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On February 05 2012 03:43 superstartran wrote:
Protoss shittiest race for like 6-8 months by statistics :
T and Z players say get better you Protoss players suck dick don't know how to macro etc.
Protoss pulls win percentages remotely within the 50% range :
OMG PROTOSS OP WTF IS THIS NONSENSE BROKEN NERF PLEASE.
This is what I see on Teamliquid all the time. The statistics are the most reliable way to tell balance, especially over long periods of time. Protoss by far was the weakest race in SC2 for a large measure of time, and yet everyone just kept saying Protoss players were bad/non-innovative/etc. etc. So all of a sudden when Protoss players just simply play better (None of the buffs except Warp Prism buff was significant), all of a sudden everyone is whining that Protoss is overpowered, even though the most recent tournament statistics show that Protoss is in fact still the weakest race on an international level? Don't make me laugh.
and by statistics you mean one stat which is based on the TLPD which includes games from GSL cod S to weekly NA cups. Look at the right side and tell me u agree with that ranking of the international players. Yep, it's based on the same data base. That win % thing which gets published every month has been known to show illogical things, if you just take that and base your opinion on it, dont be suprised if ppl dont take you seriously.
Or just take past "known as imba" stats, and figure out which month they appeared, and check the corresponding month to see if it's "shown" there, or do the same thing with patches, when one race gets buffed does the curve shift. Let me tell you, it wont, at least not many times.
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On February 05 2012 03:50 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 03:43 superstartran wrote:
Protoss shittiest race for like 6-8 months by statistics :
T and Z players say get better you Protoss players suck dick don't know how to macro etc.
Protoss pulls win percentages remotely within the 50% range :
OMG PROTOSS OP WTF IS THIS NONSENSE BROKEN NERF PLEASE.
This is what I see on Teamliquid all the time. The statistics are the most reliable way to tell balance, especially over long periods of time. Protoss by far was the weakest race in SC2 for a large measure of time, and yet everyone just kept saying Protoss players were bad/non-innovative/etc. etc. So all of a sudden when Protoss players just simply play better (None of the buffs except Warp Prism buff was significant), all of a sudden everyone is whining that Protoss is overpowered, even though the most recent tournament statistics show that Protoss is in fact still the weakest race on an international level? Don't make me laugh. and by statistics you mean one stat which is based on the TLPD which includes games from GSL cod S to weekly NA cups. Look at the right side and tell me u agree with that ranking of the international players. Yep, it's based on the same data base. That win % thing which gets published every month has been known to show illogical things, if you just take that and base your opinion on it, dont be suprised if ppl dont take you seriously. Or just take past "known as imba" stats, and figure out which month they appeared, and check the corresponding month to see if it's "shown" there, or do the same thing with patches, when one race gets buffed does the curve shift. Let me tell you, it wont at least not many times.
Doesn't matter how many errors there is, the fact of the matter is for about a 8 month stretch Protoss was the most significantly weak race in the game by far, and everyone here knew it (except everyone simply ignored that fact and went on their merry way). And those statistics are fine, you're probably just a T/Z whiner crying foul that you have to actually know how to play against Protoss know rather than doing something stupid like 12 minute 200 Roach busting a Protoss player to death or 1-1-1 all inning every game.
So when all of a sudden Protoss players actually start playing better and winning, everyone starts crying because they used to assrape Protoss players before. None of the buffs that Protoss players got were in any way significant (MAYBE the Archon buff against Terran, but even that is questionable at best) other than the Warp Prism buff/Immortal Buff. Protoss players as a whole just started playing better, refining better timings, and started just playing smarter.
And are you serious? After the removal of KA and the changing of Infestors to supermega faceroll you unit, Protoss took a huge nosedive in win precentage and stayed there for a very long time. Infestor buffs made Z mega good, and they were actually winning quite alot. They had a solid percentage against all the races, with a massive win percentage against P, and about even vs T.
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And people say that Zerg TLers complain the most... I just don't see it.
