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On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late.
I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button...
instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard...
-_-
This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71
where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more.
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On July 03 2012 02:19 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late. I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button... instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard... -_- This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71 where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more.
I'm not terran but scan costs 240 minerals. OL costs 100. Thats why terrans are hesitiant to use them in the crucial build up phase of game where 240 minerals is huge. They scan like crazy once they are rolling on 3-4 bases and wont even build raven to detect so it's not like they are opposed to scanning - just early the econ hit is too hard.
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To anyone complaining about the PvZ winrate in Korea, a couple things need to be addressed.
1. This is only in Korea, where the sample size for this data is significantly less than the international data, which points to the fact that one month's data is unreliable. International data points to a zerg advantage over protoss.
2. There has been a resurgence of new-ish 2 base timings from Protoss (notably the immortal sentry) that have zergs on the back foot. But I tend to believe that just like the previous wave of 2 base all ins (8 gate etc.) zerg will eventually learn what they need to do to hold them off decently and this issue will auto-balance like it has in the past.
I do think there is a serious issue with ZvT because the statistical probability that last month's data has been an outlier is unlikely, but i think that this has already been discussed enough on this thread.
I am interested to see how this unfolds with the recent month's data.
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On July 03 2012 02:19 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late. I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button... instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard... -_- This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71 where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more.
you really think it's viable to blanket bases with scans every time you want to know what tech the opponent has?
-_-
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On July 03 2012 02:34 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 02:19 neoghaleon55 wrote:On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late. I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button... instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard... -_- This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71 where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more. I'm not terran but scan costs 240 minerals. OL costs 100. Thats why terrans are hesitiant to use them in the crucial build up phase of game where 240 minerals is huge. They scan like crazy once they are rolling on 3-4 bases and wont even build raven to detect so it's not like they are opposed to scanning - just early the econ hit is too hard.
And that's exactly the problem with that kind of mentality.
You have to give something for information, nothing is free.
Terrans are so used to being able to beat everything without scouting.
Do you know who Sjow is? He's notorious for never scouting because he says he doesn't need to.
Well those days are over.
Zergs don't want to build spinecrawlers and queens either, they rather use that money for drones. But guess what, spines and queens are necessary for them to survive, so Zergs have to spend money on such defenses. Protoss would rather not build the forge and cannons, but they do it so they can live through the early game. It's about time Terrans learn to adapt and stop the incessant whining.
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On July 03 2012 02:19 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late. I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button... instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard... -_- This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71 where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more.
During early beta the scan was a succesful way of scouting since the "meta" was all about staying on 1 base thus all the tech was at the same place. Right now the "meta" is all about fast expanding so a scan is not a viable way of scouting anymore because you can spread your tech through your bases. Too bad that the early beta mentality carried over and now we ear every day people saying stuff like "durr durr why you don't use scans to scout, they are ze best !!!".
Oh well, there are still some protoss and zerg players that build all their tech in their mane base, so yeah... it's really funny when you think about it.
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On July 02 2012 16:05 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 15:41 graNite wrote:
The Raven is not fine. When I have to pay 200 gsa for one unit, I want it to be psionic. Currently it is light, and gets killed way to easily. The Raven is slow and easy killed, why should I buy it? Detection, PDD and terrans always have a lot of gas (when not going mech) so gas shouldn't be the problem just getting a starport with a tech lab.
Terran doesn't have ALOT of Gas before reaching 3+ Bases and 3/3 upgrades and at that point you don't really need mules for income all that much anymore since you're saturated anyway. So detection isn't an issue and PDD against Zerg will pretty useless as well in most cases.
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Just looking at the winrates it seems that Protoss is getting pretty close to balanced with the other two races. As someone who has not played much in the past 2 months but has watched a ton of SC2 I'm wondering about the gap in ZvP. Is that just a current meta-game shift that has caused the numbers to go in Zerg favor? Only time will tell I suppose. No matter how you look at it though, the game seems to be progressing towards balance. Hopefully everything works out!
Gl and Hf!
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For god sakes blizzard. Not to the mention consists of 80% zerg so im slowly ripping all my hear out.
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On July 03 2012 02:51 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 02:19 neoghaleon55 wrote:On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late. I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button... instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard... -_- This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71 where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more. you really think it's viable to blanket bases with scans every time you want to know what tech the opponent has? -_-
Another Suggestions that the pros have had is to build a proxy barracks and float it in to the opponent's main.
It "costs" less than a scan, is faster than an overlord and has a ton of HP....what more do Terrans want?!
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On July 03 2012 02:19 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late. I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button... instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard... -_- This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71 where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more.
The reason with scanning early game is costing us 240 minerals. You have larvae and and you either. make creep tumors or inject. With terran its the exact same. If we blow 3 scans while on 2 oc at 10 minutes, were going to be left behind with a huge economic disadvantage. Theres a reason why there isnt any terran on that show and QXC explained to them why we cant be doing that.
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On July 03 2012 03:08 neoghaleon55 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 02:51 zhurai wrote:On July 03 2012 02:19 neoghaleon55 wrote:On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late. I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button... instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard... -_- This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71 where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more. you really think it's viable to blanket bases with scans every time you want to know what tech the opponent has? -_- Another Suggestions that the pros have had is to build a proxy barracks and float it in to the opponent's main. It "costs" less than a scan, is faster than an overlord and has a ton of HP....what more do Terrans want?!
This comes too late unless you really want to leave yourself open for a all-ins that ironically you want to scout. You only need to see if a Zerg is All-Inning early and if you scout that with a Rax you probably die . Later on the other thing you need to know is Hive but these days its allways the same time anyway.
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On July 03 2012 03:08 Mindflow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 02:19 neoghaleon55 wrote:On July 03 2012 02:00 tdt wrote:
Blizz did a change that was not necessary and fucked up these matchups. Why should zerg have perfect scouting? Other races dont. Why should zerg be immune to early pressure? Other races are not. What it's done is allow zerg to get to thier vitutally unbeatable late game. Protoss has sorta an answer to it with vortex gimmick. Terran does not after snipe nerf.
Besides the obvious lack of game varity (I personally like all ins and cheese) all games go late and Zerg is favored late. I love it when Terrans complain about difficulty scouting when they have the SCAN button... instantly revealing a huge junk of the map at the click of the button is so hard... -_- This issue has been brought up on State of the Game episode 71 where Artosis, Incontrol and the gang tells Terrans to stop whining and scan more. The reason with scanning early game is costing us 240 minerals. You have larvae and and you either. make creep tumors or inject. With terran its the exact same. If we blow 3 scans while on 2 oc at 10 minutes, were going to be left behind with a huge economic disadvantage. Theres a reason why there isnt any terran on that show and QXC explained to them why we cant be doing that.
Well you shouldn't blow 3 scans at 10 minutes. 1 scan isn't going to kill you if you want to know if your opponent is doing a roach/ling/bane attack or if he is going 6 queen build.
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EPT
