EPTNaNiwa-GOM Controversy General Thread - Page 6
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We understand this is an issue that has led to a lot of opinions. Please remember above all to keep the discussion respectful and on topic. - This thread is specifically about NaNiwa and GOM and the controversy that occurred between them. It is not about IdrA and Sen in Code S, nor is it about any other players or tournaments. Pleas discuss that here. - This thread is not about the merits of the Blizzard Cup structure, or GOM's foreigner invite system. Please discuss that here. - Finally, this thread is not about Korean culture, Swedish culture, or any other ethnicity or group of people. Keep racism and cultural stereotypes out of this thread. Responsibility for keeping a thread constructive is primarily yours. Please keep that in mind. | ||
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Mainland
Canada551 Posts
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
Thats all not even considering the fact that there was no explicit rule and explicit punishment stated beforehand, which takes away any credibility of GOMs decision imo. With all the shitty matchfixing and stuff that has been going on in the korean scene with minimal / no repercussions (Intentional losing in WCG, splitting prize money and fixing the finals etc..) its just a ridiculous double standard I see in korean esports all too often. They cetrtainly care about good games or professionalism less than I do, they just pretend to and I dont like that. All we get from this incident and how it unfolded is less transparency, more show and bigotry. We already got some of it in form of Naniwas apology. Anyone actually thinking this is Nani feels about it must be out of their minds. He bent over in order to retain his chances of getting into GSL - im pretty certain his personal pov of the situation hasnt changed much at all. | ||
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Pokedude1013
116 Posts
Oh esports. And anyone who claims that there is a huge conspiracy to keep Nani out of Code S is delusional. You know, I would have been more satisfied if GomTV just came out and said that we needed to punish Nani for his actions so we kicked him out. Then people would stop making stuff up. This recent incident for me has bumped the eSports community to the same level as the college american football community, defending the hell out of someone even though they were clearly in the wrong because you're a fan. Maybe one day we'll upgrade to the professional football community, where we just flame each other for liking different regional teams Oh wait. edit: and to the above poster; the Korean game organizers does not tolerate game throwing, in fact they have perma-banned players for doing so. It is clearly not accepted. I like how you think that the actions of some bad eggs represent 'korean esports'; who's the bigot here? | ||
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Cade)Flayer
United Kingdom279 Posts
Nobody can complain about the punishment. It's a fair warning and he could of got worse. | ||
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battyone
United States180 Posts
On December 15 2011 10:32 Pokedude1013 wrote: I love that some people are so obsessed with defending foreigners' actions that they make generalizations about Asian culture to the point where the OP actually has to state that no racism will be tolerated in this thread :p Oh esports. And anyone who claims that there is a huge conspiracy to keep Nani out of Code S is delusional. You know, I would have been more satisfied if GomTV just came out and said that we needed to punish Nani for his actions so we kicked him out. Then people would stop making stuff up. This recent incident for me has bumped the eSports community to the same level as the college american football community, defending the hell out of someone even though they were clearly in the wrong because you're a fan. Maybe one day we'll upgrade to the professional football community, where we just flame each other for liking different regional teams Oh wait. While that is a disclaimer, I am not seeing some giant "there is a conspiracy against Naniwa thing" so much as there is a giant "GOMTV said one thing up to this point, then this happens and the entire story is different and we are to accept that." My biggest problem is GOM denying that Naniwa had already earned a Code S spot after Providence when according to posts on GOMs official site (http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291) there was a framework on how to determine who gets the Code S seed, and Naniwa was the person from that tournament to see all of that. Before you take a general swipe at the community for being xenophobic, look beyond that for the real issue here which is that yes Naniwa messed up but he did not break any rules directly, and he had a Code S seed that GOM is now saying he never had. I do not think highly of Naniwa right now, but I think that if anything the rules need to be clarified significantly so that actions don't have to have so much smoke and mirrors surrounding them. | ||
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FSKi
United States901 Posts
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fire_brand
Canada1123 Posts
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
1) Nani loses 3 games which hurt him. Slayers Proxy's Thor rush wrecks him. He thinks he's dead as the Thor stomps his FF, thinks he's alive (compounding the pain) after he lasers the 2 thors ("maybe i can get 2 and 2 record--maybe i can advance!", then dies becuz terran units are rubber. 2) Wrecked, he does a probe rush. 3) Community responds. (kill bill flashback--savior match fixing--) a) Kors amuse themselves by righteously denouncing nani. Becuz of the match fixing, the fire has tinder. [Really, there is no connection--in fact, nani proves by his honest refusal to play the game that meant nothing he's nothing like savior who pretended to try in games to fool fans-- absolute opposite!!] Kors have fun. b) Foreigners respond as well. About thirty people honestly care. The rest enjoy the controversy and being contrary [as always, this leads to one side of the debate gaining traction, then the other, and so in without good posts]. 4) Gom responds. As is usual in the sc community, they take themselves to seriously. They take Nani's code S spot. That's a philosophically perplexing and profound statement. Y? Becuz apparently Nani never had a code S spot. They took back something he never had. I wonder why they had announce such a thing? So interesting. If the press releases by MLG and GOM are to be trusted, Nani had the spot. 5) Nann apologizes. He knew people would be angry, but it was so fun to probe rush. The game was worth nothing, and drawing attention to that fact by treating it as such was a way of lashing out at GOM and feeling better. I think Poe wrote a short story about this at some point in time. Just a miscalculation. He expected people to be angry but powerless to do anything. That would've been cool. Lesson learned, anyway, so he pacifies his team. He talks on skype and they write something nice. | ||
