EPTyeah indeed but i m glad i read it either way
nice read gj
E-Racism (Protoss, Terran, Zerg) - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
yeah indeed but i m glad i read it either way nice read gj | ||
|
Aegeis
United States1619 Posts
| ||
|
Klaas
Slovenia86 Posts
| ||
|
zoLo
United States5896 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Starcraft 2 != eSports. It sounds a lot like you want to grow Starcraft 2, more than anything to do with eSports. You talk about civility in discussion, and avoiding making snide remarks that may reflect badly on the community, and alienate outsiders, but then end your post with a cheap shot at HoN. I'm not saying I disagree with the bulk of your post, but if you, and others, really want to grow eSports as whole, then we all need to stop taking shots at other games. eSports is a collection of games, all from different genres, Starcraft 2 does not encompass all of eSports. Whenever there's posts about stuff like, "Lol, AoS games have such terrible communities, and take no skill", "FPS are just point and click", "Fighting games are just button-mashing", then we further the rift between SC2, and even RTS as a whole, with other genres of games which make up "eSports". If we really want to foster an understanding for eSports, and grow it as a whole, then before cutting out whine about races and the game itself, we need to stop the hate between genres. I don't think a gamer is going to come to the community and be put off because people are arguing about races, which has equivalents in all genres, but are more likely to be put off because the community is constantly putting down other games from which they might have come, which alienates them from the community. For a prime example of this, just look at the perceived animosity between even the SC2 and BW forums on TL. New-comers to BW from SC2 are sometimes alienated by perceived "elitism", and and old BW players looking at SC2 are put off by the hate generated from this alienation. I agree with what you said about eSports. In order for it to grow, we need to support other eSports titles as well, but it depends on the game. Each eSport game has a different set of skills than other games obviously. People can praise and support SC BW and SC2 all they want, but at the end of the day, games like Counter-Strike, Quake, SF4, etc requires a lot of skill at a high level too. FPS games are more than just running around and getting kills. Counter-Strike is all about teamwork, angles, and preparation. Having good aim is very important, but you can't have a team full of fraggers because you guys will fail. This is the same for all team based games except in games like DotA or HoN, a player can carry the team, which is why some heroes as known as a carry. I also hate the stereotype that all fighting games is about button mashing, which is ridiculous. Yeah, you maybe a button masher in order to get a lucky combo and damage input, but try doing that against a good player and see what happens. The people that talk down on fighting games are the ones that bitch at Capcom for coming out with different version of SF4 and end up playing for a couple of days or weeks and stop playing because they just don't want to practice. | ||
|
gTank
Austria2601 Posts
Sometimes i feel like ppl have to defend playing X instead of talking about balance in normal constructive way. Also, i dont get the HoN pun oO | ||
|
Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On September 23 2011 03:00 Klaas wrote: The worst I've ever played with are Turks, I wonder how they measure up against Brazilians. They don't. 5 times World Cup champs. Sorry. | ||
|
Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
Use ur enter key a few times while typing. It makes it readable. edit: wow I just read it, this thread can only go one way | ||
|
vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
One thing I like about balance whine with the racial bias we see on these forums is that it really helps to clue you in on the mind sets and weaknesses of the races. It also gives me a good laugh at times. Personally, I would be very enbarassed if I whined cloudy about racial balance and then reread my post at a later date so I really hope it never happens. | ||
|
Lingy
England201 Posts
| ||
|
Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
| ||
|
Charger
United States2405 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:56 TheDougler wrote: Funny how a thread about "e-racism" turned into a thread about actual racism... I don't know whether to laugh or cry. | ||
vGl-CoW
Belgium8305 Posts
| ||
|
Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On September 23 2011 03:03 zoLo wrote: I agree with what you said about eSports. In order for it to grow, we need to support other eSports titles as well, but it depends on the game. Each eSport game has a different set of skills than other games obviously. People can praise and support SC BW and SC2 all they want, but at the end of the day, games like Counter-Strike, Quake, SF4, etc requires a lot of skill at a high level too. FPS games are more than just running around and getting kills. Counter-Strike is all about teamwork, angles, and preparation. Having good aim is very important, but you can't have a team full of fraggers because you guys will fail. This is the same for all team based games except in games like DotA or HoN, a player can carry the team, which is why some heroes as known as a carry. I also hate the stereotype that all fighting games is about button mashing, which is ridiculous. Yeah, you maybe a button masher in order to get a lucky combo and damage input, but try doing that against a good player and see what happens. The people that talk down on fighting games are the ones that bitch at Capcom for coming out with different version of SF4 and end up playing for a couple of days or weeks and stop playing because they just don't want to practice. Mhmm, I know this. I'm not sure if you were addressing me or not, but "Lol, AoS games have such terrible communities, and take no skill", "FPS are just point and click", "Fighting games are just button-mashing" Was me mimicking responses I often see in the forums. Of course some games are better eSports