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TLPD Winrates May 2012 - Page 32

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Mentalizor
Profile Joined January 2011
Denmark1596 Posts
June 08 2012 10:05 GMT
#621
The TvZ is horrible. But I'm a the only one noticing PvZ not even once being in the favor of P? (I know how it is on the korean - but honestly 100 PvZ's is not a reliable source... it just isn't)
(yಠ,ಠ)y - Y U NO ALL IN? - rtsAlaran: " I somehow sit inside the bus.Hot_Bit giving me a massage"
mazqo
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland368 Posts
June 08 2012 10:07 GMT
#622
On June 08 2012 19:02 IMoperator wrote:
Good thing my friends and I have been playing League of Legends a lot more, don't want to deal with TvP or TvZ 'til something gets fixed.

They cant magically fix your lack of skill.
Mentalizor
Profile Joined January 2011
Denmark1596 Posts
June 08 2012 10:10 GMT
#623
On June 08 2012 09:58 iTzSnypah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 09:48 Catatonic wrote:
On June 07 2012 18:00 SolidMoose wrote:
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion


The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June.

I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs.

That buff was far from unnecessary -.- This terran whining really needs to stop. You guys dominated the scene for almost 2 years and now that things are more balanced all you do is cry about oh man its harder to know... no shit it's harder to win cause you guys had it easy. The buff was necessary for the sheer fact that now queens can't be kited for an infinite duration now. Before if you slipped with queen control your queen was in supremely dire straights though now its more balanced especially on the lower levels where it should be. This terran "omg queens so imba now cause we can infinatly kite" needs to quit happening. Neither race whined near as much as terran has since they've become more balanced (not even when terran was super imba did anyone whine this much).


How is 61:39 'more balanced'. And if anything I can rebuttal with Zergs are 9-0 in GSTL Right now.


Yeah... the only time we've seen zerg lose a single game... it was in ZvZ. But zerg sure seems more balanced
(yಠ,ಠ)y - Y U NO ALL IN? - rtsAlaran: " I somehow sit inside the bus.Hot_Bit giving me a massage"
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
June 08 2012 10:19 GMT
#624
On June 08 2012 19:10 Mentalizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 09:58 iTzSnypah wrote:
On June 08 2012 09:48 Catatonic wrote:
On June 07 2012 18:00 SolidMoose wrote:
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion


The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June.

I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs.

That buff was far from unnecessary -.- This terran whining really needs to stop. You guys dominated the scene for almost 2 years and now that things are more balanced all you do is cry about oh man its harder to know... no shit it's harder to win cause you guys had it easy. The buff was necessary for the sheer fact that now queens can't be kited for an infinite duration now. Before if you slipped with queen control your queen was in supremely dire straights though now its more balanced especially on the lower levels where it should be. This terran "omg queens so imba now cause we can infinatly kite" needs to quit happening. Neither race whined near as much as terran has since they've become more balanced (not even when terran was super imba did anyone whine this much).


How is 61:39 'more balanced'. And if anything I can rebuttal with Zergs are 9-0 in GSTL Right now.


Yeah... the only time we've seen zerg lose a single game... it was in ZvZ. But zerg sure seems more balanced



yonghwa actuallly managed to win a PvZ against Moon. so far his was the only time in this GSTL season a zerg lost a non-zvz. (We only had players like Polt, MMA and MVP trying to win a TvZ, so I think these scrubs are finally where they belong, right?)
But yeah, NOW the game is finally balanced
Dalavita
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1113 Posts
June 08 2012 10:22 GMT
#625
On June 08 2012 19:07 mazqo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 19:02 IMoperator wrote:
Good thing my friends and I have been playing League of Legends a lot more, don't want to deal with TvP or TvZ 'til something gets fixed.

They cant magically fix your lack of skill.


The queen buff was actually blizzard fixing gold level zergs lack of skill by giving them a super unit when they couldn't use the fully satisfactory one.
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
June 08 2012 10:25 GMT
#626
surprised its only 74%
i mean how did those couple of zergs actually manage to lose?
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-08 10:28:13
June 08 2012 10:27 GMT
#627
Sad to see that 2 years after release Blizzard is breaking winrate record with one of the matchups. This just goes to show that they are doing something wrong in terms of balance.

