E-Racism (Protoss, Terran, Zerg) - Page 5

On September 23 2011 05:33 ReignFayth wrote:
all 3 races have different mechanic, one is not harder than another, just different

On September 23 2011 05:38 FMJ wrote:

How can you make this statement? Nobody has ever done an extensive, fair case-study of quantitative difficulty of each race. As such, I can't say that X race is more difficult than Y race; and you can't say that they are equally difficult. However, I can say that given 3 *very distinct* mechanics, they are *hugely* more likely to have variance in difficulty (even if only slightly) than to be exactly equal.

On September 23 2011 05:39 Soulriser wrote:


i dont think you understood this post you quoted. he didnt say that one was harder then the other specifically, he just said they were different.

On September 23 2011 05:42 FMJ wrote:

I don't think you understood my post actually... read it again a few more times and see if it makes sense.

Actually, let me explain what I said.

He said, they are different, but "equally difficult".

I said, I argue, since there is no test of difficulty, that you cannot claim they are "equally difficult". However, I concede that I cannot claim that they are "differently difficult" (even though that is what I am "implying").

However, I continue, given probability, they are much more likely to be "differently difficult", which is opposite of what he said, which was that they are "equally difficult".

In summation, he says they are "different, but equal", and I say they are "different, and unequal".

Does that make sense?

On September 23 2011 02:11 redemption289 wrote:
Over the past year, SC2 has become a major part of my life. Both the community and the competitive aspects, such as laddering and small tournaments, have made my life more enjoyable. That said, there are aspects of SC2 that I could live without. The most prominent among these being the over-reaction and hypersensitivity that is always present during threads discussing race balance issues. The E-racism that the title alludes to is thankfully not real life racism. It is the belittling and blatant ad hominems that accompany nearly every patch/balance/strategy post. Let me be the first to admit that I have posted my fair share of inflammatory comments. For those, I apologize. This post is as much a reminder for me as for everyone else. That TL and other sites can build a successful community, ripe with jokes, pro-match posts, and memes, is great. It really speaks to the evolution of and market for e-sports. However, race selection is a sensitive issue. It is frustrating to have one's skill as an SC2 player slighted simply because they play Protoss, or Terran, or Zerg. The knee-jerk reaction of self-defense and confrontation is understandable, but we should train ourselves to put aside these biases (as best we can) when discussing balance or strategies. It is doubtful that people pick their races because of the inherent bias. Most often, people choose a race and stick with that race because it is what they've learned. It has nothing to do with wanting to "cheat" by winning all of their games in easy-mode. This is something that all of us need to keep in mind. Congratulations to those of you who have managed to stay civil in your posts. You're a better woman/man than I. Simply put, it is a hard thing to do. However, as a developing community, we should be careful to promote and maintain good sportsmanship. This means stifling ad hominem attacks, carefully phrasing our posts so as to legitimately not offend --it is one thing to say no offense and a completely different thing to mean it--, and most importantly learn to be critical of our own race's strengths and weaknesses. Truth be told, every race has some unit that is overpowered and other units that are underpowered. Countless posts and people have whined about an underpowered unit while simultaneously attacking others who post well-warranted and articulate opinions about the units that are overpowered. Certainly there should be a forum for arguing and discussing balance issues, but it ought to be done in a much more civil manner. Let's not sugar coat things, the people who have posted such malicious posts should be ashamed. Often, good people create these posts in a moment of weakness, but that does not excuse the act of ostracizing another member of the community.

Why is this important? As an E-sports community, we should be quick to welcome and attract new members, not cast-out people with evolving views of balance. We should also take care to represent ourselves as mature human beings rather than petty young adults or children. If we expect E-sports to grow, then we should all be willing to do our part to make it as accessible and professional as possible. Snide comments about an individual or a race that people choose to play ultimately damages the credibility of the community as a whole. Additionally, such insults only breed more animosity. SC2 is unique because it can foster camaraderie between people and nations around the world. There are other video games that have abhorrent communities surrounding them. Let’s make a conscious effort to keep the SC2 community as welcoming and open as possible. After all, none of us want to end up like HoN players

On September 23 2011 05:54 razy wrote:


according to broodwar this should wear out with time.