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Necrophantasia
Japan299 Posts
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Necrophantasia
Japan299 Posts
Then GSL did their format change and added two sponsor invites, but due to the mlg-GSL exchange program they were still obligated to get Naniwa his spot. So in effect the first invite, meant to be given on merit, was all but guaranteed to Naniwa. Unfortunately Naniwa had to pull this nonsense and GSL removed his invite. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On December 15 2011 10:38 ASNheat wrote: The Naniwa effect: I got probe rushed three times yesterday on ladder........ yeah, no prize money on ladder, so...  | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
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Pokedude1013
116 Posts
On December 15 2011 10:36 battyone wrote: While that is a disclaimer, I am not seeing some giant "there is a conspiracy against Naniwa thing" so much as there is a giant "GOMTV said one thing up to this point, then this happens and the entire story is different and we are to accept that." My biggest problem is GOM denying that Naniwa had already earned a Code S spot after Providence when according to posts on GOMs official site (http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291) there was a framework on how to determine who gets the Code S seed, and Naniwa was the person from that tournament to see all of that. Before you take a general swipe at the community for being xenophobic, look beyond that for the real issue here which is that yes Naniwa messed up but he did not break any rules directly, and he had a Code S seed that GOM is now saying he never had. I do not think highly of Naniwa right now, but I think that if anything the rules need to be clarified significantly so that actions don't have to have so much smoke and mirrors surrounding them. One would think that 'act professional' is an understood rule. Anyone who does not 'act professionally' may be removed from the tournament. Quite simple actually. Throwing a game, regardless of if you think it is pointless or not, is unprofessional And no, I'm not 'taking a general swipe at the community for being xenophobic' notice how I said 'some people' Here I'll underline it in my quoted post | ||
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battyone
United States180 Posts
On December 15 2011 10:44 Pokedude1013 wrote: One would think that 'act professional' is an understood rule. Anyone who does not 'act professionally' may be removed from the tournament. Quite simple actually. Throwing a game, regardless of if you think it is pointless or not, is unprofessional And no, I'm not 'taking a general swipe at the community for being xenophobic' notice how I said 'some people' Here I'll underline it in my quoted post Not to mince words too much but I've taken the liberty to underline where you made sweeping generalizations about the eSports community. So yes you started off with focus, then as you held on that trigger of "Foreigners think Koreans are acting unfairly against a Foreigner" your bullets kinda sprayed out in all directions. This is not going to be productive back and forth I can tell already, but even then why are you not addressing the entire point that Naniwa already had earned his Code S spot? *EDIT -- Also if Act Professional was critertia there'd be a LOT of players on both sides who have overstepped that. At GSL and MLG and other events as well. Why is Naniwa being deprived something he earned for actions at a different event that happens to be ran by the same people. More importantly, why are they trying to shift the story to make it appear that he never had it in the first place? | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
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C0M
United States3 Posts
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Khanz
France214 Posts
What, in my opinion, DoA significantly added is that GOMtv director himself was emotionally caught by Naniwa, he(Director of GOMtv) liked him(NaniWa) "more than others?". It's a major mistake to be driven by its own feelings when you're in such position, and nobody can do anything about it, ofcourse. That is something very important to know, not that my life is at stake, but as Tyler said, again, there was no specific rule about it and I'm sure Naniwa would have thought twice before making this move not knowing it could go this far; eventhough he said the opposite BEFORE gomtv statement. Basically, it feels like they do whatever they wish to do and nobody can do a thing. Naniwa legally speaking didn't break any rules from what I've read and I'm not here for the sake of arguing this is truly shocking. | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
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ScythedBlade
308 Posts
So wait, it's something honorable in an Asian culture very near Korea. SO SAY WHAT? | ||
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Thrax
Canada1755 Posts
On December 15 2011 11:11 ScythedBlade wrote: The hilarious thing is Naniwa requested to do a professional thing: Forfeit the game. But he wasn't allowed ... So wait, it's something honorable in an Asian culture very near Korea. SO SAY WHAT? Naniwa himself said he did not ask to forfeit the game, he did not talk to GOM before the Nestea game. | ||
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