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Over the past year, SC2 has become a major part of my life. Both the community and the competitive aspects, such as laddering and small tournaments, have made my life more enjoyable. That said, there are aspects of SC2 that I could live without. The most prominent among these being the over-reaction and hypersensitivity that is always present during threads discussing race balance issues. The E-racism that the title alludes to is thankfully not real life racism. It is the belittling and blatant ad hominems that accompany nearly every patch/balance/strategy post. Let me be the first to admit that I have posted my fair share of inflammatory comments. For those, I apologize. This post is as much a reminder for me as for everyone else. That TL and other sites can build a successful community, ripe with jokes, pro-match posts, and memes, is great. It really speaks to the evolution of and market for e-sports. However, race selection is a sensitive issue. It is frustrating to have one's skill as an SC2 player slighted simply because they play Protoss, or Terran, or Zerg. The knee-jerk reaction of self-defense and confrontation is understandable, but we should train ourselves to put aside these biases (as best we can) when discussing balance or strategies. It is doubtful that people pick their races because of the inherent bias. Most often, people choose a race and stick with that race because it is what they've learned. It has nothing to do with wanting to "cheat" by winning all of their games in easy-mode. This is something that all of us need to keep in mind. Congratulations to those of you who have managed to stay civil in your posts. You're a better woman/man than I. Simply put, it is a hard thing to do. However, as a developing community, we should be careful to promote and maintain good sportsmanship. This means stifling ad hominem attacks, carefully phrasing our posts so as to legitimately not offend --it is one thing to say no offense and a completely different thing to mean it--, and most importantly learn to be critical of our own race's strengths and weaknesses. Truth be told, every race has some unit that is overpowered and other units that are underpowered. Countless posts and people have whined about an underpowered unit while simultaneously attacking others who post well-warranted and articulate opinions about the units that are overpowered. Certainly there should be a forum for arguing and discussing balance issues, but it ought to be done in a much more civil manner. Let's not sugar coat things, the people who have posted such malicious posts should be ashamed. Often, good people create these posts in a moment of weakness, but that does not excuse the act of ostracizing another member of the community.
Why is this important? As an E-sports community, we should be quick to welcome and attract new members, not cast-out people with evolving views of balance. We should also take care to represent ourselves as mature human beings rather than petty young adults or children. If we expect E-sports to grow, then we should all be willing to do our part to make it as accessible and professional as possible. Snide comments about an individual or a race that people choose to play ultimately damages the credibility of the community as a whole. Additionally, such insults only breed more animosity. SC2 is unique because it can foster camaraderie between people and nations around the world. There are other video games that have abhorrent communities surrounding them. Let’s make a conscious effort to keep the SC2 community as welcoming and open as possible. After all, none of us want to end up like HoN players 
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On September 23 2011 02:11 redemption289 wrote:Over the past year, SC2 has become a major part of my life. Both the community and the competitive aspects, such as laddering and small tournaments, have made my life more enjoyable. That said, there are aspects of SC2 that I could live without. The most prominent among these being the over-reaction and hypersensitivity that is always present during threads discussing race balance issues. The E-racism that the title alludes to is thankfully not real life racism. It is the belittling and blatant ad hominems that accompany nearly every patch/balance/strategy post. Let me be the first to admit that I have posted my fair share of inflammatory comments. For those, I apologize. This post is as much a reminder for me as for everyone else. That TL and other sites can build a successful community, ripe with jokes, pro-match posts, and memes, is great. It really speaks to the evolution of and market for e-sports. However, race selection is a sensitive issue. It is frustrating to have one's skill as an SC2 player slighted simply because they play Protoss, or Terran, or Zerg. The knee-jerk reaction of self-defense and confrontation is understandable, but we should train ourselves to put aside these biases (as best we can) when discussing balance or strategies. It is doubtful that people pick their races because of the inherent bias. Most often, people choose a race and stick with that race because it is what they've learned. It has nothing to do with wanting to "cheat" by winning all of their games in easy-mode. This is something that all of us need to keep in mind. Congratulations to those of you who have managed to stay civil in your posts. You're a better woman/man than I. Simply put, it is a hard thing to do. However, as a developing community, we should be careful to promote and maintain good sportsmanship. This means stifling ad hominem attacks, carefully phrasing our posts so as to legitimately not offend --it is one thing to say no offense and a completely different thing to mean it--, and most