EPTDRG MC and Nestea tweeting balance? - Page 9
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
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alpinefpOPP
United States134 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On February 03 2012 09:31 Adreme wrote: Yesterday we watched what should have been both Protoss's advancing off of a lot of immortal busts basically. This is also a reason that statistics are a tricky thing to use for balacing starcraft. If you look at yesterdays games for example you have MMA who was going to lose to Oz 2-0 before he move commanded a bunch of his army in and lost it and the game along with it. That game goes down in statistics as a terran win but everyone who watched it knows its cause Oz lost a won game. That's not an issue because that kind of mistake can happen to anyone. The only issue is people trying to draw conclusions from small sets of data. | ||
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imyzhang
Canada809 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On February 03 2012 10:43 zefreak wrote: Yeah, it's like how on Cella's stream a while back there were people on Slayers yelling "Fuck Terran", including Terran players. They just joke around. It's like when MC jokes about how good marines are.It seems people don't realize how lighthearted these comments are.. korean pros always poke fun at each other. While Nestea and DRG might have some legitimate complaints regarding balance, I wouldn't take this as whining like Idra does. When MC says everything about terran and zerg is imba nobody takes it seriously.. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
Zerg can be an extremely stressful race, with its massive complexity and reactionary playstyle. There's also the part about how he's the top dog and has to constantly maintain that position even though he's pretty old by progamer standards. Of course, aging 10 years over 1 year isn't necessarily a bad thing if he means that he matured a lot (learned to control the inevitable Zerg rage). This is going to be one embarassing tangent though if he was completely joking. | ||
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mute20
Canada175 Posts
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JJH777
United States4376 Posts
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
On February 03 2012 11:08 mute20 wrote: imbalanced episode 2 with drg/nestea/idra. Maybe the dream will come alive. LOL the conclusion of the episode would be suggestions of removing terran and protoss units from the game | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On February 03 2012 09:31 Adreme wrote: Yesterday we watched what should have been both Protoss's advancing off of a lot of immortal busts basically. This is also a reason that statistics are a tricky thing to use for balacing starcraft. If you look at yesterdays games for example you have MMA who was going to lose to Oz 2-0 before he move commanded a bunch of his army in and lost it and the game along with it. That game goes down in statistics as a terran win but everyone who watched it knows its cause Oz lost a won game. Then you have the fact that the only league where you have the best of the best playing is Code S in GSL and that doenst have enough games all its own to form effective statistical trends. Even if it did with the ability to pick your map, as we saw last night you get a lot of TvP on Crossfire and we will probably see a lot of ZvP on crossfire soon as well. So basically the only way to judge the state of the game is off of what you see and what you see is a subjective way to judge. no. that's not how statistics work. the only issue is sample size. the problem with balance around statistics is that it does not take into account the nonmathematical aspects of balance, such as whether the match up is fun, which for most pro gamers (and for audience watching) involves a complex game of strategy where each player can have the opportunity to attack, defend, rely on scouting information, blah blah blah etc...those things are all subjective, which statistics does not account for. | ||
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
On February 02 2012 21:15 Telcontar wrote: I won't translate verbatim, but here's a summary: DRG says whether it's PvZ or PvT, the deadliness of immortals depend entirely on the 'skill' of forcefields. If the toss fails with FFs, P loses, if not, P wins. MC retorts by saying DRG should switch to toss and hone his 'forcefield skills'. Nestea tells DRG to not QQ and just lose cleanly. DRG tells the toss players to admit P is sickeningly strong right now. He then tells Nestea he's depressed and doesn't want to live (jokingly). Nestea tells him 'let toss win titles, so that david kim will nerf toss. Zerg needs to make a living as well. Let's go through together. In reality though, we'll both probably fail to go through.' MC tells DRG to take lessons from Nestea. He also reminds him that P has only reached 3 GSL finals thus far. He also tells DRG that even though toss is strong, he should've beaten the likes of Genius (joke). DRG responds to Nestea by saying he doesn't see a golden age coming for zerg before HOTS is out. If Nestea is right and both of them are knocked out, they should go out for a meal. Nestea says sure. He also says choosing zerg means you have to endure all the hardships that come with it. He says he's aged 10 years over the past one. DRG also calls MC shameless. That's it. John? Is that you? ^^ | ||
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Brett
Australia3820 Posts
