's wrong for GOM to take some counter-measures to prevent that? There is no reason for Kespa to disallow players from playing in GSL4, they already backed out of GSL 3 for good reason and nobody really complained about it because there were legitimate reasons for doing so. When you try and fuck your competition over as hard as humanly possible for years you can't expect them to sit there and take it with no retaliation, that's just ridiculous.
What about the fact that they haven't made a full transition yet? Half their teams still have to play BW for the upcoming weeks.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
Are you not aware of the timeline here? Kespa pulls out of GSL4 and as a response (and defence against these sorts of tactics, obviously), ESF pulls out of OSL.
What kind of twisted logic are you using to equate pulling players that have already gone through the preliminaries and are scheduled to play with notifying a league well in advance that you won't be participating?
You're kidding, right? The reason Kespa is refusing to allow their players (who have stated multiple times that they want to participate) to participate for the sole reason of hamstringing GOM, and you are saying that it's wrong for GOM to take some counter-measures to prevent that? There is no reason for Kespa to disallow players from playing in GSL4. They already backed out of GSL 3 for good reason and nobody really complained about it because there were legitimate reasons for doing so. This time the reason is quite obviously to hurt GOM and help the OSL, that's not how things work.
When you try and fuck your competition over as hard as humanly possible for years you can't expect them to sit there and take it with no retaliation, that's just ridiculous.
Whatever their reasons may be pulling out of a tournament that's already underway is a dick move no matter how you look at it. You're just like those wackos who try to excuse Pearl Harbor because Japan was "just" trying to secure the oil that was being withheld to them.
On August 25 2012 21:09 ragz_gt wrote: Well, KeSPA have shown plenty that they don't care about foreigners.
This does not really apply in this case except eSF can pull some moral high ground on this issue though.
This post looks funny as fuck with the one right above it. :p
Clarify, foreign VIEWER, which is all I care about really.
They allowed restreams. They allowed people to upload vods of every game on youtube. They allowed people to upload vods with fan commentary. Do I need to remind you about what happens to people who try to do any of that with GSL games?
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
Competition doesn't mean that you should start competing from as early as three year old.
I don't get what you're trying to say here, sorry? Are you implying that ESF/GOM (they are sitting in the same boat here, that's why I mix them up) is acting like a 3 year old?
If that is what you were saying, I believe they have a tendency to act slightly immature in the eyes of western audiences (see prior drama with Naniwa, MLG etc) but in this case I believe going public is their only means of defense against Kespa plans to establish OGN as the only league with the whole competition. For ESF it's either defend themselves now and stand their ground with all means possible or roll over and die, there is nothing childish about that.
Misunderstood. Compare to GSL players, Kespa players are still "young" in SC2.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
Are you not aware of the timeline here? Kespa pulls out of GSL4 and as a response (and defence against these sorts of tactics, obviously), ESF pulls out of OSL.
What kind of twisted logic are you using to equate pulling players that have already gone through the preliminaries and are scheduled to play with notifying a league well in advance that you won't be participating?
You're kidding, right? The reason Kespa is refusing to allow their players (who have stated multiple times that they want to participate) to participate for the sole reason of hamstringing GOM, and you are saying that it's wrong for GOM to take some counter-measures to prevent that? There is no reason for Kespa to disallow players from playing in GSL4. They already backed out of GSL 3 for good reason and nobody really complained about it because there were legitimate reasons for doing so. This time the reason is quite obviously to hurt GOM and help the OSL, that's not how things work.
When you try and fuck your competition over as hard as humanly possible for years you can't expect them to sit there and take it with no retaliation, that's just ridiculous.
Whatever their reasons may be pulling out of a tournament that's already underway is a dick move no matter how you look at it. You're just like those wackos who try to excuse Pearl Harbor because Japan was "just" trying to secure the oil that was being withheld to them.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
Are you not aware of the timeline here? Kespa pulls out of GSL4 and as a response (and defence against these sorts of tactics, obviously), ESF pulls out of OSL.
What kind of twisted logic are you using to equate pulling players that have already gone through the preliminaries and are scheduled to play with notifying a league well in advance that you won't be participating?
The end result is the exact same: the players won't be participating.
I know the BW nostalgia glasses are warping your perception here, but it should be obvious to anyone that this is a ploy by Kespa to get the best competition for THEIR tournaments while simultaneously diminishing the appeal of their competitor's tournaments.
I really hope Kespa gets their nose bloodied on this one, as the way they conduct business is counterproductive to the Korean scene, the international scene, and the growth and legitimacy of esports as a whole.
On August 25 2012 21:09 ragz_gt wrote: Well, KeSPA have shown plenty that they don't care about foreigners.
This does not really apply in this case except eSF can pull some moral high ground on this issue though.
This post looks funny as fuck with the one right above it. :p
Clarify, foreign VIEWER, which is all I care about really.
in that sense i got grief with gomtv too, why no korean live stream!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? they dont care about koreans outside korea. /rant (i tried using korean gomplayer, dont work. i tried vpn, dont work.)
but ogn is casting english for lol (from what i hear) and doa/moletrap is casting osl. for bw, there really was no need since the outside korea bw scene was so small. also the fanbase was already used to korean commentary...not that they cared.
oh yeah, i never paid a single penny to watch bw or sc2 from ogn. i did pay for gom's sc2 though.
On August 25 2012 21:09 ragz_gt wrote: Well, KeSPA have shown plenty that they don't care about foreigners.
This does not really apply in this case except eSF can pull some moral high ground on this issue though.
This post looks funny as fuck with the one right above it. :p
Clarify, foreign VIEWER, which is all I care about really.
They were always super accommodating to any foreigners wanting to watch BW games live. Like, way more so than to Korean viewers; they also never had any quarrels with restreamers and VODs of their games being distributed in the foreign scene. What more could you ask for? It's not like there was a foreign audience of any significance before SC2.
EPT
