EPTAnyway I still like mech+air.
TLPD Winrates May 2012 - Page 30
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Anyway I still like mech+air. | ||
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xParadoxi
United States78 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:38 Probe1 wrote: Fair enough to have your own opinion on that but qxc and Genius were both showing promise using reapers and carriers 7 months ago. Neither unit has been nerfed since then iirc. They aren't as easy as phoenix+void ray or just dropping 6 rax and pulling scvs but you know, they were shown that even in the pinnacle of SC2 competition to be viable. I guess anything could be "viable" but they are playing to win. The units flat out just arent as good as other options in the game. You can use them but you are going to be handicapping yourself if you do. There's a reason that the last time you saw them was 7 months ago. It isn't about easier vs harder. It's about good vs bad. Also mech is extremely immobile and you will be picked apart by good zerg players. Granted I haven't played sky terran much, but fungal is an easy answer to air units. | ||
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Arush
Canada80 Posts
And justm akes infestors too much of a good unit in all matchups and situations. | ||
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Catatonic
United States699 Posts
On June 07 2012 18:00 SolidMoose wrote: The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June. I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs. That buff was far from unnecessary -.- This terran whining really needs to stop. You guys dominated the scene for almost 2 years and now that things are more balanced all you do is cry about oh man its harder to know... no shit it's harder to win cause you guys had it easy. The buff was necessary for the sheer fact that now queens can't be kited for an infinite duration now. Before if you slipped with queen control your queen was in supremely dire straights though now its more balanced especially on the lower levels where it should be. This terran "omg queens so imba now cause we can infinatly kite" needs to quit happening. Neither race whined near as much as terran has since they've become more balanced (not even when terran was super imba did anyone whine this much). | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:48 Catatonic wrote: That buff was far from unnecessary -.- This terran whining really needs to stop. You guys dominated the scene for almost 2 years and now that things are more balanced all you do is cry about oh man its harder to know... no shit it's harder to win cause you guys had it easy. The buff was necessary for the sheer fact that now queens can't be kited for an infinite duration now. Before if you slipped with queen control your queen was in supremely dire straights though now its more balanced especially on the lower levels where it should be. This terran "omg queens so imba now cause we can infinatly kite" needs to quit happening. Neither race whined near as much as terran has since they've become more balanced (not even when terran was super imba did anyone whine this much). try taking a third at 5 minutes and see what the terran can do, saturate to 70 drones before units, and tech to hive at 11-12 minutes. Sacrifice overlords to make sure you know whats up. That is the result of queen range 3->5, but ofcourse only the high level zergs will truly take advantage of this. You are missing the bigger picture, its not the fact that hellions can't kite anymore, its not that hellions cannot deny creep anymore, it is that zerg gets a free VERY early third that catapults them so smoothly into the late game. | ||
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xParadoxi
United States78 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:48 Catatonic wrote: That buff was far from unnecessary -.- This terran whining really needs to stop. You guys dominated the scene for almost 2 years and now that things are more balanced all you do is cry about oh man its harder to know... no shit it's harder to win cause you guys had it easy. The buff was necessary for the sheer fact that now queens can't be kited for an infinite duration now. Before if you slipped with queen control your queen was in supremely dire straights though now its more balanced especially on the lower levels where it should be. This terran "omg queens so imba now cause we can infinatly kite" needs to quit happening. Neither race whined near as much as terran has since they've become more balanced (not even when terran was super imba did anyone whine this much). Things are more balanced now? Oh.. I wasnt aware. No one is "crying" people are having a discussion, and you come in and spout random bullshit. I think everyone can agree that terran has the hardest time trying to remax an army. So they need to put pressure on early to keep the other races from getting to the end game. With the patch, almost all terran early pressure is negated by queens. The fact is that TvZ was the most balanced match up in the game, and the queen range patch has skewed the balance toward the Zerg side. | ||
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iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:48 Catatonic wrote: That buff was far from unnecessary -.- This terran whining really needs to stop. You guys dominated the scene for almost 2 years and now that things are more balanced all you do is cry about oh man its harder to know... no shit it's harder to win cause you guys had it easy. The buff was necessary for the sheer fact that now queens can't be kited for an infinite duration now. Before if you slipped with queen control your queen was in supremely dire straights though now its more balanced especially on the lower levels where it should be. This terran "omg queens so imba now cause we can infinatly kite" needs to quit happening. Neither race whined near as much as terran has since they've become more balanced (not even when terran was super imba did anyone whine this much). How is 61:39 'more balanced'. And if anything I can rebuttal with Zergs are 9-0 in GSTL Right now. | ||
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Rhine
187 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:48 Catatonic wrote: That buff was far from unnecessary -.- This terran whining really needs to stop. You guys dominated the scene for almost 2 years and now that things are more balanced all you do is cry about oh man its harder to know... no shit it's harder to win cause you guys had it easy. The buff was necessary for the sheer fact that now queens can't be kited for an infinite duration now. Before if you slipped with queen control your queen was in supremely dire straights though now its more balanced especially on the lower levels where it should be. This terran "omg queens so imba now cause we can infinatly kite" needs to quit happening. Neither race whined near as much as terran has since they've become more balanced (not even when terran was super imba did anyone whine this much). Neither race? Really? Do terrans have a "sad zealot" post after gstl? Zergs have been complaining since the game started (for good reason, for the most part) to the point where "zerg tears" is a famous saying. I'm not saying there was no reason for protoss and zerg to whine before. But to say that terrans are complaining most... continuous all-ins from the best terran players in certain matchups (keeping the win rates up) and the reputation for overpoweredness meant that many were NOT complaining and that they have been generally dismissed. TvZ has been close to completely balanced for a long time now. Virtually all top level pros were satisfied with the matchup, especially after the Ghost nerf. The queen buff made all popular openings much weaker. Which pro zerg was complaining about queens being kited infinitely? None, because it wasn't a problem. There are other zerg counters to "kiting." Finally, the game shouldn't be balanced based on "turns." Well race X dominated for Y time, so race Z must dominate for the same amount of time! It has nothing to do with Terran, Protoss, or Zerg. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:47 xParadoxi wrote: I guess anything could be "viable" but they are playing to win. The units flat out just arent as good as other options in the game. You can use them but you are going to be handicapping yourself if you do. There's a reason that the last time you saw them was 7 months ago. It isn't about easier vs harder. It's about good vs bad. Also mech is extremely immobile and you will be picked apart by good zerg players. Granted I haven't played sky terran much, but fungal is an easy answer to air units. I'm referencing games where qxc and Genius won. Genius qxc (may be wrong game I'm 100% sure it was on XNC and 90% sure it was during qxc's all kill of IM in the GSTL. Day9 Daily #216 focusing on mass reaper vs protoss with qxc -I've actually had my fill for the day. I can only take so much after playing Zerg since release.. You know sometimes shit just sucks for you and you have to overcome it. Remember when everyone whined about infestor brood lord and zergs screamed GHOOOSTS USE EM THEY'RE GREAT! Yeah. | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On June 08 2012 02:01 Bippzy wrote: I don't know about you. Those are suggestions, but I'm not sure if the game would be starcraft anymore. Also the bolded sounds like politician speak to me almost. Words without substance, except near the end is a conjecture. On Topic: I'm not too worried about tvz. I feel like the buff to zerg was because terran had unlocked potential, that would be found out over the course of like 3 years if queens kept their old range. thats the same way I justified the warpgate nerf, and it looks to be a correct prediction. Everything else looks fine to me, really. The metagames feel like they haven't been changing too much lately, but it's probably because I just haven't been watching GSTL since I didn't get a ticket for this one. I'll be brought up to date when GSL starts next week. Everything looks fine... Really? Haha oh dear.. | ||
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xParadoxi
United States78 Posts
On June 08 2012 10:10 Probe1 wrote: I'm referencing games where qxc and Genius won. Genius qxc (may be wrong game I'm 100% sure it was on XNC and 90% sure it was during qxc's all kill of IM in the GSTL. Day9 Daily #216 focusing on mass reaper vs protoss with qxc -I've actually had my fill for the day. I can only take so much after playing Zerg since release.. You know sometimes shit just sucks for you and you have to overcome it. Remember when everyone whined about infestor brood lord and zergs screamed GHOOOSTS USE EM THEY'RE GREAT! Yeah. I'm not completely disagreeing with you, I think that they could be used successfully, but you have so many other better choices. Why use the units that aren't as good? | ||
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mazqo
Finland368 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
On June 08 2012 10:10 Probe1 wrote: I'm referencing games where qxc and Genius won. Genius qxc (may be wrong game I'm 100% sure it was on XNC and 90% sure it was during qxc's all kill of IM in the GSTL. Day9 Daily #216 focusing on mass reaper vs protoss with qxc -I've actually had my fill for the day. I can only take so much after playing Zerg since release.. You know sometimes shit just sucks for you and you have to overcome it. Remember when everyone whined about infestor brood lord and zergs screamed GHOOOSTS USE EM THEY'RE GREAT! Yeah. Those things are VERY situational. There's a reason why qxc doesn't go reapers all the time in his game and has written blogs talking about how late game TvP is Protoss favored. Just because they win in 1 game doesn't mean they're going to win all the time. And about carriers. Yes it's possible to win with it. But it's more likely you're just going to get destroyed by fungals and corruptors. (I don't have a problem with late game PvZ though). Another example of situational games is when Mvp used his BC strat against Squirtle in the GSL finals. The only reason he could pull it off was because the map favored it, allowing him to Planetary the entrance to 5 bases and then secure another 2 island bases. He probably wouldn't have had success on any other maps. Also, he lost the game. EDIT: Also with regards to balance whines, just because Terrans were winning all the time 1-2 years ago, doesn't mean that the game should make it imbalanced in their favor. It's a silly argument really. The object of balance patches is to find the right balance. Prior to the queen buff, TvZ was somewhat balanced and was actually an enjoyable match-up to watch. I'm not saying now that the match-up is unfavorable for the Terrans, but now everyone has to find new ways to play and we're in the phase of 1-2 months (probably longer) where we see a lot of really really bad games. The Queen buff was just unnecessary. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
I remember a post about 6 months back about how heavy patching would eventually imbalance all the matchups, seems like it's been surely heading that way. | ||
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MegaFonzie
Australia1084 Posts
ZvT is the only MU that feels weird atm, but I'm always on the side of 'let things play out' for these type of things. We'll see with the upcoming GSL how the matchup really is. Everything else seems decent to me, Immortal all ins are insanely good atm so hopefully zergs can work out an efficient way to counter them. I'm sure a lot of terrans still feel TvP is imbalanced but whatever, the statistics continue to suggest its a balanced matchup. | ||
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BoZiffer
United States1841 Posts
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jeffvip
211 Posts
On June 08 2012 11:18 MegaFonzie wrote: The OP is biased as hell :/ ZvT is the only MU that feels weird atm, but I'm always on the side of 'let things play out' for these type of things. We'll see with the upcoming GSL how the matchup really is. Everything else seems decent to me, Immortal all ins are insanely good atm so hopefully zergs can work out an efficient way to counter them. I'm sure a lot of terrans still feel TvP is imbalanced but whatever, the statistics continue to suggest its a balanced matchup. 1 more retarded toss player. The only things Terran complain is Protoss late game, not the winning %. Terran have the advantage & ability to win it before 15 min mark anyway. | ||
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