Why was the queen even buffed in the first place? I understand zerg needed a better scouting option hence the overlord speed early game but queen?
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
June 08 2012 10:36 GMT
#628
On June 08 2012 19:07 mazqo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 19:02 IMoperator wrote:
Good thing my friends and I have been playing League of Legends a lot more, don't want to deal with TvP or TvZ 'til something gets fixed.

They cant magically fix your lack of skill.

What are you talking about? I'm a masters terran player, I have been masters for 3 seasons now. My TvZ was never stellar, but it was always around 45%-50% wins. In my last 8 matches against zerg, I went 0-8. Sure, a lot of this is my fault, maybe I don't macro well enough or micro well enough, but I've never done this badly against zerg, and I haven't been doing anything different.
Gravesong
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States96 Posts
June 08 2012 10:42 GMT
#629
Does anyone know if the Prime vs ST games in the KSL were played pre or post-patch? MKP had an interesting build using fast upgrades for bio and mech that worked against STCurious I believe. Has anyone seen any other terrans take this heavy upgraded biomech build against other zerg with any success?
Limelights
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States219 Posts
June 08 2012 11:00 GMT
#630
Give it another month or two and if the winrates stay the same in ZvT, change something. We can't forget how the metagame can evolve and fix itself.
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
June 08 2012 11:15 GMT
#631
On June 08 2012 20:00 Limelights wrote:
Give it another month or two and if the winrates stay the same in ZvT, change something. We can't forget how the metagame can evolve and fix itself.


That doesn't address the underlying issue that they took a very balanced match-up and tossed it for what seems to be no reason other than for the sake of buffing zerg. Of COURSE the meta-game could shift, again, but why was it necessary for Blizzard to dip their hands into it in the first place? I really wish they'd stop with these drastic balance patches, at least until HotS.
Toadvine
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland2234 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-08 12:30:47
June 08 2012 12:28 GMT
#632
I kind of enjoy the Queen buff to be completely honest, since it brings the gamebreaking nature of Spawn Larvae into the spotlight. I enjoy the roach max in ZvP for a similar reason, and hope someone comes up with a completely undefendable version of it. Would be so funny to see David Kim balance himself out of that hole.

On June 08 2012 18:24 jeffvip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 18:00 MateShade wrote:
On June 08 2012 11:32 jeffvip wrote:
On June 08 2012 11:18 MegaFonzie wrote:
The OP is biased as hell :/

ZvT is the only MU that feels weird atm, but I'm always on the side of 'let things play out' for these type of things. We'll see with the upcoming GSL how the matchup really is.

Everything else seems decent to me, Immortal all ins are insanely good atm so hopefully zergs can work out an efficient way to counter them. I'm sure a lot of terrans still feel TvP is imbalanced but whatever, the statistics continue to suggest its a balanced matchup.


1 more retarded toss player. The only things Terran complain is Protoss late game, not the winning %. Terran have the advantage & ability to win it before 15 min mark anyway.

Don't call people retarded please


Sorry if I offended anybody but I just cannot find another words which are more suitable to use in this situation. This scenario have been explained so many times yet he still wanna post on that. I don't understand why so many Protoss player still wanna stress the winning % is about 50%. Is about the late game which bring fun to player and spectator, not the winning or losing matter.


Protoss players bring the winrates up, because the majority of Terran complaints about TvP lategame sound like the matchup is somehow grievously imbalanced and needs Terran buffs asap. A lot of them don't even think they have a midgame advantage, so if you take them seriously, Terran should never win games against Protoss. So it makes some sense to occasionally remind them that if they want an even lategame, they'd need to agree to an even mid/early game too. Since the matchup, as a whole, is indeed balanced, if stupid.

And on a different note, PvZ lategame is also quite difficult for Protosses currently, but you don't see them whining about Zerg everywhere.
"There are always some Eskimos ready to instruct the Congolese on how to cope with heat waves." - S.J.Lec
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
June 08 2012 12:34 GMT
#633
On June 08 2012 21:28 Toadvine wrote:
And on a different note, PvZ lategame is also quite difficult for Protosses currently, but you don't see them whining about Zerg everywhere.

u srs? korea has 57% pvz winrate and protoss whine about zerg is everywhere.
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Toadvine
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland2234 Posts
June 08 2012 12:40 GMT
#634
On June 08 2012 21:34 teddyoojo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 21:28 Toadvine wrote:
And on a different note, PvZ lategame is also quite difficult for Protosses currently, but you don't see them whining about Zerg everywhere.

u srs? korea has 57% pvz winrate and protoss whine about zerg is everywhere.