importantly learn to be critical of our own race's strengths and weaknesses. Truth be told, every race has some unit that is overpowered and other units that are underpowered. Countless posts and people have whined about an underpowered unit while simultaneously attacking others who post well-warranted and articulate opinions about the units that are overpowered. Certainly there should be a forum for arguing and discussing balance issues, but it ought to be done in a much more civil manner. Let's not sugar coat things, the people who have posted such malicious posts should be ashamed. Often, good people create these posts in a moment of weakness, but that does not excuse the act of ostracizing another member of the community. Why is this important? As an E-sports community, we should be quick to welcome and attract new members, not cast-out people with evolving views of balance. We should also take care to represent ourselves as mature human beings rather than petty young adults or children. If we expect E-sports to grow, then we should all be willing to do our part to make it as accessible and professional as possible. Snide comments about an individual or a race that people choose to play ultimately damages the credibility of the community as a whole. Additionally, such insults only breed more animosity. SC2 is unique because it can foster camaraderie between people and nations around the world. There are other video games that have abhorrent communities surrounding them. Let’s make a conscious effort to keep the SC2 community as welcoming and open as possible. After all, none of us want to end up like HoN players
In my experience that hatred comes from being unable to communicate with people who don't speak the same language. Communication is integral to that game.
Also, Brazilians...
User was warned for this post
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On September 23 2011 02:15 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 02:11 redemption289 wrote:Over the past year, SC2 has become a major part of my life. Both the community and the competitive aspects, such as laddering and small tournaments, have made my life more enjoyable. That said, there are aspects of SC2 that I could live without. The most prominent among these being the over-reaction and hypersensitivity that is always present during threads discussing race balance issues. The E-racism that the title alludes to is thankfully not real life racism. It is the belittling and blatant ad hominems that accompany nearly every patch/balance/strategy post. Let me be the first to admit that I have posted my fair share of inflammatory comments. For those, I apologize. This post is as much a reminder for me as for everyone else. That TL and other sites can build a successful community, ripe with jokes, pro-match posts, and memes, is great. It really speaks to the evolution of and market for e-sports. However, race selection is a sensitive issue. It is frustrating to have one's skill as an SC2 player slighted simply because they play Protoss, or Terran, or Zerg. The knee-jerk reaction of self-defense and confrontation is understandable, but we should train ourselves to put aside these biases (as best we can) when discussing balance or strategies. It is doubtful that people pick their races because of the inherent bias. Most often, people choose a race and stick with that race because it is what they've learned. It has nothing to do with wanting to "cheat" by winning all of their games in easy-mode. This is something that all of us need to keep in mind. Congratulations to those of you who have managed to stay civil in your posts. You're a better woman/man than I. Simply put, it is a hard thing to do. However, as a developing community, we should be careful to promote and maintain good sportsmanship. This means stifling ad hominem attacks, carefully phrasing our posts so as to legitimately not offend --it is one thing to say no offense and a completely different thing to mean it--, and most importantly learn to be critical of our own race's strengths and weaknesses. Truth be told, every race has some unit that is overpowered and other units that are underpowered. Countless posts and people have whined about an underpowered unit while simultaneously attacking others who post well-warranted and articulate opinions about the units that are overpowered. Certainly there should be a forum for arguing and discussing balance issues, but it ought to be done in a much more civil manner. Let's not sugar coat things, the people who have posted such malicious posts should be ashamed. Often, good people create these posts in a moment of weakness, but that does not excuse the act of ostracizing another member of the community. Why is this important? As an E-sports community, we should be quick to welcome and attract new members, not cast-out people with evolving views of balance. We should also take care to represent ourselves as mature human beings rather than petty young adults or children. If we expect E-sports to grow, then we should all be willing to do our part to make it as accessible and professional as possible. Snide comments about an individual or a race that people choose to play ultimately damages the credibility of the community as a whole. Additionally, such insults only breed more animosity. SC2 is unique because it can foster camaraderie between people and nations around the world. There are other video games that have abhorrent communities surrounding them. Let’s make a conscious effort to keep the SC2 community as welcoming and open as possible. After all, none of us want to end up like HoN players In my experience that hatred comes from being unable to communicate with people who don't speak the same language. Communication is integral to that game. Also, Brazilians...
