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On August 23 2012 20:42 D_K_night wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 18:05 eleaf wrote:
The reason is pretty simple actually.
HOTS will be released in next year, which is 'soon'. Well, it has a higher chance of real 'soon' instead of blizzard 'soon' according to latest information.
When HOTS is live, KeSPA players will have more 'equal' chance with GSL players since the game strategy will go through a huge revolution. In this revolution, KeSPA players may catch the level of GSL players very fast.
Currently KeSPA players is good, they can win games against GSL players. But in real GSL season battle, they have little chance to make it to code S. Most will be eliminated by code A qualifier, some left will only past 1-2 round of code A at most. Remember the case when foreigners (idra, huk, naniwa, thorzain) win a lot of games against GSL players in foreign tournaments, after coming to the GSL studio for a real GSL season, they hardly win any game. This is the brutal part of GSL. Players are just so focused and so prepared in real season, they are so good.
There is only 1 GSL season left for this year. KeSPA want to delay as much as possible in WOL tournaments and maybe this is the last WOL GSL tourment left. Without participation, most ppl (Korean ppl mainly) may have a high chance still believe KeSPA players are shining stars and superior to GSL players.
Basically, what KeSPA need is delay the participation using any kind of excuse until the HOTS tournament is live. Trying to keep their players marketing value. Cant blame them for doing so. But it's really a dick move and hurts gomtv a lot. Also I believe there's another reason at hand as well. F or WCS, all the KeSPA players were eliminated which is not a good thing in the eyes of fans. If this didn't happen, and WCS Korea ended up being represented by a KeSPA player, I think that things would have been different. I could be wrong but I think it's also a case of losing a bit of face, hence they pull out, giving more time for the KeSPA players to equalize the skill gap and not repeat this scenario.
You realize that that did not happen right? Three of the 10 spots for WCS Asia went to Kespa players and two of them ( by.sun and roro ) are still alive in the last stages of the tournament.
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On August 23 2012 20:43 Michaels wrote:
competition is healthy step up your game GOM and stop QQ
This isn't competition on quality. If Kespa wanted to make OSL the only game in town by making the casting and studio and prize money and so forth so much better than GSL, everyone would be cheering them on. This is standard monopolistic business games.
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On August 23 2012 20:42 imMUTAble787 wrote:
Maybe someone could clue me in, but what exactly have the KeSPA players accomplished in SC2 that warrants any sort of appearance fee ?
They are extremely popular and already are heavy competition for the "Gom" top dogs. Strictly from a business point of view this is the only way for Kespa to profit from this.
If they give in their whole business model is sort of in question which they built during the SC1 time and now naturally want to carry over to SC2.
Rather bad for the fans(and potentially gom) and good for Kespa. Let's wait and see what it is daddy blizzard has got to say about this.
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On August 23 2012 20:43 Michaels wrote:
competition is healthy step up your game GOM and stop QQ
They want competition, KeSPA don't.
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On August 23 2012 20:42 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:39 ramask2 wrote:
The whole point is that Kespa is trying to down-grade GSL to an 'amateur' league, while making itself the 'premiere' league. Shrewd business move made with no viewer interest in mind. That's why people are pissed off. Personally I'm just worry that the English casting quality is going to decrease. its important to note that no one is, or should be, against kespa trying to make themself the premier league. If they come out with better viewing experience, better prizes and what not while maintaining a good relationship with GOM and not backstabbing and breaking contracts thats good.
I agree completely. Again, as a viewer, I mainly just want to be entertained. That's why I hope OSL maintain the good English casting quality that GSL has.
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On August 23 2012 20:43 Ragnarork wrote:
I'm a bit disappointed as a fan (though I don't pretend to know the very low-level implications of all of this), and especially because we do see GOM players in the OSL....
Why not have Kespa players in GSL then... ?
Because KeSPA owns everything and are taking advantage of it and the players can't do anything especially now that they can't even leave teams (though they probably wouldn't anyway but still). On the other hand GOM doesn't own the players, the teams do and they obviously want to participate in as many tournaments as they can. GOM apparently gave up the exclusive rights to sc2 a year early so that sc2 and esports would move forward in Korea and KeSPA is shitting on them big time (AGAIN!)
