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On August 23 2012 20:58 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:55 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:
[quote]
team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc.
attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid.
tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:
[quote]
Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we". You might wanna read what he fought for because it includes paying players for even showing thier faces on tv. What a nice way of dodging anything I said. This ends it for me. Start making sense, bring an intelligent argument and maybe don't say "we fought hard" when really you didn't have anything to do with it. KeSPA is hurting eSports. First time I said it, but it's true. Figure of speech idiot. We as in the BW pro scene.
You're not part of the BW pro scene, no matter how much you watched competitive BW. Stop being delusional.
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On August 23 2012 21:10 naastyOne wrote:
The good thing? If Korean esport scene shits up, the foreign will get a boost, eliminating the huge competition for tournaments prise money, and we will get more exposure to Europe, instead of Korea.
The bad thing? We will not see BW stars, 90% of foreigner audience doesn`t care about anyways.
If the Korean scene shits up, I'll stop watching SC2 altogether.
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Kespa what are you even doing.
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On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing.
They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them.
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On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing?
lol you don't understand monopoly dude. It doesn't matter who built what.
Btw if Kespa had been in charge of SC2 and had done as they seem to be doing then the SC2 scene would be WAY smaller. Gom had an open practice and helped build the foreign scene when they could.
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On August 23 2012 21:15 WArped wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:10 naastyOne wrote:
The good thing? If Korean esport scene shits up, the foreign will get a boost, eliminating the huge competition for tournaments prise money, and we will get more exposure to Europe, instead of Korea.
The bad thing? We will not see BW stars, 90% of foreigner audience doesn`t care about anyways. If the Korean scene shits up, I'll stop watching SC2 altogether. Frankly, I feel the same way. Probably watch fighting games or something, that is not polluted by KeSPA.
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On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them.
Then why not allow the players to participate in more tournaments?
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On August 23 2012 21:17 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them. Then why not allow the players to participate in more tournaments?
Bad business sense? Growing the whole scene is apparently a bad idea. They seem to want to own the small chunk there currently is instead of building a much bigger chunk.
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On August 23 2012 21:09 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:50 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:48 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 20:42 imMUTAble787 wrote:
Maybe someone could clue me in, but what exactly have the KeSPA players accomplished in SC2 that warrants any sort of appearance fee ? This. As of now, there's not a single reason kespa or kespa players should receive any more money than regular Code A participants. It would be unfair to non-kespa Code A players if Gom did so. Yea, let's ignore the fact that Gom will get a lot more subscriptions if Kespa players were in the GSL or that their ratings would be higher than any other "Code A participant" could make them. Code A is a tournament. Prizes should be distributed on a scale of tournament placement, not on a scale of popularity. If including Kespa players will add to Gom's viewership, this should reflect in the tournament prizes, not in any direct payment to popular players/team/whatever Kespa is (in other words, more popularity=prizes go up, not more popularity=popularity gets rewarded with direct payment). If Idra (or any popular foreigner) got seeded into Code A, do you think it would be fair for him to receive more money from Gom than the Code S player who placed 4th (for example)? Kespa is exercising control over their players to, I believe, wipe out Gom in the coming months/year. Exercising control over their players is horrible for us viewers because we want to see everyone playing together. We want all Gom players playing in the Kespa tournament and we want all Kespa players playing in the Gom tournament, not this manipulative bullshit.
Will you stop saying "we"?
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On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing.
They CREATED this monopoly, by being miles and leagues ahead of any other attempt at running of an e-sports event. They built up all the infrastructure, helped with team organization, kept things like player trades etc civil. They are basically everything any organized sports scene needs, and what SC2 lacks. On a side note, I'm pretty sure the term 'monopoly' isn't even applicable, just like FIFA or UEFA or whatever isn't exactly a monopoly on football.
Also, to say that they are 'trying to preserve their monopoly' is pretty damn stupid based on this one statement alone. It's crystal clear that their players are still behind the curve in SC2, so it makes no sense to have them play more games like that.
Anyway it's pretty obvious that everyone in this thread has their own opinion that they are sticking to regardless of the arguments, so it's kind of pointless to say anything further.
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On August 23 2012 20:52 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:45 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:17 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 19:52 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 19:06 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 19:04 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 18:59 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 18:55 Talin wrote:
That seems like a really dodgy press release with a dodgy tone. It's almost as if GOM is intentionally trying to stir up anger/pressure at Kespa. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.
As for kespa making the decision, people need to understand that this is perfectly normal. Most importantly, a Kespa decision means that it's a joint team decision.
While I'm sure that there are individual players who would like to compete in the GSL, their time and effort playing Starcraft is committed entirely to their teams. And these are not western teams that are more like proxy sponsors than anything else - there is a fixed structure in how the players train, how much they train and what they train for. They don't get to just do whatever they feel like with their time.
