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On January 10 2012 12:22 SkimGuy wrote:
It's funny to see SC2 newcompers compare players like Flash to even other A-teamers
He makes other A-teamers look like scrubs.
Flash would make MVP look like Bitbybit (i.e the only way you could beat him would be to use a cheesy strategy). The scary part is - This isn't even that much of an exaggeration, Flash is that good.
like when he lost 2 Classic and some other random mediocore T in straight up games?.
playing straight up vs Flash gives u a higher winrate then paying some chesse. cause for whatever reason he scouts exactly in that game for some cheese and finds it 
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On January 10 2012 12:07 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 11:58 Mongolbonjwa wrote:On January 10 2012 11:52 Al Bundy wrote:On January 10 2012 11:40 Mongolbonjwa wrote:On January 10 2012 11:34 Energizer wrote:On January 10 2012 11:16 Mongolbonjwa wrote:
Those who are waiting to see Flash dominate sc2 are going to be let down. SC2 is alot easier game to play at the first place, so there is probably not gonna be any resemblance of dominance what Flash had in BW if he starts to play SC2. Sure he would be good, but so are everyone else. "Good" Doesn't define Flash "Good" Is what you use for that one player who doesn't win any tournaments but never seems to drop a showmatch. IE "Liquid`Tyler is really good" "Good" Is what you say to someone who says "Howya feeling?" "Good" is the kind of player that doesn't have the decision making or quick thinking to become great, but has the mechanics to be "Good" The word "Good" and Flash in the same sentance is nothing but an insult, and honestly, I dont think you have a flippin idea what would happen if he switched to sc2. The fact you even have the word "bonjwa" in your name and you doubt flash is pitaful. Give me a break. Im not sure if you are serious or what. But lets honestly think realistically this thing. Flash is godly good in bw because bw is very hard to manage well, and flash has managed to play it higher level than anyone else. But sc2 is so much easier game, which gives little room to dominate like flash does in bw. Flash has godlike mechanics, that's undeniable, but the most important thing to consider is the strategic talent of this player. His great mechanics only allow him to actually perform these ridiculous strategies and insanely awesome tactics. I think we should focus on the fact that he is a genius strategist. At the end of the day, this is what is most important. As you said, sc2 is "easier". That means that the top players basically all have near-perfect macro and mechanics. So what's left in order to determine who's the best? It all comes down to strategy and tactics. I believe Sc2's macro is easier because Blizzard wants the player to focus on actual strategy. It is not clear how "genius strategists" he really is, but we do know that sc2 is way easier game and allows many players chance to take games off of everyone basicly. Maybe flash is not so great strategists as you think, and thus comes just decent player. But maybe im wrong and he really is "godly good" strategy-wise compared to other guys in sc2 scene let alone following a-teamers to switch. It is just not so likely that we are gonna see flash dominate sc2 same way he does in brood war. I do know , besides being one hell of a talented and brainy kid at broodwar he is a hero in real life when he jump in to the pool to save kal who was drowning at the swimming pool . With that I salute you LEE YOUNG HO !!!!!! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158324
lol thanks for that. First time reading it.
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On January 10 2012 12:28 Seraphone wrote:
Don't you think that's sort of premature? After one year of Starcraft 1 people were still mostly one basing. Now obviously I would expect Sc2 to be much more developed than Sc1 was after a year given it built on Sc1's foundations. However, there's no way you can expect Sc2 to be as developed after one year than Sc1 after 13 years.
People didn't understand Muta stacking, hold lurkers after one year of Sc1 either.
I really think people writing of Sc2 after a year are insanely judgemental. The game's about a million times better now than during the GSL Open Seasons. Why not assume it will continue to improve exponentially?
Professional gaming didn't exist anywhere near on the level it does today when Starcraft was released. Starcraft 2 is being "figured out" incredibly quickly on the professional level just because of the massive amount of resources being thrown at it. As far as development of the game in comparison to Brood War, at what point would you actually consider it fair to make the comparison? If you're just talking about how long a game has been out, you could theoretically always make this argument until the end of time. At some point you're going to have to be able to sit down and put the two side by side. Granted, I don't believe that time is yet, but it's definitely not going to take anywhere near 13 years... or even 4.
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On January 10 2012 12:45 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 12:28 Seraphone wrote:
Don't you think that's sort of premature? After one year of Starcraft 1 people were still mostly one basing. Now obviously I would expect Sc2 to be much more developed than Sc1 was after a year given it built on Sc1's foundations. However, there's no way you can expect Sc2 to be as developed after one year than Sc1 after 13 years.
People didn't understand Muta stacking, hold lurkers after one year of Sc1 either.