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Yeah, kespa is playing hard ball..and gom looks to be in an impotent position..they have no control of "gom players", whereas kespa has full control of theirs..therefore, gom looks kinda screwed...idk, as a neutral party, i am just worried that kespa does not care about the foreign market, whereas gom does (even if its mostly cause of their own benefit), as that seems the most relevant difference between the two.
Gom are not angels, they jumped on sc2 really quickly as it was an opportunity..sure, it was a risk, but they are businessmen, and they made a business decision..their heart does not beat for sc2 necessarily..sure, they sent tastosis out of korea to cast stuff, but how much is that their merit and how much is it tastosis' ? All it takes is a good pitch from tastosis about expanding the foreign market and some hard ball about contracts..i mean tastosis probably made a crapton of money with foreign tournaments..well deserved, too..specially artosis.. but yeah..how many times have you heard tasteless say " we work a little show, gsl..do you know it ? the most prestigious starcraft 2 league" ? a lot..
You can only judge gom by where they had power over us in their hands, and what they gave us when they didn't have to..which is a 240p stream with horrible bitrate..hell, they hosted wcs korea and despite being a blizzard event, it was largely pay per view..and finally, when they put up a 480p stream (probably blizz bugging), it was horrible bitrate..kinda like saying yea yea ok we agreed to 480 in contract..but hey..bitrate..is not in there ..so, just saying, competition might not be the worst thing to happen to gsl..there's not necessarily more kindness to gsl than kespa, maybe just less of a strangle hold on their teams and players..idk, maybe it's a cultural thing and that's how they approach business over there..like it or not, if they have control of everything and you want to watch sc2, you have to watch them and pay them..
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whats up with these butthurt sc2 fans, why do you care about Kespa players so much ? Weren't you saying that they are no match for the great GSL players ? Then it's better for GSL, all the best players are in there.
User was warned for this post
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On August 23 2012 20:42 imMUTAble787 wrote:
Maybe someone could clue me in, but what exactly have the KeSPA players accomplished in SC2 that warrants any sort of appearance fee ?
This. As of now, there's not a single reason kespa or kespa players should receive any more money than regular Code A participants. It would be unfair to non-kespa Code A players if Gom did so.
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On August 23 2012 20:42 D_K_night wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 18:05 eleaf wrote:
The reason is pretty simple actually.
HOTS will be released in next year, which is 'soon'. Well, it has a higher chance of real 'soon' instead of blizzard 'soon' according to latest information.
When HOTS is live, KeSPA players will have more 'equal' chance with GSL players since the game strategy will go through a huge revolution. In this revolution, KeSPA players may catch the level of GSL players very fast.
Currently KeSPA players is good, they can win games against GSL players. But in real GSL season battle, they have little chance to make it to code S. Most will be eliminated by code A qualifier, some left will only past 1-2 round of code A at most. Remember the case when foreigners (idra, huk, naniwa, thorzain) win a lot of games against GSL players in foreign tournaments, after coming to the GSL studio for a real GSL season, they hardly win any game. This is the brutal part of GSL. Players are just so focused and so prepared in real season, they are so good.
There is only 1 GSL season left for this year. KeSPA want to delay as much as possible in WOL tournaments and maybe this is the last WOL GSL tourment left. Without participation, most ppl (Korean ppl mainly) may have a high chance still believe KeSPA players are shining stars and superior to GSL players.
Basically, what KeSPA need is delay the participation using any kind of excuse until the HOTS tournament is live. Trying to keep their players marketing value. Cant blame them for doing so. But it's really a dick move and hurts gomtv a lot. Also I believe there's another reason at hand as well. For WCS, all the KeSPA players were eliminated which is not a good thing in the eyes of fans. If this didn't happen, and WCS Korea ended up being represented by a KeSPA player, I think that things would have been different. I could be wrong but I think it's also a case of losing a bit of face, hence they pull out, giving more time for the KeSPA players to equalize the skill gap and not repeat this scenario.
Players from kespa teams make out three of ten who qualified for WCS Asia. Of the remaining 6 player who are still alive in the tournament two of them are from kespa and still has a shot at winning it. I'm sure that is better than anyone realistic expected going into this.
