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On August 29 2012 09:31 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 06:16 jinorazi wrote:On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. i played bw for almost 10 years before sc2, i was in diamond in season 1 within the first 20 games of my sc2 using random and not knowing about warpgates nor what units were good against what or reading up on tl for guide or builds. i'm 100% sure those who played bw for long time would have similar story. to say being good in bw does not mean good in sc2 is bullshit. on a side note, my first loss, after going 5-0 placement came from 1 reaper because i made zealot first. this was wtf moment for me. I was diamond in season 1 without much attempt too, and I barely play any RTS. Just wc3 team games and customs I got there purely with 1 base muta play, with occasional 2 bases. that was how hard season 1 was.
it was in no way to meant it as a brag, only as an example of how bw helped in sc2 and i agree, it wouldnt be hard for anyone competent (6pool to master or something) albeit its a minority of people in comparison out of the whole sc2 players...but to be fair i played it like i did with bw, macro games...the loud cries of one base, two base and cheese from the community for sc2 were new for me.
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On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:On August 28 2012 14:00 Luepert wrote:On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote:
A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. How about this? NOBODY has ANY legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he does deserve it. When a guy gets round of 8 twice in gsl, and come second at an MLG, then he has, let's say the legitimacy of Naniwa. So far no kespa player has come close to that. good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date wait.......... Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already.
Please stop embarassing yourself:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Mechanics
When someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking
These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins.
Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing.
And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well.
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On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:On August 28 2012 14:00 Luepert wrote:On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote:
A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. How about this? NOBODY has ANY legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he does deserve it. When a guy gets round of 8 twice in gsl, and come second at an MLG, then he has, let's say the legitimacy of Naniwa. So far no kespa player has come close to that. good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date wait.......... Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsShow nested quote +When someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well.
You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it."
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I didn't know esports and nerds could be so dramatic. How was the first day in the OSL?
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On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:On August 28 2012 14:00 Luepert wrote:On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote:
A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. How about this? NOBODY has ANY legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he does deserve it. When a guy gets round of 8 twice in gsl, and come second at an MLG, then he has, let's say the legitimacy of Naniwa. So far no kespa player has come close to that. good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date wait.......... Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it."
...What? He legitimately wasn't playing well when he switched, you can go look at the statistics yourself. And he's done pretty well considering, he's a Code S level player for sure.
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On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:On August 28 2012 14:00 Luepert wrote:On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote:
A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. How about this? NOBODY has ANY legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he does deserve it. When a guy gets round of 8 twice in gsl, and come second at an MLG, then he has, let's say the legitimacy of Naniwa. So far no kespa player has come close to that. good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date wait.......... Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it."
Well I never was a fOrGG believer. He was way past his prime by the time he switched. Don't even try to argue Hyun. Take a look at his BW career stats. He may have been an A-teamer, but he wasn't creme of the crop.
These new guys switching over in their prime and still could have carved a much better legacy for themselves in BW if they were not forced to switch.
These guys are the ones a lot of your SC2 idols watched on TV before they decided "hey, I want to go pro". Don't you think that adds to their credibility?
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On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:On August 28 2012 14:00 Luepert wrote:On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote:
A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. How about this? NOBODY has ANY legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he does deserve it. When a guy gets round of 8 twice in gsl, and come second at an MLG, then he has, let's say the legitimacy of Naniwa. So far no kespa player has come close to that. good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date wait.......... Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map.
Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then?
On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me.
I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation.
They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb.
On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:On August 28 2012 14:00 Luepert wrote:On August 28 2012 12:11 0neder wrote:
A Kespa A-teamer automatically has at least some legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he doesn't deserve it. How about this? NOBODY has ANY legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he does deserve it. When a guy gets round of 8 twice in gsl, and come second at an MLG, then he has, let's say the legitimacy of Naniwa. So far no kespa player has come close to that. good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date wait.......... Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it."
Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice.