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On February 05 2012 03:52 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 03:50 Geo.Rion wrote:On February 05 2012 03:43 superstartran wrote:
Protoss shittiest race for like 6-8 months by statistics :
T and Z players say get better you Protoss players suck dick don't know how to macro etc.
Protoss pulls win percentages remotely within the 50% range :
OMG PROTOSS OP WTF IS THIS NONSENSE BROKEN NERF PLEASE.
This is what I see on Teamliquid all the time. The statistics are the most reliable way to tell balance, especially over long periods of time. Protoss by far was the weakest race in SC2 for a large measure of time, and yet everyone just kept saying Protoss players were bad/non-innovative/etc. etc. So all of a sudden when Protoss players just simply play better (None of the buffs except Warp Prism buff was significant), all of a sudden everyone is whining that Protoss is overpowered, even though the most recent tournament statistics show that Protoss is in fact still the weakest race on an international level? Don't make me laugh. and by statistics you mean one stat which is based on the TLPD which includes games from GSL cod S to weekly NA cups. Look at the right side and tell me u agree with that ranking of the international players. Yep, it's based on the same data base. That win % thing which gets published every month has been known to show illogical things, if you just take that and base your opinion on it, dont be suprised if ppl dont take you seriously. Or just take past "known as imba" stats, and figure out which month they appeared, and check the corresponding month to see if it's "shown" there, or do the same thing with patches, when one race gets buffed does the curve shift. Let me tell you, it wont at least not many times. Doesn't matter how many errors there is, the fact of the matter is for about a 8 month stretch Protoss was the most significantly weak race in the game by far, and everyone here knew it (except everyone simply ignored that fact and went on their merry way). And those statistics are fine, you're probably just a T/Z whiner crying foul that you have to actually know how to play against Protoss know rather than doing something stupid like 12 minute 200 Roach busting a Protoss player to death or 1-1-1 all inning every game. So when all of a sudden Protoss players actually start playing better and winning, everyone starts crying because they used to assrape Protoss players before. None of the buffs that Protoss players got were in any way significant (MAYBE the Archon buff against Terran, but even that is questionable at best) other than the Warp Prism buff/Immortal Buff. Protoss players as a whole just started playing better, refining better timings, and started just playing smarter. And are you serious? After the removal of KA and the changing of Infestors to supermega faceroll you unit, Protoss took a huge nosedive in win precentage and stayed there for a very long time. Infestor buffs made Z mega good, and they were actually winning quite alot. They had a solid percentage against all the races, with a massive win percentage against P, and about even vs T.
was the losingest race. not the weakest. you had a bunch of newbies stuck on deathball styles that were freewin for months before trying to deal with a big change to gameplay. you revert the infestor nerf patches and protosses would not do much worse at all now that theyve discovered templar tech and motherships and dont keep their entire army within 2 fungal radii
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On February 05 2012 00:55 xelnaga_galaxy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 18:48 Zanazuah wrote:
It's true tho. Toss is the strongest race atm. Yeah, I agree. It's very easy to win as Toss now - you can A-click with a 200/200 army and it's an automatic victory for Toss. I was a mid Diamond player before all the buffs to Toss but then I switched to Toss after the buffs and now I am a top 10 Masters player. DRG and Nestea are right about Toss. MC was horrible at BW but he won multiple GSLs - shows you how OP Toss was when a failed BW player can win so many GSLs.
at least next time you attempt to balance whine, try and be a little more creative than this. its pretty obvious you dont play protoss and this never happened.
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On February 05 2012 03:52 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 03:50 Geo.Rion wrote:On February 05 2012 03:43 superstartran wrote:
Protoss shittiest race for like 6-8 months by statistics :
T and Z players say get better you Protoss players suck dick don't know how to macro etc.
Protoss pulls win percentages remotely within the 50% range :
OMG PROTOSS OP WTF IS THIS NONSENSE BROKEN NERF PLEASE.
