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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10361 Posts
its pretty low DPS makes it seem like a zoning unit, maybe occasional harasser, and I guess a unit to help deal with BL/Infestor also i wonder if they considered making the warhound ability sorta like the odin's strike canon, so that there's timing + positioning involved (if a unit gets in the AOE then it gets shot by the missiles), but i guess they want the ability to really be just a 2nd attack but give the warhound an energy bar (does it have energy...?) | ||
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Eps
Canada240 Posts
On June 10 2012 01:46 Fig wrote: Well obviously you can't just compare it head to head, because no one in their right mind is gonna try using blink stalkers against warhounds anytime soon is HotS. That's what I was showing. A Warhound is truly on the same scale as a marauder, it's just better all around and costs more to offset that. And you never fight with stalkers against marauders. In fact the goal in any PvT is to make as few stalkers as possible. And with the addition of the Warhound, that rule will still hold. And your argument of what comes out of what building gets ridiculous when you actually compare fairly. Do you know how much all of the buildings and research to have those choices costs? Toss doesn't automatically start with all of their tech. Kind of like how Every race has to tech to their units. All the buildings and resources? It's 1 Cyber Core and you have access to 3, Twilight Council and 1 more Tech structure and that's as far as most Toss goes. Each new factory requires 100 gas, 25 for a Tech Lab that most units require and an Armoury for some. Not to mention the difficulty in Tech switching for Terrans. Toss production is streamlined mainly through 1 building that gives them all of their core units. 1 150 Mineral no Gas building at that. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: oh wow, just noticed the tempest doesn't do splash anymore :D nice! So it isn't a flying colossi with 22 range its pretty low DPS makes it seem like a zoning unit, maybe occasional harasser, and I guess a unit to help deal with BL/Infestor also i wonder if they considered making the warhound ability sorta like the odin's strike canon, so that there's timing + positioning involved (if a unit gets in the AOE then it gets shot by the missiles), but i guess they want the ability to really be just a 2nd attack but give the warhound an energy bar (does it have energy...?) I like the idea a lot. It is a high cost, low impact unit that is more about long term planning. Rather than a flying, "I kill all the flying stuff now" unit. I am not sure where it fits into the match up, but I am sure it will go somewhere. | ||
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Eps
Canada240 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:09 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: oh wow, just noticed the tempest doesn't do splash anymore :D nice! So it isn't a flying colossi with 22 range its pretty low DPS makes it seem like a zoning unit, maybe occasional harasser, and I guess a unit to help deal with BL/Infestor also i wonder if they considered making the warhound ability sorta like the odin's strike canon, so that there's timing + positioning involved (if a unit gets in the AOE then it gets shot by the missiles), but i guess they want the ability to really be just a 2nd attack but give the warhound an energy bar (does it have energy...?) I would hope it doesn't have energy. There's enough Terran units with Energy already, making HT's that much more dangerous. Ghost, Medivac, Thor, BattleCruisers, Ravens. Compare Protoss: HT, Mothership, Sentry. Zerg: Queen, Infestor, Overseer. Terran doesn't need a 6th. Even with the expansion adding new energy based units for the other races. | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:16 Eps wrote: Kind of like how Every race has to tech to their units. All the buildings and resources? It's 1 Cyber Core and you have access to 3, Twilight Council and 1 more Tech structure and that's as far as most Toss goes. Each new factory requires 100 gas, 25 for a Tech Lab that most units require and an Armoury for some. Not to mention the difficulty in Tech switching for Terrans. Toss production is streamlined mainly through 1 building that gives them all of their core units. 1 150 Mineral no Gas building at that. I was pointing to the fact that you derailed the discussion with that comment. We were talking about the current stats of the Warhound, and how they literally make it the mech mirror-image of the marauder. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:02 Chicken Chaser wrote: Warhound = Terran Immortal? Or are they best for anti-tank, anti-colossus (siege units)? From what I've understood, they serve two main purposes: 1) Breaking siege lines in early TvT when the tank numbers aren't too high 2) As a general anti-protoss unit for mech, since most protoss units are mechanical they will be able to do sick DPS in most situations. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:02 Chicken Chaser wrote: Warhound = Terran Immortal? Or are they best for anti-tank, anti-colossus (siege units)? It seems like they're more super-marauders than anything else. I think the basic idea is that they're a strong, easy to mass factory unit to support the mass tank that's a staple of mech play. | ||
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FabiDarkSide
Germany14 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10361 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:21 Eps wrote: I would hope it doesn't have energy. There's enough Terran units with Energy already, making HT's that much more dangerous. Ghost, Medivac, Thor, BattleCruisers, Ravens. Compare Protoss: HT, Mothership, Sentry. Zerg: Queen, Infestor, Overseer. Terran doesn't need a 6th. Even with the expansion adding new energy based units for the other races. Yeah you're right, i would hope it doesn't have energy. Hm, what is protoss' answer to warhound/hellion? They could add colossi but you can just add vikings. I guess they want them to use the tempest (and possibly carrier, and maybe even phoenix/voidray) to force vikings from terran? But wouldn't that be boring? You just mass viking vs any protoss air unit. I guess in BW you massed goliaths vs carrier, but I think they should try (if they haven't) to make it more dynamic than just having 1 unit as an answer for all of protoss's stargate units. I wonder how you can get the vikings to the tempest? Wouldn't it be hard to make maps where tempest can't abuse too many areas? Or maybe the tempest is that siege unit vs mech, forcing mech to reposition -- not necessarily defensively, but perhaps offensively to force the protoss to reposition his tempests. Also, carriers beat vikings in supply right? Maybe they will actually need to take the carrier out because it may be too hard to deal with them with just vikings + turrets. Maybe the BC's new speed will help them deal with Carriers even more though? (chase them down) Too bad you can't use redline AND yamato haha, imagine a BC flying to get into position to yamato a tempest. That shit could be epic to see. | ||