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On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right?
Maybe its the NBA but its the NBA with replacement players. KESPA has the most talented RTS players and they also broadcast on TV with OGN. Everyone can see how GOM is getting shafted in this but this is business. Unless they merge their companies or come up with some kind of revenue sharing scheme they will always be competitors. Also while most of us dont like KESPA, we will still side with KESPA, its like having a family member thats a dick to everyone but we are still going to have his back. Thats how KESPA is to us BW fans and there is a lot of those in Korea. So while maybe foreigners are upset, I think the majority of people in Korea that arent exclusive SC2 fans are happy with this power play as am I. I can see its making a lot of SC2 fans upset because KESPA is coming in and basically trying to replace GOM. You guys have every right to be upset, we were to when SC2 came and replaced BW.
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On August 23 2012 20:48 zazone wrote:
whats up with these butthurt sc2 fans, why do you care about Kespa players so much ? Weren't you saying that they are no match for the great GSL players ? Then it's better for GSL, all the best players are in there. The same reason why people want to watch foreigner vs Korean matches, even though foreigner for the most part is no match.
On August 23 2012 20:50 ChoiSulli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? Maybe its the NBA but its the NBA with replacement players. KESPA has the most talented RTS players and they also broadcast on TV with OGN. Everyone can see how GOM is getting shafted in this but this is business. Unless they merge their companies or come up with some kind of revenue sharing scheme they will always be competitors. Also while most of us dont like KESPA, we will still side with KESPA, its like having a family member thats a dick to everyone but we are still going to have his back. Thats how KESPA is to us BW fans and there is a lot of those in Korea. So while maybe foreigners are upset, I think the majority of people in Korea that arent exclusive SC2 fans are happy with this power play as am I. I can see its making a lot of SC2 fans upset because KESPA is coming in and basically trying to replace GOM. You guys have every right to be upset, we were to when SC2 came and replaced BW. It's anti-competitive business move. I would be fine (sad, but fine) if KeSPA players destroys Gom players, or offers a bigger price pool/salary to attract new talent. I am not fine with them doing what MS was doing 10 years ago.
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On August 23 2012 20:48 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:42 imMUTAble787 wrote:
Maybe someone could clue me in, but what exactly have the KeSPA players accomplished in SC2 that warrants any sort of appearance fee ? This. As of now, there's not a single reason kespa or kespa players should receive any more money than regular Code A participants. It would be unfair to non-kespa Code A players if Gom did so.
Yea, let's ignore the fact that Gom will get a lot more subscriptions if Kespa players were in the GSL or that their ratings would be higher than any other "Code A participant" could make them.
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Austria24422 Posts
On August 23 2012 20:48 zazone wrote:
whats up with these butthurt sc2 fans, why do you care about Kespa players so much ? Weren't you saying that they are no match for the great GSL players ? Then it's better for GSL, all the best players are in there.
You fail to understand the point.
KeSPA is being a dick while GOM is cooperating. KeSPA is trying to get GSL players over to their leagues while keeping all their players to themselves. And also people now MUST watch KeSPA leagues to see BW aces play sc2.
It's so plainly obvious, I really wonder how people can't see it.
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On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not.
FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer, you know the guy they call THE FATHER OF ESPORTS? Boxer didn't get some token name. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys.
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On August 23 2012 20:47 nenshoua wrote:
Yeah, kespa is playing hard ball..and gom looks to be in an impotent position..they have no control of "gom players", whereas kespa has full control of theirs..therefore, gom looks kinda screwed...idk, as a neutral party, i am just worried that kespa does not care about the foreign market, whereas gom does (even if its mostly cause of their own benefit), as that seems the most relevant difference between the two.
Gom are not angels, they jumped on sc2 really quickly as it was an opportunity..sure, it was a risk, but they are businessmen, and they made a business decision..their heart does not beat for sc2 necessarily..sure, they sent tastosis out of korea to cast stuff, but how much is that their merit and how much is it tastosis' ? All it takes is a good pitch from tastosis about expanding the foreign market and some hard ball about contracts..i mean tastosis probably made a crapton of money with foreign tournaments..well deserved, too..specially artosis.. but yeah..how many times have you heard tasteless say " we work a little show, gsl..do you know it ? the most prestigious starcraft 2 league" ? a lot..