This is what I see on Teamliquid all the time. The statistics are the most reliable way to tell balance, especially over long periods of time. Protoss by far was the weakest race in SC2 for a large measure of time, and yet everyone just kept saying Protoss players were bad/non-innovative/etc. etc. So all of a sudden when Protoss players just simply play better (None of the buffs except Warp Prism buff was significant), all of a sudden everyone is whining that Protoss is overpowered, even though the most recent tournament statistics show that Protoss is in fact still the weakest race on an international level? Don't make me laugh. and by statistics you mean one stat which is based on the TLPD which includes games from GSL cod S to weekly NA cups. Look at the right side and tell me u agree with that ranking of the international players. Yep, it's based on the same data base. That win % thing which gets published every month has been known to show illogical things, if you just take that and base your opinion on it, dont be suprised if ppl dont take you seriously. Or just take past "known as imba" stats, and figure out which month they appeared, and check the corresponding month to see if it's "shown" there, or do the same thing with patches, when one race gets buffed does the curve shift. Let me tell you, it wont at least not many times. Doesn't matter how many errors there is, the fact of the matter is for about a 8 month stretch Protoss was the most significantly weak race in the game by far, and everyone here knew it (except everyone simply ignored that fact and went on their merry way). And those statistics are fine, you're probably just a T/Z whiner crying foul that you have to actually know how to play against Protoss know rather than doing something stupid like 12 minute 200 Roach busting a Protoss player to death or 1-1-1 all inning every game. So when all of a sudden Protoss players actually start playing better and winning, everyone starts crying because they used to assrape Protoss players before. None of the buffs that Protoss players got were in any way significant (MAYBE the Archon buff against Terran, but even that is questionable at best) other than the Warp Prism buff/Immortal Buff. Protoss players as a whole just started playing better, refining better timings, and started just playing smarter. And are you serious? After the removal of KA and the changing of Infestors to supermega faceroll you unit, Protoss took a huge nosedive in win precentage and stayed there for a very long time. Infestor buffs made Z mega good, and they were actually winning quite alot. They had a solid percentage against all the races, with a massive win percentage against P, and about even vs T.
Even when protoss was at there strongest with the KA and all the things cited there were like 5 protoss players who were even any good in code A/S. There are about a dozen protoss players who finally seem to have figured out the game and have drastically gotten better because of it. The last patch did not turn players who coudlnt make it into code A into code S quality players. They finally did start to gain some good players and people took notice. The thing that was going on before was that as I said there were like 5 good protoss so you could get away with having a bad vP since again they didnt exist in GSL and now they do.
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None of the buffs that Protoss players got were in any way significant (MAYBE the Archon buff against Terran, but even that is questionable at best) other than the Warp Prism buff/Immortal Buff.
I think you forgot the ghost EMP nerf as well as GSL maps getting bigger and have easier defendable thirds. We can argue all day whether the changes were justified and both sides would have some valid points.. But I think at least we should mention them
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On February 05 2012 21:45 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +None of the buffs that Protoss players got were in any way significant (MAYBE the Archon buff against Terran, but even that is questionable at best) other than the Warp Prism buff/Immortal Buff. I think you forgot the ghost EMP nerf as well as GSL maps getting bigger and have easier defendable thirds. We can argue all day whether the changes were justified and both sides would have some valid points.. But I think at least we should mention them
They look tiny compared to the "old" protoss nerfs: warp gate time research, sentry damage, void ray damage (they were so OP and now they suck balls xD), void ray speed upgrade removal, collossus damage, storm damage, KA upgrade removal.
Just off the top of my head.
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On February 03 2012 00:34 SuperFanBoy wrote:
how come they are allowed to talk about balance and things being OP, when we can even mention anything like that here on TL.. I think it really hurts the community when you can't discuss the game without being banned :S
its obvious the TL mods have an agenda. Balance discussion is a right as far as im concerned. Its comparable to SOPA / ACTA here in terms of discussion.
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On February 02 2012 22:34 cyclone25 wrote:
Sad to see that the only 2 zergs left in GSL aren't too confident about their chances to pass the group, let alone win it.
Nobody in that group should be too confident. It's the most deadly group I've ever seen in a GSL.
