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We understand this is an issue that has led to a lot of opinions. Please remember above all to keep the discussion respectful and on topic. - This thread is specifically about NaNiwa and GOM and the controversy that occurred between them. It is not about IdrA and Sen in Code S, nor is it about any other players or tournaments. Pleas discuss that here.- This thread is not about the merits of the Blizzard Cup structure, or GOM's foreigner invite system. Please discuss that here.- Finally, this thread is not about Korean culture, Swedish culture, or any other ethnicity or group of people. Keep racism and cultural stereotypes out of this thread. Responsibility for keeping a thread constructive is primarily yours. Please keep that in mind. |
Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
I think the points that matter are
a) he was paid to deliver four matches and only delivered three
b) he played in front of a big audience and thoughtlessly disappointed them
Both comes down to that while the match was not relevant for him it was relevant for other people. He has the fortune to get paid for his beloved hobby which not many people can claim.
Musicians are another example for those people. Imagine a band getting invited to a special show for the best musicians and they don't get the price that they hoped to get but later on they are scheduled to perform live on stage. Nobody would argue that it would be okay if they just mumbled something incomprehensible into the mic and leave the stage because they are disappointed and because that performance can't help them win the Award anymore. And why? Because there are fans who paid money to see them and because the hosts paid them to perform. It would be no surprise if that host decided to put them on the B stage instead of the main stage during the next festivals.
The Naniwa situation is not much different. What he did was pure egoism. He did not think about the fans. He did not think about his employer. And the employer rightfully punished him.
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Thank god there is one thread now
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On December 15 2011 09:46 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
Thank god there is one thread now
lol. everyone is posting in the other threads still, and this thread is kind of dead though. =)
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On December 15 2011 09:42 boxturtle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:51 Paladia wrote:Interestingly enough GOM are now making things up to save face, making me lose all respect for them. Naniwa earned a spot in Code S yet now they claim he didn't? Even the official MLG website says he earned a code S spot. http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascension/"Naniwa [..] earned a seat in Code S." In my opinion, GOM are getting quite desperate to save face here. First they tried to play the "he broke a rule card", but as people realized he didn't break any rules. So now they are trying the "Well, he didn't break any rules, but he wasn't even invited to begin with, so it is no penalty.", card. Obviously, this doesn't work very well when it has already been announced that he has earned a spot. No, what you're saying is absolutely wrong. GOM has no reason to justify itself to you, as you can't/did not bother to read in the first place and any further statements would be wasted on an illiterate person/ignored the same way their prior statements have. Check out the writting, Gom-MLG exchange lasted til December. 2nd place seed was for Blizzard Cup. I'm surprised that GOM gave a second place seed for 2nd place at Providence anyways, I would've thought a 1st place IPL (idra)/1st place NASL (puma) would bring in more viewers. No 2nd place WCG/Dreamhack winner were invited, I guess MLG just got preferential treatment, being GOM's primary partner. I was happy to see him even at Blizzard Cup, I was then absolutely disappointed by his throw. You do realize that we, the fans, asked for the "meaningless matches" because we never got to see who was better during AoL2? Leenock and Sage were elim'd with 1-2, and fans wanted them to have a chance at 2-2 to show a good record and display their skill comparative to their group.
IPL winner was there z.z Korea does not support NASL.
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Regardless of whether or not GOM is justified in Naniwa not participating in GSL Code S this up coming season I wish people would stop saying "They decided not to invite Naniwa." That is not what happened. What happened is GOM changed their format and used that as an excuse to renege on the MLG-GSL exchange program. The graphic showing the system isn't really accurate. There should only be one "Code S Seed" and one "MLG Pro Circuit" seed.
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On December 15 2011 09:56 Jonoman92 wrote:
Regardless of whether or not GOM is justified in Naniwa not participating in GSL Code S this up coming season I wish people would stop saying "They decided not to invite Naniwa." That is not what happened. What happened is GOM changed their format and used that as an excuse to renege on the MLG-GSL exchange program. The graphic showing the system isn't really accurate. There should only be one "Code S Seed" and one "MLG Pro Circuit" seed.
the graphic has been up since late October without change
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On December 15 2011 09:45 Fenrax wrote:
The Naniwa situation is not much different. What he did was pure egoism. He did not think about the fans. He did not think about his employer. And the employer rightfully punished him.