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On August 29 2012 14:26 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:
[quote]
How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:On August 28 2012 14:00 Luepert wrote:
[quote]
How about this? NOBODY has ANY legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he does deserve it. When a guy gets round of 8 twice in gsl, and come second at an MLG, then he has, let's say the legitimacy of Naniwa. So far no kespa player has come close to that.
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date wait.......... Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then? Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me. I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation. They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb. Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:On August 28 2012 14:00 Luepert wrote:
[quote]
How about this? NOBODY has ANY legitimacy in SC2 until he indicates that he does deserve it. When a guy gets round of 8 twice in gsl, and come second at an MLG, then he has, let's say the legitimacy of Naniwa. So far no kespa player has come close to that.
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date wait.......... Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it." Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice.
LMFAO don't flatter yourself with that "nice" comment, you're not very good at disguising your blatant trolling. No SC2 and BW are not the same game. No forgg did not do very well, he got knocked out of code S just as quickly as he got in. And no I'm sorry but SC2 and BW are not similar enough that anyone switching from one to the other has any sort of legitimacy without first proving themselves. By your logic any of the SC2 heroes that didn't play BW could've gone into BW and won an OSL and should be given cred as potential BW champs because they play SC2. Oh what's that you're gonna say? Door only swings one way, because that's how you want it to be? Sorry bud but the world doesn't work like that, nice try.
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On August 29 2012 15:27 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 14:26 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then? On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me. I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation. They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb. On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it." Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice. LMFAO don't flatter yourself with that "nice" comment, you're not very good at disguising your blatant trolling. No SC2 and BW are not the same game. No forgg did not do very well, he got knocked out of code S just as quickly as he got in. And no I'm sorry but SC2 and BW are not similar enough that anyone switching from one to the other has any sort of legitimacy without first proving themselves. By your logic any of the SC2 heroes that didn't play BW could've gone into BW and won an OSL and should be given cred as potential BW champs because they play SC2. Oh what's that you're gonna say? Door only swings one way, because that's how you want it to be? Sorry bud but the world doesn't work like that, nice try.
Nobody is arguing they're the same game, why would you ever be hung up on the idea that someone would argue something like that? It says here forgg has been in Code S quite a bit, and NaDa was in Code S even more. Even if he fell out as soon as he got in, in what frame of reference is that not doing well? Are Code S players a dime a dozen to you?
The "by your logic" shit is nonsense. Apparently this discussion hasn't been able to converge on a definition of legitimacy, so you just filled in your own and assume your opponents would agree with the idea that legitimacy means winning a GSL or OSL. There's obviously some credence to what people are saying because an entire fucking scene has up and switched to a different game (note again, games that are different aren't the same, which is why nobody thinks SC2 and BW are the same game) without making fools of themselves.
Furthermore, it's entirely possible in general for things to only work in one direction. I'd think that would be obvious? It's pretty easy for a plane to land, but it takes a lot of thrust to take off.
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On August 29 2012 15:27 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 14:26 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then? On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me. I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation. They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb. On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it." Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice. LMFAO don't flatter yourself with that "nice" comment, you're not very good at disguising your blatant trolling. No SC2 and BW are not the same game. No forgg did not do very well, he got knocked out of code S just as quickly as he got in. And no I'm sorry but SC2 and BW are not similar enough that anyone switching from one to the other has any sort of legitimacy without first proving themselves. By your logic any of the SC2 heroes that didn't play BW could've gone into BW and won an OSL and should be given cred as potential BW champs because they play SC2. Oh what's that you're gonna say? Door only swings one way, because that's how you want it to be? Sorry bud but the world doesn't work like that, nice try.
Yes, I just said SC2 and BW are not the same game. I'm glad you agree. So Code S is not going very well? Oh well, at least I consider being a Code S level terran, doing quite well. You don't think they're similar enough? That's nice. Perhaps you should argue the point and not just assert it.