You can only judge gom by where they had power over us in their hands, and what they gave us when they didn't have to..which is a 240p stream with horrible bitrate..hell, they hosted wcs korea and despite being a blizzard event, it was largely pay per view..and finally, when they put up a 480p stream (probably blizz bugging), it was horrible bitrate..kinda like saying yea yea ok we agreed to 480 in contract..but hey..bitrate..is not in there ..so, just saying, competition might not be the worst thing to happen to gsl..there's not necessarily more kindness to gsl than kespa, maybe just less of a strangle hold on their teams and players..idk, maybe it's a cultural thing and that's how they approach business over there..like it or not, if they have control of everything and you want to watch sc2, you have to watch them and pay them..
Gom has done a lot of good things for the SC2 scene. Very few things that they have done have been bad for non Koreans and they have catered to us a lot. Most people have a fairly decent opinion of Gom.
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On August 23 2012 20:45 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:17 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 19:52 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 19:06 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 19:04 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 18:59 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 18:55 Talin wrote:
That seems like a really dodgy press release with a dodgy tone. It's almost as if GOM is intentionally trying to stir up anger/pressure at Kespa. Oh wait, that's exactly what it is.
As for kespa making the decision, people need to understand that this is perfectly normal. Most importantly, a Kespa decision means that it's a joint team decision.
While I'm sure that there are individual players who would like to compete in the GSL, their time and effort playing Starcraft is committed entirely to their teams. And these are not western teams that are more like proxy sponsors than anything else - there is a fixed structure in how the players train, how much they train and what they train for. They don't get to just do whatever they feel like with their time.
In a nutshell, the teams decide what they want to get involved in (which was the case here). The actual players and coaching staff are only members of the team, they're not individual entities. So what you are saying is because already 32 players of all the teams together participate in the OSL, the other remaining players do not get to participate in any participate in any individual league at all? Sounds legit. All irony aside, whoever made the decision does not make the decision better for the players. I have NO idea what you're saying you're thinking I'm saying as that sentence doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. -_- The remaining players spend their time preparing for Proleague and being practice partners for players who are in the OSL, then preparing for the next qualifiers etc. There is plenty for them to do with their time, if that was your concern. I just think that it is disgusting that their teams prohibit them from participating in an individual league. If they don't want to participate, then they don't have to. But at least allow the players who want to participate to do what they want. These teams function like teams. Players can't just go play whatever tournament they feel like, because by doing that, they would be spending TIME preparing for and playing in that tournament. The TIME that they're being PAID to spend differently - they're being paid to be team members and train and play for their team. That is their job. They don't get to do whatever they want on their job during work hours, nobody does. There is nothing disgusting about that, it's perfectly natural, and it's how actual sports teams function everywhere. Everywhere. The problem here is that a lot of people are applying the western esports "team" logic to these teams and are then confounded by how the Kespa teams don't fit into that same frame. But these organizations are fundamentally different in every single way. Kespa teams are sports teams. Western teams (and GOM teams in the last year and a half) are merely marketing companies and (relative to players) some weird cross between an agency and a sponsor. A player's job on a western team is to bring exposure to the team and its sponsors. A player's job on a Kespa team is to listen to his coaches, follow the training regimen and prepare for games he's told to prepare for. Some teams have a more loose structure than the others, but obviously no team will let their players do whatever they want and play in any league they want and still pay them salaries. No, I do find it disgusting if a team prohibits a player from participating in an individual event, just because he is a practise partner of somebody who participates another individual event. I have no problem with listening to his coaches, following the training regimen and prepare for the games he's told to prepare for, as long as the players have games to prepare for. But what happens now is that the coaches sacrifice the potential individual career of some players just so that they can concentrate on improving another player. In my opinion, a coach should care for all players on his team equally and not pull something like that. Besides, it's not as if all players of a team suddenly qualify and there are no training partners left. If the Kespa teams are as big as I heard they are, with A-team and B-team, there will always be enough training partners left. There are always games to prepare for. There is still Proleague which will be the priority for most teams that make the playoffs. Also don't forget that these players still have to work hard on transitioning to SC2 and catching up with the strategies, metagame, figuring out the matchups, etc. These players are used to having a lot of "free" training time in general. You're almost certainly never going to see a scenario where a Kespa player lives on MC or Huk's schedule (fly to a different tournament every weekend, play GSL in between kind of thing). And it's pretty normal for team members to work for their teammates in the individual leagues once they're eliminated themselves. The more and the higher quality players you have to work with you, the better. This doesn't mean that the coaches don't care about all their players, it just means that they are utilizing team resources wisely, while at the same time trying to develop the players to be the best they can be. Taking time to compete in GSL doesn't seem to contribute much to either cause (at this point). The players themselves know what being on a pro team entails and I'm sure it feels perfectly normal and natural to them. If not, they can always leave, but somehow I doubt that will be happening a lot. They know that when it comes to training and skill level, Kespa teams are the best (and only) place to be.