What about them?
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On September 23 2011 02:26 k10forgotten wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 02:15 Mordiford wrote:On September 23 2011 02:11 redemption289 wrote:Over the past year, SC2 has become a major part of my life. Both the community and the competitive aspects, such as laddering and small tournaments, have made my life more enjoyable. That said, there are aspects of SC2 that I could live without. The most prominent among these being the over-reaction and hypersensitivity that is always present during threads discussing race balance issues. The E-racism that the title alludes to is thankfully not real life racism. It is the belittling and blatant ad hominems that accompany nearly every patch/balance/strategy post. Let me be the first to admit that I have posted my fair share of inflammatory comments. For those, I apologize. This post is as much a reminder for me as for everyone else. That TL and other sites can build a successful community, ripe with jokes, pro-match posts, and memes, is great. It really speaks to the evolution of and market for e-sports. However, race selection is a sensitive issue. It is frustrating to have one's skill as an SC2 player slighted simply because they play Protoss, or Terran, or Zerg. The knee-jerk reaction of self-defense and confrontation is understandable, but we should train ourselves to put aside these biases (as best we can) when discussing balance or strategies. It is doubtful that people pick their races because of the inherent bias. Most often, people choose a race and stick with that race because it is what they've learned. It has nothing to do with wanting to "cheat" by winning all of their games in easy-mode. This is something that all of us need to keep in mind. Congratulations to those of you who have managed to stay civil in your posts. You're a better woman/man than I. Simply put, it is a hard thing to do. However, as a developing community, we should be careful to promote and maintain good sportsmanship. This means stifling ad hominem attacks, carefully phrasing our posts so as to legitimately not offend --it is one thing to say no offense and a completely different thing to mean it--, and most importantly learn to be critical of our own race's strengths and weaknesses. Truth be told, every race has some unit that is overpowered and other units that are underpowered. Countless posts and people have whined about an underpowered unit while simultaneously attacking others who post well-warranted and articulate opinions about the units that are overpowered. Certainly there should be a forum for arguing and discussing balance issues, but it ought to be done in a much more civil manner. Let's not sugar coat things, the people who have posted such malicious posts should be ashamed. Often, good people create these posts in a moment of weakness, but that does not excuse the act of ostracizing another member of the community. Why is this important? As an E-sports community, we should be quick to welcome and attract new members, not cast-out people with evolving views of balance. We should also take care to represent ourselves as mature human beings rather than petty young adults or children. If we expect E-sports to grow, then we should all be willing to do our part to make it as accessible and professional as possible. Snide comments about an individual or a race that people choose to play ultimately damages the credibility of the community as a whole. Additionally, such insults only breed more animosity. SC2 is unique because it can foster camaraderie between people and nations around the world. There are other video games that have abhorrent communities surrounding them. Let’s make a conscious effort to keep the SC2 community as welcoming and open as possible. After all, none of us want to end up like HoN players In my experience that hatred comes from being unable to communicate with people who don't speak the same language. Communication is integral to that game. Also, Brazilians... What about them?
There's a weird stigma attached to Brazilians in the MobA community in general. For some reason people don't like playing with them, firstly due to the communication issue and secondly because people think they're all bad at the game.