than others, but that doesn't mean we need to tear apart other games because they aren't as suited to being eSports. It's possible to say something positive about one thing, without saying something negative about another, which is part of my point. On September 23 2011 03:10 vaderseven wrote: Its really sad how alot of you guys took a thread that was about racial balance bias flavoring alot of posts (Terran op / infestors are BS / deathball takes no skill) and made it about racism vs real people and being elitist about what games are the best esports. What the heck? Did you guys even read the OP? One thing I like about balance whine with the racial bias we see on these forums is that it really helps to clue you in on the mind sets and weaknesses of the races. It also gives me a good laugh at times. Personally, I would be very enbarassed if I whined cloudy about racial balance and then reread my post at a later date so I really hope it never happens. The OP was talking about eSports, which is more than just SC2. If he wants to only talk about SC2, then he shouldn't talk about eSports as a whole. He talks about fostering understanding between people, and being an open and pleasant community, to grow eSports, but then ends his post with a shot at HoN. His post is somewhat contradictory, so I pointed it out, as it may be something many people don't realize they do. | ||
|
azr
Norway144 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:32 mordk wrote: In general, people from Chile are the worst all round. They treat americans like crap, and firmly believe anyone who speaks english is american, and treat them like crap as well. I don't care if the player is good or bad, the way Chilean folk treat other gamers is just... wrong sometimes. It really makes me wonder why some people idolize them so much, they're usually truly horrible to play with. Good thing I can play SC2 with my friends and don't have to listen to the trolls. Note: This is about the whole american thing. I really don't understand how it got derailed though. Opinions | ||
|
vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
| ||
|
Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On September 23 2011 02:59 Aegeis wrote: Even though I absolutely love E-sports, I don't take it that seriously so I find E-racism really fun. It's just fun to me to say "blah blah X and X are a bullshit OP unit", even though it that isn't my opinion. The problem is that some people take it really fucking seriously. During the period when toss was incredibly dominant PvZ, it wasn't uncommon for LR threads to have a few dozen pages worth of posts wishing that the player would die, and it still happens. I love the game as much as anyone else here, but that is just stupid. | ||
|
Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
I think the SC racism is in part due to WoW influence. Long before SC2 came out, I noticed people who played Horde or Alliance hated each other. It was a bit comical, until I realized it was usually more serious than not. The problem was that it was two fictional groups. In SC2 at least, I see it more as someone not liking another race because of stupid, gimmicky or powerful things, than it has to do with someone just playing another race. However, it is sometimes aroused by that "OH he's that other faction so I don't like him" mentality I've seen a bit in WoW, but I think this thing is not as profound as the former. it wasn't uncommon for LR threads to have a few dozen pages worth of posts wishing that the player would die Are you serious? That's whacky. Why is such extremism more often than not coming from Zerg players? I blame Idra's and Destiny's influence. | ||
|
KangaRuthless
United States304 Posts
I lol when I play against Russians or Polacks on EU (I can't read that!!!) I'm fluent in Spanish and know some French, so Portuguese isn't the hardest language to figure out, and is one of those languages where it's easier to read than hear. Still, if you started talking to me in Portuguese, I'll try talking back in Spanish. In regards to OP, I am friends with players of all races. I especially like practicing with Protoss because it's the one race I can't entirely predict, strangely enough. My scouting and timings are just so horrible in that match up I end up losing games I should have won. I also get upset when I leave myself too susceptible to cheese, like Cannons on maps where Protoss will obviously FFE but Cannon you when you 15 H. tl;dr I generally say stuff like "Terran OP" or "Protoss is lame" in a joking manner. If I see someone else say something along those lines in a non-joking manner, I assume they are either frustrated with a match up or a complete jackass. | ||
|
Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
If we were all holding hands together, what would there be to discuss ? We are human, we want to laugh or despair and the SC2 race is one of quite important distinctions in this community. You instantly know you have something in common or what to fight for. | ||
|
Stanlot
United States5742 Posts
Anyway, I get that as a community we should stop trying to take away from others' victories by claiming their race is OP or whatever but there comes a time when people stop proclaiming imbalance because of temporary rage and start because there is seriously something wrong with the match up balance. I was listening to SotG 50 when they were talking about their BW histories and Tyler brought up the Bisu v SaviOr series where Bisu's DT/Corsair style brought about a new protoss metagame shift and the ZvP win percentage went from, I think 56% to 44%? I don't remember the numbers exactly but hearing that something as little as 4-6% off from 50/50 was game-changing was mind-boggling to me because we are currently suffering a sub-30% win rate for protoss in Korea. Back on to directly addressing your issue, I do agree that crying OP isn't the way our community should react when a race other than ours starts winning but things are seriously off-kilter if a race is losing 70% of their matches on a top professional level. At that point, people can't help but complain, even if its alienating other people because it truly gets frustrating as a player and even as a spectator. | ||
| ||