Hm, and I might be wrong with the following, but I thought the amount of players who get screen time in Proleague is not that big, not now after Kespa introduced the rule of "play bw now, play sc2 later, and vice versa".
Anyways, I want to stress out again that I have no problem with team members working for their teammates in individual leages once they are eliminated or if they failed to qualify.
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On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:
[quote]
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys.
I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero!
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On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero!
Read Boxer's history. He fought for everyone... thats why he is an icon. In case you missed it completely yes even for the fees.
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On August 23 2012 20:52 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 20:51 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:39 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:36 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:34 [thork] wrote:On August 23 2012 20:21 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:19 [thork] wrote:
do you remember last weeks kespa - gom agreement? i think kespa deceived gom.
kespa not playing fair as always. not caring about the game as always. kespa being kespa as always.
gom should cancel the agreement or file a lawsuit
Don't give me that weak sauce argument. Morally speaking PAY the PLAYERS some SALARY. team owners want their players compete in as many tournaments as possible. foreigner teams even pay for players flights, accomodation, etc. attending a tournament in korea does not cost a team much. kespa is not just the owner of all teams, but also the owner of the leagues broodcasting rights. your argument is invalid. tournaments don't pay for salaries, teams does. Western scene is different. KeSPA have thier own tournament to prioritise. On August 23 2012 20:34 Roggay wrote:On August 23 2012 20:32 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 20:25 TrainSamurai wrote:This is just ANOTHER CASE OF GOM wanting to make money off KeSPA player's image without paying jackshit in comparison. On August 23 2012 20:25 Dodgin wrote:On August 23 2012 20:23 TrainSamurai wrote:On August 23 2012 20:22 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
Er, they get paid for participating in GSL. Does that not count? Every single player in each GSL season gets paid. Every KeSPA player gets housing and food supplied. They don't always make it into the OSL but KeSPA still gives some pittance. GOM must pay ALL of them SOMETHING. GOM is just a tournament organizer though, it's not up to them to give players salary. That's what the teams are for. If you're talking about an appearance fee to play in GSL then that's a lot different than salary. Maybe Flash does deserve an appearance fee but as far as I know WCG never paid him to be in WCG and he did that willingly. BINGO. They all deserve a fee for even playing. We revolted under KeSPA to get those fees. Yea, I don't know why Gom expects Kespa players to play in their amateur league without compensation. That's like expecting Lebron James to make an appearance at a college practice for free. Except their "amateur" league is the equivalent of the NBA right now... right? How does that detract from the main point. Either give PAID KeSPA player an appearance fee or stop sulking. No because this is stupid. Why would they pay an appearance fee when they are already paying the players for being in code A/S... Beside, the fact that they are paying the players or not has absolutely nothing to do with this topic as this has nothing to do with KeSPA. It's up to the players to decide if its worth it or not. FYI KeSPA players get appearance fees. We fought hard for it under boxer. You can't just expect not to pay what KeSPA does and make money off it and rofl @ the PMs keep them coming fanboys. I'm sure you did a ton of "fighting" internet hero!
Please stop responding to him :/
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EPT