In a nutshell, the teams decide what they want to get involved in (which was the case here). The actual players and coaching staff are only members of the team, they're not individual entities. So what you are saying is because already 32 players of all the teams together participate in the OSL, the other remaining players do not get to participate in any participate in any individual league at all? Sounds legit. All irony aside, whoever made the decision does not make the decision better for the players. I have NO idea what you're saying you're thinking I'm saying as that sentence doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. -_- The remaining players spend their time preparing for Proleague and being practice partners for players who are in the OSL, then preparing for the next qualifiers etc. There is plenty for them to do with their time, if that was your concern. I just think that it is disgusting that their teams prohibit them from participating in an individual league. If they don't want to participate, then they don't have to. But at least allow the players who want to participate to do what they want. These teams function like teams. Players can't just go play whatever tournament they feel like, because by doing that, they would be spending TIME preparing for and playing in that tournament. The TIME that they're being PAID to spend differently - they're being paid to be team members and train and play for their team. That is their job. They don't get to do whatever they want on their job during work hours, nobody does. There is nothing disgusting about that, it's perfectly natural, and it's how actual sports teams function everywhere. Everywhere. The problem here is that a lot of people are applying the western esports "team" logic to these teams and are then confounded by how the Kespa teams don't fit into that same frame. But these organizations are fundamentally different in every single way. Kespa teams are sports teams. Western teams (and GOM teams in the last year and a half) are merely marketing companies and (relative to players) some weird cross between an agency and a sponsor. A player's job on a western team is to bring exposure to the team and its sponsors. A player's job on a Kespa team is to listen to his coaches, follow the training regimen and prepare for games he's told to prepare for. Some teams have a more loose structure than the others, but obviously no team will let their players do whatever they want and play in any league they want and still pay them salaries. No, I do find it disgusting if a team prohibits a player from participating in an individual event, just because he is a practise partner of somebody who participates another individual event. I have no problem with listening to his coaches, following the training regimen and prepare for the games he's told to prepare for, as long as the players have games to prepare for. But what happens now is that the coaches sacrifice the potential individual career of some players just so that they can concentrate on improving another player. In my opinion, a coach should care for all players on his team equally and not pull something like that. Besides, it's not as if all players of a team suddenly qualify and there are no training partners left. If the Kespa teams are as big as I heard they are, with A-team and B-team, there will always be enough training partners left. There are always games to prepare for. There is still Proleague which will be the priority for most teams that make the playoffs. Also don't forget that these players still have to work hard on transitioning to SC2 and catching up with the strategies, metagame, figuring out the matchups, etc. These players are used to having a lot of "free" training time in general. You're almost certainly never going to see a scenario where a Kespa player lives on MC or Huk's schedule (fly to a different tournament every weekend, play GSL in between kind of thing). And it's pretty normal for team members to work for their teammates in the individual leagues once they're eliminated themselves. The more and the higher quality players you have to work with you, the better. This doesn't mean that the coaches don't care about all their players, it just means that they are utilizing team resources wisely, while at the same time trying to develop the players to be the best they can be. Taking time to compete in GSL doesn't seem to contribute much to either cause (at this point). The players themselves know what being on a pro team entails and I'm sure it feels perfectly normal and natural to them. If not, they can always leave, but somehow I doubt that will be happening a lot. They know that when it comes to training and skill level, Kespa teams are the best (and only) place to be. Hm, and I might be wrong with the following, but I thought the amount of players who get screen time in Proleague is not that big, not now after Kespa introduced the rule of "play bw now, play sc2 later, and vice versa". Anyways, I want to stress out again that I have no problem with team members working for their teammates in individual leages once they are eliminated or if they failed to qualify.
Like in individual leagues, players who don't get screen time still have to work with players that do, except PL is even more important to the teams than a player's individual league performance is. The time requirements are probably even greater when it comes to preparing the PL match roster.
As for the other thing, it's still an issue with scheduling. The decision Kespa teams have is either to let ALL their players attempt to qualify, or make a decision to simply not participate at all. If they allowed every player to qualify for Code A, then there's a good chance that a very significant number of players would qualify, and that just ain't optimal (least of all during the playoff and OSL season).
Kespa teams simply aren't as individualistic as we're used to in SC2. Even the star players have to sacrifice their individual league prep time to prepare for Proleague matches. Fantasy himself was temporarily demoted to B team last season (or the one before) after underwhelming Proleague performance and losing to Where, and he's been in the finals of last 3 OSLs.
These teams and players just function like that, it's the atmosphere that breeds excellence and it's what makes them strong and what will make them strong in SC2 as well. Sooner or later all teams will have to start functioning like that if they want to keep up and remain competitive. Judging by a couple of Boxer's passing remarks about the atmosphere in SlayerS recently and the players' attitude, that isn't going to be a pleasant transition for many.
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So no KeSPA players in MLG, no KeSPA players in GSL... I guess nothing changed at all.
Also it looks like KeSPA sees GOM as opponent and not a partner. That is really sad thing. As Mvp said instead of building the korean scene, they will fight between each other.
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On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them.