On February 03 2012 09:14 avilo wrote: Yep, mostly because throughout SC2's history Korean Terran players have been 10x better than their Zerg/Protoss counterparts. Only in the last 2-3 months have Korean Protosses even caught up and figured out to play defensive vs T, and Zergs in general learned about the brood/corruptor/infestor 100% deathball. Not only that, there was a larger player pool of Korean Terrans/Terrans in general with the game's release. But mostly Terran still wins a lot in recent times because Terrans have 10x the skill. I agree early on in beta/a bit after release Terran was ezmode. Not so much nowadays though, it's the opposite - Terran takes a massive amount of skill + multitask + apm. Right now the game is *decently* balanced imo, but if people want to say one race has an advantage over the other two right now, it is definitely Protoss that is too strong right now, having advantages both over Z/T (just like these progamers are saying). I could elaborate for pages, but let's just say Protosses figured out they never need to attack Terran late game b4 200/200 templar+collosus+turtle mode, and in PvZ protosses figured out with their new cheap upgrade that David Kim gave them, they can have +2/+3 weapons on their 2 base blink stalker all-ins and such at around the 15-17 minute mark...which is crazy good... It's always nice to read pros when they aren't censoring themselves, like these twitter posts. In my opinion, David Kim himself is swayed way too much by progamer's that personally contact him with their balance opinions. It's not good at all for the game. What these pros are saying about FF/immortal shinanigans is completely true though - it's completely in the hands of the protoss player doing the FF's good or fucking em up - Terran/Zerg have no say in the matter, they just have to have the prerequisite 6 layered bunkers in place or autolose, and Zerg just has to pray they have enough units or that P fucks up. You've just got it all figured out now, haven't you?? Hilarious that you're still going on about that upgrade issue. | ||
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TheTurk
United States732 Posts
Good. Banter. | ||
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Arisen
United States2382 Posts
1) You are not better than DRG, Nestea or MC if I can pronounce your name 2) These players have an opinion hardened from a lot of experience; it's OK to disagree with what they are saying, but do not be stupid and post that they don't know what they're talking about or w/e; they probably know a lot more than you do. 3) ZvP and ZvT are both really, really hard matchups right now and pro zerg players are bound to be frustrated; while their comments are based on a large pool of experience, of course it's not an absolute comment on balance. Even pro players need to vent every now and then. 4) IF you play Protoss or Zerg, this conversation is not grounds to start flaming about balance or how you feel X or Y is skilless, why your race is so hard, etc. 5) Protoss matchups are hard as well. While you might be frustrated with your vsP matchup, have enough respect for your opponents and the game to recognize that they are also working their ass off for the win; you certainly can discuss why you feel certain things are too strong, but there's too much flaming going on. | ||
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deathzz
669 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On February 03 2012 04:09 CanucksJC wrote: LOL AT MC 'Even if Toss is good, you should at least beat Genius' ...classic. LOLZ Another great line from MC. | ||
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FlamingTurd
United States1059 Posts
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deadmau
960 Posts
On February 03 2012 11:47 Brett wrote: You've just got it all figured out now, haven't you?? Hilarious that you're still going on about that upgrade issue. Reading his reply, I can now discredit many of the balance comments he makes, it's obvious he was totally out of touch with what happened with the "upgrade buffs" which gave an extra zealot here, an extra stalker there, and did nothing to quicken the time we complete upgrades. As mentioned proven before, the upgrade changes in that patch did NOTHING to hasten toss upgrades completion, it changed 0, because by the time forges finished, we made sure we had the mins/gas to get them regardless of the cost, so it did nothing to speed them up. Sorry Avilo's "15-17 minute 2-base" argument is phony and totally off base, also in imaginary fairy tale land. The money saved from that buff was hardly anything meaningful. Not saying the guy's a bad player but unable to stand objectively and look at what really went on there. Many of the complaints I see in here are, sure the stats say this, but this is what really happened. The stats are so skewed in Zerg favor this month, but it's suddenly fine, the stats don't mean much it's not what really happened. However, last month we all heard it's closer now, and it's getting better for the Toss from Zerg. So much bias from all races at any given point in time, but this month Zergs are really despicable. How can you be on top and defend for two months in a row games going in your favor, especially when the latter month is even more retardedly skewed in your favor. A lot of the recent Zerg complaints are based on TLPD January, which I don't know how a Zerg can atm. When they needed help, they definitely needed help in early 2011, but now when they are heavily favored they don't give anyone else a break, still complain. Appalling. fixed: DRG: [Zergs are] shameless [at this point in time]. | ||
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brimestone
South Africa16 Posts
So when idrA says it, he's whining about balance. When DRG and Nestea say it, suddenly it is fact. /sigh Do u play better than idra? do u understand the game better than idra? If not. Idra probably correct most of the time. | ||
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