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On September 23 2011 02:15 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 02:11 redemption289 wrote:Over the past year, SC2 has become a major part of my life. Both the community and the competitive aspects, such as laddering and small tournaments, have made my life more enjoyable. That said, there are aspects of SC2 that I could live without. The most prominent among these being the over-reaction and hypersensitivity that is always present during threads discussing race balance issues. The E-racism that the title alludes to is thankfully not real life racism. It is the belittling and blatant ad hominems that accompany nearly every patch/balance/strategy post. Let me be the first to admit that I have posted my fair share of inflammatory comments. For those, I apologize. This post is as much a reminder for me as for everyone else. That TL and other sites can build a successful community, ripe with jokes, pro-match posts, and memes, is great. It really speaks to the evolution of and market for e-sports. However, race selection is a sensitive issue. It is frustrating to have one's skill as an SC2 player slighted simply because they play Protoss, or Terran, or Zerg. The knee-jerk reaction of self-defense and confrontation is understandable, but we should train ourselves to put aside these biases (as best we can) when discussing balance or strategies. It is doubtful that people pick their races because of the inherent bias. Most often, people choose a race and stick with that race because it is what they've learned. It has nothing to do with wanting to "cheat" by winning all of their games in easy-mode. This is something that all of us need to keep in mind. Congratulations to those of you who have managed to stay civil in your posts. You're a better woman/man than I. Simply put, it is a hard thing to do. However, as a developing community, we should be careful to promote and maintain good sportsmanship. This means stifling ad hominem attacks, carefully phrasing our posts so as to legitimately not offend --it is one thing to say no offense and a completely different thing to mean it--, and most importantly learn to be critical of our own race's strengths and weaknesses. Truth be told, every race has some unit that is overpowered and other units that are underpowered. Countless posts and people have whined about an underpowered unit while simultaneously attacking others who post well-warranted and articulate opinions about the units that are overpowered. Certainly there should be a forum for arguing and discussing balance issues, but it ought to be done in a much more civil manner. Let's not sugar coat things, the people who have posted such malicious posts should be ashamed. Often, good people create these posts in a moment of weakness, but that does not excuse the act of ostracizing another member of the community. Why is this important? As an E-sports community, we should be quick to welcome and attract new members, not cast-out people with evolving views of balance. We should also take care to represent ourselves as mature human beings rather than petty young adults or children. If we expect E-sports to grow, then we should all be willing to do our part to make it as accessible and professional as possible. Snide comments about an individual or a race that people choose to play ultimately damages the credibility of the community as a whole. Additionally, such insults only breed more animosity. SC2 is unique because it can foster camaraderie between people and nations around the world. There are other video games that have abhorrent communities surrounding them. Let’s make a conscious effort to keep the SC2 community as welcoming and open as possible. After all, none of us want to end up like HoN players In my experience that hatred comes from being unable to communicate with people who don't speak the same language. Communication is integral to that game. Also, Brazilians...
Please leave your bigotry out of these forums.
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On September 23 2011 02:28 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 02:26 k10forgotten wrote:On September 23 2011 02:15 Mordiford wrote:On September 23 2011 02:11 redemption289 wrote:Over the past year, SC2 has become a major part of my life. Both the community and the competitive aspects, such as laddering and small tournaments, have made my life more enjoyable. That said, there are aspects of SC2 that I could live without. The most prominent among these being the over-reaction and hypersensitivity that is always present during threads discussing race balance issues. The E-racism that the title alludes to is thankfully not real life racism. It is the belittling and blatant ad hominems that accompany nearly every patch/balance/strategy post. Let me be the first to admit that I have posted my fair share of inflammatory comments. For those, I apologize. This post is as much a reminder for me as for everyone else. That TL and other sites can build a successful community, ripe with jokes, pro-match posts, and memes, is great. It really speaks to the evolution of and market for e-sports. However, race selection is a sensitive issue. It is frustrating to have one's skill as an SC2 player slighted simply because they play Protoss, or Terran, or Zerg. The knee-jerk reaction of self-defense and confrontation is understandable, but we should train ourselves to put aside these biases (as best we can) when discussing balance or strategies. It is doubtful that people pick their races because of the inherent bias. Most often, people choose a race and stick with that race because it is what they've learned. It has nothing to do with wanting to "cheat" by winning all of their games in easy-mode. This