EPTTLPD Winrates May 2012 - Page 34
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Falconblade
United States1035 Posts
On June 10 2012 07:06 monkybone wrote: I love this kind of comments. Such premature judgement of a game that hasn't gone into beta yet. Hmm, are we in 2009? I believe he is talking about WoL, and yes, right now in WoL at this very moment, Terran is the weakest race. Instead of balancing, they overshot it. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On June 10 2012 07:06 monkybone wrote: I love this kind of comments. Such premature judgement of a game that hasn't gone into beta yet. Blizzards decisions in WoL and their design ideas for HotS do make me believe that they have no clue how to balance or make a good game though, and it worries me. I do hope that HotS is better than I expect, but I don't have any faith in Blizzard as game developers anymore. Everything they do is crappy. WoL was the rare exception, but they've succeeded in screwing it over when it was pretty damn balanced and keep trying to force bad gameplay design like warp gates/vipers/tempest/war hounds to work. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
Also let's nerf Terran some more and make their expansion units even more boring and arbitrary. And let's completely change the warhound from a mech AA unit that is so sorely needed to make mech more viable and instead make it an anti-mech unit, because apparently that's what Terran needs. *sigh* | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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[Azn]Nada
United States275 Posts
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[Azn]Nada
United States275 Posts
On June 10 2012 09:41 Starshaped wrote: Let's buff the queen some more. Super heavy macro play from Zerg is only 99.9% safe. Clearly this will not do. Also let's nerf Terran some more and make their expansion units even more boring and arbitrary. And let's completely change the warhound from a mech AA unit that is so sorely needed to make mech more viable and instead make it an anti-mech unit, because apparently that's what Terran needs. *sigh* LOL this is so true... was so surprised when queen range was buffed... dafaq | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On June 10 2012 12:14 monkybone wrote: Can anyone explain how winrates matter when it comes to balance? Every player on the ladder will on average win 50% of his games anyway. So in the situation of one race being inferior to two other equally balanced races, each player on average will still maintain a 50% winrate in all matchups, considering that he will be facing players of equal skill in a mirror matchup (50% winrate), and players of inferior skill(50% winrate) in the other matchups. This isn't ladder, this is tournaments. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Griffith`
714 Posts
(5^2/3^2-1). In other words, a +2 increase in range leads to an almost triple coverage in area. A queen used to be able to cover 9pi m^2, now it can cover 25pi m^2. Yay for quadratics. | ||
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
Overall I think that it's just hard for terrans to find new builds to adapt when there aren't as many good motives. There haven't really been any buffs ever (maybe the ghost cost last year?). Buff the infestor? Oh maybe I'll try some infestor builds. Buff the warp prism and upgrade costs? Oh maybe I'll try to use warp prisms more and some high gateway+upgrade builds. Terran just hasn't really been given a good enough reason to try any new builds because nothing has been buffed. The raven is a cool unit, and HSM has had a small speed boost, but it's a slow unit with short range casting, so only a certain tier of players will be able to practice with them, let alone create builds to tailor them. | ||
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DougJDempsey
747 Posts
On June 11 2012 13:17 phiinix wrote: I feel like I'm one of the only terrans left who actually enjoy all the tvx match ups =\ That and i don't think the queen has destroyed the tvz matchup.. Overall I think that it's just hard for terrans to find new builds to adapt when there aren't as many good motives. There haven't really been any buffs ever (maybe the ghost cost last year?). Buff the infestor? Oh maybe I'll try some infestor builds. Buff the warp prism and upgrade costs? Oh maybe I'll try to use warp prisms more and some high gateway+upgrade builds. Terran just hasn't really been given a good enough reason to try any new builds because nothing has been buffed. The raven is a cool unit, and HSM has had a small speed boost, but it's a slow unit with short range casting, so only a certain tier of players will be able to practice with them, let alone create builds to tailor them. well its hard enough to get up to 3 bases depending on the map, given all the new ways of zerg pressure. and it doesnt help that the raven is a 100/200 unit that has a chance of casting 1 HSM and might die in the process of it. its more like a unit you get when you have 6 bases and you remax ravens to mass cast HSM. | ||
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shockaslim
United States1105 Posts
On June 09 2012 04:37 c0sm0naut wrote: multiple things about this observation: illusion did not have tanks. that is HUGE. having tanks means you win that game. if he morphs those banes + makes those roaches and you have tanks, he loses instantly. also, he is ahead in eocn and units, but behind in tech. hatch tech zerg is only capable of being aggressive early, but terran will have a tech advantage going into the midgame, so their 2/2 push (should they survive bane bust) isextremely strong as a followup With these early 3 CC builds you just aren't capable of having tanks at that time. Also, With ALL roach/ling/bane attacks, it isn't meant to kill the Terran, just cripple them to the point of having a very low chance of coming back. However, many times it DOES kill the terran, and it really doesn't take a lot of effort on the Zergs part. Not to mention that it is incredibly difficult to scout. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
I mean, at this phase of the game hellions are basically worthless at denying the 3rd, so why invest in them at all when you arent going to use them for.... basically anything? You just delay your core marine composition and siege tank production. Terrans just seem so absolutely stuck on that opening, and I cant figure out why. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 11 2012 16:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Perhaps somebody can explain something to me. Why do korean terrans still use reactor hellion opening? Why not more openings designed towards stopping the 3rd base? Even before the queen buff, zergs were already adapting to the reactor hellions by getting 4 queens (and I doubt that the queen buff had such a tremendous impact on ZvT, I think it effected ZvP much more). Or getting 3 queens and a spine crawler to push them back, or 4 queens and a spine to be very aggressive with creep. I mean, at this phase of the game hellions are basically worthless at denying the 3rd, so why invest in them at all when you arent going to use them for.... basically anything? You just delay your core marine composition and siege tank production. Terrans just seem so absolutely stuck on that opening, and I cant figure out why. The queen buff had like no impact on zvp at all. I am kinda shocked you think it didn't change zvt, but effected zvp more when to me there has been like no change in zvp xD. Reactor hellion is still good, they can still deny creep (not as good as before just like the third). There really is no opening terran can do (other then 1 base all in, proxy 2 gate) that will stop a zerg from getting a third. Going cloak banshee? Every zergs third will be finished by the time cloak finishes and are fine and that's the only possible way to deny the third tbh (except on taldarim or something). | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/features/2935 Well, it seems like he didn't look at the whole picture or even the TLPD. | ||
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Twistacles
Canada1327 Posts
It's just TvP thats endlessly frustrating. | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
On June 11 2012 16:57 larse wrote: David Kim: "for example this morning I checked the highest ranking KR grandmaster – and all the matches were actually looking pretty solid." http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/features/2935 Well, it seems like he didn't look at the whole picture or even the TLPD. Did he really just look at one player and concluded balance was good. lol. | ||
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