I'm of the position that GOM is more in the wrong in their severe reaction that Naniwa. I could agree some action should be taken, whether a fine or some sort of reprimand. But this an absolutely huge punishment.
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Who cares anymore. Naniwa admitted he was wrong and apologized to the general SC2 community. GOM issued an explanation of the Code S spot. End of drama.
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On December 15 2011 09:57 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 09:56 Jonoman92 wrote:
Regardless of whether or not GOM is justified in Naniwa not participating in GSL Code S this up coming season I wish people would stop saying "They decided not to invite Naniwa." That is not what happened. What happened is GOM changed their format and used that as an excuse to renege on the MLG-GSL exchange program. The graphic showing the system isn't really accurate. There should only be one "Code S Seed" and one "MLG Pro Circuit" seed. the graphic has been up since late October without change
I realize that, but it was not clear in the beginning. Despite saying there were 2 Code S seeds, there was actually only one available since one would naturally go to the person who placed highest @ the previous MLG Pro Circuit event who was not Code S already.
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On December 15 2011 09:58 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 09:45 Fenrax wrote:
The Naniwa situation is not much different. What he did was pure egoism. He did not think about the fans. He did not think about his employer. And the employer rightfully punished him. I'm of the position that GOM is more in the wrong in their sever reaction that Naniwa. I could agree some action should be taken, whether a fine or some sort of reprimand. But this an absolutely huge punishment.
How is this a huge punishment?? He lost a Code S spot. He's not banned for life. He made a mistake so now he has to requalify again. This gives him another chance to prove his skills. Stop making drama.
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On December 15 2011 10:00 ninjamyst wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 09:58 Jonoman92 wrote:On December 15 2011 09:45 Fenrax wrote:
The Naniwa situation is not much different. What he did was pure egoism. He did not think about the fans. He did not think about his employer. And the employer rightfully punished him. I'm of the position that GOM is more in the wrong in their sever reaction that Naniwa. I could agree some action should be taken, whether a fine or some sort of reprimand. But this an absolutely huge punishment. How is this a huge punishment?? He lost a Code S spot. He's not banned for life. He made a mistake so now he has to requalify again. This gives him another chance to prove his skills. Stop making drama.
going to korea is a huge investment. now they are saying he cant play in code s. so he has to wait a hell of a long time before he has a shot at real money. that is a huge punishment.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37118 Posts
A much needed thread!!!
Thank you for this summary/clear up
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On December 15 2011 10:00 ninjamyst wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 09:58 Jonoman92 wrote:On December 15 2011 09:45 Fenrax wrote:
The Naniwa situation is not much different. What he did was pure egoism. He did not think about the fans. He did not think about his employer. And the employer rightfully punished him. I'm of the position that GOM is more in the wrong in their sever reaction that Naniwa. I could agree some action should be taken, whether a fine or some sort of reprimand. But this an absolutely huge punishment. How is this a huge punishment?? He lost a Code S spot. He's not banned for life. He made a mistake so now he has to requalify again. This gives him another chance to prove his skills. Stop making drama.
I don't understand. If you're this dumb how did you make your way to TL?
User was warned for this post
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Thanks for the summary. As a whole i think their is a lot of behind the scenes garbage that results in my not really wanting to watch naniwa games in more seeing as how he doesn't care that much.
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I think GOM's actions will clearly set a precedent for future professional behavior that will set the status quo for all major events. These players need to take what the do seriously because they are no longer just players but also entertainers (I tune in to watch high caliber sc2 games not watch some kid win money). Props to GOM for squashing this.
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I think the actions are justified however I feel cheated when MLG plastered all over the stream and broadcast that the winner gets a code S seed when in fact that is not what happens according to GOM. I doubt MLG or GOM is trying to be malicious, however a statement needs to be made in regards to this.
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Okay. I see how Naniwa made a childish decision. How GOM basically said if he doesn't want to try then he shouldn't be in the same league as the rest of the people who try hard every day (not saying Naniwa doesn't practice tremendously). But To be able to play on a national stage, with hundreds of thousands of anxiously waiting fans who want nothing more than to see Naniwa vs NesTea, is a tremendous privilege, whether it's GOM, MLG, DreamHack, and what have you.
