I'm really happy that Kespa got slapped down hard here, their strongarm tactics worked in BW to give them a monopoly, but it won't work in SC2 since they... don't have a strong arm there.
Here's hoping Kespa gets shut down completely when its players turn to the open market and abandon that shit. That is, if they manage to escape their exploitative contracts, Kespa and its mafia-like structure are hard to get away from.
Anyone who cares about SC2, who cares about a global scene should stand 100% against Kespa's bullying and strongarm tactics. Take off your BW-nostalgia glasses and look at reality, guys.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
Competition doesn't mean that you should start competing from as early as three year old.
On August 25 2012 20:15 Sethronu wrote: Damn eSF is being really stupid now. Pulling out of OSL in the first place was kind of questionable, their last statement is just bullshit. Can't help but wonder if they're actually scared of KeSPA players taking over their income (remember Puzzle directly saying he's thinking about retiring after his games vs CJ_herO?) and are trying to maintain a rift between the two organizations just to remain relevant. After all, there is absolutely no reason for GSL players to actually be wanting serious additional competition in both GSL and foreign tournaments, and KeSPA players already shown us that with right preparation, they can be a real threat to eSF players. I'm actually surprised people are missing that angle on this dispute.
Er. No. They kind of invited them to come play in the GSL - hence allowing them to compete on even terms with the already established SC2 pros. Not to mention that there are multiple foreigners, nevermind top teir Code S Koreas, that can pretty much hammer the old Brood War pros. Someone like Nerchio, Stephano, Naniwa or Thorzain on a good day can cleave Code A Koreans one after another.
Kespa are trying their usual bullcrap and ESF aren't standing for it. Good on them. No amount of you attempting to warp the situation to defend the old guard is going to make this look any better. We aren't stupid.
GomTV invited them, not eSF. There's a difference. Also, GomTV can't really NOT 'invite' them, because their qualifiers had always been open to every player above certain point on the ladder. If they said, "KeSPA teams aren't allowed to participate in our qualifiers", they'd absolutely be the bad guys in everyone's eyes.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
Are you not aware of the timeline here? Kespa pulls out of GSL4 and as a response (and defence against these sorts of tactics, obviously), ESF pulls out of OSL.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
Foreign seeds into their tournament, or the ability for foreigners to take part in their tournament period (none of this regulated to practice partner nonsense) Their players in foreign tournaments A foreign language VOD hub Interaction with foreigners (streams)
Since you asked so nicely
NO. OSL has never been about arbitrary charity seeds.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
Foreign seeds into their tournament, or the ability for foreigners to take part in their tournament period (none of this regulated to practice partner nonsense) Their players in foreign tournaments A foreign language VOD hub Interaction with foreigners (streams)
Since you asked so nicely
A) Why should they give seeds? Why can't international players qualify like everyone else? B) Since they hired English language casters I can only assume that VODs will be available somewhere. C) Why should players stream their preparation? Do the Chicago Bulls let people watch their practice games?
for the sake of conversation please try to leave out kespa hate bias and try to work with what we know for a fact from statements. mixing the two will only lead to more confusion and needless arguments.
esf is genuinely concerned about kespa taking control and kespa wants to reach out to foreign scene and work with gsl. at the same time, they have priorities and at the moment osl and pl are their priorities (regardless of how unlikely you may this think is). and those tournaments require preparations for players, its not like mlg or other short tournaments. no doubt kespa doesnt want their players to focus on other tournaments during later stages of pl where many teams are at the verge of making it or not making it plus the playoffs, at the same time deal with wcg and osl.
i'm giving kespa benefit of the doubt at the moment because if their words are genuine, its a good thing and understandable. only fault i see is with them managing all the teams instead of letting the teams make the decisions. this one thing will solve so many issues.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
What about Kespa going back on the ESF's good faith and pulling out of GSL4 and not even participating in the qualifiers? Look as fans I know we all want just great games to watch and enjoy. I understand your position but you are the EXTREME, and i repeat EXTREME minority in this defending Kespa to this end and continuously asking for more and more evidence. Don't you see that you're even being seen as a troll at this point. Look, in the end as long as Kespa and ESF can get along and provide games for the viewers and nothing like the BW dictatorship days come to sc2 then I am satisfied. Whatever happens within the next week or so I only hope for the best.