I really think people writing of Sc2 after a year are insanely judgemental. The game's about a million times better now than during the GSL Open Seasons. Why not assume it will continue to improve exponentially? Professional gaming didn't exist anywhere near on the level it does today when Starcraft was released. Starcraft 2 is being "figured out" incredibly quickly on the professional level just because of the massive amount of resources being thrown at it. As far as development of the game in comparison to Brood War, at what point would you actually consider it fair to make the comparison? If you're just talking about how long a game has been out, you could theoretically always make this argument until the end of time. At some point you're going to have to be able to sit down and put the two side by side. Granted, I don't believe that time is yet, but it's definitely not going to take anywhere near 13 years... or even 4.
I think (assuming they switch) that 1-2 years after Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and all the other top end A Teamers switch would be a fair time.
I definitely don't think you can talk about how it matches up to Brood War until after you've seen Flash play it.
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People who say BW talent is wasted in SC2 are so wrong. Even the best SC2 players still make macro and micro mistakes. They have not even come close to perfect mechanics yet.
It's still not uncommon for most top players to 1a their entire army and have (for example) their infestors rush to their death.
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On January 10 2012 12:37 MrF wrote:
"I feel the need to say the same thing when everyone else says the same thing and the situation also remains the same."
that seems redundant
This whole conversation is redundant in itself.
People need to stop jumping to conclusions period
It's all about perspective.
[Some of us have been following RTS developments for ages. U.I.'s are nothing more than the rules of the game as all players are governed by it. How they choose to manipulate it is another story. It's a level playing field.] <-- This chunk belongs in the XX design thread. *sigh* - -
On January 10 2012 12:49 Zzoram wrote:
People who say BW talent is wasted in SC2 are so wrong. Even the best SC2 players still make macro and micro mistakes. They have not even come close to perfect mechanics yet.
It's still not uncommon for most top players to 1a their entire army and have (for example) their infestors rush to their death.
Some players certainly get lazy because they play right into the rulesets of the U.I. instead of finding better ways to manipulate it and find better posture.
I expect player's to focus more on their control groups in the months to come with HotS on the way. It will be crucial for players to make sure their units don't fall into bad formation, or else they will get fucked especially with the new units.
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I haven't been able to find this anywhere else on the site so maybe someone can tell me in this thread. I've heard that the S-class players in BW make upwards of 100-200k per year in salaries, but I've never heard how much they make in tournament winnings per year? If someone could give me an approximation that'd be great
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On January 10 2012 13:21 Muffinman53 wrote:I haven't been able to find this anywhere else on the site so maybe someone can tell me in this thread. I've heard that the S-class players in BW make upwards of 100-200k per year in salaries, but I've never heard how much they make in tournament winnings per year? If someone could give me an approximation that'd be great
Well there were 6 tournaments a year I think in BW (OSL/MSL not counting proleague). I believe the winner gets something like 25k-40k US dollars is what I believe I read somewhere.
So if you won 2 tournaments that would be 80k + whatever you make in salary. But yes the top tier bw players flash/jaedong and what not make 100k or so. I believe flash has a 5 year contract for 500k? Can't remember don't think it was that much a year but might be wrong.
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On January 10 2012 13:23 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 13:21 Muffinman53 wrote:I haven't been able to find this anywhere else on the site so maybe someone can tell me in this thread. I've heard that the S-class players in BW make upwards of 100-200k per year in salaries, but I've never heard how much they make in tournament winnings per year? If someone could give me an approximation that'd be great Well there were 6 tournaments a year I think in BW (OSL/MSL not counting proleague). I believe the winner gets something like 25k-40k US dollars is what I believe I read somewhere. So if you won 2 tournaments that would be 80k + whatever you make in salary. But yes the top tier bw players flash/jaedong and what not make 100k or so. I believe flash has a 5 year contract for 500k? Can't remember don't think it was that much a year but might be wrong.
Ahh great, thank you so much! So even if each tournament was 40k, that is roughly the same as winning a GSL if I'm not mistaken? When you include the money the foreign scene throws at SC2 tournaments, it sounds like if BW players could lockin a similar salary in SC2 there is already the same amount of tournament winnings to be made. Someone can correct me if I'm missing something.
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On January 10 2012 13:28 Muffinman53 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 13:23 blade55555 wrote:On January 10 2012 13:21 Muffinman53 wrote:I haven't been able to find this anywhere else on the site so maybe someone can tell me in this thread. I've heard that the S-class players in BW make upwards of 100-200k per year in salaries, but I've never heard how much they make in tournament winnings per year? If someone could give me an approximation that'd be great Well there were 6 tournaments a year I think in BW (OSL/MSL not counting proleague). I believe the winner gets something like 25k-40k US dollars is what I believe I read somewhere. So if you won 2 tournaments that would be 80k + whatever you make in salary. But yes the top tier bw players flash/jaedong and what not make 100k or so. I believe flash has a 5 year contract for 500k? Can't remember don't think it was that much a year but might be wrong. Ahh great, thank you so much! So even if each tournament was 40k, that is roughly the same as winning a GSL if I'm not mistaken? When you include the money the foreign scene throws at SC2 tournaments, it sounds like if BW players could lockin a similar salary in SC2 there is already the same amount of tournament winnings to be made. Someone can correct me if I'm missing something.
