|
On September 23 2011 03:46 Stanlot wrote: I seriously busted a gut reading through the entire first page because we have gotten sooo off topic, it's ridiculous.
Anyway, I get that as a community we should stop trying to take away from others' victories by claiming their race is OP or whatever but there comes a time when people stop proclaiming imbalance because of temporary rage and start because there is seriously something wrong with the match up balance.
I was listening to SotG 50 when they were talking about their BW histories and Tyler brought up the Bisu v SaviOr series where Bisu's DT/Corsair style brought about a new protoss metagame shift and the ZvP win percentage went from, I think 56% to 44%? I don't remember the numbers exactly but hearing that something as little as 4-6% off from 50/50 was game-changing was mind-boggling to me because we are currently suffering a sub-30% win rate for protoss in Korea. Back on to directly addressing your issue, I do agree that crying OP isn't the way our community should react when a race other than ours starts winning but things are seriously off-kilter if a race is losing 70% of their matches on a top professional level. At that point, people can't help but complain, even if its alienating other people because it truly gets frustrating as a player and even as a spectator.
I wonder where you get your numbers from, link? Just curious, no bad feelings about it.
And this actually doesnt has anything to do with the topic.
|
This is very true and we should remain vigilant.
|
HUEUHEHUEHUEHUEHUE I REPORT YOU
Really though people like rooting for people they feel they can identify with. Many people identify with what idra says about other races so they root for zerg manically. Same with other races and whatnot. It is what it is.
|
On September 23 2011 03:50 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 03:46 Stanlot wrote: I seriously busted a gut reading through the entire first page because we have gotten sooo off topic, it's ridiculous.
Anyway, I get that as a community we should stop trying to take away from others' victories by claiming their race is OP or whatever but there comes a time when people stop proclaiming imbalance because of temporary rage and start because there is seriously something wrong with the match up balance.
I was listening to SotG 50 when they were talking about their BW histories and Tyler brought up the Bisu v SaviOr series where Bisu's DT/Corsair style brought about a new protoss metagame shift and the ZvP win percentage went from, I think 56% to 44%? I don't remember the numbers exactly but hearing that something as little as 4-6% off from 50/50 was game-changing was mind-boggling to me because we are currently suffering a sub-30% win rate for protoss in Korea. Back on to directly addressing your issue, I do agree that crying OP isn't the way our community should react when a race other than ours starts winning but things are seriously off-kilter if a race is losing 70% of their matches on a top professional level. At that point, people can't help but complain, even if its alienating other people because it truly gets frustrating as a player and even as a spectator. I wonder where you get your numbers from, link? Just curious, no bad feelings about it. And this actually doesnt has anything to do with the topic. Doesn't it? I assumed the overarching reason for this post is because of the anti-terran sentiments most protoss players are expressing at the moment. Not saying that this post is solely motivated by the PvT match up but that many players across all races blame their losses on the fact that their opponent played a race that they believe to be overpowered. It's just that the PvT match up is the current top reason for the race bashing.
As for the figures I posted, they were Day[9]'s words verbatim. Tyler said it was closer to 40% PvZ at first but Day[9] stated specific numbers and no one cared to correct him so I assumed he was at least close.
|
On September 23 2011 02:26 k10forgotten wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 02:15 Mordiford wrote:On September 23 2011 02:11 redemption289 wrote:Over the past year, SC2 has become a major part of my life. Both the community and the competitive aspects, such as laddering and small tournaments, have made my life more enjoyable. That said, there are aspects of SC2 that I could live without. The most prominent among these being the over-reaction and hypersensitivity that is always present during threads discussing race balance issues. The E-racism that the title alludes to is thankfully not real life racism. It is the belittling and blatant ad hominems that accompany nearly every patch/balance/strategy post. Let me be the first to admit that I have posted my fair share of inflammatory comments. For those, I apologize. This post is as much a reminder for me as for everyone else. That TL and other sites can build a successful community, ripe with jokes, pro-match posts, and memes, is great. It really speaks to the evolution of and market for e-sports. However, race selection is a sensitive issue. It is frustrating to have one's skill as an SC2 player slighted simply because they play Protoss, or Terran, or Zerg. The knee-jerk reaction of self-defense and confrontation is understandable, but we should train ourselves to put aside these biases (as best we can) when discussing balance or strategies. It is doubtful that people pick their races because of the inherent bias. Most often, people choose a race and stick with that race because it is what they've learned. It has nothing to do with wanting to "cheat" by winning all of their games in easy-mode. This is something that all of us need to keep in mind. Congratulations to those of you who have managed to stay civil in your posts. You're a better woman/man than I. Simply put, it is a hard thing to do. However, as a developing community, we should be careful to promote and maintain good sportsmanship. This means stifling ad hominem attacks, carefully phrasing our posts so as to legitimately not offend --it is one thing to say no offense and a completely different thing to mean it--, and most importantly learn to be critical of our own race's strengths and weaknesses. Truth be told, every race has some unit that is overpowered and other units that are underpowered. Countless posts and people have whined about an underpowered unit while simultaneously attacking others who post well-warranted and articulate opinions about the units that are overpowered. Certainly there should be a forum for arguing and discussing balance issues, but it ought to be done in a much more civil manner. Let's not sugar coat things, the people who have posted such malicious posts should be ashamed. Often, good people create these posts in a moment of weakness, but that does not excuse the act of ostracizing another member of the community. Why is this important? As an E-sports community, we should be quick to welcome and attract new members, not cast-out people with evolving views of balance. We should also take care to represent ourselves as mature human beings rather than petty young adults or children. If we expect E-sports to grow, then we should all be willing to do our part to make it as accessible and professional as possible. Snide comments about an individual or a race that people choose to play ultimately damages the credibility of the community as a whole. Additionally, such insults only breed more animosity. SC2 is unique because it can foster camaraderie between people and nations around the world. There are other video games that have abhorrent communities surrounding them. Let’s make a conscious effort to keep the SC2 community as welcoming and open as possible. After all, none of us want to end up like HoN players  In my experience that hatred comes from being unable to communicate with people who don't speak the same language. Communication is integral to that game. Also, Brazilians... What about them?