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On February 05 2012 21:12 MandoRelease wrote:
And people say that Zerg TLers complain the most... I just don't see it.
Since the ghost nerf terran has easily become the most QQ race ever. Lets just wait till the day comes when the true terran master race returns and people stop building marauder.
Protoss will always be the race that people bitch about the most when they are doing somewhat well, thats just how it is.
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On February 05 2012 22:47 Cartel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 00:34 SuperFanBoy wrote:
how come they are allowed to talk about balance and things being OP, when we can even mention anything like that here on TL.. I think it really hurts the community when you can't discuss the game without being banned :S its obvious the TL mods have an agenda. Balance discussion is a right as far as im concerned. Its comparable to SOPA / ACTA here in terms of discussion.
Yeah, an agenda to keep the forums clean and cut topics that would otherwise clog the forums with completely useless content, usually delivered in a whining and frustration venting tone and ridden with uneducated circular arguments that lead absolutely nowhere.
Sounds like a perfect agenda to me.
Besides, pretty much every serious gamer group or community looks down upon people crying imbalance and unfairness. It's one of the worst parts of gaming culture and there's nothing wrong with stomping on it hard.
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They look tiny compared to the "old" protoss nerfs: warp gate time research, sentry damage, void ray damage (they were so OP and now they suck balls xD), void ray speed upgrade removal, collossus damage, storm damage, KA upgrade removal.
I think people were referring to the changes in the past few months... Not from like a year ago... If we want to list all the changes since beta, I am sure all races have that many
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On February 05 2012 23:10 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 22:47 Cartel wrote:On February 03 2012 00:34 SuperFanBoy wrote:
how come they are allowed to talk about balance and things being OP, when we can even mention anything like that here on TL.. I think it really hurts the community when you can't discuss the game without being banned :S its obvious the TL mods have an agenda. Balance discussion is a right as far as im concerned. Its comparable to SOPA / ACTA here in terms of discussion. Yeah, an agenda to keep the forums clean and cut topics that would otherwise clog the forums with completely useless content, usually delivered in a whining and frustration venting tone and ridden with uneducated circular arguments that lead absolutely nowhere. Sounds like a perfect agenda to me. Besides, pretty much every serious gamer group or community looks down upon people crying imbalance and unfairness. It's one of the worst parts of gaming culture and there's nothing wrong with stomping on it hard.
Not a single videogame ever has been anywhere near balanced on release. I think we all can agree Sc2 was no exception. Also, terrible small maps. If it is so obvious now, why was it so terrible to claim imbalance back then? Who decides when the game is perfectly fine as it is? Doesn't look so easy to me 
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LOL. That was pretty funny.
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On February 05 2012 21:24 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2012 03:52 superstartran wrote:On February 05 2012 03:50 Geo.Rion wrote:On February 05 2012 03:43 superstartran wrote:
Protoss shittiest race for like 6-8 months by statistics :
T and Z players say get better you Protoss players suck dick don't know how to macro etc.
Protoss pulls win percentages remotely within the 50% range :
OMG PROTOSS OP WTF IS THIS NONSENSE BROKEN NERF PLEASE.