On August 25 2012 20:59 SilSol wrote: I don't get why everyone can't get along ;D
Because Kespa is used to have all the control and a monopoly. They want it again for SC2 and GOM is in the way of their dominance (thankfully). So they try to scheme and use these sorts of dirty tricks to weaken GOM and keep them out of business, like they did in the BW days.
It's good that the scene is so global now that these types of shady tactics get thrown in the spotlight. It's a new way of dealing with business for Kespa, who are used to getting their way and silencing their opponents behind closed doors.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
Are you not aware of the timeline here? Kespa pulls out of GSL4 and as a response (and defence against these sorts of tactics, obviously), ESF pulls out of OSL.
What kind of twisted logic are you using to equate pulling players that have already gone through the preliminaries and are scheduled to play with notifying a league well in advance that you won't be participating?
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it.
KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors.
I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything....
With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
Not for the teams that were out. It's reasonable for certain teams not to send their players because of finals. Some SC2 teams have done the same as well, and we don't blame them. But the way the decision was made on the whole of KeSPA makes me deeply uneasy.
Only 2 teams were out and this is not the finals, just the end of the regular season. Next up is the playoffs and these two days are extremely important for the remaining teams to get a good spot or grab the last one -_-
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
Competition doesn't mean that you should start competing from as early as three year old.
I don't get what you're trying to say here, sorry? Are you implying that ESF/GOM (they are sitting in the same boat here, that's why I mix them up) is acting like a 3 year old?
If that is what you were saying, I believe they have a tendency to act slightly immature in the eyes of western audiences (see prior drama with Naniwa, MLG etc) but in this case I believe going public is their only means of defense against Kespa plans to establish OGN as the only league with the whole competition. For ESF it's either defend themselves now and stand their ground with all means possible or roll over and die, there is nothing childish about that.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it.
KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors.
I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything....
With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
Not for the teams that were out. It's reasonable for certain teams not to send their players because of finals. Some SC2 teams have done the same as well, and we don't blame them. But the way the decision was made on the whole of KeSPA makes me deeply uneasy.
Only 2 teams were out and this is not the finals, just the end of the regular season. Next up is the playoffs and these two days are extremely important for the remaining teams to get a good spot or grab the last one -_-
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
Competition doesn't mean that you should start competing from as early as three year old.
I don't get what you're trying to say here, sorry? Are you implying that ESF is acting like a 3 year old?
If that is what you were saying, I believe they have a tendency to act slightly immature in the eyes of western audiences (see prior drama with Naniwa, MLG etc) but in this case I believe going public is their only means of defense against Kespa plans to establish OGN as the only league with the whole competition. For ESF it's either defend themselves now and stand their ground with all means possible or roll over and die, there is nothing childish about that.
Or eSF could, you know, play out the tournament they already entered and then not participate in further ones? Or would that be too reasonable to consider? After all, KeSPA players did play in WCS which was streamed by GomTV exclusively.
Also, read my previous post. eSF is NOT GomTV. While they do have a close collaboration, at the end of the day their interests are not the same, and their goals can't be the same.
On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote: [quote]
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it.
KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors.
I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything....
With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
Not for the teams that were out. It's reasonable for certain teams not to send their players because of finals. Some SC2 teams have done the same as well, and we don't blame them. But the way the decision was made on the whole of KeSPA makes me deeply uneasy.
Only 2 teams were out and this is not the finals, just the end of the regular season. Next up is the playoffs and these two days are extremely important for the remaining teams to get a good spot or grab the last one -_-
Those 2 teams can send players.
Copy and pasted from the other thread.
I'm not sure exactly how accurate this is since I'm only going by another translation, but this is apparently what the Kespa guy said.
The question was "You've been pushing for cooperation with MLG, but why aren't you able to attend MLG 2012 Summer?"
The answer was "Up till two weeks ago, the teams were quite anxious about being able to let their players attend MLG. But at that time, the only team that was definitely not advancing to the playoffs was ACE. All the other 7 teams still had the chance of ending in the top 4, and so many teams were expressing that they were a bit worried about sending their key players overseas to take part in the tournament. As such, we told MLG about the situation then, and they also understood the situation that we were in. Last week, 2 more teams were eliminated, and we were more able to attend MLG. However, the prices of the air tickets had increased threefold, and MLG expressed that it was too much, and as a results, we weren't able to send the players."
Again I emphasize, this is from a translation, and this is from a kespa personnel, so read it with these two points in mind.
On August 25 2012 19:06 Zhalad wrote: BrosephBrostar is either delusional or a troll, probably best just to ignore him...