Actually that is your logic. Not mine. If good in BW, then good in SC2, yes, but that doesn't mean that if good in SC2, then good in BW. Of course that is probably true to an extent. I don't think, say, Stephano would be a D- zerg in BW. But also nothing special.
|
On August 29 2012 15:27 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 14:26 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then? On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me. I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation. They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb. On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it." Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice. LMFAO don't flatter yourself with that "nice" comment, you're not very good at disguising your blatant trolling. No SC2 and BW are not the same game. No forgg did not do very well, he got knocked out of code S just as quickly as he got in. And no I'm sorry but SC2 and BW are not similar enough that anyone switching from one to the other has any sort of legitimacy without first proving themselves. By your logic any of the SC2 heroes that didn't play BW could've gone into BW and won an OSL and should be given cred as potential BW champs because they play SC2. Oh what's that you're gonna say? Door only swings one way, because that's how you want it to be? Sorry bud but the world doesn't work like that, nice try.
Um, it is possible for logic to only work one way.
All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
Substitute that with All BW players have mechanical skill that will translate well in SC2, but not all SC2 players can play BW with a high level of mechanical skill.
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The GSL gave just a few seeds to Kespa players. I fail to see the harm in here. Yes, it will exclude some non-Kespa players who otherwise would have gotten in that places, but it is only for a single season. Having Kespa players from the beginning of GSL 2012 season 4 helps in several ways. It shows goodwill to Kespa and players because it creates a welcoming atmosphere for the transistion of the Kespa players to SC2. It is also a guarantee to have any Kespa players at all in the GSL, so OSL is not the only league where the story of the rivalry is narrated. It helps to keep the public interest in the GSL alive instead of focussing too much on the OSL.
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On August 29 2012 15:27 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 14:26 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then? On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me. I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation. They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb. On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:On August 28 2012 15:35 StorrZerg wrote:
[quote]
good thing kespa players have played in every single mlg and gsl to date
wait..........
Pretty bad statement to make man. Something to be said after a few gsls and mlgs when kespa players have played in them How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it." Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice. LMFAO don't flatter yourself with that "nice" comment, you're not very good at disguising your blatant trolling. No SC2 and BW are not the same game. No forgg did not do very well, he got knocked out of code S just as quickly as he got in. And no I'm sorry but SC2 and BW are not similar enough that anyone switching from one to the other has any sort of legitimacy without first proving themselves. By your logic any of the SC2 heroes that didn't play BW could've gone into BW and won an OSL and should be given cred as potential BW champs because they play SC2. Oh what's that you're gonna say? Door only swings one way, because that's how you want it to be? Sorry bud but the world doesn't work like that, nice try.
Buddy the only person I can see trolling in this thread is you. Your combination of misinterpretation and over exaggeration are such that I sincerely hope that you are trolling, if not I suggest you actually try to read the above posters, which at this point are just trying to help you understand, and stop trying to "win the argument".
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On August 29 2012 19:05 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 15:27 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 14:26 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:
[quote]
Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:
[quote]
How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then? On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me. I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation. They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb. On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:On August 28 2012 15:43 bo1b wrote:
[quote]
How is him saying that people have to earn legitimacy a bad statement? Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it." Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice. LMFAO don't flatter yourself with that "nice" comment, you're not very good at disguising your blatant trolling. No SC2 and BW are not the same game. No forgg did not do very well, he got knocked out of code S just as quickly as he got in. And no I'm sorry but SC2 and BW are not similar enough that anyone switching from one to the other has any sort of legitimacy without first proving themselves. By your logic any of the SC2 heroes that didn't play BW could've gone into BW and won an OSL and should be given cred as potential BW champs because they play SC2. Oh what's that you're gonna say? Door only swings one way, because that's how you want it to be? Sorry bud but the world doesn't work like that, nice try. Buddy the only person I can see trolling in this thread is you. Your combination of misinterpretation and over exaggeration are such that I sincerely hope that you are trolling, if not I suggest you actually try to read the above posters, which at this point are just trying to help you understand, and stop trying to "win the argument".
