EPTTo say something as broad sweeping as 'You simply 'can't' do damage to zerg early game because queens have 2 extra range"?
I'm sure in the coming weeks of play we will all see how false that is.
A legit discussion on the new queen buff - Page 4
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Leth0
856 Posts
To say something as broad sweeping as 'You simply 'can't' do damage to zerg early game because queens have 2 extra range"? I'm sure in the coming weeks of play we will all see how false that is. | ||
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GrassEater
Sweden417 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:45 Gentso wrote: Forge expanding or fast expanding in general will never mean early pressure. It's hard to take balance discussion seriously from someone who doesn't win tournaments or at least come close. Sorry mate, leave it to the top pros to figure it out for you. He is an pro gamer and you are not. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
in zvt it might actually be an issue. i feel like i can go for my standard 4queen build except skimp on the sim city part more aswell as spinecrawler. i also feel like i can take 3rd base without getting roaches or alot of lings to chase the hellions away. this goes for creep spreading as well. its not game breaking probably but zvt is like a huge load off where i dont have to worry about hellions abusing me too much anymore. terrans will soon find other ways to adapt im sure (i as a terran myself already got some ideas cooking and i dont look at this like a huge issue in my tvz play) zvp i had an idea maybe more queens are good now for creep spreading transfuses if need be and just general defense purposes against 8 minute timings. maybe this means zerg can delay their roach warren further. if this is true all it does is just allow for slightly more drones (not alot actually) and ofcourse pretty damn good creep spread once hes pressure is over or if he didnt pressure ofc im not gonna talk about zvp balance but as far as some extra queens early on in zvp goes i think its a solid idea and needs experimenting. if it turns out its good (not guaranteed by any means) i dont think it will be game breaking. zvp was at that point where creep spreading was something we couldnt afford early on causing lackluster creep spread into the midgame which was just kind of sad. i think the change is good for that reason to jump already and say queens totally shut down 8minute pressure stuff is kind of silly seeing how both roaches and spines are still more cost efficient defense when it comes to actually defending another thing thats worth mentioning about zvp is 1gate expands with stalker/zealot pressure from 1gateway will not be nearly as effective now. zerg probably dont even need a spine anymore to deal with stalker kiting (seeing how stalkers cant kite queens now). but again thats not a huge deal | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
I'm not aganist a buff (overlord buff is fair). But the queen buff is stupid cose it fucks one of the few smartest things about PvZ which is controling the "sac units for drone production" early game stuff. Btw, i understand the hellion map-control and blinding the z issue. But as many others, this is another design misstep to cover the crap istead of fixing it. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
My god, people act like we just make 5 queens for free without taking drone cuts or delaying tech... | ||
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Leth0
856 Posts
He's a pro gamer so what? He is immune to being wrong now? Would be pretty complicated if no pro's could ever be wrong about anything considering they all say the exact opposite shit as one another. | ||
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JOJOsc2news
3000 Posts
On May 12 2012 07:54 McFeser wrote: Could you cut off the lings and queens using force fields? I'd imagine if you seperate them they would be pretty easy to take on. If you have too many sentries for early pressure you won't have enough fire power to actually deal damage to the queens. You'd also have to micro the sentries so far back to prevent them from dying that they wouldn't do any damage at all and any kind of damage and tanking is important for Protoss with early attacks. Every unit counts at that stage. TT1 really has a point here. Also, creep spread pretty much negates any early pressure relying on force fields. I am worried for PvZ. | ||
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Mvrio
689 Posts
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
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Leth0
856 Posts
