On May 01 2012 04:46 JOJOsc2news wrote: I find the wording in the OP quite condescending and the points aren't necessarily backed up very well.
However, I do see where you are coming from. The first episode did come across as a little awkward and the concept behind it didn't seem to be clear (the build order part was unnecessary and the segment didn't really seem like a "How To Do: X Build"). I really wouldn't want this segment to be cut though. Soe is a really cool person and once she gets comfortable I think it is going to be amazing. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more drawings/paintings and maybe less script. It will get more natural and I do think it's a great idea to pick out very specific aspects of StarCraft II and shine a light on them.
I also like the idea of producing side content around the pure casting. It's entertaining and really makes for a great viewing experience.
NASL seems to be scripting a lot of the side content. I don't like that. Have faith in your presenters and give them more freedom.
On May 01 2012 05:00 Liquid`NonY wrote: And to let you guys in on a secret, pros laugh at and insult and shit on the opinions of hardcore players/fans posting on forums just as much as hardcore players posting on forums might shit on the strategical insight offered by this clip.
The thing is, the basic idea of going sentry/immortal/stalker against roach is an excellent way to demonstrate the sentry's main purpose. That situation is perhaps the one where sentries are most effective across all matchups and strategies (barring FF's on ramps, which they also show). It doesn't really matter what the exact details of the build are. In fact you can probably take MC Huk and Naniwa and ask them each to do that strat and they'd each do it differently. But the next time some new fan watches this approximate situation, they're gonna see how important sentries are and how they tie the whole thing together. They're not gonna see two immortals and nine sentries and think NASL is feeding them a bunch of bullshit.
Another perspective to consider is that there will never ever be a good resource on strategy. Yeah some things will be blatantly wrong. But nothing will ever stay up-to-date and perfectly reflect what the best players in the world are currently thinking and doing. I don't see the content of Soe's Corner as especially bad. It's not as close to perfect as they could possibly get but that gap is inconsequential. I see Soe's Corner as introducing and explaining a unit like LoL's champion spotlights explain a champion. There are no champion spotlights followed by HSGG copying Phreak's build exactly and using the champion for the exact same roles. The video puts the basics out there and shows some specific examples of how things come together in action. If someone who never played LoL studied the shit out of every champion spotlight, they would get SO much more out of watching LoL despite having practically zero insight into what the pros are really doing. Same with Soe's Corner.
On May 01 2012 04:53 Liquid`NonY wrote: That seemed good to me. Soe has a genuine interest and a great personality.
This is not inappropriate sex appeal. While she certainly looks good, her style isn't cranking up the sexuality. As a general rule, you put attractive people in front of the camera. That can be done without abusing sex appeal. I think Soe's Corner is pretty close to perfect in this respect.
I think having a girl do it is great because it'll make girls viewing NASL a little more comfortable. I am a fan of diversifying content so that we can get as many people interested in SC2 as possible. I don't think we need to appease the core fans anymore. While they might prefer some Day[9] clone doing this segment, they can live without it. So this helps get girls into it. And as is completely clear from the whole thing, it helps ease new SC2 fans into the complexity of the game.
I think she'll get more comfortable making these segments and become really good!
I believe, sex appeal, was one of the smaller issues on the table, I'd be interested to get your opinions on the balance portion, specifically the sentry/immortal push, I feel as if that portion was the reason I posted this thread, it is A) teaching bad habits and B) not improving new players
Seriously? Someone wants to draw pretty SC2-related pictures during downtime, and your concern is that it's not improving new players?
It's really hard to avoid the conclusion that this is a sexist concern, in the sense that you would absolutely not be applying the same level of scrutiny to this spot if it was hosted by a man. I don't doubt your good faith, but this does not have a very inclusive feel to it.
Moreover, you're not even giving constructive feedback on how the show could be improved, you're just calling for it to be eliminated.
Reserving my full judgment to give her some room to improve as she has potential. First impression is that she's decent but as Ostojiy pointed out doesn't seem to really understand the script. This makes her look rather uneasy at times especially compared to actual analysts that look comfortable doing it even on the fly.