And if I'm not mistaken, GOM didn't "Ban" Naniwa from GSL, They just rescinded the Invitational spot right? He could still play his way into Code S Again correct?
This is basically just a PR nightmare for everyone sparked from a guy who let his Ego and Pride take over at the wrong time.
Regardless of how a tournament operates, If you're able to play a "Game" in front of thousands of people for money and fame, You should be happy to go out there for one night and play for Guts and Glory. Am I right?
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12762578
I'm linking this over here because it links to http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291 which says (Emphasis mine)
Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by the GSL.
Leenock won MLG Providence, a 2011 Pro circuit event after MLG Columbus, but already had a Code S spot. Naniwa came 2nd at MLG Providence, a 2011 Pro Circuit event after MLG Columbus, so according to this he would be awarded Code S status for that performance. Now yes Naniwa made a huge HUGE mistake, and acted poorly. I would be happier if GOM came out and said "We took away Naniwa's Code S spot because of his poor behavior" instead of saying "Naniwa was never in Code S in the first place. He only had an opportunity to get Code S from Blizzard Cup." I agree that Naniwa did wrong but I also feel strongly that organizations need to keep their word, and if something like this happens not just pretend that it was some other way around that makes their decision (no Naniwa in Code S) easier.
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On December 15 2011 10:22 battyone wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12762578 I'm linking this over here because it links to http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291 which says (Emphasis mine) Show nested quote +
Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by the GSL.
Leenock won MLG Providence, a 2011 Pro circuit event after MLG Columbus, but already had a Code S spot. Naniwa came 2nd at MLG Providence, a 2011 Pro Circuit event after MLG Columbus, so according to this he would be awarded Code S status for that performance. Now yes Naniwa made a huge HUGE mistake, and acted poorly. I would be happier if GOM came out and said "We took away Naniwa's Code S spot because of his poor behavior" instead of saying "Naniwa was never in Code S in the first place. He only had an opportunity to get Code S from Blizzard Cup." I agree that Naniwa did wrong but I also feel strongly that organizations need to keep their word, and if something like this happens not just pretend that it was some other way around that makes their decision (no Naniwa in Code S) easier.
Naniwa said on LO3 that GOM never told him he got a spot while MLG did say he got it. So there is some huge miscommunication going on.
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On December 15 2011 10:24 Kieofire wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 10:22 battyone wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12762578 I'm linking this over here because it links to http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/65291 which says (Emphasis mine)
Pro Circuit Players Competing in the GSL
At MLG Columbus, the Top 3 non-Korean finishers will each be placed into GSL Code A.
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
Code A status will be awarded to the next 3 highest placing non-Korean players.
If Code S status is awarded to a Korean player, Code A status also will be awarded to the 4th highest placing non-Korean player.
All travel and accommodation expenses for these players will be provided by the GSL.
Leenock won MLG Providence, a 2011 Pro circuit event after MLG Columbus, but already had a Code S spot. Naniwa came 2nd at MLG Providence, a 2011 Pro Circuit event after MLG Columbus, so according to this he would be awarded Code S status for that performance. Now yes Naniwa made a huge HUGE mistake, and acted poorly. I would be happier if GOM came out and said "We took away Naniwa's Code S spot because of his poor behavior" instead of saying "Naniwa was never in Code S in the first place. He only had an opportunity to get Code S from Blizzard Cup." I agree that Naniwa did wrong but I also feel strongly that organizations need to keep their word, and if something like this happens not just pretend that it was some other way around that makes their decision (no Naniwa in Code S) easier. Naniwa said on LO3 that GOM never told him he got a spot while MLG did say he got it. So there is some huge miscommunication going on.
I know Naniwa said that but he is also in pure PR mode and is trying to not see this spiral further and further out of control. He agrees that he did a bad thing, he accepts the punishment he was given, and he does not want this to become a bigger issue than it already is. (At least that is how I see it.) I would really be interested in hearing what MLG has to say about this entire situation.
*EDIT -- wow that got mangled from notepad to here 
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EPT
