EPTNaNiwa-GOM Controversy General Thread - Page 11
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We understand this is an issue that has led to a lot of opinions. Please remember above all to keep the discussion respectful and on topic. - This thread is specifically about NaNiwa and GOM and the controversy that occurred between them. It is not about IdrA and Sen in Code S, nor is it about any other players or tournaments. Pleas discuss that here. - This thread is not about the merits of the Blizzard Cup structure, or GOM's foreigner invite system. Please discuss that here. - Finally, this thread is not about Korean culture, Swedish culture, or any other ethnicity or group of people. Keep racism and cultural stereotypes out of this thread. Responsibility for keeping a thread constructive is primarily yours. Please keep that in mind. | ||
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H1STORY
Canada35 Posts
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loladin
Norway184 Posts
1. The tournament setup was faulty. 2. Naniwa was wrong. 3. Naniwa apologised for his actions. 4. GOM should have apologised for their tourment setup. 5. GOM, Quantic and Naniwa should have worked out their differences behind the scenes and come to some sort of understanding, perhaps a fine, or an official warning, or something like that. Revoking the Code S Invite (or Seed as 99% of the Community thought it was) is going taking the punishment way, way beyond the "crime". | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
I am sorry, but then what is the point of this thread then? What is the point of discussion, where one point of view is banned from the beginning in pursuit of political corectness? This situation is a blatant manifestation of Korean cultural bias. Saying so is not racism or stereotyping. Denying the fact that people that have been raised in different cultures approach given situation with a different preexisting bias, because their ethical structure, which is the base for any non-data-driven decision, is different, is superificial to say the least. I honestly think that the whole situation can be summarized by "Koreans think differently, we can either learn to live with that or make our own e-sport scene independently". Continuing with the willfull ingorance of differences in basic thinking process between people raised in euro-american and south korean background (note, I am not saying "Koreans and white dudes", it is not about appearance, but how one was being raised) will only lead to more abursd drama. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:59 H1STORY wrote: I think GOM was ignorant to ban Naniwa if anyone seen the semi finals of Blizzard Cup tonight you would of seen that MVP pretty much through the last two games against MMA. The matches lasted around 10-14 minutes game 2-3 and GOMTV wont punish MVP for pretty much throwing the last two games And here we go, another one late to the party. 1. GOM did not ban Naniwa, they revoked his invitation to Code S. 2. A game lasting 10 minutes is a game. Naniwa boxed workers, a-moved, then removed hands from keyboard. DON'T compare the two sitations since there's basically no similarity at all. | ||
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brentsen
1252 Posts
More important is the fact that Naniwa asked to forfeit the game and was denied. So he knew exactly that they wanted him to play the game and that it would probaly cause drama. Under this circumstances the punishment seems much more reasonable. | ||
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CingCoCo
Germany20 Posts
In my oppinion they simply should have skipped the match and went on with an exciting Polt vs MMA match for the possible 3 way tie. Matter of fact I felt like GOM is stealing my time in forcing me to wait for that match. Also mind anybody telling me if there EVER was a realy good match where nothing was at stake? I certainly cant. Further I actually thought it was hilarious to just probe rush to throw the game. Of course this will only work once because everybody from then on will be credited as lazy - irresponsible - or whatever for throwing a game. And because he dumped a completely non sense game hes now being thrown out of Code S? And they act like he wasnt even seeded? As far as I remember there has been no excuse to the rule that MLG winner takes a Code S spot and if the winner already got one the 2nd place finisher will take it (and so on) so I dont realy understand their argument of him just being considered for a Code S spot. To me it seems like GOM simply was pissed because Naniwa acted that way after asking GOM whether he may forfeit or not and GOM declined. So what to do? Right make an example. Of course they have the power to do that. The guidlines this is based on are not realy clear to me (-> read LiquidTylers statement) and i agree that its just tough to realy understand why they punished him that harshly. What realy makes me sad about this is the fact that there are just few foreigner who actually have the needed skill and the desire right now to compete in GSL. Besides Huk maybe Naniwa and Idra are the only non push over guys. Im not saying Naniwa realy is Code S material but he in my oppinion is still better than most others. So what they basically do is they substitute the best candidate with a worse player therefore giving us a worse product. Because of this and the draconic ruling i decided to not get another seasonpass for GSL. I bought the all up till this point - for every tournament - but not anymore. Im realy not sattisfied with the way they handled this. They just used their power harshly to make a "if u dont follow our rules youre f**ked" statement. Regarding Naniwas behavior Id like to say he seems to be immature, irresponsible and offensive. But at the end of the day I dont care about Naniwas character - I care about his SC2 skills and to hell with all those *add silly girly voice* "I just want to show great games to the fans <3<3<3<3" idiots. Thats basically a lie - they first and foremost want to win and beat their opponents. And Im sure that ANYBODY will likely execute the most boring and unexciting strategy as long as it guarantees them a GSL win any day over showing exciting matches and dropping out early. | ||
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H1STORY
