EPTNaNiwa-GOM Controversy General Thread - Page 13
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We understand this is an issue that has led to a lot of opinions. Please remember above all to keep the discussion respectful and on topic. - This thread is specifically about NaNiwa and GOM and the controversy that occurred between them. It is not about IdrA and Sen in Code S, nor is it about any other players or tournaments. Pleas discuss that here. - This thread is not about the merits of the Blizzard Cup structure, or GOM's foreigner invite system. Please discuss that here. - Finally, this thread is not about Korean culture, Swedish culture, or any other ethnicity or group of people. Keep racism and cultural stereotypes out of this thread. Responsibility for keeping a thread constructive is primarily yours. Please keep that in mind. | ||
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wetcraft
Philippines12 Posts
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:09 VoirDire wrote: Anti-social personality disorder is the disorder commonly associated with psychopaths. It's characterized by (1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest (2) deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure (3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead (4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults (5) reckless disregard for safety of self or others (6) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations (7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another. lol that's like almost every guy I have ever known, some points more than others of course... | ||
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Soma.bokforlag
Sweden448 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:50 Hexxed wrote: It is true. Have you seen the video of Nal-Ra disqualified for accidentally pausing a game during a Kespa match? Naniwa is not in his home country. He is in korea. It is by their rules he has to abide. He should have been more aware that they are taking this seriously and he should too. Here's the video of Nal_ra disqualified. the question is, is this something we should aim for? should we just say "thats how they do things in korea" or should we speak out when we think something is wrong? | ||
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Eternalmisfit
United States643 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:50 Ponchey wrote: This may be deviating a bit from the main discussion. But someone on Gosugamers.net posted what claimed to be a translation of a PlayXP interview with the Blizzard Cup RO6 players, specifically asking about Naniwa being out of Code S. According to that (unconfirmed) source, MC had this to say: >MC: He did not deserve it. Code S is for the best progamers in the world. I do not see Naniwa as a progamer. I see him as a little boy. A statement I think is particularly interesting, since MC himself earned his Code S spot the same way Naniwa did (or in fact didn't, according to GOM). he then goes on to claim Idra and Sen are unworthy, and that he will "thumbs down" them out of Code S. Is there an official translation of these interviews? Considering that the last mistranslation lead to 200 page shit-storm, please post some source so that it can verified before starting a discussion on something like this. Otherwise, it will fuel into drama and can potentially lead another 200 pages of craptastic, circular pointless arguments. | ||
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
 i dont even think this punishment can be justified, but what is done is done, good luck to him in the future | ||
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 16 2011 01:23 Soma.bokforlag wrote: the question is, is this something we should aim for? should we just say "thats how they do things in korea" or should we speak out when we think something is wrong? In a way, I like that approach better than MLG's "lets not enforce the no chatting in game rule". If your rules say that a player isn't allowed to pause, then yes a player should lose the game if he pauses, even accidentally. If the rules say that a player isn't allowed to chat in game then, yes, he should lose for chatting in game. I don't think this is really relevant to NaNiwa's situation, though. He broke an unwritten code of honour rather than a black on white rule, so its a different matter entirely. | ||
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Ponchey
Sweden89 Posts
On December 16 2011 01:27 Eternalmisfit wrote: Considering that the last mistranslation lead to 200 page shit-storm, please post some source so that it can verified before starting a discussion on something like this. Otherwise, it will fuel into drama and can potentially lead another 200 pages of craptastic, circular pointless arguments. Well, yes I am aware of that, hence my use of the words "claimed", "unconfirmed" and asking for an official translation. EDIT: here is the gosugamers page, comment #35 http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/news/18072-naniwa-ejected-from-gsl-january-idra-and-sen-with-code-s-spots#comments | ||
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doobscraft
United States27 Posts
The fact that he probe rushed, that wasn't the issue in my eyes. When the camera shot turned to him, he is making it blatantly obvious that he doesn't care, to the extreme that one of his hands isn't on the keyboard. On a certain level the whole scene WAS funny-- If you do something to be funny or edgy, you should be prepared for the fact that you could piss someone off. This particular stunt happened to insult the people who worked hard to make SC2 entertaining and fulfilling for viewers, and people who PLANNED the tournament to include "meaningless games". Furthermore, the event organizers might ACTUALLY LIKE these meaningless games because players could do more novel and entertaining builds and strategies without having too much to lose. Now they don't want to invite him to their next tournament. That's a far cry from being banned for life. I like Naniwa and wish him the best. The best thing he can do is take his punishment in the most humble possible way and be more considerate next time. I think the world will forgive him. | ||
