|
On June 10 2012 06:00 sorrowptoss wrote:
I was just watching MLG with Day[9] that was casting a HOTS game. And the first thing I was thinking was WTF.
So many things in the gameplay is stupid. The main thing I really REALLY hate about HOTS from what I saw (TvZ) was that everything is too powerful and everything happens too quickly. There is never time to react.
When a Viper pulls a sieged tank, you can't do anything about it.
When a Widow Mine attaches itself to a unit, there's nothing you can do.
When an Ultralisk does that burrow charge thing, there's nothing you can do either.
I think that RTS without reaction time is not RTS.
There are so many spells in BW also that leaves no time for reasction :S.
When Viper pulls a siege thank, there's nothing u can do. Right, i agree.
When a widow mine attach itself, u ahve to split your army up to avoid AoE dmg => you can do
Ultralisk burrow charge, well you can do things like split up your army to avoid the cleave, etc.
|
On June 10 2012 06:05 dragonblade369 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 06:00 sorrowptoss wrote:
I was just watching MLG with Day[9] that was casting a HOTS game. And the first thing I was thinking was WTF.
So many things in the gameplay is stupid. The main thing I really REALLY hate about HOTS from what I saw (TvZ) was that everything is too powerful and everything happens too quickly. There is never time to react.
When a Viper pulls a sieged tank, you can't do anything about it.
When a Widow Mine attaches itself to a unit, there's nothing you can do.
When an Ultralisk does that burrow charge thing, there's nothing you can do either.
I think that RTS without reaction time is not RTS. There are so many spells in BW also that leaves no time for reasction :S. When Viper pulls a siege thank, there's nothing u can do. Right, i agree. When a widow mine attach itself, u ahve to split your army up to avoid AoE dmg => you can do Ultralisk burrow charge, well you can do things like split up your army to avoid the cleave, etc.
That though only works with Biological units splitting Mech units is a bad idea if the Ultra is already at close range ^^ They move way to slow to split them up later
|
Can anyone confirm that the Reaper is 7 range?
I've also read conflicting reports on Reaper speed. Some say its gone, some say that only the factory requirement is gone.
|
Reaper Speed is Gone
7 range is not confirmed im not sure about that
|
I'm curious about mothership core's Energize
Can i use this to Nexus for extra chronoboost?
|
Holy god, Terran is shaping up to be freaking TERRIFYING.
Protoss air... y'know I'd really like a shorter range air attack that does splash, because as of right now I still just see a Zerg making Corruptors and continuing to demolish Protoss air/Colossus play, and I'm not sure the Tempest's range will TRULY be enough to fend off the Corruptor air dominance.
But as a whole I'm still really unsure, everything seems balanced to some degree, but noone has really gone out and tried to really make the broken unit compositions and strategies so /shrug.
In the end, I'd rather see like 15 - 17 range ground attack on the Tempest and 10 range air attack with some splash.
|
am i the only one finding the 3 supply for oracle alot?
|
On June 10 2012 06:17 Khalleb wrote:
am i the only one finding the 3 supply for oracle alot?
You aren't going to have that many of them, so I think it is ok.
|
It doesnt matter if Reaper is 7 range i think.As we can see his Build time has been cahnged once again to 40 from 45.Same as it was in the BETA of WOL,but no D-Charge vs Buildings.This may make him more viable as opening and we can defend our base or harras Zerg with them much better.If not so quik,he will be like no stimmed marine with an autoheal skill.I think it will be usefull.
Energize will improve Nexus and make them recover all its energy.
|
You can't take WoL 'Metagame' and add in a single unit. Currently in WoL infestor/brood is the go to strat because its so fucking strong. But stephano style play works as well. Infestor/brood isn't the only style, just the best 'lategame comp'.
The Stephano build isn't a style, it's a build. More specifically it is a build that maxes on roaches as fast as possible hoping to score an early kill/crippling blow. It is not a dependable style to employ in a matchup.
A style would be something like roach/hydra with drops, muta/ling or ultralisk/infestor/ling. But the only style that reliably works is infestor/brood lord, any other composition can't compete with lategame protoss. That is why i could see this becoming a problem, since the Tempest seems to counter it pretty damn well while at the same time not having a natural nemesis.
Your adding protoss Tempest in while forgetting all the good zerg stuff added. Deathballs shouldn't kill zerg anymore, at least not Protoss deathballs, they have alot of options to split the opponent up/tear him apart. As long as the maps are good the MU will be great. Collosus wont be an issue anymore, and to be honest with you im thinking Tempest is going to be good for Defense, or for Containment. It wont be a unit that makes or breaks a composition, its too slow/etc.
I didn't forget anything? I mentioned Abduct, it has 7 range, Tempest has 22, there is absolutely no way abduct is going to function as a good counter to Tempest. I suppose i should mention the fact that the Blinding Cloud only affect biological units. Means it won't be useful vs Protoss.
