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On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 16:45 Qwyn wrote:
No it doesn't really, b/c the lack of KeSPA players just leaves the GSL as it has always been, lol. But when they are allowed to play it's going to be fucking awesome. No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior.
The GSL's integrity is not KESPA's responsibility.
Frankly, letting professionals qualify into the pre-tournament for a chance to enter the Round of 32 is not enough. OSL runs qualifiers directly into the round of 32, so players don't waste their time on 'Code A' gimmickry.
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On August 23 2012 21:43 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:32 boxman22 wrote:On August 23 2012 21:21 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They CREATED this monopoly, by being miles and leagues ahead of any other attempt at running of an e-sports event. They built up all the infrastructure, helped with team organization, kept things like player trades etc civil. They are basically everything any organized sports scene needs, and what SC2 lacks. On a side note, I'm pretty sure the term 'monopoly' isn't even applicable, just like FIFA or UEFA or whatever isn't exactly a monopoly on football. FIFA or UEFA don't have a monopoly on football because players can go where they like and you very often see people move. Look at how many leagues there are. Premier league, bundesleague, la liga, (even MLS -_-) etc. If the Premier League said its players can't play on their national team, people would probably complain. FIFA does have a (natural) monopoly on football competition. Perhaps KeSPA will have a natural monopoly in Korea in the future aswell. The difference between FIFA and KeSPA is that FIFA does not own the teams. The teams are technically free to enter or leave any league they like. Right now there is room for competition or cooperation in the Korean market, but KeSPA is denying competition by monopolizing resources. If Kespa offer such a superior product so that GOM can't compete, I would have no problem with GOM dying.
Plus, just because other sports have some mafia-like organisation supervising them doesn't mean it's the right way that SC2 should absolutely follow. I think the various leagues and tournaments is very good for SC2.
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On August 23 2012 21:52 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:51 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 21:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:19 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:17 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:
[quote]
KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them. Then why not allow the players to participate in more tournaments? Bad business sense? Growing the whole scene is apparently a bad idea. They seem to want to own the small chunk there currently is instead of building a much bigger chunk. I don't think it is bad business sense. I think Kespa recognises it is in a unique position of power. They own the famous players that can make SC2 a success in Korea, and they have the contacts and infrastructure for television. GOM would die because the best non-Kespa players will want to join them for fame and wealth. If they are able to make this plan work, they will once again have a monopoly over esports in Korea. KeSPA in SC2 can be a great thing, but if they decide what the big name players can and can't do, that will be bad news for almost everyone. The key words there make your post a bit odd. "The international scene would decline." The international scene is bigger than the Korean scene and will be INSTRUMENTAL if SC2 is to continue moving forward, making more money etc etc. If Kespa doesnt care about the international scene just as much as the Korean one then they are fools. lol, you do know who the main sponsors of Kespa's teams are, right? I am sure the korean scene for them is a LOT more important than the foreign scene. Would they like to grow in the foreign scene as well? Sure. But Korean scene will always come first. Look at something like Premier League in soccer in England. They have a big international audience and their teams travel all over the world in the OFF SEASON. Do you think they would travel during the season to other countries to play exhibitions? No. I think we need to take a step back and not just look at it through the eyes of a foreign fan. You need to widen your thinking. If Kespa teams get international exposure they can get international sponsors which means more money for them. Bad idea right? Not necessarily. If they think the scene isn't big enough internationally then it would be a better business decision to stay in Korea.
If they didn't think SC2 was big enough internationally they wouldn't have even switched to SC2.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 16:45 Qwyn wrote:
No it doesn't really, b/c the lack of KeSPA players just leaves the GSL as it has always been, lol. But when they are allowed to play it's going to be fucking awesome. No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior.
true, but really I need to know why KeSPA declined its teams from participating I'm sure its not something unreasonable, They've pulled crazy shit before but this is completely random.
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On August 23 2012 21:51 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:49 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 21:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:19 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:17 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:
[quote]
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed.
KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right.
KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them. Then why not allow the players to participate in more tournaments? Bad business sense? Growing the whole scene is apparently a bad idea. They seem to want to own the small chunk there currently is instead of building a much bigger chunk. I don't think it is bad business sense. I think Kespa recognises it is in a unique position of power. They own the famous players that can make SC2 a success in Korea, and they have the contacts and infrastructure for television. GOM would die because the best non-Kespa players will want to join them for fame and wealth. If they are able to make this plan work, they will once again have a monopoly over esports in Korea. KeSPA in SC2 can be a great thing, but if they decide what the big name players can and can't do, that will be bad news for almost everyone. The key words there make your post a bit odd. "The international scene would decline." The international scene is bigger than the Korean scene and will be INSTRUMENTAL if SC2 is to continue moving forward, making more money etc etc. If Kespa doesnt care about the international scene just as much as the Korean one then they are fools. lol, you do know who the main sponsors of Kespa's teams are, right? I am sure the korean scene for them is a LOT more important than the foreign scene. Would they like to grow in the foreign scene as well? Sure. But Korean scene will always come first. Look at something like Premier League in soccer in England. They have a big international audience and their teams travel all over the world in the OFF SEASON. Do you think they would travel during the season to other countries to play exhibitions? No. I think we need to take a step back and not just look at it through the eyes of a foreign fan. You need to widen your thinking. If Kespa teams get international exposure they can get international sponsors which means more money for them. Bad idea right?
IF KeSPA teams get international exposure without losing their credibility in Korean scene, then yeah it's all dandy for them. But they can't risk losing the support of companies that were backing them for many years through highs and lows just for a CHANCE at getting some new sponsors. On top of that, how many major sponsors do any non-KeSPA teams have? Do you really think trading a Samsung sponsorship for Razer would be a good business move, never mind whatever loyalty they might have or whatever?
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On August 23 2012 21:47 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:43 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 21:40 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 21:34 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 21:32 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 21:21 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 20:50 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:48 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 20:42 imMUTAble787 wrote:
Maybe someone could clue me in, but what exactly have the KeSPA players accomplished in SC2 that warrants any sort of appearance fee ? This. As of now, there's not a single reason kespa or kespa players should receive any more money than regular Code A participants. It would be unfair to non-kespa Code A players if Gom did so. Yea, let's ignore the fact that Gom will get a lot more subscriptions if Kespa players were in the GSL or that their ratings would be higher than any other "Code A participant" could make them. Code A is a tournament. Prizes should be distributed on a scale of tournament placement, not on a scale of popularity. If including Kespa players will add to Gom's viewership, this should reflect in the tournament prizes, not in any direct payment to popular players/team/whatever Kespa is (in other words, more popularity=prizes go up, not more popularity=popularity gets rewarded with direct payment). If Idra (or any popular foreigner) got seeded into Code A, do you think it would be fair for him to receive more money from Gom than the Code S player who placed 4th (for example)? Kespa is exercising control over their players to, I believe, wipe out Gom in the coming months/year. Exercising control over their players is horrible for us viewers because we want to see everyone playing together. We want all Gom players playing in the Kespa tournament and we want all Kespa players playing in the Gom tournament, not this manipulative bullshit. Will you stop saying "we"? I assumed everyone on TL wanted to see the maximum player quality possible in a tournament. Your exception is duly noted. That's a very simplistic way of looking at things. If you think it's simplistic, critique it by all means! Isn't that the point of a forum discussion? Well, that sentence was too simplistic (and snide/snappy) - so calling it simplistic was the only criticism I can give. It just doesn't portray the issue accurately at all. If you're willing to elaborate further on your thoughts behind that sentence, then I could be more elaborate in my criticism of it (or potentially agreement with it) as well! Your point is the much more confusing one. What needs to be explained about his point? I don't understand who wouldn't want to see players able to play in any tournament they'd like to?
That wasn't even his point. His point was about wanting a tournament with maximum quality players. Your point is clearly different.
His point I can agree with in general, it just isn't really relevant to the issue at hand, so it was weird why he decided to look at it that way.
Your point, on the other hand, I actually disagree with. Players can play in any tournament they like if they are independent. If they are members of a pro team, then it is only natural that the team staff decides how, when, and where they play and train.
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On August 23 2012 21:51 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:49 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 21:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:19 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:17 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:
[quote]
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed.
KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right.
KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them. Then why not allow the players to participate in more tournaments? Bad business sense? Growing the whole scene is apparently a bad idea. They seem to want to own the small chunk there currently is instead of building a much bigger chunk. I don't think it is bad business sense. I think Kespa recognises it is in a unique position of power. They own the famous players that can make SC2 a success in Korea, and they have the contacts and infrastructure for television. GOM would die because the best non-Kespa players will want to join them for fame and wealth. If they are able to make this plan work, they will once again have a monopoly over esports in Korea. KeSPA in SC2 can be a great thing, but if they decide what the big name players can and can't do, that will be bad news for almost everyone. The key words there make your post a bit odd. "The international scene would decline." The international scene is bigger than the Korean scene and will be INSTRUMENTAL if SC2 is to continue moving forward, making more money etc etc. If Kespa doesnt care about the international scene just as much as the Korean one then they are fools. lol, you do know who the main sponsors of Kespa's teams are, right? I am sure the korean scene for them is a LOT more important than the foreign scene. Would they like to grow in the foreign scene as well? Sure. But Korean scene will always come first. Look at something like Premier League in soccer in England. They have a big international audience and their teams travel all over the world in the OFF SEASON. Do you think they would travel during the season to other countries to play exhibitions? No. I think we need to take a step back and not just look at it through the eyes of a foreign fan. You need to widen your thinking. If Kespa teams get international exposure they can get international sponsors which means more money for them. Bad idea right?
It is you who need to widen your thinking. Like I said, they would LIKE to grow in the foreign scene. BUT the Korean scene is much more important. And international sponsors would probably only be able pay them a fraction of the current korean sponsors. Of course, more money is better, but the priority is still to those who pay the MOST.
Like I said, why don't we see Premier League teams play in the States, Japan during the season? Surely, they would get more international sponsors and thus more money. Bad idea right?
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not being prepared isn't an excuse, the only way to be the best is to play against the best. Work your way up.
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Not a big deal. All i want is OSL !!!
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On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 16:45 Qwyn wrote:
No it doesn't really, b/c the lack of KeSPA players just leaves the GSL as it has always been, lol. But when they are allowed to play it's going to be fucking awesome. No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior.
Use your brain.
All Kespa has is their players, who have enormous expectations.
Why the fuck would Kespa even risk losing the hype around its players if they thought they needed 1 more week or 1 more year??
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On August 23 2012 21:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 16:45 Qwyn wrote:
No it doesn't really, b/c the lack of KeSPA players just leaves the GSL as it has always been, lol. But when they are allowed to play it's going to be fucking awesome. No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior. true, but really I need to know why KeSPA declined its teams from participating I'm sure its not something unreasonable, They've pulled crazy shit before but this is completely random.
It all comes down to money. Kespa players are hot commodities, they would certainly increase viewership of gom domestically and around the world. That means more money for Gom, and for what, using another organisations players that they have built and supported for a decade.
It's easy for Gom to appeal to the fans and cry victim like this, but we really don't know the arrangement or if Kespa is expected to just hand over their stars, which is their only real valuable asset, for nothing
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On August 23 2012 21:55 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:47 boxman22 wrote:On August 23 2012 21:43 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 21:40 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 21:34 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 21:32 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 21:21 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 20:50 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:48 Sbrubbles wrote:
[quote]
This. As of now, there's not a single reason kespa or kespa players should receive any more money than regular Code A participants. It would be unfair to non-kespa Code A players if Gom did so. Yea, let's ignore the fact that Gom will get a lot more subscriptions if Kespa players were in the GSL or that their ratings would be higher than any other "Code A participant" could make them. Code A is a tournament. Prizes should be distributed on a scale of tournament placement, not on a scale of popularity. If including Kespa players will add to Gom's viewership, this should reflect in the tournament prizes, not in any direct payment to popular players/team/whatever Kespa is (in other words, more popularity=prizes go up, not more popularity=popularity gets rewarded with direct payment). If Idra (or any popular foreigner) got seeded into Code A, do you think it would be fair for him to receive more money from Gom than the Code S player who placed 4th (for example)? Kespa is exercising control over their players to, I believe, wipe out Gom in the coming months/year. Exercising control over their players is horrible for us viewers because we want to see everyone playing together. We want all Gom players playing in the Kespa tournament and we want all Kespa players playing in the Gom tournament, not this manipulative bullshit. Will you stop saying "we"? I assumed everyone on TL wanted to see the maximum player quality possible in a tournament. Your exception is duly noted. That's a very simplistic way of looking at things. If you think it's simplistic, critique it by all means! Isn't that the point of a forum discussion? Well, that sentence was too simplistic (and snide/snappy) - so calling it simplistic was the only criticism I can give. It just doesn't portray the issue accurately at all. If you're willing to elaborate further on your thoughts behind that sentence, then I could be more elaborate in my criticism of it (or potentially agreement with it) as well! Your point is the much more confusing one. What needs to be explained about his point? I don't understand who wouldn't want to see players able to play in any tournament they'd like to? That wasn't even his point. His point was about wanting a tournament with maximum quality players. Your point is clearly different. His point I can agree with in general, it just isn't really relevant to the issue at hand, so it was weird why he decided to look at it that way. Your point, on the other hand, I actually disagree with. Players can play in any tournament they like if they are independent. If they are members of a pro team, then it is only natural that the team staff decides how, when, and where they play and train.