I found the art part unnecessary in that particular segment. Personally I feel it would have been better done showing actual gameplay screens and footage esp during the analysis. Her art talents can be displayed in a much better way by recording her drawing various drawings and showing them in fast speed during transitions between games and other segments, kind of like those youtube videos or Gabe's art on PA.
On May 01 2012 04:53 Liquid`NonY wrote: That seemed good to me. Soe has a genuine interest and a great personality.
This is not inappropriate sex appeal. While she certainly looks good, her style isn't cranking up the sexuality. As a general rule, you put attractive people in front of the camera. That can be done without abusing sex appeal. I think Soe's Corner is pretty close to perfect in this respect.
I think having a girl do it is great because it'll make girls viewing NASL a little more comfortable. I am a fan of diversifying content so that we can get as many people interested in SC2 as possible. I don't think we need to appease the core fans anymore. While they might prefer some Day[9] clone doing this segment, they can live without it. So this helps get girls into it. And as is completely clear from the whole thing, it helps ease new SC2 fans into the complexity of the game.
I think she'll get more comfortable making these segments and become really good!
I believe, sex appeal, was one of the smaller issues on the table, I'd be interested to get your opinions on the balance portion, specifically the sentry/immortal push, I feel as if that portion was the reason I posted this thread, it is A) teaching bad habits and B) not improving new players
Seriously? Someone wants to draw pretty SC2-related pictures during downtime, and your concern is that it's not improving new players?
It's really hard to avoid the conclusion that this is a sexist concern, in the sense that you would absolutely not be applying the same level of scrutiny to this spot if it was hosted by a man. I don't doubt your good faith, but this does not have a very inclusive feel to it.
Moreover, you're not even giving constructive feedback on how the show could be improved, you're just calling for it to be eliminated.
I completely disagree with your entire post, I watch and invest my time into things for the content, I paid for MLG to get my content, I paid IPL because they gave good content (I could have sat back and gotten the 480p but because of the content I paid).
This was entirely suppose to be related to content, my thread is as god damned unbias as I could make it... If this was iNcontrol hosting and it was something I believed is bad, then I damn well would have posted... Don't say this is some sexist concern, and furthermore thats not downing Geoff, he's an amazing host/caster/player.
The point of this thread was stated, I believed it had poor analysis, sex appeal was one of my most minor concerns so please post content related and not verbal insults towards me insinuating that I am only conerned over the gender of the issue.
It sort of entertained me, especially the 'history'. I think it's the same girl as who had something to do with WoW at blizzcon or the EU invites for that (which wasn''t a great success.. max zoomed camera can't see anything anyone?).
Seems it's short and you can't really fit anything detailed about a certain unit involved in certain strats (you might pick one strat, let's say early 1 base double colossi all-in and talk about how the colossi could be used), I mean sentries can be used for tons of things, I'd focus something like this more on specific fun little things. Grabbing one unit give a couple of examples (I still don't know what hallucination and guardian shield do after watching) - too short.
Either: - Dive in on something specific - (forcefields and it's way to use it) - Go more global - (go trough all abiltities, without any details, as in strats to use)
Not bits of both, it's sort of confusing afterwards, has potential though. As for the fact it's a woman presenting? Aren't most weatherbroadcasts, news, etc, women now-a-days?
It was alright for a segment and i hope it comeback, if the strat was not spot on.. get real. Casters who play the game at rather high level and cast games all week are wrong about strats sometime. How can she not be wrong, if she wasnt the segment would be a loss of HER time, she would be coaching for a Korean team.
If esport is going to get bigger, you have to do things for new players who are not familiar with the game until it can sustain itself. Until we ge to the points when our kids ask why he his making so many snow globes and we explain what it does, we will need more of those, not less.