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Eps
Canada240 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:23 Fig wrote: I was pointing to the fact that you derailed the discussion with that comment. We were talking about the current stats of the Warhound, and how they literally make it the mech mirror-image of the marauder. My response was towards you and other people comparing Warhounds with Stalkers. This is just like the Roach vs Stalker debate all over again. All of these units serve different roles, and you can't compare them without looking at production (since I have to spell it out, mobility and warp-ins), infrastructure and upgrade differences. It's not as simple as Warhounds > Stalkers as most posters seem to be making it out to be. As for comparing it with the Marauder, that point I agree on and posted about earlier. On June 10 2012 00:46 Eps wrote: As it stands, it's more like a Mech Marauder. It can't look up. Which means 3/5 of the Factory units can't shoot up. Factory AA is still dependent on Thors and we all know how great those are. On June 10 2012 03:32 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Yeah you're right, i would hope it doesn't have energy. Hm, what is protoss' answer to warhound/hellion? They could add colossi but you can just add vikings. I guess they want them to use the tempest (and possibly carrier, and maybe even phoenix/voidray) to force vikings from terran? But wouldn't that be boring? You just mass viking vs any protoss air unit. I guess in BW you massed goliaths vs carrier, but I think they should try (if they haven't) to make it more dynamic than just having 1 unit as an answer for all of protoss's stargate units. I wonder how you can get the vikings to the tempest? Wouldn't it be hard to make maps where tempest can't abuse too many areas? Or maybe the tempest is that siege unit vs mech, forcing mech to reposition -- not necessarily defensively, but perhaps offensively to force the protoss to reposition his tempests. Also, carriers beat vikings in supply right? Maybe they will actually need to take the carrier out because it may be too hard to deal with them with just vikings + turrets. Maybe the BC's new speed will help them deal with Carriers even more though? (chase them down) Too bad you can't use redline AND yamato haha, imagine a BC flying to get into position to yamato a tempest. That shit could be epic to see. I forgot, Banshees as well. Terran already has 6 energy using units. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10361 Posts
Anyways, seems like the design in WoL made terran more diverse (which is good! thus allowing them to transition easier, without making their army weaker -- think tanks and medivacs on bio in TvZ, think ghosts and vikings in bio TvP, think banshees and vikings with mech TvZ, etc.) There's no pure anything anymore, except for the early/game like in TvZ where you can stick with bio (though in the midgame you'll need medivacs) | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On June 10 2012 03:21 Eps wrote: I would hope it doesn't have energy. There's enough Terran units with Energy already, making HT's that much more dangerous. Ghost, Medivac, Thor, BattleCruisers, Ravens. Compare Protoss: HT, Mothership, Sentry. Zerg: Queen, Infestor, Overseer. Terran doesn't need a 6th. Even with the expansion adding new energy based units for the other races. Too late. You forgot banshee  | ||
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Mr.Pyro
Denmark959 Posts
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CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr
544 Posts
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ObliviousNA
United States535 Posts
Also, zealot warp-in with a prism, mine attaches to warping zealot, put the prism back in transport mode to cancel the warp-in. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
Or perhaps Vipers will be used to abduct them and pull the swarm hosts into the waiting locusts. Can you abduct a burrowed unit? | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:09 Kmatt wrote: I can't wait to see how this will change ZvZ. Siege lines of swarm hosts are going to turn it into a MOBA. Or perhaps Vipers will be used to abduct them and pull the swarm hosts into the waiting locusts. Can you abduct a burrowed unit? I'd reckon the Ultralisk burrow charge will have a thing or two to say about Swarm hosts. Also, neural parasiting the Swarm hosts right before they spawn the locusts, pimpest play in ZvZ. ZvZ will be really interesting because of the Vipers and their -range cloud. That will force the zerg into less ranged units and more into melee and flying units instead. Lategame is going to rely on Vipers a lot because it will be the most positional unit the Zerg has because it can both create good positions and punish bad positioning by the enemy. The consume spell is going to be so much fun, proxying an extractor to get energy near the battlefield and just pull stuff out. I will enjoy pulling scvs away while they are building something and just watch that building never complete because the terran never found out. | ||
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ultimfier
Canada29 Posts
Assuming terran goes mech wouldnt VOID RAYS become a pretty damn good option. I mean chargelots will still have to be created en mass due to them being the mineral dump, but using your gas dump on mobile void rays could cause problems for terran. Forcing terran to create thors (meh) or marines (eating away heliion numbers) should really help the chargelots. tl;dr couldnt zealot+voidray+oracle be a good unit comp against warhound/hellion? | ||
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Kmatt
United States1019 Posts
On June 10 2012 04:28 ultimfier wrote: Just a crazy theorycraft (obviously) about PvT. Been reading some posts about how hellion/warhound is looking to be strong against toss. Assuming terran goes mech wouldnt VOID RAYS become a pretty damn good option. I mean chargelots will still have to be created en mass due to them being the mineral dump, but using your gas dump on mobile void rays could cause problems for terran. Forcing terran to create thors (meh) or marines (eating away heliion numbers) should really help the chargelots. tl;dr couldnt zealot+voidray+oracle be a good unit comp against warhound/hellion? Maybe the screenshots on the box art will be what actual games look like. | ||
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