Nice username!! Sorry to go OT  As for the trolling, yeah it's gotten out of hand, I don't get how anyone could argue being great at BW wouldn't translate to SC2 skills.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 29 2012 22:53 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 19:05 Myrddraal wrote:On August 29 2012 15:27 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 14:26 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then? On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me. I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation. They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb. On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it." Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice. LMFAO don't flatter yourself with that "nice" comment, you're not very good at disguising your blatant trolling. No SC2 and BW are not the same game. No forgg did not do very well, he got knocked out of code S just as quickly as he got in. And no I'm sorry but SC2 and BW are not similar enough that anyone switching from one to the other has any sort of legitimacy without first proving themselves. By your logic any of the SC2 heroes that didn't play BW could've gone into BW and won an OSL and should be given cred as potential BW champs because they play SC2. Oh what's that you're gonna say? Door only swings one way, because that's how you want it to be? Sorry bud but the world doesn't work like that, nice try. Buddy the only person I can see trolling in this thread is you. Your combination of misinterpretation and over exaggeration are such that I sincerely hope that you are trolling, if not I suggest you actually try to read the above posters, which at this point are just trying to help you understand, and stop trying to "win the argument". Nice username!! Sorry to go OT As for the trolling, yeah it's gotten out of hand, I don't get how anyone could argue being great at BW wouldn't translate to SC2 skills.
haha bisu.
i kid, please don't hurt me!
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On August 29 2012 22:53 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 19:05 Myrddraal wrote:On August 29 2012 15:27 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 14:26 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 06:11 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 06:01 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:47 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:35 Xiphos wrote:On August 29 2012 05:31 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? You don't seem to understand that SC2 =/= BW. They are not the same game, BW champions have no legitimacy in SC2 until they earn it. You can get angry and claim otherwise, but it won't change the fact that it's true. Lol this guy have little game knowledge about both game. You say that because I disagree with your clearly biased opinion. I will bet anything that I've played SC1 and BW before you. And I'm quite sure I am and have been higher ranked than you and squeegy in SC2. But I've probably fed you 2 too much, I'll leave you to your trolling. I find it hilarious that you refuse to reply to my simple question that highlights your fallacy. Nobody cares if you played some BW years ago. Everybody and their mom did. Or at least that's what everybody and their mom will claim nowadays. You're still a newbie to the scene. On August 29 2012 05:43 gedatsu wrote:On August 29 2012 05:21 Squeegy wrote:On August 29 2012 05:05 hunts wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. Sorry but SC2 =/= BW. BW pros don't have any legitimacy in SC2 until they prove themselves. Just as they wouldn't have any in WC3, LoL, dota2, or power lifting until they could prove themselves. Telling people to "remain silent" because they disagree with your biased opinion is not a very nice thing either, but it's expected of someone like you at this point so meh, mods don't care lol. But we are not talking about your WoW. We are talking about SC. It does not follow from SC2 is not BW that BW champions have to earn their legitimacy from the ground again. Take a weightlifting champion and make him a powerlifter. Do you think he won't have any legitimacy from the start? In BW you build probes by pressing P. In SC2 you build them by pressing E. I would probably have been able to beat Jangbi in his first ever SC2 game. So yes, a BW champion has to earn his legitimacy in SC2. Good at BW does not equate to good at SC2, it only makes the learning go faster. So because you don't instantly master the game, you have no legitimacy? I suppose that means the current F1 champion has no legitimacy in the backwards-F1, where everything is the same, except you drive the route to the other way. Nevermind the fact that he will learn this quite quickly, but if no one tells him, then he has no legitimacy in this sport, because F1 =/= Backwards-F1. A player that I can beat does not have any legitimacy at all. It's determined by how good a player is, not how good he may become. Regardless of how little time he requires to become that good. Backwards-F1 is the same sport as F1, it's just a different track. Equivalent to playing SC2 on a new map. Okay. Let us switch the places of break and gas as well. Not the same sport anymore. Now, answer my question. Does he hold any legitimacy then? On August 29 2012 06:15 Yorbon wrote:
Am i the only one who finds the legitimacy of a player absurd? I mean fxochoya as a coach can be considered legitimate by people on the team. Or a government by people in a country. But a player, by who?
