EPTNaNiwa-GOM Controversy General Thread - Page 8
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We understand this is an issue that has led to a lot of opinions. Please remember above all to keep the discussion respectful and on topic. - This thread is specifically about NaNiwa and GOM and the controversy that occurred between them. It is not about IdrA and Sen in Code S, nor is it about any other players or tournaments. Pleas discuss that here. - This thread is not about the merits of the Blizzard Cup structure, or GOM's foreigner invite system. Please discuss that here. - Finally, this thread is not about Korean culture, Swedish culture, or any other ethnicity or group of people. Keep racism and cultural stereotypes out of this thread. Responsibility for keeping a thread constructive is primarily yours. Please keep that in mind. | ||
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CrappyHippo
Canada275 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On December 15 2011 12:55 Robinsa wrote: GOM can go and F themselves as far as I'm concerned. I'm never watching anything they produce again. Way to make an all korean league more Korean favored. I see that the top says it's not about racism but I surely think it is. MVP as a team has lost a my respect as well. I'll boo them out next time they show up in the west. You're saying the fact that his race wasn't taken into consideration in dealing out his punishment is racist? | ||
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critique
United States135 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:35 CrappyHippo wrote: GomTV's punishment is very reasonable IMO. Imagine comparing Naniwa's reckless action to a professional sport game, say NBA. At the end of the regular season, a team deliberately and very obviously throws a game cuz they won't have a spot in the playoff in very punishable by the committee. In fact, this never happend in NBA history. Are you serious? I can say definitively that you clearly do not follow the NBA in any way shape or form. Almost every lottery (non-playoff) team egregiously tanks at the end of every NBA season. It's so routine that NBA fans question the coach/GM of lottery teams that are not throwing games at the end of the year. This is expressly not punished by the commish, and a lot of NBA fans (myself included) were pissed that the tanking issue was not addressed in the new cba. You actually couldn't be more wrong: NBA teams throw games all. the. effing. time. | ||
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quickclickz
United States81 Posts
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roronoe
Canada1527 Posts
So they gave the seed but they didn't actually give the seed??? wtf?? Lying in order to make nice sounding official statements is not a good way to win community support. | ||
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deathzz
669 Posts
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eXwOn
Canada351 Posts
Of course there's more too it, and Gom tv understands the situation much better than me, so I respect their decision. | ||
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CrappyHippo
Canada275 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:57 critique wrote: Are you serious? I can say definitively that you clearly do not follow the NBA in any way shape or form. Almost every lottery (non-playoff) team egregiously tanks at the end of every NBA season. It's so routine that NBA fans question the coach/GM of lottery teams that are not throwing games at the end of the year. This is expressly not punished by the commish, and a lot of NBA fans (myself included) were pissed that the tanking issue was not addressed in the new cba. You actually couldn't be more wrong: NBA teams throw games all. the. effing. time. OK then, now I know I don't know NBA. | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:35 CrappyHippo wrote: GomTV's punishment is very reasonable IMO. Imagine comparing Naniwa's reckless action to a professional sport game, say NBA. At the end of the regular season, a team deliberately and very obviously throws a game cuz they won't have a spot in the playoff in very punishable by the committee. In fact, this never happend in NBA history. In starcraft 2, most players gets variable income from prize money+a fixed salary from team. In sports the team gets variable income from tickets sold and a fixed income from sponsorship deals. The NBA championship doesn't even have any prize money. Sports teams have incentive to play out seasonal games to sell tickets, players do not. In fact, they are better of not playing at all to not reveal their style of play or their strategies. Whether you like it or not, it's human nature to primarily act in its own interest. It's what modern economics is built upon* and systems that does not accommodate for that (like some sc2 tournaments) will always have problems with players not doing what they want. *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Choice_Theory | ||
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StyLeD
United States2965 Posts
That being said, if this were a Korean player, there would be a much less biased response from TL. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:57 critique wrote: Are you serious? I can say definitively that you clearly do not follow the NBA in any way shape or form. Almost every lottery (non-playoff) team egregiously tanks at the end of every NBA season. It's so routine that NBA fans question the coach/GM of lottery teams that are not throwing games at the end of the year. This is expressly not punished by the commish, and a lot of NBA fans (myself included) were pissed that the tanking issue was not addressed in the new cba. You actually couldn't be more wrong: NBA teams throw games all. the. effing. time. Hahhaah no one gives a shit about the end of season.  Even during the final minute of a deciding championship match, one of the Lakers decided to sit on the court instead of play. | ||