is something that all of us need to keep in mind. Congratulations to those of you who have managed to stay civil in your posts. You're a better woman/man than I. Simply put, it is a hard thing to do. However, as a developing community, we should be careful to promote and maintain good sportsmanship. This means stifling ad hominem attacks, carefully phrasing our posts so as to legitimately not offend --it is one thing to say no offense and a completely different thing to mean it--, and most importantly learn to be critical of our own race's strengths and weaknesses. Truth be told, every race has some unit that is overpowered and other units that are underpowered. Countless posts and people have whined about an underpowered unit while simultaneously attacking others who post well-warranted and articulate opinions about the units that are overpowered. Certainly there should be a forum for arguing and discussing balance issues, but it ought to be done in a much more civil manner. Let's not sugar coat things, the people who have posted such malicious posts should be ashamed. Often, good people create these posts in a moment of weakness, but that does not excuse the act of ostracizing another member of the community. Why is this important? As an E-sports community, we should be quick to welcome and attract new members, not cast-out people with evolving views of balance. We should also take care to represent ourselves as mature human beings rather than petty young adults or children. If we expect E-sports to grow, then we should all be willing to do our part to make it as accessible and professional as possible. Snide comments about an individual or a race that people choose to play ultimately damages the credibility of the community as a whole. Additionally, such insults only breed more animosity. SC2 is unique because it can foster camaraderie between people and nations around the world. There are other video games that have abhorrent communities surrounding them. Let’s make a conscious effort to keep the SC2 community as welcoming and open as possible. After all, none of us want to end up like HoN players In my experience that hatred comes from being unable to communicate with people who don't speak the same language. Communication is integral to that game. Also, Brazilians... What about them? There's a weird stigma attached to Brazilians in the MobA community in general. For some reason people don't like playing with them, firstly due to the communication issue and secondly because people think they're all bad at the game.
LOL Epic Derail.
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In general, people from the US are the worst all round. They treat brazilians like crap, and firmly believe anyone who speaks spanish is brazilian, and treat them like crap as well.
I don't care if the player is good or bad, the way US folk treat other gamers is just... wrong sometimes. It really makes me wonder why some people idolize them so much, they're usually truly horrible to play with. Good thing I can play SC2 with my friends and don't have to listen to the trolls.
Note: This is about the whole brazilian thing. I really don't understand how it got derailed though.
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Fair points but I think the difficulty in being more civilized is it only takes one person to bring it all down. You can have a million people being good forums users and one person who cries loud enough that people respond and then we devolve really quick again.
Also, I think we derailed because of the OP's last statement. Contrasting us against HoN players and attaching a negative connotation to them seems to be what started the discussion on Brazilian player.
Back OT: I think it's a worthwhile thing to remind people but difficult to implement. I think it might help if people just avoided the troll bait but again, it's the internet. When there's something wrong, doesn't matter what time of day it is, or what you were doing, you've got to drop everything to prove this person wrong. Until that self-defense reflex unengages, I think we're gonna continue to suffer from the problem you discribe.
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OP, use your enter key a little bit more, I hate reading walls of text. 
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In my experience that hatred comes from being unable to communicate with people who don't speak the same language. Communication is integral to that game.
Also, Brazilians...
:/ That's sad. I think I'll stop trying to make my friends believe that not all americans are walking packages of lard eating mcdonalds and sucking at WoW and SC2.
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Are there actually brazilians who are ignorant to the fact that brazilians carry a negative stigma in online games.
Its cos they are in the same time zone as US and speak a different language. not much else to it.
there was an xkcd cartoon about it...
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On September 23 2011 02:32 mordk wrote:
In general, people from the US are the worst all round. They treat brazilians like crap, and firmly believe anyone who speaks spanish is brazilian, and treat them like crap as well.
I don't care if the player is good or bad, the way US folk treat other gamers is just... wrong sometimes. It really makes me wonder why some people idolize them so much, they're usually truly horrible to play with. Good thing I can play SC2 with my friends and don't have to listen to the trolls.
Note: This is about the whole brazilian thing. I really don't understand how it got derailed though.
Quit derailing the thread with your bullshit.
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First of all everyone please stop talking about Brazilians..?