Tempest is slow? You know what else is slow? Brood Lords are the slowest fighting unit in the game, and judging by that video the Tempests are faster.
|
7 range reaper is so broken in tvt. you can kite marines and the only early game counter is a marauder
|
On June 10 2012 06:17 Zambrah wrote:
Holy god, Terran is shaping up to be freaking TERRIFYING.
Protoss air... y'know I'd really like a shorter range air attack that does splash, because as of right now I still just see a Zerg making Corruptors and continuing to demolish Protoss air/Colossus play, and I'm not sure the Tempest's range will TRULY be enough to fend off the Corruptor air dominance.
But as a whole I'm still really unsure, everything seems balanced to some degree, but noone has really gone out and tried to really make the broken unit compositions and strategies so /shrug.
In the end, I'd rather see like 15 - 17 range ground attack on the Tempest and 10 range air attack with some splash.
Blink Stalkers work pretty well vs Corruptors.Protoss dont need antiair Ship vs them,because Corruptprs range is so short(6) and Zerg need to get pretty close to P deathball to try snipe Colossi.Carriers make you lose lot of supply,so you cant protect them with stalkers or Voids.Tempest are useless for me.No role for them,and real no good damage vs nothing of Z army
|
Seems my idea is being accepted here so i made a topic in blizzard forum:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5753735539#1
- Raven
Seeker missile removed from the game.
new skill Widow mine they can target air and ground units and burrowed into the ground.
Why this change? widow mine will be the new seeker missile but with map control when burrow the mine. only will be invisible when burrowed and will be detonate more quick than is now.
Why this will not be Overpower? well look seeker missile right now but give them the option to burrow like spider mines.
-Thor
PDD is now a thor skill with a new animation for the thors.
Why this change? now they can counter better magic box mutalisks.
Why this will not be strong? Thor are now countered by Vipers late game and now they can be infested easily.
|
On June 10 2012 06:24 PredY wrote:
7 range reaper is so broken in tvt. you can kite marines and the only early game counter is a marauder Yeah I'm worried about how the new units will change TvT. Marine tank is such a fun positional battle, I really hope that the battle hellion and warhound don't ruin that.
Plus yeah TvT is going to be reaper vs reaper early game lol. Which when I think of it sounds pretty cool actually.
|
On June 10 2012 05:59 Masvidal wrote:
Protoss really got shafted - Zerg and Terran both got quite a few new, very powerful units, and the Hydralisk is basically a new unit for Zerg because of the speed, while Protoss gets a flying caster and an overpriced single-target seige air unit. Even once everything is balanced out, I feel like P is going to be really stale and limited for options, what with all the new units the other races are getting. Things that really stick out in my mind: Widow Mines, Viper. These two units will need to be SERIOUSLY overhauled in no subtle way before they become anything but completely overpowered. And I can't believe that Abduct is able to be used on massive units. If you can use abduct on Colossus, you might as well allow Phoenix to use Graviton Beam on Thors and Ultralisks. I am aware that all of this will be balanced/changed, but I don't see how they can change things like Widow Mine, Viper, and Swarm Host to make them balanced without completely changing their function altogether. Swarm Host is basically a burrowed Broodlord. They need to make it so Widow Mines have like 20 hp or something, so that with detection they can be cleared out easily, because with the cheap cost and 200 damage, it's way, way too cost efficient.
The Tempest, I have to agree with the OP - it seems pretty useless. Yes, it has great range, but it's Fleet beacon tech, and costs 300/300, and can only hit one thing at a time. By the time one is out, Zerg has access to corruptors and Terran has access to Vikings, which basically makes it obsolete before it even comes out. It needs either a cost reduction or splash damage. I hope Blizzard knows what they are doing better than they did last time around - when WoL came out, it took 2 years and god knows how many patches before every single tournament stopped being TvT finals, and top 8 looking something like 5 Terrans, 3 Zergs, 0 Protoss.
You have to be kidding me.
Protoss got shafted? I think Protoss got the biggest buff of the 3 races! So much so, that I'm going to switch from Terran to Protoss as soon as HOTS comes out (though this obviously depends on the changes that happen between now and release.)
Sure, I can maybe see why you don't like the Tempest. It's going to be a very micro intensive, situation specific unit. However, it's certainly going to be more useful than the carrier, which was never worth the money for building it at all.
Other than the Tempest though, everything else Protoss just got is amazing. The mothership core is going to make FE in PvP 100% viable - try 4gating when I have a nexus that does 60 damage a shot! Or when I can just FF your units away almost unlimitlessly with sentries that keep on being recharged!
PvZ just got a huge buff... you mean I can move out against a Zerg player with an immortal/sentry push and, if it doesn't work, I can just recall before a million lings kill off my units for free? That's amazing!