Yeah, and it was the other way around in April. I don't see the point anyway, since Protosses win a lot with 2 base all-ins or 3 base timing pushes before Broodlords are out, or by defending a roach max and then countering. Doesn't mean the lategame isn't hard.

And no, at the very least, there's no 80 page "PvZ lategame ZOMG" thread, like there was for TvP.
"There are always some Eskimos ready to instruct the Congolese on how to cope with heat waves." - S.J.Lec
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
June 08 2012 12:44 GMT
#635
On June 08 2012 21:40 Toadvine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 21:34 teddyoojo wrote:
On June 08 2012 21:28 Toadvine wrote:
And on a different note, PvZ lategame is also quite difficult for Protosses currently, but you don't see them whining about Zerg everywhere.

u srs? korea has 57% pvz winrate and protoss whine about zerg is everywhere.


Yeah, and it was the other way around in April. I don't see the point anyway, since Protosses win a lot with 2 base all-ins or 3 base timing pushes before Broodlords are out, or by defending a roach max and then countering. Doesn't mean the lategame isn't hard.

And no, at the very least, there's no 80 page "PvZ lategame ZOMG" thread, like there was for TvP.


Since protoss players like to talk about statistics... maybe the 7-1 match record in PvZ in GSL season 2 Code S played into it
AlexanderDebois
Profile Joined October 2011
Kyrgyzstan38 Posts
June 08 2012 12:46 GMT
#636
Let's ignore, for a moment, how intrinsically stupid the argument that Terran dominted the scene for 2 years (although if you want to be accurate it was really 2-3 months in the summer of 2011) and so now Terran's should be okay with being a shit race is, the terran domination you are referring to never affected the ladder and specifically the NA or EU ladders. Stop suggesting that this period of terran dominance affected your platinum league laddering in anyway. However, this period of zerg and, to a lesser extent protoss dominace, is affecting the ladder.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
June 08 2012 13:47 GMT
#637
On June 08 2012 19:42 Gravesong wrote:
Does anyone know if the Prime vs ST games in the KSL were played pre or post-patch? MKP had an interesting build using fast upgrades for bio and mech that worked against STCurious I believe. Has anyone seen any other terrans take this heavy upgraded biomech build against other zerg with any success?

Don't attempt to copy MKP's build, unless you literally have the best micro in the world.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
June 08 2012 13:51 GMT
#638
On June 08 2012 22:47 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 19:42 Gravesong wrote:
Does anyone know if the Prime vs ST games in the KSL were played pre or post-patch? MKP had an interesting build using fast upgrades for bio and mech that worked against STCurious I believe. Has anyone seen any other terrans take this heavy upgraded biomech build against other zerg with any success?

Don't attempt to copy MKP's build, unless you literally have the best micro in the world.


That's totally wrong. It's a good build and scales with micro, yes. But you don't need to have his skills to make it work against equal skilled zerg. You need to add those medivacs against fungal though. In his game where he didn't make any medivacs against life, he was just fungalt over time to death.
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
June 08 2012 13:55 GMT
#639
On June 08 2012 22:51 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 08 2012 22:47 ragz_gt wrote:
On June 08 2012 19:42 Gravesong wrote:
Does anyone know if the Prime vs ST games in the KSL were played pre or post-patch? MKP had an interesting build using fast upgrades for bio and mech that worked against STCurious I believe. Has anyone seen any other terrans take this heavy upgraded biomech build against other zerg with any success?

Don't attempt to copy MKP's build, unless you literally have the best micro in the world.


That's totally wrong. It's a good build and scales with micro, yes. But you don't need to have his skills to make it work against equal skilled zerg. You need to add those medivacs against fungal though. In his game where he didn't make any medivacs against life, he was just fungalt over time to death.


MKP been trying this strat on ladder in his past few streams, with more gg than not. Even his game against curious was improbable engagement after engagement in the middle, several times would of lost if reinforcement was 5 sec behind. His bio/thor strat used against DRG seems more doable but that was pre-patch.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
June 08 2012 14:46 GMT
#640
On June 08 2012 20:00 Limelights wrote:
Give it another month or two and if the winrates stay the same in ZvT, change something. We can't forget how the metagame can evolve and fix itself.

Just like they gave ZvT 2 months to let the metagame shift. OH WAIT! It was balanced in the first place and never even needed strict balance attention.
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