That was not my point, I guess I phrased it poorly. Let me just phrase it this way, why would you not want to see Kespa players in the GSL?
The way I phrased it was poor because I can understand that the team has to be able to decide (for instance if a Kespa player really wanted to play in the MLG this weekend their team has the right to keep them for proleague).
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Austria24417 Posts
On August 23 2012 21:57 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 16:45 Qwyn wrote:
No it doesn't really, b/c the lack of KeSPA players just leaves the GSL as it has always been, lol. But when they are allowed to play it's going to be fucking awesome. No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior. Use your brain. All Kespa has is their players, who have enormous expectations. Why the fuck would Kespa even risk losing the hype around its players if they thought they needed 1 more week or 1 more year??
Then why is there a dual tournament in which the BEST KeSPA players go up against THE BEST GSL players? It makes zero sense if they wouldn't wanna lose the hype.
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Not like they could qualify and none of them deserve seeds anyway.
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On August 23 2012 21:59 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:57 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 16:45 Qwyn wrote:
No it doesn't really, b/c the lack of KeSPA players just leaves the GSL as it has always been, lol. But when they are allowed to play it's going to be fucking awesome. No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior. Use your brain. All Kespa has is their players, who have enormous expectations. Why the fuck would Kespa even risk losing the hype around its players if they thought they needed 1 more week or 1 more year?? Use your brain. How does that contradict what I said?
You're saying Kespa not allowing it's players fucks up the GSL because some of the best players won't participate.
I'm saying Kespa players aren't ready, despite kicking ass at WCS I'm sure everyone will agree the GSL players played like shit.
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On August 23 2012 21:54 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:51 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 21:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:19 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:17 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:
[quote]
KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them. Then why not allow the players to participate in more tournaments? Bad business sense? Growing the whole scene is apparently a bad idea. They seem to want to own the small chunk there currently is instead of building a much bigger chunk. I don't think it is bad business sense. I think Kespa recognises it is in a unique position of power. They own the famous players that can make SC2 a success in Korea, and they have the contacts and infrastructure for television. GOM would die because the best non-Kespa players will want to join them for fame and wealth. If they are able to make this plan work, they will once again have a monopoly over esports in Korea. KeSPA in SC2 can be a great thing, but if they decide what the big name players can and can't do, that will be bad news for almost everyone. The key words there make your post a bit odd. "The international scene would decline." The international scene is bigger than the Korean scene and will be INSTRUMENTAL if SC2 is to continue moving forward, making more money etc etc. If Kespa doesnt care about the international scene just as much as the Korean one then they are fools. lol, you do know who the main sponsors of Kespa's teams are, right? I am sure the korean scene for them is a LOT more important than the foreign scene. Would they like to grow in the foreign scene as well? Sure. But Korean scene will always come first. Look at something like Premier League in soccer in England. They have a big international audience and their teams travel all over the world in the OFF SEASON. Do you think they would travel during the season to other countries to play exhibitions? No. I think we need to take a step back and not just look at it through the eyes of a foreign fan. You need to widen your thinking. If Kespa teams get international exposure they can get international sponsors which means more money for them. Bad idea right? IF KeSPA teams get international exposure without losing their credibility in Korean scene, then yeah it's all dandy for them. But they can't risk losing the support of companies that were backing them for many years through highs and lows just for a CHANCE at getting some new sponsors. On top of that, how many major sponsors do any non-KeSPA teams have? Do you really think trading a Samsung sponsorship for Razer would be a good business move, never mind whatever loyalty they might have or whatever? Well. I am boycotting Samsung as of now, then.