In every matchup, the oracle is going to play a huge key part. Sure, it can harass with entomb, which is absolutely going to do damage. Think about recharging your oracle with mana from mothership core, then rushing across the map to completely shut down mining on both the nat and the main? And then return to your base, recharge, and cloak your 2 base timing push as you move out? Tell me that's not strong.
The one thing that many Protoss players will complain about now is that colos can be abducted, that zealots can be killed by battle hellions, that the death ball is going to be broken up. But if you realize what HOTS is doing here, you'll notice that Protoss can now be flexible and DOESN'T DEPEND ON the deathball anymore.
HOTS will change the game to be very very similar to BW - battles will be long and drawn out (as spellcasters/positional units/more defenders advantage have been added to every race, especially so to protoss), there will be many more micro intensive units (toss gets oracle+tempest here, which both are very effective but depend on micro) and as a result the deathball vs. deathball style play is going to fall out of style rapidly.
Due to this fact, the colossus will play a different role in this game. Don't stress too much about the colossus - you'll now have many more options for punishing your opponent than simply abusing the traditional a-move noob unit.
The only race that's going to get shafted here is Terran - and that's because the other two races were shafted in WoL. Mark my words, you're going to enjoy playing Protoss and Zerg a lot more in HOTS - so much in fact that I'm inclined to switch races in order to get the most out of the new game. I can't wait to play Toss in a few months :D
|
On June 10 2012 06:34 Solo Terran wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 06:24 PredY wrote:
7 range reaper is so broken in tvt. you can kite marines and the only early game counter is a marauder Yeah I'm worried about how the new units will change TvT. Marine tank is such a fun positional battle, I really hope that the battle hellion and warhound don't ruin that. Plus yeah TvT is going to be reaper vs reaper early game lol. Which when I think of it sounds pretty cool actually.
it might sound cool but.. forcing you to make techlab rax every tvt is not good. is 7 range confirmed? im worried if it is true
|
On June 10 2012 06:36 PredY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 06:34 Solo Terran wrote:On June 10 2012 06:24 PredY wrote:
7 range reaper is so broken in tvt. you can kite marines and the only early game counter is a marauder Yeah I'm worried about how the new units will change TvT. Marine tank is such a fun positional battle, I really hope that the battle hellion and warhound don't ruin that. Plus yeah TvT is going to be reaper vs reaper early game lol. Which when I think of it sounds pretty cool actually. it might sound cool but.. forcing you to make techlab rax every tvt is not good. is 7 range confirmed? im worried if it is true I just meant reaper vs reaper battles would be cool chasing eachother up and down cliffs. Not that it would necessarily a good thing.
|
Stargate play does not die to banshees.... Omg!
|
On June 10 2012 06:29 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 06:17 Zambrah wrote:
Holy god, Terran is shaping up to be freaking TERRIFYING.
Protoss air... y'know I'd really like a shorter range air attack that does splash, because as of right now I still just see a Zerg making Corruptors and continuing to demolish Protoss air/Colossus play, and I'm not sure the Tempest's range will TRULY be enough to fend off the Corruptor air dominance.
But as a whole I'm still really unsure, everything seems balanced to some degree, but noone has really gone out and tried to really make the broken unit compositions and strategies so /shrug.
In the end, I'd rather see like 15 - 17 range ground attack on the Tempest and 10 range air attack with some splash. Blink Stalkers work pretty well vs Corruptors.Protoss dont need antiair Ship vs them,because Corruptprs range is so short(6) and Zerg need to get pretty close to P deathball to try snipe Colossi.Carriers make you lose lot of supply,so you cant protect them with stalkers or Voids.Tempest are useless for me.No role for them,and real no good damage vs nothing of Z army
I don't think Blink Stalkers are going to function quite well enough to truly fend off Corruptors.
Versus the Tempest, I'm not worried about, they're WAAAY off and virtually unable to be attacked, but things like Colossus and any other air unit is probably totally and utterly boned. And that kind of sucks when every new unit the Protoss has is an air unit.
Maybe I'm underestimating the impact the Mothership Core will have, but as of right now I see the other races getting things that would seem to really smash Gateway units, and Zerg in particular seems to have a large plethora of answers to Protosses big high tech threats.
But again, I really don't know what to think as of right now, everything seems really topsy turvy and its incredibly easy to imagine someone going a unit comp thats just unstoppable in any of the races.
I'm just not really comfortable with how many of the Protoss high tier units are susceptible to the same unit.
|
On June 10 2012 06:35 CakeSauc3 wrote:
Other than the Tempest though, everything else Protoss just got is amazing. The mothership core is going to make FE in PvP 100% viable - try 4gating when I have a nexus that does 60 damage a shot! Or when I can just FF your units away almost unlimitlessly with sentries that keep on being recharged!
Good luck with FFE in pvp i bet 4 gate warp prism every game will beat that even with a mothership core. teleporting uses 25 energy so you might not be able to teleport and defend your main nexus.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