This is what I see on Teamliquid all the time. The statistics are the most reliable way to tell balance, especially over long periods of time. Protoss by far was the weakest race in SC2 for a large measure of time, and yet everyone just kept saying Protoss players were bad/non-innovative/etc. etc. So all of a sudden when Protoss players just simply play better (None of the buffs except Warp Prism buff was significant), all of a sudden everyone is whining that Protoss is overpowered, even though the most recent tournament statistics show that Protoss is in fact still the weakest race on an international level? Don't make me laugh. and by statistics you mean one stat which is based on the TLPD which includes games from GSL cod S to weekly NA cups. Look at the right side and tell me u agree with that ranking of the international players. Yep, it's based on the same data base. That win % thing which gets published every month has been known to show illogical things, if you just take that and base your opinion on it, dont be suprised if ppl dont take you seriously. Or just take past "known as imba" stats, and figure out which month they appeared, and check the corresponding month to see if it's "shown" there, or do the same thing with patches, when one race gets buffed does the curve shift. Let me tell you, it wont at least not many times. Doesn't matter how many errors there is, the fact of the matter is for about a 8 month stretch Protoss was the most significantly weak race in the game by far, and everyone here knew it (except everyone simply ignored that fact and went on their merry way). And those statistics are fine, you're probably just a T/Z whiner crying foul that you have to actually know how to play against Protoss know rather than doing something stupid like 12 minute 200 Roach busting a Protoss player to death or 1-1-1 all inning every game. So when all of a sudden Protoss players actually start playing better and winning, everyone starts crying because they used to assrape Protoss players before. None of the buffs that Protoss players got were in any way significant (MAYBE the Archon buff against Terran, but even that is questionable at best) other than the Warp Prism buff/Immortal Buff. Protoss players as a whole just started playing better, refining better timings, and started just playing smarter. And are you serious? After the removal of KA and the changing of Infestors to supermega faceroll you unit, Protoss took a huge nosedive in win precentage and stayed there for a very long time. Infestor buffs made Z mega good, and they were actually winning quite alot. They had a solid percentage against all the races, with a massive win percentage against P, and about even vs T. was the losingest race. not the weakest. you had a bunch of newbies stuck on deathball styles that were freewin for months before trying to deal with a big change to gameplay. you revert the infestor nerf patches and protosses would not do much worse at all now that theyve discovered templar tech and motherships and dont keep their entire army within 2 fungal radii
hahaha I love IdrA
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Russian Federation164 Posts
On February 03 2012 00:54 SC2NeCro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2012 00:52 Inori wrote:On February 03 2012 00:49 SC2NeCro wrote:On February 03 2012 00:45 eYeball wrote:
Didnt David Kim said in his blog that zerg had highest winrates or most prize money earned or something like that?
It's sad to see progamers qq this much Yes because that really matters. No what matters is the current state of the game, and nothing else. You don't base nerfs/buffs over prize money you base it off the matchup. /facepalm And current state of the game shows us that toss has 41% win rate against Zerg.... From what? Ladder? Tournaments? Before latest patch? After latest patch? Show me the statistic. The only thing that should matter is pro gamer vs. pro gamer % after the latest patch.
http://imgur.com/a/hQHYS
Soo.. Yeah, only 27k games.. I guess they filtered out bronzies..
And TLPD.. Well, TLPD is Totally Laddering Platinum Diamond!
Kinda weird how a hillarious trollversation posted in the OP leads towards good old flaming :/
Well, whatever, I believe toss is OP, that why is f*cking play it! XD
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+ Show Spoiler [Code S Ro8] +It would seem that DRG was just BS-ing everyone. He also tells DRG that even though toss is strong, he should've beaten the likes of Genius (joke). Famous last words
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Thought I'd put it in chronological order so everyone could see the flow of the conversation..
Nestea: (@DRG) - Still, when you picked Zerg, you should've prepared for going through at least this much struggle. You seem to have aged 10 years this past year.
DRG: (@Nestea) - From my point of view, we're going to have to wait till the expansion for Zerg to not be a joke. Why don't we go grab some food together once we've both dropped out of Code S.
MC: (@Nestea/DRG) - In any case, no matter how strong Protoss is right now...you should be able to beat someone like Genius...
MC: (@DRG) - And even with how strong Protoss is, has there been in a Protoss in more than 3 GSL championship?
Nestea: (@DRG) - Just let Protoss win a few championships so David Kim can get to nerfing them. Until then, we'll just deal with it and get through this together. We're probably both screwed this season, though.
DRG: (@Nestea) - I can't take this anymore, it makes me wanna kill myself.
DRG: Just admit that Protoss is very strong right now.
Nestea: (@DRG) - Stop crying, it looks bad. Just take your losses.
MC: (@DRG) - Why don't you switch to Protoss and work on your forcefields then?
DRG: Whether you're against Terran or Zerg, the effectiveness of immortals depends entirely on the "skill" of the forcefields. If the Protoss hits them, he wins; if he misses, he loses.
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EPT