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On May 12 2012 08:03 MorroW wrote: zvp doesnt change nowhere nearly as much as in zvt in zvt it might actually be an issue. i feel like i can go for my standard 4queen build except skimp on the sim city part more aswell as spinecrawler. i also feel like i can take 3rd base without getting roaches or alot of lings to chase the hellions away. this goes for creep spreading as well. its not game breaking probably but zvt is like a huge load off where i dont have to worry about hellions abusing me too much anymore. terrans will soon find other ways to adapt im sure (i as a terran myself already got some ideas cooking and i dont look at this like a huge issue in my tvz play) zvp i had an idea maybe more queens are good now for creep spreading transfuses if need be and just general defense purposes against 8 minute timings. maybe this means zerg can delay their roach warren further. if this is true all it does is just allow for slightly more drones (not alot actually) and ofcourse pretty damn good creep spread once hes pressure is over or if he didnt pressure ofc im not gonna talk about zvp balance but as far as some extra queens early on in zvp goes i think its a solid idea and needs experimenting. if it turns out its good (not guaranteed by any means) i dont think it will be game breaking. zvp was at that point where creep spreading was something we couldnt afford early on causing lackluster creep spread into the midgame which was just kind of sad. i think the change is good for that reason to jump already and say queens totally shut down 8minute pressure stuff is kind of silly seeing how both roaches and spines are still more cost efficient defense when it comes to actually defending another thing thats worth mentioning about zvp is 1gate expands with stalker/zealot pressure from 1gateway will not be nearly as effective now. zerg probably dont even need a spine anymore to deal with stalker kiting (seeing how stalkers cant kite queens now). but again thats not a huge deal stop posting and go stream morrow! =) nice post. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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Bensio
United Kingdom621 Posts
On May 12 2012 08:05 Mvrio wrote: so since the 5 range attack is for ground and she "shoots" on ground, is it considered +1 on ranged attack from the evo or still on melee, cuz most ranged zerg units have a ranged shot and animation while having an up close attack n animation i.e Roach acid but up close its swipes with his claws Queens always benefit from Range, before the patch and after. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On May 12 2012 08:05 Mvrio wrote: so since the 5 range attack is for ground and she "shoots" on ground, is it considered +1 on ranged attack from the evo or still on melee, cuz most ranged zerg units have a ranged shot and animation while having an up close attack n animation i.e Roach acid but up close its swipes with his claws The queen melee was always buffed by ranged attack. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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GrassEater
Sweden417 Posts
On May 12 2012 08:04 Leth0 wrote: He's a pro gamer so what? He is immune to being wrong now? Would be pretty complicated if no pro's could ever be wrong about anything considering they all say the exact opposite shit as one another. Read what i responded to plz. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
You should read what you responded to. I said leave it to the top pros to figure it out. Did I say I was a top pro? Did I make any generalizations or statements in regards to balance? Nope! I just feel like there's a good number of low tier pro gamers that don't do much but whine and look for excuses. It used to be BW was the better game but I think they've gotten over that by now. | ||
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castled
United States322 Posts
On May 12 2012 08:03 MorroW wrote: + Show Spoiler + zvp doesnt change nowhere nearly as much as in zvt in zvt it might actually be an issue. i feel like i can go for my standard 4queen build except skimp on the sim city part more aswell as spinecrawler. i also feel like i can take 3rd base without getting roaches or alot of lings to chase the hellions away. this goes for creep spreading as well. its not game breaking probably but zvt is like a huge load off where i dont have to worry about hellions abusing me too much anymore. terrans will soon find other ways to adapt im sure (i as a terran myself already got some ideas cooking and i dont look at this like a huge issue in my tvz play) zvp i had an idea maybe more queens are good now for creep spreading transfuses if need be and just general defense purposes against 8 minute timings. maybe this means zerg can delay their roach warren further. if this is true all it does is just allow for slightly more drones (not alot actually) and ofcourse pretty damn good creep spread once hes pressure is over or if he didnt pressure ofc im not gonna talk about zvp balance but as far as some extra queens early on in zvp goes i think its a solid idea and needs experimenting. if it turns out its good (not guaranteed by any means) i dont think it will be game breaking. zvp was at that point where creep spreading was something we couldnt afford early on causing lackluster creep spread into the midgame which was just kind of sad. i think the change is good for that reason to jump already and say queens totally shut down 8minute pressure stuff is kind of silly seeing how both roaches and spines are still more cost efficient defense when it comes to actually defending another thing thats worth mentioning about zvp is 1gate expands with stalker/zealot pressure from 1gateway will not be nearly as effective now. zerg probably dont even need a spine anymore to deal with stalker kiting (seeing how stalkers cant kite queens now). but again thats not a huge deal A fair analysis  looking forward to seeing what T pros come up with... without hellions being able to delay the third as long or force roaches, TvZ macro games do seem like they'll be way harder now. | ||
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