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
You talk about past experience like it's some kind of ghost. How about you look at the facts? Kespa allowed players like idra and nony to become progamers. They allowed fans to restream games and upload videos with added commentary. Now they hired moletrap and doa to provide live commentary for OS2L. What the hell else do you want them to do?
To not bully and destroy the competition. Is that so hard to understand?
So then how is kespa the bad guy when it's ESF trying to perform a metaphorical abortion on the OS2L by pulling out half the players right before it starts?
What about Kespa going back on the ESF's good faith and pulling out of GSL4 and not even participating in the qualifiers? Look as fans I know we all want just great games to watch and enjoy. I understand your position but you are the EXTREME, and i repeat EXTREME minority in this defending Kespa to this end and continuously asking for more and more evidence. Don't you see that you're even being seen as a troll at this point. Look, in the end as long as Kespa and ESF can get along and provide games for the viewers and nothing like the BW dictatorship days come to sc2 then I am satisfied. Whatever happens within the next week or so I only hope for the best.
There you go painting kespa like an evil empire again.
On August 25 2012 19:13 BrosephBrostar wrote: [quote]
I've yet to see anything but baseless fearmongering from anyone supporting the ESF. Everyone is conveniently forgetting that they're pulling out after previously agreeing to play and going through the preliminaries, but I guess that's ok because kespa is evil and trying to take SC2 away from you.
It's like I'm listening to Al Sharpton or something.
KeSPA refuses to allow their players to go to other tournaments. This weakens other tournaments potential viewership as the BW fans won't watch their leagues.
KeSPA however does state that other leagues players are allowed to play in their tournament. This STRENGTHENS their league as non-BW fans will follow their favourite players in the KeSPA event.
As a result, KeSPA becomes a stronger player in SC2, and GOMTV becomes weaker.
History shows us that KeSPA is very insular and has never provided for, nor shown themselves to give a shit about, an international audience, a policy which had negative and far reaching effects on the international SC:BW scene.
The SC2 scene thus far has been very internationally friendly, and is growing rapidly.
If KeSPA manages to take GOMTV's korean audience away from them (Which their move was calculated to do), then KeSPA has the opportunity to become monopolistic within Korea for the SC2 scene.
If they have a monopoly on SC2 within korea, then we know from past experience that the international scene means nothing to them. The likely result will be a total lack of international interest, and thus international SC2 will once again be seperate from Korean SC2, which can only be a negative effect.
Competition between the leagues can only be a good thing. KeSPA re-establishing their BW monopoly can only be a good thing if we expect KeSPA to provide for an international audience in which they have previously had no interest.
I don't think anyone reasonable can expect KeSPA to provide the international audience with what they want. Probably quite the opposite, going on past form.
correct me if i'm wrong...there was no bw scene outside korea, at least significant enough for kespa/ogn/mbc to care. tlnet was the foreigner's hub, tlnet was the fanboys of bw and was leeching off of korean scene. kespa had 0 reason to care for foreigners since all their market was inside korea through tv, foreigners were nothing but a niche market not worthy of putting effort in...until gomtv (they're not tv station). i watched everything through ongamenet.com, there were tutorials on how to open an account through ongamenet so people outside can watch it.
KeSPA still has no interest in the foreign scene now. Look at what kind of sponsors they represent. Almost all of them don't need foreign exposure. Compare that to the SC2 teams that got big sponsors.
I mean, how many people who does not live in Korea wants a Korean bank account?
...they do have interest in foreign scene, they said it, they have english lol casts and doa/moletrap is casting osl. what does korean bank account have to do anything....
With how MLG turned out? I am not buying it.
If you're referring to the fact that Kespa players are not going to this MLG, this weekend is the most important one for the Kespa teams because it's the final one of the regular season of Proleague. No other tournament is more important that PL for the Kespa teams.
Not for the teams that were out. It's reasonable for certain teams not to send their players because of finals. Some SC2 teams have done the same as well, and we don't blame them. But the way the decision was made on the whole of KeSPA makes me deeply uneasy.
Only 2 teams were out and this is not the finals, just the end of the regular season. Next up is the playoffs and these two days are extremely important for the remaining teams to get a good spot or grab the last one -_-
Those 2 teams can send players.
then the fault lies with kespa's system on not letting teams make the decisions instead of kespa making the decisions for everyone. no need to say kespa wants to kill gom or dont care about foreigners.
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