Rofl should of left the brazilians out of it.
Could of escaped some derailing there ^^;;
On topic though, I don't take "e-racism" like that very seriously, and I don't think most people do. It's either banter or just silly balance whining.
|
I'm not trying to be mean, but isn't this just stating the obvious..? Though now that I think about it it's kind of sad that is actually an issue on TL, rather than a nuisance.
|
tldr
protoss plays stop whining xD
jkdontbanplz
|
It's funny how predictable human behavior is. Put people into different groups, and they will automatically start to discriminate against the other groups. How you choose those groups initially is almost irrelevant. You see it in sports, you see it with race, you see it with nationality.
I always find it funny to see the parallels between real life racism and racism in SC2. Without even thinking, people construct stereotypes about the other groups based on a small number of selectively sampled events. However, their own group is resistant to the same stereotyping. Here's a pearl I noted down from the forums a while ago:
QED, whiners are generally Zergs, with maybe the occasional Protoss that may face a very unorthodox Terran. The Zerg community also has a long and decorated history of whining, unfortunately.
Of course, it doesn't go for everybody. It is possibly to override these basic instincts just as it is possible to override other primitive behaviors, but weaker minds don't seem to be capable of it.
|
On September 23 2011 02:42 Kevan wrote:OP, use your enter key a little bit more, I hate reading walls of text.  Paragraphs are enjoyable.
|
The stigmas and argumentation of and about the races is an integral part of the game community.
The arguments add dimension to the game. Without these intriguing characteristics, the e-sports community would be much less interesting to follow.
There are definitely pros and cons of each race, but the fiery argument and discussion in the community is truly necessary to allow for an insightful evaluation and creativity.
|
On September 23 2011 04:03 marttorn wrote: On topic though, I don't take "e-racism" like that very seriously, and I don't think most people do. It's either banter or just silly balance whining.
It's more than just "silly" when it screws up forum/community experience for everybody, everywhere. You can't go through two threads in a row without seeing some sarcastic, snide or passive-aggressive remark (usually factually incorrect as well) about this or that race or this or that player playing that race.
Too much is too much, more bans are required.
|
I think the best plan is just to ignore it. Issues never disappear if you keep giving them attention. That's the greatest lesson the internet has to teach.
|
If i would get a dollar each time i was being called "retard" "shit" "scrub" or they wished for me to get aids or others , i would have been millioner since months ago
|
On September 23 2011 04:30 branflakes14 wrote: I think the best plan is just to ignore it. Issues never disappear if you keep giving them attention. That's the greatest lesson the internet has to teach.
It's more like "issues never disappear, period".
I still think more bans will make it better. Just ban more people and for longer. As in JangBi storm bans.
|
On September 23 2011 04:29 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 04:03 marttorn wrote: On topic though, I don't take "e-racism" like that very seriously, and I don't think most people do. It's either banter or just silly balance whining. It's more than just "silly" when it screws up forum/community experience for everybody, everywhere. You can't go through two threads in a row without seeing some sarcastic, snide or passive-aggressive remark (usually factually incorrect as well) about this or that race or this or that player playing that race. Too much is too much, more bans are required.
Don't know if people will actually heed the signs.
|
there really should be much more constructive thoughts instead of whine after whine after whine whenever someone sees something they don't like. Its quite sad that this community has become this whine fest
|
God damn Brazilians, first you ruin my language and now my reputation in the gaming community!
|
my friends use a lot of racial epitaphs in general and in acknowledging me and i don't think thats racism (more like reclaimed words). I've been a victim of actual racism as a kid though soo i think rude words are kind of meaningless
that said why would saying an imaginary race is unbalanced is racism :S thats like making light of actual racism
|
I hate whatever race I'm not playing with every fiber of my being, it was the same in wow, playing horde, hate the alliance, they're all whiny little kids. Play alliance, hate the horde, they're all a bunch of gankers.
Its fun to throw yourself into role-playing, and probably healthy to direct perfectly natural aggression into something where no one actually gets hurt, so yes, I am an e-racist.
I think it is beyond silly to take it to the point that many do where you blame losses solely on a race being op, maybe I'm wrong but I find it hard to believe that very many games are won solely due to a balance issue.
|
In non-esports there are teams you love and teams you hate. Think about how many people love/hate the Yankees, yet don't even really care that much about baseball in general. I think having a favorite race and hating the other 2 is great for esports.
Oh yeah I think I'm supposed to mention Brazil.
|
|
|
|