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Austria24422 Posts
On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:
[quote]
Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon.
Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we".
Whatever. I see the point you're making but that doesn't make it any less of a dick move. Because I'm pretty sure GSL players won't receive appearance fees for playing in OSL.
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On August 23 2012 20:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for.
If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we".
You might wanna read what he fought for because it includes paying players for even showing thier faces on tv.
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On August 23 2012 20:50 ChoiSulli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? Maybe its the NBA but its the NBA with replacement players. KESPA has the most talented RTS players and they also broadcast on TV with OGN. Everyone can see how GOM is getting shafted in this but this is business. Unless they merge their companies or come up with some kind of revenue sharing scheme they will always be competitors. Also while most of us dont like KESPA, we will still side with KESPA, its like having a family member thats a dick to everyone but we are still going to have his back. Thats how KESPA is to us BW fans and there is a lot of those in Korea. So while maybe foreigners are upset, I think the majority of people in Korea that arent exclusive SC2 fans are happy with this power play as am I. I can see its making a lot of SC2 fans upset because KESPA is coming in and basically trying to replace GOM. You guys have every right to be upset, we were to when SC2 came and replaced BW.
Not even a good comparison dude. SC2 did not try to push BW out. Blizzard didn't make the game so that BW could die. Funny how you side with a company who treats you the viewer like crap over one who caters to people who watch them. You could be hoping for both leagues to do well and SC2 to flourish because of that but you hope for it to die? If Kespa gets their way SC2 will suffer.
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All I'm worried about is the acceptance of foreigners in whatever the most prestigious Korean league will be and those Koreans from that league competing in foreign tournaments.
Basically what I'm saying is that I don't really care what happens as long as the scene stays global, foreigners go to Korea, Koreans go to the West, etc.
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On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:
[quote]
Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. In case you missed it completely yes even for the fees.
LOL you can't even read and reply to what is said now? I am glad "you" did all this fighting! Fight on! Keep up the good work.
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On August 23 2012 20:55 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:
This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison.
[quote]
BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees.
Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we". You might wanna read what he fought for because it includes paying players for even showing thier faces on tv. Well, I wish that come up and fight vs KeSPA again.
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I find it find it hilarious that people say KeSPA mistreat people then think GOM doens't have to pay for appearance/upkeep fees that KeSPA has to.
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On August 23 2012 20:48 zazone wrote:
whats up with these butthurt sc2 fans, why do you care about Kespa players so much ? Weren't you saying that they are no match for the great GSL players ? Then it's better for GSL, all the best players are in there.
Sc2 fans are fans of SC2. We want what is best for EVERYONE. Not just for one money hungry company out to screw over the company who has done a ton for the scene. Kespa and Gom getting along is best for the scene and when the Kespa players do catch up it will be much more exciting if they can coexist.
If one league does well and gets more fans the other league benefits too. That is what Kespa is missing.
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On August 23 2012 20:56 achan1058 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:55 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:
[quote]
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:
[quote]
Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we". You might wanna read what he fought for because it includes paying players for even showing thier faces on tv. Well, I wish that come up and fight vs KeSPA again.
Things aren't perfect but thats not the point. GOM has to pay as much as KeSPA else they don't have the right to complain.
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Austria24422 Posts
On August 23 2012 20:55 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:
This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison.
[quote]
BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees.
Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we". You might wanna read what he fought for because it includes paying players for even showing thier faces on tv.
What a nice way of dodging anything I said.
This ends it for me. Start making sense, bring an intelligent argument and maybe don't say "we fought hard" when really you didn't have anything to do with it. Go watch LoL, THE KING OF ESPORTS!
KeSPA is hurting eSports. First time I said it, but it's true.
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On August 23 2012 20:55 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:50 ChoiSulli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? Maybe its the NBA but its the NBA with replacement players. KESPA has the most talented RTS players and they also broadcast on TV with OGN. Everyone can see how GOM is getting shafted in this but this is business. Unless they merge their companies or come up with some kind of revenue sharing scheme they will always be competitors. Also while most of us dont like KESPA, we will still side with KESPA, its like having a family member thats a dick to everyone but we are still going to have his back. Thats how KESPA is to us BW fans and there is a lot of those in Korea. So while maybe foreigners are upset, I think the majority of people in Korea that arent exclusive SC2 fans are happy with this power play as am I. I can see its making a lot of SC2 fans upset because KESPA is coming in and basically trying to replace GOM. You guys have every right to be upset, we were to when SC2 came and replaced BW. Not even a good comparison dude. SC2 did not try to push BW out. Blizzard didn't make the game so that BW could die. Funny how you side with a company who treats you the viewer like crap over one who caters to people who watch them. You could be hoping for both leagues to do well and SC2 to flourish because of that but you hope for it to die? If Kespa gets their way SC2 will suffer.