Second of all this is more of a reiteration of some of the rules and general good principles that TL already has. This in BW would not be tolerated in some cases but SC2 is a new game with many issues that still require attention. That is why there is lots of this "e-racism" floating about on forums though imo it has died considerably since the release of the Beta. There will always be racism to an extent because people will always have opinions of other races in Starcraft and real life in general. It will eventually die down to simple race bias opinions like Protoss was in BW, considered the noob race by some as you could get easy D+ with it.
And I've played HoN while I quit SC2 for a while and it wasn't so bad, never encountered any BM players like I did in Starcraft but the money thing ruined the game like all others.
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On September 23 2011 02:32 mordk wrote:
In general, people from the US are the worst all round. They treat brazilians like crap, and firmly believe anyone who speaks spanish is brazilian, and treat them like crap as well.
I don't care if the player is good or bad, the way US folk treat other gamers is just... wrong sometimes. It really makes me wonder why some people idolize them so much, they're usually truly horrible to play with. Good thing I can play SC2 with my friends and don't have to listen to the trolls.
Note: This is about the whole brazilian thing. I really don't understand how it got derailed though.
Brazilians speak portugese not Spanish
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Honestly, whenever I play HoN, it is VERY rare to have a Brazilian on my team that is actually a player that wants to work together and doesn't rage. A lot of the Brazilian players that I have experienced are nothing but stat whores, baiters, and get pissed off whenever you do something wrong. When I say pissed off, I really mean it.
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Starcraft 2 != eSports.
It sounds a lot like you want to grow Starcraft 2, more than anything to do with eSports. You talk about civility in discussion, and avoiding making snide remarks that may reflect badly on the community, and alienate outsiders, but then end your post with a cheap shot at HoN.
I'm not saying I disagree with the bulk of your post, but if you, and others, really want to grow eSports as whole, then we all need to stop taking shots at other games. eSports is a collection of games, all from different genres, Starcraft 2 does not encompass all of eSports. Whenever there's posts about stuff like, "Lol, AoS games have such terrible communities, and take no skill", "FPS are just point and click", "Fighting games are just button-mashing", then we further the rift between SC2, and even RTS as a whole, with other genres of games which make up "eSports".
If we really want to foster an understanding for eSports, and grow it as a whole, then before cutting out whine about races and the game itself, we need to stop the hate between genres. I don't think a gamer is going to come to the community and be put off because people are arguing about races, which has equivalents in all genres, but are more likely to be put off because the community is constantly putting down other games from which they might have come, which alienates them from the community.
For a prime example of this, just look at the perceived animosity between even the SC2 and BW forums on TL. New-comers to BW from SC2 are sometimes alienated by perceived "elitism", and and old BW players looking at SC2 are put off by the hate generated from this alienation.
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Funny how a thread about "e-racism" turned into a thread about actual racism...
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On September 23 2011 02:53 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 02:32 mordk wrote:
In general, people from the US are the worst all round. They treat brazilians like crap, and firmly believe anyone who speaks spanish is brazilian, and treat them like crap as well.
I don't care if the player is good or bad, the way US folk treat other gamers is just... wrong sometimes. It really makes me wonder why some people idolize them so much, they're usually truly horrible to play with. Good thing I can play SC2 with my friends and don't have to listen to the trolls.
Note: This is about the whole brazilian thing. I really don't understand how it got derailed though. Brazilians speak portugese not Spanish
That's part of the point he is trying to reach.
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On September 23 2011 02:53 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 02:32 mordk wrote:
In general, people from the US are the worst all round. They treat brazilians like crap, and firmly believe anyone who speaks spanish is brazilian, and treat them like crap as well.
I don't care if the player is good or bad, the way US folk treat other gamers is just... wrong sometimes. It really makes me wonder why some people idolize them so much, they're usually truly horrible to play with. Good thing I can play SC2 with my friends and don't have to listen to the trolls.
Note: This is about the whole brazilian thing. I really don't understand how it got derailed though. Brazilians speak portugese not Spanish
That is part of his point.
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On September 23 2011 02:42 Kevan wrote:OP, use your enter key a little bit more, I hate reading walls of text.
yeah was kind of hard -.-
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EPT