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.Mystic
Canada486 Posts
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Kirika
United Kingdom17 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:41 NMx.StyX wrote: Read DoA's post, its a must. Explains everything clearly even for the simple minded! Seconding this, I just cannot believe how eloquent that guy is in text. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On December 16 2011 01:23 Soma.bokforlag wrote: the question is, is this something we should aim for? should we just say "thats how they do things in korea" or should we speak out when we think something is wrong? The thing is, it's specified in kespa's rules. That's why nal_ra got disqualified. Same for killer. But there is no rules about 'no probes rush'. | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
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omooswald
Germany2 Posts
no gsl ticket for next season for me ... | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On December 16 2011 02:59 Kirika wrote: Seconding this, I just cannot believe how eloquent that guy is in text. What page is it on? | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
OP | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
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Skiblet
South Africa206 Posts
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On December 16 2011 03:41 omooswald wrote: I see an emo-rage from both sides ... but only side apologizing for it ... no gsl ticket for next season for me ... That is also what has been bothering me a lot about the whole situation, I have read pretty much every single thread on that matter yet I have not commented, and I feel like this statement shows a bit how I feel about it. It is undeniable to me that Naniwa was in the wrong, to what extent was he in the wrong I dont know, Its hard to blame him for playing a meaningless game when youre incredibly titled, but at the same time since he was on a large stage in Korea he should have probably played it. Now, I dont care to what extent Naniwa was wrong because we actually got excuses coming personnaly from him and also from his team clearly explaining their point of view on the matter and closing it for their side. When it comes to GOM though, all we got to me is an explanation of the situation according to their own perspective, without even aknowledging the fact that there was also some mistakes made on their side. Everyone on this site seems to believe that Korea should account for something more and we should be respectful going there (dont get me wrong, im not in disagreement with that), but why is it acceptable for a korean business to post on a foreigner site and not aknowledge the foreigners point of view. There are so much questions left open like how are the new, undisclosed rules for 2012 a good reason to modify the procedure with MLG in 2011. There was not a single point on which GOM aknowledged that they might, and just might be in the wrong, it was simply a wall of text explaining their point of view and why their point of view is the only one that should be followed. I find this whole situation rather annoying because as much as I am tired to read about it (or am I), it just seems like GOM hasnt given us what would be necessary to close the debate. | ||
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redemption
United States112 Posts
If I may add, Coca was already in the round of 16 when he forfeited his spot. Furthermore, he's not allowed to compete in any tournaments until his team deems him "ready" (whatever that means). Naniwa's "invitation" to the next season's code S was merely revoked, and he's not banned from anything. So in comparison, it's not even that bad. If anything, I think the punishment could be harsher to mirror how hard Coca got owned. | ||
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Drae
70 Posts
The idea of a dead rubber is not a new issue in sports. Hence the term. Many sports use round robin formats, or series, and there are often games that have to be played which mean little. But they still have to be played. Fans who pay to see the dead rubber, leagues who organize, sponsors, businesses who pay for commercials. All sound reasons, and all apply to SC2. I have never, in my life seen a professional athlete or a sporting team throw away a game in a dead rubber situation in the way that Naniwa did. It is the sporting equivalent of running around the field whilst having a tantrum, and kicking the ball / whatever into your own goal / endzone / whatever. It is unthinkable that a professional athlete of any calibre would act in this fashion, even in a dead rubber. It is even more unthinkable that if such a thing happened, that fellow athletes or commentators would not think a very harsh punishment is appropriate. Naniwa was paid to play the 4th game. It was a dead rubber, but it was his job to play that game, and he did not. If he did not want to to be paid to play in a tournament where he might have to play out a dead rubber, he should not have accepted the job. He has been punished by GOM, who obviously want their players to act professionally. I would say that GOM have acted as the must, if they wish their league to be taken seriously. Beyond GOM, if SC2, and eSports in general wants to be taken seriously, and be regarded as an actual sport, then the players must act professionally. And that means doing the job you are paid to do, and not having a tantrum when things dont go your way. | ||
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