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synaptik
Canada644 Posts
1) he has to do the qualifiers instead of getting handouts 2) his GSL track record (0-10) 3) his gimmicky expand build has already been figured out by koreans the chances are slim. | ||
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Hipsv
135 Posts
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Copperhead
Canada97 Posts
I just like to say... who has never raged before? | ||
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ZergChief
Canada5 Posts
I really want to say something about this. I think GOMTV is 100% justified in doing this and that anyone defending Naniwa is being extremely ignorant. First of all, GOMTV is the EMPLOYER of players, that mean is that Naniwa in GSL is EMPLOYED by GOMTV who is effectively his boss in the organization. GOMTV provides contents produced by revenues from customers who pay to see good games. As such, in GSL, Naniwa has an OBLIGATION to follow GSL's wishes if he wants to continually be employed by this organization. How is this a hard concept? What job in the world can you purposely, willingly and OBVIOUSLY show extremely sub-par performance when your boss asks you to do something because you think its pointless? This game might not have value for Naniwa, but for GOMTV (Naniwa's boss) it is extremely important as the yearly finale! Sc2 isn't just a "game" to the players in GSL who play 8-12 hours a day, its a career that they give up their entire lives for. Its like spitting in the face of players who gave up everything to grind games nonstop (just like Naniwa) who would take Naniwa's position in a heartbeat. What Naniwa did is a disgrace! Imagine if you bought tickets to a game on a team that lost too many games to make it to the play-offs so they just dick around the field? Just imagine the implication of a World Cup Soccer match where the team with 3 losses that cannot advance to the next round decides that they're gonna just let the other team score and sit around doing nothing? Are people SERIOUSLY questioning why GOMTV decided to do this to Naniwa? Naniwa got off easy, if a Korean player did this, I would bet that it could've even been a permanent ban. This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen, people defending Naniwa for this kind of action. How can people say this is an overreaction? This is also a spit in Nestea's face, who apparently practiced very hard for this. It also wasn't just a regular season either, this was like the World Cup of GSL, it was the season closer for Gom who wanted to show an amazing tournament with the best players in the world. Professionalism is part of being a pro, I hope Naniwa learns from this and doesn't just think of this as an "overreaction" because it isn't! | ||
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peekn
United States1152 Posts
Well after reading it, I can see how this would be dishonorable, and I would agree. When you are a pro at something, like the GOM response stated, you have a certain level of dignity that you have to maintain and I don't think that he did with his actions. Even though in the west we don't care that much about honor and the things that are associated with it, it is a big deal in the east, and I completely agree with them and that ideal. Edit: I'm not sure how I think of Naniwa as a player now I don't think that I hate it anything but, definitely went down in my books not a big fan of players who early gg or just don't try. I mean you are getting paid to do this, should just stop trying when you think that it isn't worth it, you have a duty to your fans and to your sponsors. You have to remember this when you are playing something professionally. | ||
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kardinal
Sweden154 Posts
Even though in the west we don't care that much about honor and the things that are associated with it, it is a big deal in the east, and I completely agree with them and that ideal. Edit: I'm not sure how I think of Naniwa as a player now I don't think that I hate it anything but, definitely went down in my books not a big fan of players who early gg or just don't try. I mean you are getting paid to do this, should just stop trying when you think that it isn't worth it, you have a duty to your fans and to your sponsors. You have to remember this when you are playing something professionally. You seem to be under the mistaken belief that "eastern honor" is the same as your idea of honor. Clue. It's not. It's only about saving face, it's certainly not about what's right or wrong or just. I say this with full knowledge of the culture being of korean descent and still having family there. Nani made GOM lose face in front of their korean viewers and had to be slapped down hard. As a swede I find this kind of reasoning is disgusting and unprofessional. | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
On December 15 2011 16:01 kardinal wrote: You seem to be under the mistaken belief that "eastern honor" is the same as your idea of honor. Clue. It's not. It's only about saving face, it's certainly not about what's right or wrong or just. I say this with full knowledge of the culture being of korean descent and still having family there. Nani made GOM lose face in front of their korean viewers and had to be slapped down hard. lol please. Saving face? yeah that's kinda important. To some people This case, it was about professionalism. pure and simple. a lot of koreans do have incredibly high standard regarding professionalism. WTF saving face has to do with Naniwa punishment? it seems like you dont know anything about how korean business work. and stop pretending like you know all about korean culture. Because you sound like you barely know the surface it and try to paint it in negative tone. | ||
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Govou
Canada1072 Posts
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Jeity
99 Posts
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