The jist I got from Soe's Corner was to introduce a unit to the less knowledgeable audience as well as its history with Blizzard and it's lore. I don't really see any aspect of the feature that can be ridiculed and poked at. I found it quite interesting. Also, Soe is an amazing artist/sculptor and it is a treat to get to watch her doing what she does best. I think Nony summed it up quite well.
On May 01 2012 05:21 Dreadwolf wrote: It was alright for a segment and i hope it comeback, if the strat was not spot on.. get real. Casters who play the game at rather high level and cast games all week are wrong about strats sometime. How can she not be wrong, if she wasnt the segment would be a loss of HER time, she would be coaching for a Korean team.
If esport is going to get bigger, you have to do things for new players who are not familiar with the game until it can sustain itself. Until we ge to the points when our kids ask why he his making so many snow globes and we explain what it does, we will need more of those, not less.
There is a big difference between "on the fly" casting of a game, and casting in a "show" atmosphere. I shouldn't have to "get real" because she's wrong on the content she is suppose to be an expert on, showing us all about. "how can she not be wrong" well perhaps because it is her show...
But it isn't that I believe she was quote "wrong" it was that she plain seemed out of place, I suppose that must just because I'm us to knowledgeable content...
Oh nony dropping serious truth, A few additionals, I feel like women can't fucking win in esports, Soe is dressed in jeans and and a not particular low cut t shirt and plaid shirt over the top, and the fact this can be derided as "degrading woman" by anyone boggles my mind. She has a talent, speaks well in front of the camera and presents accessible material in filler segments for NASL,I'm kinda confused as to why there is such a fuss.
I don't have a problem with it. It's a 4 min filler segment meant to kill time. It's not meant to appeal to the hardcore posters of TL. I love all the little segments NASL does as it's much better than looking at a splash screen as filler.
By the way, the segment they did with SelecT and viOLet using construction equipment to move around a pile a dirt didn't teach new players anything... you gonna complain about that too?
Even if she was a complete moron and everything she said was super basic and/or wrong, it's better than watching a "stay tuned!" screen and listening to some generic electro-pop or muscle rock, which is what 90% of tournaments do to fill time.
I've been following Soe a little over a year after she did some co-casting VODs with Day[9] in Germany, you can find one the videos here:+ Show Spoiler +
and you'll find more on Day[9]'s channel.
And baised on those videos I would say that she knows what she is talking about. I think her and Day[9] did an excellent job casting together, and it wasn't just Day[9] bringing all the fancy analytical analysis. Even though they are over one year old, I can't imagine a girl like Soe, forgetting everything that is Starcraft and I'm 100% sure she hasn't.
I think that Soe's cornor was a cute little time killer, and I would love to see more of it, and more shows like that in general. They don't have to be top of the line deep deep analysis, just throw in some fun facts and show some strategies. The real treat is the games afterall, so throwing in a small thing like this is amazing, in my opinion.
Some of the comments in this thread really reminds me of the Lindsay Spore era in one of the previous NASL seasons. But I can ensure you, Soe knows her shit! Soe is funny, talented, loves eSports and a really nice person.
The only thing I think they need to do better, is having taking some close-ups of the drawings, they were kinda hard to see, and usually her drawings are AMAZING!
On May 01 2012 05:36 corpuscle wrote: By the way, the segment they did with SelecT and viOLet using construction equipment to move around a pile a dirt didn't teach new players anything... you gonna complain about that too?
Even if she was a complete moron and everything she said was super basic and/or wrong, it's better than watching a "stay tuned!" screen and listening to some generic electro-pop or muscle rock, which is what 90% of tournaments do to fill time.
... If content is mean't to be funny, then I'm glad it is funny. If it is mean't to be analysis based, and is not, then why show it? The argument "even if she is a complete moron and everything she said was basic or wrong" is a terrible argument, firstly because I never once said she was wrong or a moron but mainly because that takes away from the community. If it is suppose to be her own talk show, with cool backstory and lore, then show that but don't get into a balance discussion over the unit or discuss its attributes so thinly. That is all I was trying to get across...
EPT