240p stream isnt catering ppl
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On August 23 2012 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:55 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:
[quote]
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:
[quote]
Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we". You might wanna read what he fought for because it includes paying players for even showing thier faces on tv. What a nice way of dodging anything I said. This ends it for me. Start making sense, bring an intelligent argument and maybe don't say "we fought hard" when really you didn't have anything to do with it. KeSPA is hurting eSports. First time I said it, but it's true.
Figure of speech idiot. We as in the BW pro scene.
User was temp banned for this post.
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France9034 Posts
On August 23 2012 20:55 Thorakh wrote:
All I'm worried about is the acceptance of foreigners in whatever the most prestigious Korean league will be and those Koreans from that league competing in foreign tournaments.
Basically what I'm saying is that I don't really care what happens as long as the scene stays global, foreigners go to Korea, Koreans go to the West, etc.
I too want that it remains a "not Korean only" scene. Though I don't want either that foreigners get, say, seeded "just so that there's foreigners in these tournaments/leagues". At least, I'm fine with the Koreans taking even every single tournament (and it's not the case btw) in the West, the better player should win anyway.
It must be relevant.
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On August 23 2012 20:47 nenshoua wrote:
Yeah, kespa is playing hard ball..and gom looks to be in an impotent position..they have no control of "gom players", whereas kespa has full control of theirs..therefore, gom looks kinda screwed...idk, as a neutral party, i am just worried that kespa does not care about the foreign market, whereas gom does (even if its mostly cause of their own benefit), as that seems the most relevant difference between the two.
Gom are not angels, they jumped on sc2 really quickly as it was an opportunity..sure, it was a risk, but they are businessmen, and they made a business decision..their heart does not beat for sc2 necessarily..sure, they sent tastosis out of korea to cast stuff, but how much is that their merit and how much is it tastosis' ? All it takes is a good pitch from tastosis about expanding the foreign market and some hard ball about contracts..i mean tastosis probably made a crapton of money with foreign tournaments..well deserved, too..specially artosis.. but yeah..how many times have you heard tasteless say " we work a little show, gsl..do you know it ? the most prestigious starcraft 2 league" ? a lot..
You can only judge gom by where they had power over us in their hands, and what they gave us when they didn't have to..which is a 240p stream with horrible bitrate..hell, they hosted wcs korea and despite being a blizzard event, it was largely pay per view..and finally, when they put up a 480p stream (probably blizz bugging), it was horrible bitrate..kinda like saying yea yea ok we agreed to 480 in contract..but hey..bitrate..is not in there ..so, just saying, competition might not be the worst thing to happen to gsl..there's not necessarily more kindness to gsl than kespa, maybe just less of a strangle hold on their teams and players..idk, maybe it's a cultural thing and that's how they approach business over there..like it or not, if they have control of everything and you want to watch sc2, you have to watch them and pay them..
GOM are no angels indeed. The thing they pulled with MLG, the WCS stream quality, and some other stuff have upset me. But in this particular case it does seem like GOM has reached out a hand to work side by side with Kespa. They are probably doing so because of business motives, but its also the best thing to do for the sc2 scene.
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It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
At the end of the day, KeSPA know that the foreign market and external events are a huge opportunity for them, they have said so time and time again, and there really is no reason to question that. They are doing things their own way, in a fashion that some might not like - but there is no denying that it's KeSPA who created the most successful teams, the most talented players, and the most incredible games of Starcraft we have ever seen. For all the KeSPA anti-fans, there's no denying that current SC2 superstars were raised by KeSPA, and it's quite likely that it will be KeSPA players who will surpass them.
You can hate KeSPA all you want, but the fact is it's them who have created the most spectacular viewer experiences to date, and it's a little short-sighted to call them out like this just because they make a decision you disagree with (even though that decision actually makes perfect sense and you're just calling them out because OMG EVIL bandwagon).