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On August 23 2012 21:56 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:51 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 21:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:19 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:17 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:
[quote]
KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them. Then why not allow the players to participate in more tournaments? Bad business sense? Growing the whole scene is apparently a bad idea. They seem to want to own the small chunk there currently is instead of building a much bigger chunk. I don't think it is bad business sense. I think Kespa recognises it is in a unique position of power. They own the famous players that can make SC2 a success in Korea, and they have the contacts and infrastructure for television. GOM would die because the best non-Kespa players will want to join them for fame and wealth. If they are able to make this plan work, they will once again have a monopoly over esports in Korea. KeSPA in SC2 can be a great thing, but if they decide what the big name players can and can't do, that will be bad news for almost everyone. The key words there make your post a bit odd. "The international scene would decline." The international scene is bigger than the Korean scene and will be INSTRUMENTAL if SC2 is to continue moving forward, making more money etc etc. If Kespa doesnt care about the international scene just as much as the Korean one then they are fools. lol, you do know who the main sponsors of Kespa's teams are, right? I am sure the korean scene for them is a LOT more important than the foreign scene. Would they like to grow in the foreign scene as well? Sure. But Korean scene will always come first. Look at something like Premier League in soccer in England. They have a big international audience and their teams travel all over the world in the OFF SEASON. Do you think they would travel during the season to other countries to play exhibitions? No. I think we need to take a step back and not just look at it through the eyes of a foreign fan. You need to widen your thinking. If Kespa teams get international exposure they can get international sponsors which means more money for them. Bad idea right? It is you who need to widen your thinking. Like I said, they would LIKE to grow in the foreign scene. BUT the Korean scene is much more important. And international sponsors would probably only be able pay them a fraction of the current korean sponsors. Of course, more money is better, but the priority is still to those who pay the MOST. Like I said, why don't we see Premier League teams play in the States, Japan during the season? Surely, they would get more international sponsors and thus more money. Bad idea right?
The EPL does a lot to increase its exposure internationally, playing in different countries isn't a requirement to get foreign people involved add to that that it's massively unpractical to have a competition run all over the world. The whole football and Starcraft analogy is pretty bad anyway since both sports are structured way differently.
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On August 23 2012 22:02 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:54 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:51 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 21:36 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:30 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:19 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 21:17 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:
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They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them. Then why not allow the players to participate in more tournaments? Bad business sense? Growing the whole scene is apparently a bad idea. They seem to want to own the small chunk there currently is instead of building a much bigger chunk. I don't think it is bad business sense. I think Kespa recognises it is in a unique position of power. They own the famous players that can make SC2 a success in Korea, and they have the contacts and infrastructure for television. GOM would die because the best non-Kespa players will want to join them for fame and wealth. If they are able to make this plan work, they will once again have a monopoly over esports in Korea. KeSPA in SC2 can be a great thing, but if they decide what the big name players can and can't do, that will be bad news for almost everyone. The key words there make your post a bit odd. "The international scene would decline." The international scene is bigger than the Korean scene and will be INSTRUMENTAL if SC2 is to continue moving forward, making more money etc etc. If Kespa doesnt care about the international scene just as much as the Korean one then they are fools. lol, you do know who the main sponsors of Kespa's teams are, right? I am sure the korean scene for them is a LOT more important than the foreign scene. Would they like to grow in the foreign scene as well? Sure. But Korean scene will always come first. Look at something like Premier League in soccer in England. They have a big international audience and their teams travel all over the world in the OFF SEASON. Do you think they would travel during the season to other countries to play exhibitions? No. I think we need to take a step back and not just look at it through the eyes of a foreign fan. You need to widen your thinking. If Kespa teams get international exposure they can get international sponsors which means more money for them. Bad idea right? IF KeSPA teams get international exposure without losing their credibility in Korean scene, then yeah it's all dandy for them. But they can't risk losing the support of companies that were backing them for many years through highs and lows just for a CHANCE at getting some new sponsors. On top of that, how many major sponsors do any non-KeSPA teams have? Do you really think trading a Samsung sponsorship for Razer would be a good business move, never mind whatever loyalty they might have or whatever? Well. I am boycotting Samsung as of now, then.
Maybe you should write them an email about that and tell them they should either have Samsung Khan pull out of KeSPA or you will stop buying their products. Just look at Orb and EG or Destiny and Quantic, it worked great there, why wouldn't it again.
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On August 23 2012 22:00 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:57 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 16:45 Qwyn wrote:
No it doesn't really, b/c the lack of KeSPA players just leaves the GSL as it has always been, lol. But when they are allowed to play it's going to be fucking awesome. No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior. Use your brain. All Kespa has is their players, who have enormous expectations. Why the fuck would Kespa even risk losing the hype around its players if they thought they needed 1 more week or 1 more year?? Then why is there a dual tournament in which the BEST KeSPA players go up against THE BEST GSL players? It makes zero sense if they wouldn't wanna lose the hype.
That's something they had to give up in the transition. Every league open to every player but if you feel your own player isn't ready you can not let them play.
Besides the stance has been that GSL players are much better at SC2 at this point in time.
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EPT