If a mass switch happened then I imagine they would bring OGN, KESPA and all their current sponsors and fans with them.
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Instead of just saying stuff. Look it up to double check if you aren't certain. It really isn't that hard to find. -_- You are close enough though.
We aren't left with very much anymore after MBC Game decided to shut down and players from three seperate teams were looking for new homes.
As a result we have a shortened PL format and the schedule isn't as fierce without the other network, teams and MBC tournament schedule. Things have definitely been toned down a bit, but the ratings are still fair. Nothing I wouldn't expect.
All I can say is wait and watch.
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i kind of agree with Magma. That, if the foreigners don't raise their game for the upcoming Koreans in SC2, the game will lose interest amongst international fans. As much as I love Flash, bisu, Jaedong, Stork. Those guys dominating MLG, IEG, IPL, GSL. Whatever new tournaments around the world will diminish interest. It is a sad thing to witness for the future. I really hope the foreigners step up to compete against the great korean plaers that upcoming
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On January 10 2012 13:34 chatuka wrote:
i kind of agree with Magma. That, if the foreigners don't raise their game for the upcoming Koreans in SC2, the game will lose interest amongst international fans. As much as I love Flash, bisu, Jaedong, Stork. Those guys dominating MLG, IEG, IPL, GSL. Whatever new tournaments around the world will diminish interest. It is a sad thing to witness for the future. I really hope the foreigners step up to compete against the great korean plaers that upcoming
Foreign players are going to have to reside in Korea in order to keep up. I could see foreign teams adding something like that in contracts. You want to play for us you have to commit, reside and train in Korea.
We need foreign players to keep the foreign interest as strong as it is now.
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Is there actually anything to back this up besides speculation and rumours?
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On January 10 2012 13:31 Seraphone wrote:
If a mass switch happened then I imagine they would bring OGN, KESPA and all their current sponsors and fans with them.
Things don't happen that way. It won't be a massive switch and you have no control over the fans. I'd call it a transition period if anything and even then I don't see BW being dropped like that.
Definitely would help when KeSPA and Blizzard strike a deal to start promoting SC2 to build it up more in Korea; however, that deal is late as hell and not everyone is going to buy into it. Shit happens.
magna,
Players already have to do that in order to keep up so to speak. ;/
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On January 10 2012 13:38 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 13:34 chatuka wrote:
i kind of agree with Magma. That, if the foreigners don't raise their game for the upcoming Koreans in SC2, the game will lose interest amongst international fans. As much as I love Flash, bisu, Jaedong, Stork. Those guys dominating MLG, IEG, IPL, GSL. Whatever new tournaments around the world will diminish interest. It is a sad thing to witness for the future. I really hope the foreigners step up to compete against the great korean plaers that upcoming Foreign players are going to have to reside in Korea in order to keep up. I could see foreign teams adding something like that in contracts. You want to play for us you have to commit, reside and train in Korea. We need foreign players to keep the foreign interest as strong as it is now.
Or foreign players will all just end up playing for Korean teams.
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On January 10 2012 13:39 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 13:31 Seraphone wrote:
If a mass switch happened then I imagine they would bring OGN, KESPA and all their current sponsors and fans with them. Things don't happen that way. It won't be a massive switch and you have no control over the fans. I'd call it a transition period if anything and even then I don't see BW being dropped like that. Definitely would help when KeSPA and Blizzard strike a deal to start promoting SC2 to build it up more in Korea; however, that deal is late as hell and not everyone is going to buy into it. Shit happens. magna, Players already have to do that in order to keep up so to speak. ;/
I think that's exactly how it will happen. KESPA will eventually announce that all Brood War leagues will now be Sc2.
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On January 10 2012 13:41 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 13:39 StarStruck wrote:On January 10 2012 13:31 Seraphone wrote:
If a mass switch happened then I imagine they would bring OGN, KESPA and all their current sponsors and fans with them. Things don't happen that way. It won't be a massive switch and you have no control over the fans. I'd call it a transition period if anything and even then I don't see BW being dropped like that. Definitely would help when KeSPA and Blizzard strike a deal to start promoting SC2 to build it up more in Korea; however, that deal is late as hell and not everyone is going to buy into it. Shit happens. magna, Players already have to do that in order to keep up so to speak. ;/ I think that's exactly how it will happen. KESPA will eventually announce that all Brood War leagues will now be Sc2.
All I can do is laugh. We agree to disagree.
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EPT