I think people mean a player is noteworthy, deserving of a placement in a tournament or to be respected for overall skill. Or perhaps expectations should be high. But none of this has anything to do with legitimacy. Maybe i'm looking at this too technical, but the use of the term 'legitimacy' in this discussion sounds weird to me. I don't think the word 'legitimacy' is well defined in this context. They just mean that a player is nothing unless he has proven it in SC2. Which is, of course, ridiculous considering (for example) that something like 95% of the top players are from BW and 95% of them were also very good at it. Clearly there is correlation. They just claim BW background does not help because player who was, say, rank 284 in BW is not in that exact same spot in SC2. Which is, of course, dumber than it sounds. And it also sounds very dumb. On August 29 2012 12:15 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 10:28 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 09:23 hunts wrote:On August 29 2012 08:55 rebdomine wrote:On August 29 2012 08:15 TommyP wrote:On August 28 2012 16:16 Squeegy wrote:
[quote]
Because his idea of earning it is disrespectful towards the Kespa pros. These guys have earned legitimacy through BW already and it counts. Of course a newbie to the scene might not understand that but he should simply remain silent then. Ignorance is not something to brag about. But thats a different game. It doesnt count for me and thats coming from a guy that likes Brood war and the players. It just so happens that this different game is the predecessor of this newer game. A lot of the mechanics they learned will carry over quite well. Yeah man those creep tumors were so good in BW, I'm glad scourge and lurkers own in SC2, and man those dragoon warp ins were brutal in BW! No really, just because one's a sequel does not make it the same, as has been proven already. Please stop embarassing yourself: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/MechanicsWhen someone refers to a players mechanics they are referring to the non strategical aspects of a players game. Aspects of mechanical skill include:
Micro
Macro
Multitasking These things carry over well regardless of lack of creep spread in BW or warp-ins. Funny you mention warp-ins cause that gameplay design actually makes macro a lot easier. Leaving a lot more multitasking potential for micro-ing. And I imagine having to select each hatchery to make units in BW while macro'ing as zerg translates to queen injects real well. You're the one arguing that SC2 and BW are the same game though, so you're the only one here embarrassing yourself. Pretty sure we already went over this when forgg transfered to SC2 and everyone said how he would dominate it and win GSL because he was good in BW. How did that turn out? Oh yeah, as soon as he got owned all the BW fans went "nah just kidding he was never good we disown him for not proving our point and won't admit that by not proving it he helps disprove it." Nobody is actually arguing SC2 and BW are the same game. For example SC2 has marauders, BW does not. Therefore, not the same game. But the games have plenty of similarities for there to be plenty of carryover. That is why the claims of his legitimacy prior to having played in any tournaments proved to be true. Not in that he is a GSL champion but in that he is a top level terran. But why do I keep trying to educate you despite your lack of ability to learn? I guess I'm just that nice. LMFAO don't flatter yourself with that "nice" comment, you're not very good at disguising your blatant trolling. No SC2 and BW are not the same game. No forgg did not do very well, he got knocked out of code S just as quickly as he got in. And no I'm sorry but SC2 and BW are not similar enough that anyone switching from one to the other has any sort of legitimacy without first proving themselves. By your logic any of the SC2 heroes that didn't play BW could've gone into BW and won an OSL and should be given cred as potential BW champs because they play SC2. Oh what's that you're gonna say? Door only swings one way, because that's how you want it to be? Sorry bud but the world doesn't work like that, nice try. Buddy the only person I can see trolling in this thread is you. Your combination of misinterpretation and over exaggeration are such that I sincerely hope that you are trolling, if not I suggest you actually try to read the above posters, which at this point are just trying to help you understand, and stop trying to "win the argument". Nice username!! Sorry to go OT As for the trolling, yeah it's gotten out of hand, I don't get how anyone could argue being great at BW wouldn't translate to SC2 skills.
Thank you , and you too, though admittedly I couldn't think of who it was straight away haha. Yeah the KeSPA players definitely proved it these last two days, if they hadn't already in the WCS qualifiers. So glad KeSPA and ESF were able to work together, the rivalry between the two groups of players really adds to the scene, giving a bit of a shake up.
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EPT