Btw, do any of you seriously believe that IPL, MLG, Dreamhack, GOM or any other e-sports entity out there is doing what they do for their 'love of e-sports'? Please. They are all businesses, and they are in it for their own money, nothing else. At least KeSPA is directly related to the teams they nurture, and their success is directly correlated with the success of these teams. MLG couldn't care less about any of the players or teams that appear there, they'd ditch SC2 entirely as soon as it stopped being profitable, whereas KeSPA actually has a vested interest in keeping the scene and their teams alive.
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On August 23 2012 20:58 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:55 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:
[quote]
team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc.
attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid.
tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:
[quote]
Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we". You might wanna read what he fought for because it includes paying players for even showing thier faces on tv. What a nice way of dodging anything I said. This ends it for me. Start making sense, bring an intelligent argument and maybe don't say "we fought hard" when really you didn't have anything to do with it. KeSPA is hurting eSports. First time I said it, but it's true. Figure of speech idiot. We as in the BW pro scene.
You are not a pro. I think you may need help.
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On August 23 2012 21:01 Salazarz wrote:
It really boggles my mind how everyone keeps attacking KeSPA for being this evil corporation out to make money and destroy the scene with their atrocities. They are literally the most successful e-sports association ever created; they are the ones who made e-sports on TV (even if just in one country), and massive live e-sports events a norm. Starcraft 2 had nearly 3 years without their 'evil' and with plenty of opportunities to draw on their experiences before KeSPA was allowed to step in - and what do you see? There isn't a single team or organization that is anywhere remotely as influential or well-structured as the KeSPA leagues are. IF it comes down to a business competition between KeSPA and GOM and GOM ends up losing it, they have no one but themselves to blame - even though I don't believe that's what is happening.
At the end of the day, KeSPA know that the foreign market and external events are a huge opportunity for them, they have said so time and time again, and there really is no reason to question that. They are doing things their own way, in a fashion that some might not like - but there is no denying that it's KeSPA who created the most successful teams, the most talented players, and the most incredible games of Starcraft we have ever seen. For all the KeSPA anti-fans, there's no denying that current SC2 superstars were raised by KeSPA, and it's quite likely that it will be KeSPA players who will surpass them.
You can hate KeSPA all you want, but the fact is it's them who have created the most spectacular viewer experiences to date, and it's a little short-sighted to call them out like this just because they make a decision you disagree with (even though that decision actually makes perfect sense and you're just calling them out because OMG EVIL bandwagon).
Btw, do any of you seriously believe that IPL, MLG, Dreamhack, GOM or any other e-sports entity out there is doing what they do for their 'love of e-sports'? Please. They are all businesses, and they are in it for their own money, nothing else. At least KeSPA is directly related to the teams they nurture, and their success is directly correlated with the success of these teams. MLG couldn't care less about any of the players or teams that appear there, they'd ditch SC2 entirely as soon as it stopped being profitable, whereas KeSPA actually has a vested interest in keeping the scene and their teams alive. You can say the same about Microsoft. It did not changed the fact that they killed Netscape.
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Austria24422 Posts
On August 23 2012 20:58 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:55 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:54 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 23 2012 20:53 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:
[quote]
team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc.
attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid.
tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:
[quote]
Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero! Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. Oh so Boxer did... and not you. You might wanna be careful about using "we". You might wanna read what he fought for because it includes paying players for even showing thier faces on tv. What a nice way of dodging anything I said. This ends it for me. Start making sense, bring an intelligent argument and maybe don't say "we fought hard" when really you didn't have anything to do with it. KeSPA is hurting eSports. First time I said it, but it's true. Figure of speech idiot. We as in the BW pro scene.
Reply. To. Arguments.
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It's getting kinda gross in here. I hope the mods bring out the banhoses soon 
I was hoping the KeSPA players would show in GSL before HoTS hits the league, since that would be two different events to hype up. Now it's looking like they might occur concurrently (or not at all).
So far I've really enjoyed watching the KeSPA players vs GSL players in the WCS. I hope that this can be extended to GSL in the near future.
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oh good news, no silly elephant for another gsl season, well not too much. As for kespa, well if you want to keep all the kespa fans from watching gsl, while gom fans watch their stuff, then this is a good move by them.
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EPT