Canada35 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:02 loladin wrote: I'm still of the opinion that what GOM did is completely wrong. 1. The tournament setup was faulty. 2. Naniwa was wrong. 3. Naniwa apologised for his actions. 4. GOM should have apologised for their tourment setup. 5. GOM, Quantic and Naniwa should have worked out their differences behind the scenes and come to some sort of understanding, perhaps a fine, or an official warning, or something like that. Revoking the Code S Invite (or Seed as 99% of the Community thought it was) is going taking the punishment way, way beyond the "crime". I agree with Loladin what GOM did was wrong. 1. Made Naniwa play a match when both players were 0-3. 2. Naniwa shouldnt have to play a match when he wouldn't advance anyways. 3. GOM should think what they would do to their korean players if one did the same as what NaNiwa did. 4. Quantic should of told GOM they didnt want NaNiwa to play a useless game against NesTea that wouldnt mean anything. And what GOM did to the member of the Quantic SC2 team was beyond stupid. Revoking Naniwa's Code S Invite. They just lost one of the best forgeiners in the SC2 League for Code S because of a stupid game that shouldnt of been played. I think that 85% of the competitive SC2 Community agrees that revoking Naniwa's Code S Invite for the first season was way to big of a punishment. The reason i think it was stupid is because Naniwa is one of the top rated SC2 players in the world and he has many big titles. GOM should take responsibility for what Naniwa did as a clue that they shouldn't make players that are already 0-3 in their series matches to play a show match when they are already eliminated anyways. An example of a match today between MVP vs MMA was pretty much an example of throwing a game in game 1 MMA vs MVP was an amazing match. Then in game 2-3 MVP lost to the same marine rush both games without a fight which i think was him throwing a game in a less manner way then Naniwa did and i guarantee GOM wont do anything. | ||
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Shai
Canada806 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:09 CingCoCo wrote: I think the hole thing is way overblown. I dont even understand in the slightest why he had to play the game anyways for reasons which have been mentioned over and over in this thread. Because GOM pays you prize money based on their advertisements, and they need games played to show ads. If a player doesn't like it, they don't have to accept the prize money. On December 15 2011 21:09 CingCoCo wrote: Regarding Naniwas behavior Id like to say he seems to be immature, irresponsible and offensive. But at the end of the day I dont care about Naniwas character - I care about his SC2 skills and to hell with all those *add silly girly voice* "I just want to show great games to the fans <3<3<3<3" idiots. Thats basically a lie - they first and foremost want to win and beat their opponents. And Im sure that ANYBODY will likely execute the most boring and unexciting strategy as long as it guarantees them a GSL win any day over showing exciting matches and dropping out early. Why would a tournament want to take you on if you exhibit this level of emotional instability? They invest in you being in the league. They were rightfully upset when Idra quit Code S after going through group selection. Is it his right to play and not play when he chooses to? Yes. But GOM doesn't have to pay you if you don't play by the rules - that's their right. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:09 CingCoCo wrote: Matter of fact I felt like GOM is stealing my time in forcing me to wait for that match. Just don't watch it until it comes up, you can't blame a program for stealing time. On December 15 2011 21:09 CingCoCo wrote: Also mind anybody telling me if there EVER was a realy good match where nothing was at stake? I certainly cant. Abosolutely, spend 1 hour watching a pro stream in GM and you'll definitely see exiting games. On December 15 2011 21:09 CingCoCo wrote: Further I actually thought it was hilarious to just probe rush to throw the game. Of course this will only work once because everybody from then on will be credited as lazy - irresponsible - or whatever for throwing a game. He boxed workers and A-moved, nothing interesting or funny about that. He was just being a bitch towards GOM. On December 15 2011 21:09 CingCoCo wrote: And because he dumped a completely non sense game hes now being thrown out of Code S? And they act like he wasnt even seeded? As far as I remember there has been no excuse to the rule that MLG winner takes a Code S spot and if the winner already got one the 2nd place finisher will take it (and so on) so I dont realy understand their argument of him just being considered for a Code S spot. Well, you're wrong. That's how it worked before, but not in providence. This is a fact, no need to discuss it. On December 15 2011 21:09 CingCoCo wrote: They just used their power harshly to make a "if u dont follow our rules youre f**ked" statement. Can you blame them? GSL is the biggest tournament in SC2, they have to demand respect. | ||
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H1STORY
Canada35 Posts
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H1STORY
Canada35 Posts
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
3. GOM should think what they would do to their korean players if one did the same as what NaNiwa did. They would do the same or worse. Honestly, where do people get off saying it was because he was a foreigner? All you need to do is look at the history - Coca, Rain, Choya or every example of Kespa style punishment. | ||
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H1STORY
Canada35 Posts
Poll: Do you think what GOM did to Naniwa was right or wrong Bad Mannered (19) Extremely smart (8) (5) (4) Yes (2) No (0) (0) (0) 38 total votes Your vote: Do you think what GOM did to Naniwa was right or wrong (Vote): Yes | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:19 H1STORY wrote: Okay tobber think about it they made him play a game of which was useless why would he try i would of done same thing if i was him. but them revoking his Code S Invite went to far Who cares if it's useless? If your boss gives you a job, do you just ignore it because YOU think it's useless? GOM owns the tournament, they decide which games are useless, Naniwa has no say in it. | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:21 H1STORY wrote: Poll: Do you think what GOM did to Naniwa was right or wrong Bad Mannered (19) Extremely smart (8) (5) (4) Yes (2) No (0) (0) (0) 38 total votes Your vote: Do you think what GOM did to Naniwa was right or wrong (Vote): Yes Hey dude, don't know if you realise it, there's a poll on the front page. It has 10 000 votes and counting. I predict you get less than 10% of that here. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Xacalite
Germany533 Posts
Remember that GSL seasons are now two months, that means not competing in GSL january is two months no NaNiWa in GSL. Gets me a little sad. | ||
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guch
Sweden18 Posts
Naniwa simply did not understand that to represent sponsors for the big bucks is way more important than he'll ever be, sadly. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:12 H1STORY wrote: An example of a match today between MVP vs MMA was pretty much an example of throwing a game in game 1 MMA vs MVP was an amazing match. Then in game 2-3 MVP lost to the same marine rush both games without a fight which i think was him throwing a game in a less manner way then Naniwa did and i guarantee GOM wont do anything. It's really time clueless people like you get banned for throwing away random (match fixing?) accusations without any proof. Besides, game 3 was not a Marine/SCV all-in at all... Facepalm. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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