Now, Kespa can't run a monopoly because not only does Blizzard protect these type of situations with contracts and license, but GOM also currently entertain the best SC2 players in the world. So why the shitstorm?
Oh right, it's because everyone realizes that you need Kespa players to grow Starcraft 2 in Korea cause GOM can't do that.
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The way I understood it, Kespa teams withdrewn from the GSL because of conflicting schedules. Maybe something to do with Proleague.
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On August 23 2012 21:23 Pr0wler wrote:
So no KeSPA players in MLG, no KeSPA players in GSL... I guess nothing changed at all.
Also it looks like KeSPA sees GOM as opponent and not a partner. That is really sad thing. As Mvp said instead of building the korean scene, they will fight between each other.
There are no Kespa players in MLG because MLG and SPL are scheduled to take place at the same time and it is the last week of the season with playoff spots on the line for 6 of the 8 teams.
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I will withhold judgement for the moment..
But Kespa has a track record of not playing nice.
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On August 23 2012 21:23 seansye wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:16 rasers wrote:On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They had monopoly in BW cause the rest sucks. compared 2 them. Now, Kespa can't run a monopoly because not only does Blizzard protect these type of situations with contracts and license, but GOM also currently entertain the best SC2 players in the world. So why the shitstorm? Oh right, it's because everyone realizes that you need Kespa players to grow Starcraft 2 in Korea cause GOM can't do that.
And everyone realizes that you need ALL players to actually grow the scene world wide. Kespa fans sure seem fascinated with Korea.
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On August 23 2012 21:21 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:09 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 20:50 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:48 Sbrubbles wrote:On August 23 2012 20:42 imMUTAble787 wrote:
Maybe someone could clue me in, but what exactly have the KeSPA players accomplished in SC2 that warrants any sort of appearance fee ? This. As of now, there's not a single reason kespa or kespa players should receive any more money than regular Code A participants. It would be unfair to non-kespa Code A players if Gom did so. Yea, let's ignore the fact that Gom will get a lot more subscriptions if Kespa players were in the GSL or that their ratings would be higher than any other "Code A participant" could make them. Code A is a tournament. Prizes should be distributed on a scale of tournament placement, not on a scale of popularity. If including Kespa players will add to Gom's viewership, this should reflect in the tournament prizes, not in any direct payment to popular players/team/whatever Kespa is (in other words, more popularity=prizes go up, not more popularity=popularity gets rewarded with direct payment). If Idra (or any popular foreigner) got seeded into Code A, do you think it would be fair for him to receive more money from Gom than the Code S player who placed 4th (for example)? Kespa is exercising control over their players to, I believe, wipe out Gom in the coming months/year. Exercising control over their players is horrible for us viewers because we want to see everyone playing together. We want all Gom players playing in the Kespa tournament and we want all Kespa players playing in the Gom tournament, not this manipulative bullshit. Will you stop saying "we"?
I think most SC2 fans would agree with him. It is the people who are here that don't like SC2 that apparently want leagues to die out and cannibalize eachother instead of growing.
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Don't know why people are hating on this decision. To KeSPA teams, Proleague >>>>>> GSL and I'm sure sponsors had a say in this, also.
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On August 23 2012 21:21 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 21:13 Crushinator wrote:On August 23 2012 21:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 21:07 Daray wrote:On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
BW over 10 years history while being on TV and SC2 2 years and only being streamed. KeSPA runs a monopoly while GOM doesn't so there's really no competition, in that you are right. KeSPA didn't "run a monopoly" - they built EVERYTHING from grounds up and did something no one else managed to do, before them nor after them. Considering the success of KeSPA, you'd think someone would go and replicate their success with SC2 - but nobody even really tried, either for the lack of effort, or the lack of interest in it. Regardless of the reasons, KeSPA are the ones with the experience and savvy to make something like that happen. Why is it a bad thing? They did run a monopoly in BW, did they not? They had complete control of the factors needed to make BW tournaments work. Namely the players, and eliminated all the competition by making access to them impossible. It seems they are trying to do the same again, and I think that would be a very bad thing. They CREATED this monopoly, by being miles and leagues ahead of any other attempt at running of an e-sports event. They built up all the infrastructure, helped with team organization, kept things like player trades etc civil. They are basically everything any organized sports scene needs, and what SC2 lacks. On a side note, I'm pretty sure the term 'monopoly' isn't even applicable, just like FIFA or UEFA or whatever isn't exactly a monopoly on football. Also, to say that they are 'trying to preserve their monopoly' is pretty damn stupid based on this one statement alone. It's crystal clear that their players are still behind the curve in SC2, so it makes no sense to have them play more games like that. Anyway it's pretty obvious that everyone in this thread has their own opinion that they are sticking to regardless of the arguments, so it's kind of pointless to say anything further.
KeSPA didn't create BW scene. BW scene created KeSPA as it grew because it needed an organization to legitimize progaming licence. After the scene established itself, major companied jumped in and created KeSPA 2.0, which is what we have today.
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