On September 23 2011 06:01 phyren wrote:
I've taken up fencing in recent yeas. Fencing as a sport is divided into 3 weapons, and generally an individual competitor will only practice one of them. There is a fun rivalry between the three and people will joke about the skills absent from one or required to a greater degree in another. We will even joke about the type of personalities drawn to one or the other. After all that, there is no realy enmity. No one truly gets angry at you based on what weapon you practice or if you choose to switch to another.

The point is, some sense of rivalry is nice for strengthening the community. Having race specific help me threads is fun and gives people a sense of belonging to a specific subgroup. It's nice to know other people are having difficulties in a match up just as you are.

The problem, as with everything, comes when people take it too far. They get too bitter over perceived imbalances or silly racial divides. In short, some people just need to tone it down a bit.

On September 23 2011 05:54 razy wrote:


according to broodwar this should wear out with time.

On September 23 2011 05:38 FMJ wrote:

How can you make this statement? Nobody has ever done an extensive, fair case-study of quantitative difficulty of each race. As such, I can't say that X race is more difficult than Y race; and you can't say that they are equally difficult. However, I can say that given 3 *very distinct* mechanics, they are *hugely* more likely to have variance in difficulty (even if only slightly) than to be exactly equal.

Sure, you can take a look at an elementary class of kids and say, "they're all different, but special in their own way." And that cliche has merits to it. But face the facts - some were endowed, either naturally or through environment, to just be more successful than others, and it's naive to just say "oh yeah, everyone is equal".

On September 23 2011 02:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Starcraft 2 != eSports.

It sounds a lot like you want to grow Starcraft 2, more than anything to do with eSports. You talk about civility in discussion, and avoiding making snide remarks that may reflect badly on the community, and alienate outsiders, but then end your post with a cheap shot at HoN.

I'm not saying I disagree with the bulk of your post, but if you, and others, really want to grow eSports as whole, then we all need to stop taking shots at other games. eSports is a collection of games, all from different genres, Starcraft 2 does not encompass all of eSports. Whenever there's posts about stuff like, "Lol, AoS games have such terrible communities, and take no skill", "FPS are just point and click", "Fighting games are just button-mashing", then we further the rift between SC2, and even RTS as a whole, with other genres of games which make up "eSports".

If we really want to foster an understanding for eSports, and grow it as a whole, then before cutting out whine about races and the game itself, we need to stop the hate between genres. I don't think a gamer is going to come to the community and be put off because people are arguing about races, which has equivalents in all genres, but are more likely to be put off because the community is constantly putting down other games from which they might have come, which alienates them from the community.

For a prime example of this, just look at the perceived animosity between even the SC2 and BW forums on TL. New-comers to BW from SC2 are sometimes alienated by perceived "elitism", and and old BW players looking at SC2 are put off by the hate generated from this alienation.

On September 23 2011 05:38 FMJ wrote:

How can you make this statement? Nobody has ever done an extensive, fair case-study of quantitative difficulty of each race. As such, I can't say that X race is more difficult than Y race; and you can't say that they are equally difficult. However, I can say that given 3 *very distinct* mechanics, they are *hugely* more likely to have variance in difficulty (even if only slightly) than to be exactly equal.

Sure, you can take a look at an elementary class of kids and say, "they're all different, but special in their own way." And that cliche has merits to it. But face the facts - some were endowed, either naturally or through environment, to just be more successful than others, and it's naive to just say "oh yeah, everyone is equal".

On September 23 2011 07:59 redemption289 wrote:


Fair, sorry. I didn't mean for the comment to actually be malicious. I had hoped that the smiley face at the end would indicate that. I play HoN... was just trying to lighten the mood.